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The €3,000 per month luxury welfare apartments

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    #92
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    There is (hopefully) a tipping point coming


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    getting one of those apartments for 50 per week or whatever it is...the equivalent of winning the lotto

    Have you got a link to that figure?

    Many workers avail of social housing.


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    #94
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    smurgen wrote: »
    There's two angles to this. Government providing luxury accommodation when only adequate basic accomodation is required. Then you essentially have government paying 3.1 million in rent to a German investor fund for the next 25 years. So 78 million paid to a private fund enriching foreign investors at the expense of Irish tax payers. Why were these units not built by the council? They could be build cheaper than that 78 million and it would be an asset owned outright by the state that would last alot longer than 25 years. There has to be someone in the council or government with links to that fund or else money changed hands.

    Because FG believe in 'the market' at all costs. They'd rather pay a fund that money than build the yokes themselves for a fraction because 'socialism'. That thinking comes out in everything they do, shouldn't be a surprise.


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    #95
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,527 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Casey needs to start a new party. Of course he’s a **** communicator etc. it doesn’t really matter. Plenty of us prepared to vote for policy not personality. Totally bizarre that there isn’t even a credible centrist party to vote for here after roughly a century of ffg failure !

    What are Casey's documented policies on the housing, health, infrastructure, etc?

    I've only ever heard him ranting and raving about travelers.


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    #96
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    With the money that will be spent over the lifetime of the lease, the government can just buy the building outright.

    Instead of the stupid Divide and Conquer outrage of workers vs the least-well-off - just fucking force the government to do the above, instead - then rent part of it to workers for profit (but nowhere near current rent levels), and have a percentage of the remainder for social housing.

    The government can make an actual profit from it, instead of the current shitshow of pissing enough money away into private hands, that could have (literally) built an entire other luxury apartment complex.


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    #97
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Casey is a one-hit wonder in my view. He expressed peoples frustrations on a single issue, but there is nothing substantial there.

    SF and the other assorted lefties are an answer? You've got to be kidding me, they would expand this program if they ever got near power.

    What we need is a political party which will stand up for taxpayers and workers. This used to be FF & FG, but they've gone completely mad with spending taxpayers money as if there is an endless pot of it.

    There's no other country in the world (that I am aware of) where you can remain indefinitely on the dole, and where you will be handed luxury apartments as part of social welfare. Even if the apartments go to worthy recipients (I'm not sure who they are, but maybe there are some), this will send out a message to anyone who is trying to make a decision between trying to get a job or remaining unemployed.


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    #98
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    maybe a better look into this by a newspaper not afraid to investigate stuff inb this country is needed.

    someone is benefiting and its not just the 'poor.


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    #99
    MonkieSocks
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    There is (hopefully) a tipping point coming


    Probably Pointless at this stage











    getmecoat.gif

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



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    #100
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    KyussB wrote: »
    With the money that will be spent over the lifetime of the lease, the government can just buy the building outright.

    Instead of the stupid Divide and Conquer outrage of workers vs the least-well-off - just fucking force the government to do the above, instead - then rent part of it to workers for profit (but nowhere near current rent levels), and have a percentage of the remainder for social housing.

    The government can make an actual profit from it, instead of the current shitshow of pissing enough money away into private hands, that could have (literally) built an entire other luxury apartment complex.

    I'm assuming that the building isn't actually for sale.

    Hard to see how the figures can be justified as good value though.


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    #101
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    What the **** am I doing working for a living. I work 50+ hours a week. My wife works the same. We could never afford €3000 a month in rent or mortgage. We struggle to get half that in monthly payments. We fear the prospect that the Germans will get their way (which they usually do) and interest rates will rise. If that happens I know we will be idiots and cut back on the few luxuries we have to keep up the mortgage payments. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.

    And yet now some lazy little waster is going to be handed one of these luxury apartments simply because they dropped out of school before the leaving cert, never worked a day in their lives but were lucky enough to have been born into the tax payer funded welfare class in the dundrum area.

    To hell with that. This has to change. Whichever political party promises to reward work and stop this abuse of hard working taxpayers gets my vote. If none of them do then I predict within a decade there will be a revolution and not the sort of one Paul Murphy, Claire Daily and the rest of the socialist leadership are always talking about.


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    #102
    macnug
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭macnug


    Wouldn't mind if all the people who got social housing were in need but I know of five people who have got social housing in the last few years and all of them have a partner living with them while claiming single parents. One I know is a painter who quoted a friend 750 to do a small hall/stairs which isn't exactly cheap. He's always busy too. Brand new qashqui sitting in the driveway a few months after getting the keys to the house. That's greed not need imo.


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    #103
    ziggyman17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭ziggyman17


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I suspect your bravery doesn't extend beyond the relative safety of an anonymous internet forum. ;-)

    The irony of your post........:D I love an internet hardman..........:p:p


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    #104
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I'm assuming that the building isn't actually for sale.

    Hard to see how the figures can be justified as good value though.
    It was sold almost at the exact same time by the looks of it. It was for sale.

    That, in addition, reeks of someone taking the absolute piss - since it could have been bought by the government, for the price it will eventually cost the government, with it having been for sale...


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    #105
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ziggyman17 wrote: »
    The irony of your post........:D I love an internet hardman..........:p:p

    Not me using derogatory terms to label others dude from the safety of a keyboard.


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    #106
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    I wonder will any questions be asked in the media of how something like this was given the green light? Will Matt Copper have someone in from DLRCoCo to ask him the questions we’re asking here? Will there be a piece on Prime Time investigation? There was enough said about the printer, and this is going to cost us multiples of that.

    Most media outlets seem to be afraid to touch these stories. The only man who seems to be asking these questions is Niall Boylan, and any panel he ever seems to be on, he’s there in the crazy alt-right role and made to look like a raving loon


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    #107
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    When you view fellow human beings as 'untermensch' ( sub human) and pondlife it's prehaps for the best you can't have children.
    Well said. Must be terrible to have all that hatred bitterness and need to look down on some part of society all the time. I wonder if the really wealthy look down on the poor workers here? Maybe they say "layabout scum only worked 50 hours this week"


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    #108
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    I wonder will any questions be asked in the media of how something like this was given the green light? Will Matt Copper have someone in from DLRCoCo to ask him the questions we’re asking here? Will there be a piece on Prime Time investigation? There was enough said about the printer, and this is going to cost us multiples of that.

    Most media outlets seem to be afraid to touch these stories. The only man who seems to be asking these questions is Niall Boylan, and any panel he ever seems to be on, he’s there in the crazy alt-right role and made to look like a raving loon
    Prime Time might if you ask them to


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    #109
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    In private rented one of the biggest loopholes/scams for years is boyfriends earning - living with their partners, providing income - the partner not telling the council.

    When there is an inspection the boyfriend gets lost for the day.

    It's rampant because councils don't have the resources to do any due diligence.

    I suppose that's a form of house share.
    And the workers never do a nixer they don't pay tax on. ? Or have the wife working in a cash in hand job?


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    #110
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    What's the average length of time to be waiting on the housing list. It's years isn't it? Years in which they haven't managed to improve their situation. It's not going to be the hugely subsidised accommodation in an area with loads of jobs that holds them back, it's going to be their own nature and upbringing.
    How do you know if all the people on this list work or not? Everyone in council houses are not wasters. I know of only one area well and people either work full time/part time on CE or are ill and unable to work or else they would be the wives of the workers/ce'ers sick who work running the home.


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    #111
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    Shane Lazy Shooter wrote: »
    Well said. Must be terrible to have all that hatred bitterness and need to look down on some part of society all the time. I wonder if the really wealthy look down on the poor workers here? Maybe they say "layabout scum only worked 50 hours this week"

    I’d say it’s more like the welfare class looking down their noses at the average income family, struggling to pay a mortgage/rent on a home miles from they work, putting off starting a family until their financially in a better position (sadly it’s sometimes left too late). All the while they can have as many children as they want, as having more children in this country is incentivized, get all the benefits going (which works out more then a “high earner” would earn after tax), and pay a paltry sum of money on a home someone who was working an average job wouldn’t be able to afford. They know they have it good.


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    #112
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    I’d say it’s more like the welfare class looking down their noses at the average income family, struggling to pay a mortgage/rent on a home miles from they work, putting off starting a family until their financially in a better position (sadly it’s sometimes left too late). All the while they can have as many children as they want, as having more children in this country is incentivized, get all the benefits going (which works out more then a “high earner” would earn after tax), and pay a paltry sum of money on a home someone who was working an average job wouldn’t be able to afford. They know they have it good.
    it is not the welfare people here all the time with insults re free houses etc while some of the residents are unable to work. if someone work 50 hours a weeks and cannot have the life the want they should do as they tell the welfares,
    on a home someone who was working an average job wouldn’t be able to afford
    Upskill get better jobs.


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    #113
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,270 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    I’d say it’s more like the welfare class looking down their noses at the average income family, struggling to pay a mortgage/rent on a home miles from they work, putting off starting a family until their financially in a better position (sadly it’s sometimes left too late). All the while they can have as many children as they want, as having more children in this country is incentivized, get all the benefits going (which works out more then a “high earner” would earn after tax), and pay a paltry sum of money on a home someone who was working an average job wouldn’t be able to afford. They know they have it good.

    I wonder do they? Entitlement doesn't usually come with a sense of gratitude.


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    #114
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Shane Lazy Shooter wrote: »
    Upskill get better jobs.

    You understand that there will always be average jobs though?


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    #115
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    Shane Lazy Shooter wrote: »
    it is not the welfare people here all the time with insults re free houses etc while some of the residents are unable to work. if someone work 50 hours a weeks and cannot have the life the want they should do as they tell the welfares,

    Upskill get better jobs.

    Society benefits from people working average wage jobs - they pay tax and do a job someone has to do. How do people who don’t work (but are well able to) and get every benefit they can, benefit society?


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    #116
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    Society benefits from people working average wage jobs - they pay tax and do a job someone has to do. How do people who don’t work (but are well able to) and get every benefit they can benefit society?
    That's not the point. if they want more get a better job. some will be happy with less. no point hating people who may not be able to work or even those who won't. Or if they are that jealous then stop work and join the welfare class with all the freebies
    Society benefits from people working average wage jobs -
    so if the people complaining here were given better jobs they would refuse to benefit society?


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    #117
    Muir
    Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    One of the biggest problems we have (and it's the same problem around the world) is that people are often inclined to think that everyone else is getting a better deal than they are. So, you never get everyone working together against this sort of bull**** because everyone is too busy fighting over crumbs.

    Many times on here I've explained that many people in social housing do work and do pay rent. However, I am still as disgusted by this as anyone else on here. Sometimes I think if people from all walks of life, and all political viewpoints, could actually sit down and have a rational conversation without resorting to name-calling and arguing, they'd find a lot more common ground than you might think.

    Too many of our policy makers benefit from high rents. And councils renting properties like this instead of the government working on ensuring there is adequate supply to meet the demand just worsens the problem. As rents continue to rise, a bigger proportion of the working class end up facing homelessness.

    There are loads of empty properties all over the country, it would be much cheaper to identify the reasons so many are empty, tackle whatever those issues are to make more of those properties available for rent, and then the increase in supply to meet the demand will cause rents to fall.

    We have full employment. Of course there will be a small minority that take the piss, there always are. Most people want to be able to rent, and in Ireland often to be able to buy their homes. The very small minority who wont work and have a sense of entitlement might be really frustrating, but they aren't the real problem. It's not council tenants or the homeless or the unemployed who decided that a property like this should be leased for 25 years at near market rates. I think almost everyone would agree that this is madness, and the money could be put to better use.


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    #118
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    You understand that there will always be average jobs though?

    And the people working these average jobs should have the option of renting secure state owned housing at a reasonable price.

    Instead they have to compete against the state in an exclusively private market where supply is controlled by vested interests who's only interest in in maximising profit.

    This pushes prices up for both renters and people hoping to buy their own home.

    The only winners are the cuckoo /vulture funds who can control the market and take advantage of tax breaks that the ordinary Joe can only dream of.

    It's not social welfare that's the problem, it's corporate welfare that's swallowing public money with no return for the people.


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    #119
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    To put into context, I’d need to be earning 177k a year to get a mortgage on the average price of these apartments.
    If I was on the scratcher and got a gaff like that, there’s not a hope I’d risk getting a job or improving myself.


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    #120
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I wonder do they? Entitlement doesn't usually come with a sense of gratitude.

    Oh they may not show gratitude, but they know it. There’s a reason the welfare class never move abroad, as they know they won’t get a better deal in any other country in the world.


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    #121
    randomspud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭randomspud


    Shane Lazy Shooter wrote: »

    Upskill get better jobs.


    Why can't this be applied to the people getting the cut price gaff from the council?


    If they can't afford to live in a €3000 a month place then they should just upskill and get a better/any job and not rely on the state to pay their rent for them.


    You expect the people on 50 hours a week, paying their own way, to just "do better" but the people on welfare are exempt from this for some reason.


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