Really,are there that many teachers retiring in October?

ethical · 24-09-2020 10:19pm #1

According to one Teacher Union there is going to be an avalanche in October as regards teachers retiring and they are asking the Teaching Council to fast track the registrations of those that have degrees and are well down the road to getting their teacher qualifications so that the problem of teacher shortage is addressed and there is no issues when the retirements kick in.
I must admit this has sort of shocked me ,in the sense that I have not heard of that many thinking about retiring.What do you all reckon ,will many retire?

byhookorbycrook · 25-09-2020 8:59am

I personally know 4.

killbillvol2 · 25-09-2020 9:39am

Most of the normal cohort who would have retired in August are waiting for the 2% so there's that number.

Add to that the many teachers who were thinking about going in the next few years who decided to get out now when they saw the Department's excuse for a Covid plan. Everyone I know who has the years done is going.

mirrorwall14 · 25-09-2020 11:27am

I would imagine it does depend a lot on the age profile in the school. The vast majority of our staff don’t have the years done and we lost quite a few A posts to transfers.job changes in recent years. I don’t know that we will be affected at all, at least none have been mentioned yet. (School of 750 students)

thefasteriwalk · 25-09-2020 12:27pm

Our battle axe of a principal is going.

Postgrad10 · 25-09-2020 12:54pm

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Our battle axe of a principal is going.

Congratulations! I hope the replacement is better.

damemcd · 25-09-2020 12:56pm

Theres a fair few out there... good luck with the newbie...

wildwillow · 25-09-2020 1:01pm

Yea, I know a number who are close to retirement and made the decision to go now. Working out their notice to November. Just not worth the risk to their health and most are close to full pension.

deiseindublin · 25-09-2020 3:00pm

I know of a few that hadn't planned to go yet but decided to go early, everything in schools is so much more difficult with CV19, I can't say I'm surprised.

I'd say there will be lots more unexpected ones that don't announce until the last minute.

NIMAN · 25-09-2020 3:02pm

Why are folk retiring in Oct or Nov?

Surely it would make sense to retire at the end of the school year and allow time to appoint a repalcement?

John Hutton · 25-09-2020 3:05pm

I know a lot of public servants who are retiring soon. Basically it is all the people I know who have their years done.

They were the people who enjoyed their jobs and were planning on enjoying a comfortable few more years at work. This has all been upended by Covid.

I know a few more public workers who are working from home. Second that changes they will be retiring.

Why wouldn't you retire?

shane b · 25-09-2020 3:30pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why are folk retiring in Oct or Nov?

I don't know about the public sector but there are 2 guys in my company retiring in October. For them it seems to be weather related and the time changing.
One of them mentioned about the onset of winter, poor weather, getting up on dark frosty mornings and leaving work in the dark etc. They both have 45 - 60 minute drives to work.
They also can claim some tax back as they not working for the full year.

Treppen · 25-09-2020 3:49pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why are folk retiring in Oct or Nov?

Surely it would make sense to retire at the end of the school year and allow time to appoint a repalcement?

Few things.

Increment is due in October. Pension is based on final salary. Not sure how that works exactly.

Appointing a replacement isn't a teacher's problem. School might want to kill off that subject or chop the permanent post into a few part time hours. In saying that, it's courtesy to let school know if you're retiring.

Also in education it's typical with the part time/sub churn to go recruiting very close to start date.

RealJohn · 26-09-2020 4:53pm

Treppen wrote: »

Increment is due in October. Pension is based on final salary. Not sure how that works exactly.

I thought they changed that? I thought it's on your average salary these days. Am I wrong? If so, I might retire myself.

doc_17 · 26-09-2020 5:03pm

In 2003 the then PS workers voted on altering the pensions of the post 04 brigade. They have their 50% of final pay and can go after 35 years on full pension. The post 04 brigade won’t get their full pension until 68, no matter has many years service. So an extra 2% is great and of course they should take it.

If any teacher From your school is nearing Retirement and they are currently out sick, Ec levy them to be gone as well.

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-09-2020 6:12pm

RealJohn wrote: »

I thought they changed that? I thought it's on your average salary these days. Am I wrong? If so, I might retire myself.

It's final salary for those on pre2013 pension schemes.

6 retiring from my former school apparently. Four of those unexpected - going at midterm. The other two had planned to go after the October restoration. I wouldn't be surprised if others are going but haven't announced it yet. Only 1 month notice required.

doc_17 · 26-09-2020 6:56pm

Tyson Loose Slab wrote: »

It's final salary for those on pre2013 pension schemes.

6 retiring from my former school apparently. Four of those unexpected - going at midterm. The other two had planned to go after the October restoration. I wouldn't be surprised if others are going but haven't announced it yet. Only 1 month notice required.

I think you’ll find it’s pre 2004. Post 04 get 1/80th of salary x 40. But only get the old age pension when they turn 68. So if they left at 62 after 40 years they’d have about 12k per year until they turn 68.

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-09-2020 6:58pm

doc_17 wrote: »

I think you’ll find it’s pre 2004. Post 04 get 1/80th of salary x 40. But only get the old age pension when they turn 68. So if they left at 62 after 40 years they’d have about 12k per year until they turn 68.

I mean the calculation is done on final salary up to 2013 pension. The average salary calculation only applies to post-2013 pension. Yes, there is a deterioration in conditions for those on post 2004 scheme, but it is not calculated on average salary.

deiseindublin · 26-09-2020 8:30pm

It's 1995 that brought about the change in A1/D1 stamp. I started in September that year and am on A1. My friend did a bit of subbing before the summer while doing her dip and was lucky enough to stay on D1.

doc_17 · 26-09-2020 8:53pm

Tyson Loose Slab wrote: »

I mean the calculation is done on final salary up to 2013 pension. The average salary calculation only applies to post-2013 pension. Yes, there is a deterioration in conditions for those on post 2004 scheme, but it is not calculated on average salary.

I think it is. 1/80 of your salary added together for 40 years. That’s 40/80 ths and obviously the first 1/80 th is going to be less that the last one. We might be calling it different things but post 04 is sh*it compared to pre 04. How is the pension done for post 2011?

mirrorwall14 · 26-09-2020 10:38pm

doc_17 wrote: »

I think it is. 1/80 of your salary added together for 40 years. That’s 40/80 ths and obviously the first 1/80 th is going to be less that the last one. We might be calling it different things but post 04 is sh*it compared to pre 04. How is the pension done for post 2011?

Could be wrong but in simple terms my understanding is

Pre 04: awesome. Based on final salary, early retirement options and top ups until you hit retirement age

Post 04: still based on final salary but no early retirement options Unless actuarily reduces and I don’t believe there is top ups available if you do 40 years before your retirement age

Post 2011: rubbish for teachers. Based on career average so early years subbing have a massive impact on final pension. Also no Early retirement And no top ups

Scorpio22 · 26-09-2020 11:04pm

Thanks for the post, happy to hear.

KaneToad · 26-09-2020 11:08pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why are folk retiring in Oct or Nov?

Surely it would make sense to retire at the end of the school year and allow time to appoint a repalcement?

It might make more sense for the employer but not for the employee.

Scorpio22 · 26-09-2020 11:10pm

Is it just me or has anyone found the eservices/ registration with teaching council for further education is a bit neglected? It seems it is more suited for primary and post primary teachers but not F.E. teachers. A pal of mine and myself both have work experience in sectors such as care social care and early childhood care however this does not show on on our eserivices profile. I also have multiple qualifications at level 5 and 6 however these are also not listed.

Icsics · 26-09-2020 11:13pm

33 is the new 40! Anybody who clocks up 33yrs in my school is going

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 11:34am

doc_17 wrote: »

In 2003 the then PS workers voted on altering the pensions of the post 04 brigade. They have their 50% of final pay and can go after 35 years on full pension. The post 04 brigade won’t get their full pension until 68, no matter has many years service. So an extra 2% is great and of course they should take it.

If any teacher From your school is nearing Retirement and they are currently out sick, Ec levy them to be gone as well.

Incorrect. If they have 33 years served at 55, they go on 33/80 of final salary. They just have the option to go at 55 and have their pension paid out rather than waiting until 65.

doc_17 wrote: »

I think you’ll find it’s pre 2004. Post 04 get 1/80th of salary x 40. But only get the old age pension when they turn 68. So if they left at 62 after 40 years they’d have about 12k per year until they turn 68.

So do pre-2004. The only difference in Post 95 - Pre 2004 and Post 2004 - Pre 2013 is the retirement age. Pre 2004 can go from 55 on and get pension immediately based on years served. They do not get a full pension if they do not have 40 years done. Post 2004 cannot get their pension until they are 65 regardless of how many years they have done.

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 11:35am

Icsics wrote: »

33 is the new 40! Anybody who clocks up 33yrs in my school is going

Two are going in my school. Actually they are gone, principal wasn't that pleasant about it, they turned up the first day to work out the 5 weeks, and the principal told them to leave and get certs for the month. :mad:

KaneToad · 27-09-2020 11:38am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Two are going in my school. Actually they are gone, principal wasn't that pleasant about it, they turned up the first day to work out the 5 weeks, and the principal told them to leave and get certs for the month. :mad:

Principal encouraging fraud?

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 11:43am

KaneToad wrote: »

Principal encouraging fraud?

Principal being a prick.

Icsics · 27-09-2020 5:32pm

KaneToad wrote: »

Principal encouraging fraud?

She / He probably has his friends lined up for the hours, all nicely divided up to get as many bodies as possible hanging around clamouring for hours

heldel00 · 27-09-2020 5:47pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Incorrect. If they have 33 years served at 55, they go on 33/80 of final salary. They just have the option to go at 55 and have their pension paid out rather than waiting until 65.

So do pre-2004. The only difference in Post 95 - Pre 2004 and Post 2004 - Pre 2013 is the retirement age. Pre 2004 can go from 55 on and get pension immediately based on years served. They do not get a full pension if they do not have 40 years done. Post 2004 cannot get their pension until they are 65 regardless of how many years they have done.

So who has to wait until 68 to get pension?
If i wait until 65 i will have 45 years done! Jesus Christ....

So even if i decide to go at 60 i can't get any pension at all (neither DES nor state) until 65/68?
Started 2005. Was on system for the old better pre 2005 scheme but had a weekend job (fridays and saturdays) so ended up with a break in service. Could cry thinking about it.

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 6:20pm

Icsics wrote: »

She / He probably has his friends lined up for the hours, all nicely divided up to get as many bodies as possible hanging around clamouring for hours

No. The new teachers that have been hired will sub those hours for the month and then move on to their own contracts.

27-09-2020 7:10pm

heldel00 wrote: »

So who has to wait until 68 to get pension?
If i wait until 65 i will have 45 years done! Jesus Christ....

So even if i decide to go at 60 i can't get any pension at all (neither DES nor state) until 65/68?
Started 2005. Was on system for the old better pre 2005 scheme but had a weekend job (fridays and saturdays) so ended up with a break in service. Could cry thinking about it.

You should know better by know you would be protected from the punitive measures aimed towards private sector workers. It is those workers that must wait until 68 to claim the Contributory Old Age Pension; meaning their already meagre and insecure occupational pensions will have to stretch further until the claimant can avail of the COAP at 68.

In theory, public sector workers must wait until 68 for the COAP portion of their pension as well. But rather than be subjected to the realities of an increasing Pension Age inflicted on the private sector, you can avail of a public sector supplementary pension that equates to the COAP amount from your date of retirement to the COAP Eligibility Age.

doc_17 · 27-09-2020 7:59pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Incorrect. If they have 33 years served at 55, they go on 33/80 of final salary. They just have the option to go at 55 and have their pension paid out rather than waiting until 65.

So do pre-2004. The only difference in Post 95 - Pre 2004 and Post 2004 - Pre 2013 is the retirement age. Pre 2004 can go from 55 on and get pension immediately based on years served. They do not get a full pension if they do not have 40 years done. Post 2004 cannot get their pension until they are 65 regardless of how many years they have done.

I said if they have 35 years done they get they full pension? Not sure how I was incorrect? And post 04. And correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t post 04 now have to wait until they are 68 to get their full pension? Regardless of years served?

Sultan of Bling · 27-09-2020 8:21pm

doc_17 wrote:

I said if they have 35 years done they get they full pension? Not sure how I was incorrect? And post 04. And correct me if Iâ€™m wrong, but donâ€™t post 04 now have to wait until they are 68 to get their full pension? Regardless of years served?

They can retire at 65 and get their full ps pension. They will have to wait until theyre 68 to get state pension. However they will receive a supplementary pension between retirement and when they reach 68.

They can also choose to work until theyre 70 if they wish.

killbillvol2 · 27-09-2020 8:33pm

doc_17 wrote: »

I said if they have 35 years done they get they full pension? Not sure how I was incorrect?

They don't get a full pension after 35 years. Full pension is after 40 years service.

deiseindublin · 27-09-2020 10:07pm

40 years is full service. They can retire after 35 years, but will only get 35/80th of their pension, not 40/80ths or half, so 43.75% of final pay, instead of 50%. Not a bad deal, lots are going early as far as I can see.

man_no_plan · 27-09-2020 10:14pm

At 33 years I think they can have two years added for time spent in training also.

If anyone is considering retirement I would reccomend that you seek proper advice from a financial adviser. Cornmarket and PSRA specialise in public sector.

Your other FAs wont necessarily have the full picture.

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 10:36pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

At 33 years I think they can have two years added for time spent in training also.

If anyone is considering retirement I would reccomend that you seek proper advice from a financial adviser. Cornmarket and PSRA specialise in public sector.

Your other FAs wont necessarily have the full picture.

Ya, the two years are added on to get to 35, but the calculation is still done on 33 years contributions.

rainbowtrout · 27-09-2020 10:37pm

doc_17 wrote: »

I said if they have 35 years done they get they full pension? Not sure how I was incorrect? And post 04. And correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t post 04 now have to wait until they are 68 to get their full pension? Regardless of years served?

Because you can retire after 35 years if you are pre-04, but your pension is based on 35 years service not 40. You don't get a full pension without 40 years service no matter what scheme you are in.

doc_17 · 28-09-2020 3:12pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because you can retire after 35 years if you are pre-04, but your pension is based on 35 years service not 40. You don't get a full pension without 40 years service no matter what scheme you are in.

Right, got it now. Thanks for clarifying. Can I also ask one more thing?

For post 04 they actually calculate 1/80 th of your salary of each year. So I was 7 hours in my first tear and it wasn’t until year 5 I had full hours so obviously I won’t get much for the first few years. Is it the same for pre 04?

mirrorwall14 · 28-09-2020 6:12pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Right, got it now. Thanks for clarifying. Can I also ask one more thing?

For post 04 they actually calculate 1/80 th of your salary of each year. So I was 7 hours in my first tear and it wasn’t until year 5 I had full hours so obviously I won’t get much for the first few years. Is it the same for pre 04?

I don’t think it’s post 04 they do that on, isn’t that career average?

r93kaey5p2izun · 28-09-2020 7:24pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Right, got it now. Thanks for clarifying. Can I also ask one more thing?

For post 04 they actually calculate 1/80 th of your salary of each year. So I was 7 hours in my first tear and it wasn’t until year 5 I had full hours so obviously I won’t get much for the first few years. Is it the same for pre 04?

No it's 1/80 of final salary for each year of service if post 04 but pre 2013. The low hours in your early career will affect your service history (won't count as full year of service) but the low pay for those years won't be factored in to your pension calculation. For post 2013 they will be affected both by the reduced service caused by low hours, and by the lower pay, because their calculation is done on career average salary instead of final salary.

mirrorwall14 · 28-09-2020 7:34pm

Tyson Loose Slab wrote: »

No it's 1/80 of final salary for each year of service if post 04 but pre 2013. The low hours in your early career will affect your service history (won't count as full year of service) but the low pay for those years won't be factored in to your pension calculation. For post 2013 they will be affected both by the reduced service caused by low hours, and by the lower pay, because their calculation is done on career average salary instead of final salary.

Thank you. Nearly had a heart attack lol

man_no_plan · 28-09-2020 7:40pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Right, got it now. Thanks for clarifying. Can I also ask one more thing?

For post 04 they actually calculate 1/80 th of your salary of each year. So I was 7 hours in my first tear and it wasn’t until year 5 I had full hours so obviously I won’t get much for the first few years. Is it the same for pre 04?

I take it you're at it a while. The notion that short hours or many years on TWT, the precarious employment you hear so much about, are new scenarios really irks me sometimes.

The pay issue is a real issue, of course, but I think trying both together gets a response of 'sure we all started that way.

2011abc · 28-09-2020 7:48pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Not a bad deal, lots are going early as far as I can see.

Youd be mad not to .

2011abc · 28-09-2020 7:50pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

At 33 years I think they can have two years added for time spent in training also.

If anyone is considering retirement I would reccomend that you seek proper advice from a financial adviser. Cornmarket and PSRA specialise in public sector.

Your other FAs wont necessarily have the full picture.

Dont go near Cornmarket .The Maynooth crowd are the acknowledged experts and not in some dodgy sweetheart deal with union head office-or appearing on RTE exposes!

2011abc · 28-09-2020 7:51pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Incorrect. If they have 33 years served at 55, they go on 33/80 of final salary. They just have the option to go at 55 and have their pension paid out rather than waiting until 65.

So do pre-2004. The only difference in Post 95 - Pre 2004 and Post 2004 - Pre 2013 is the retirement age. Pre 2004 can go from 55 on and get pension immediately based on years served. They do not get a full pension if they do not have 40 years done. Post 2004 cannot get their pension until they are 65 regardless of how many years they have done.

Pre 95 paying class D PRSI get no state pension ,correct?Thanks

Kamu · 28-09-2020 8:04pm

2011abc wrote: »

Pre 95 paying class D PRSI get no state pension ,correct?Thanks

D stamps get no social benefits at all, including no state pension, but the calculation of their pension takes that into account.

rainbowtrout · 28-09-2020 9:01pm

2011abc wrote: »

Pre 95 paying class D PRSI get no state pension ,correct?Thanks

Ya, I don't think they come out much different financially, but it's not inclusive of state pension. I presume it goes back to the notion of a job for life in the public sector where social welfare support would not be needed.

Can't be too many teachers left in that bracket now. Last one into that scheme has to have a minimum of 25 years served. Another 8 or 9 years and there will be little or no teachers left on pre-95. In my experience very few are doing the full 40 years these days, unless they have to because of career break/other financial circumstances etc.

fed_u · 28-09-2020 10:27pm

Don't mean to derail but those of you that know of people going in your school's do you know if jobs have already been advertised? Subbing atm but obviously hoping for some contract...

Really,are there that many teachers retiring in October?

Comments