The €3,000 per month luxury welfare apartments

suicide_circus · 30-11-2019 3:04pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

There is an election on the way. That's the place to express your feelings. Unaffordable rents, crippling insurance rates, 90 year old stuck on trolly for days, no school places for kids, etc, etc, etc.

ABFG would be my recommendation. None of the above problems are the fault of the unemployed or social welfare recipients, they don't spend our taxes.

oh FG need to go, no doubt. trouble is the rest of the field...i dont believe for a moment any of them are any more capable.

thomasdylan · 30-11-2019 3:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are not someone who has already chosen to receive benefits then being given one of those dwellings will be a life sentence. You will not travel abroad to seek work and broaden your horizons. you will not seek to improve your situation as you will lose your rights or be forced to pay more than a pittance for the rental on the property.
every life decision made will have the thought of what happens to "my" apartment shadowing over it. It'll be a poverty trap in not just monetary terms, a highly desirable poverty trap but a poverty trap none the less.

What's the average length of time to be waiting on the housing list. It's years isn't it? Years in which they haven't managed to improve their situation. It's not going to be the hugely subsidised accommodation in an area with loads of jobs that holds them back, it's going to be their own nature and upbringing.

DebDynamite · 30-11-2019 3:11pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Not one of these lotto windfall recipients will ever vote fg! They’ll bend over backwards for the cradle to grave welfare recipients here though. Disgusting

What do the councilors do except try block any development in their area. Oh but nothing but the best for the council tenants!

Not only that, they’ll actually complain about the government and how they’re being robbed, not doing enough for the people, etc. Yeah, there’s one class of people getting robbed alright, and it’s certainly not the welfare class.

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 3:15pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

There is an election on the way. That's the place to express your feelings. Unaffordable rents, crippling insurance rates, 90 year old stuck on trolly for days, no school places for kids, etc, etc, etc.

ABFG would be my recommendation. None of the above problems are the fault of the unemployed or social welfare recipients, they don't spend our taxes.

Right. We can vote from the left here , fg to the far left. Not much of a choice Is it ? The workers here don’t matter , there is the biggest open goal here for a new party to form. The only thing I think relegating fg to junior party would do , is make them think twice about lying , deceiving and screwing over workers again ...

MAJJ · 30-11-2019 3:19pm

Anyone know if there are public records that show which way councillors voted on this. I live in the area and have worked hard like so many to do so. I accept the governments role in social housing but this can't be the solution. It's divisive and will change the tone of politics to the right more.

smurgen · 30-11-2019 3:19pm

There's two angles to this. Government providing luxury accommodation when only adequate basic accomodation is required. Then you essentially have government paying 3.1 million in rent to a German investor fund for the next 25 years. So 78 million paid to a private fund enriching foreign investors at the expense of Irish tax payers. Why were these units not built by the council? They could be build cheaper than that 78 million and it would be an asset owned outright by the state that would last alot longer than 25 years. There has to be someone in the council or government with links to that fund or else money changed hands.

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 3:20pm

DebDynamite wrote: »

Not only that, they’ll actually complain about the government and how they’re being robbed, not doing enough for the people, etc. Yeah, there’s one class of people being getting robbed alright, and it’s certainly not the welfare class.

Oh yeah. I’ve saud it relentlessly on boards over the years. They have the most obscene welfare state in the world and still feel screwed over. Of course they believe it , because the entire media here is left wing. Rte in particular. Then the councilors, politicians want their votes. Of course they’ll tell them what they want to hear. It’s great keeping welfare rates so high here , make sure all the wasters don’t leave Ireland. Pity they don’t think the same about workers

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 3:21pm

MAJJ wrote: »

Anyone know if there are public records that show which way councillors voted on this. I live in the area and have worked hard like so many to do so. I accept the governments role in social housing but this can't be the solution. It's divisive and will change the tone of politics to the right more.

Yeah. I want this plastered up everywhere for people to see

Lpt should be scrapped. The council are giving properties away, let them in there start paying a fair share. Even if it is with the free money they get !

Guy:Incognito · 30-11-2019 3:25pm

Is everyone that owns property that isnt just a single landlord operating on their own, some sort of animal named fund now?

Or more precisely, bird named.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 30-11-2019 3:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't see not making an attempt at some sort of self-actualization in life as deprivation of opportunity then I can't help you.

If they can't manage to find a job and make something of their lives while unemployment rates are at their lowest in 14 years, I don't think being given an apartment is the root of the problem.

Jimbob1977 · 30-11-2019 3:36pm

Housing policy is set at national level

Housing allocations are performed by Dun Laoghaire Rathdown's Housing Department.

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown is a hodge podge of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, Green, Sinn Fein, Independent and PBP.

More likely the socialist parties looking after their voting base.

smurgen · 30-11-2019 3:36pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is everyone that owns property that isnt just a single landlord operating on their own, some sort of animal named fund now?

Or more precisely, bird named.

the portfolio of property will probably be set up and held in an Irish ICAV or REIT with the investor/master fund in German.

bunderoon · 30-11-2019 3:36pm

We're known internationally as Treasure Island.
This was overwhelmingly proven when junior and senior bondholders were bailed out. We actually borrowed money from the same funds that bail out said certain funds - at interest. Let that sink in. We borrowed, at interest, to bail out bondholders from the same bond holders. Double win.

After saving Europe with the banking crisis, you'd think that the money that we were lent would have been interest free...
But now. In the last 10 years of paying back other peoples debt, Ireland payed 60Billion in interest alone. ALONE!!!!! 6BM per year and that is growing. Imagine in just one year, that would pay for 3 children's hospitals for the country if we needed them..

Once Ireland was on its stomach, in comes the vulture funds and buy up the massive amount of property at 20-30% of it's cost price and then rent it out at full rental. Many on social welfare then use the state to fund (HAP) the rental price which goes to these vulture funds. It's nearly a double win.

Anyone got any info since on the Gardai raid on the Anglo tapes - or were they destroyed...

Then we have 3B broadband which will be 4B whenever its completed.
2B for the children's hospital when finished.
3m for a printers
The list is endless...

Pawwed Rig · 30-11-2019 3:40pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

That's the Fine Gael way. Give public money to private entities and own nothing instead of investing the money and acquiring assets for public ownership.

Public ownership always works out more expensive tbf. We are not capable of it in this country.

enricoh · 30-11-2019 3:43pm

Do these eejit councillors not realize that when word gets out of this it'll inspire even more people to join the housing list.
I see Dublin city council voted to increase business rates to make up a shortfall this week. Just tax the suckers trying to make a go of things!
Theres no hope for this place, just get the imf back in n get them to do what needs to be done.

NSAman · 30-11-2019 3:45pm

A simple question:

If you earn the average wage 42K can you afford one of these? No is the answer.

I am struggling to think of what complete and utter cooked up, spin induced thinking (or lack thereof) thought this was a good solution.

Spending other people’s money is easy...the lack of accountability means no one will take any responsibility for this crazy decision.

Boggles · 30-11-2019 3:45pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Public ownership always works out more expensive tbf. We are not capable of it in this country.

Eircom says Hello.

Dawido · 30-11-2019 3:49pm

It is not a good feeling to see how tax of hard working people (who spend most of their paycheck of rent and living expenses) is spent in this horrible way.

I would rather see people who work and rent get a social housing instead...

LoughNeagh2017 · 30-11-2019 4:13pm

I plan to always live at my fathers house so that I don't have to pay rent as a lower tier poor man, it is easy for men to look down on you when they earn 40k a year as we've seen on the salary post. My fathers house has 4 bedrooms but my brother and nephew will probably inherit it so I will move out then, move out of earth I mean. I refuse to live with my nephew as he was raised by a Belfast mother, he is a loud mouth and is rude to me even though I am 20 years older than him.

Plumbthedepths · 30-11-2019 4:18pm

PeasantHater wrote: »

This is completely unacceptable, I'm trying to buy a property about 1km from this development, which, after the life of the mortgage is going to work out at over 800k.

How is it right that the majority of untermensch that will be housed here can bang out a load of kids and have 3k a month rent essentially for free????

My wife and I would love to have kids but due to the housing situation we currently can't afford to do so, might have to wait a few years until we save up enough.

I can't stand this swamp of a country that allows pond life to live off the hard workers.

When you view fellow human beings as 'untermensch' ( sub human) and pondlife it's prehaps for the best you can't have children.

boring accountant · 30-11-2019 4:39pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

When you view fellow human beings as 'untermensch' ( sub human) and pondlife it's prehaps for the best you can't have children.

If you decide to live at our expense we earn the right to look down on you.

It's the closest thing to a fair trade off we get in this country.

smurgen · 30-11-2019 4:40pm

bunderoon wrote: »

We're known internationally as Treasure Island.
This was overwhelmingly proven when junior and senior bondholders were bailed out. We actually borrowed money from the same funds that bail out said certain funds - at interest. Let that sink in. We borrowed, at interest, to bail out bondholders from the same bond holders. Double win.

After saving Europe with the banking crisis, you'd think that the money that we were lent would have been interest free...
But now. In the last 10 years of paying back other peoples debt, Ireland payed 60Billion in interest alone. ALONE!!!!! 6BM per year and that is growing. Imagine in just one year, that would pay for 3 children's hospitals for the country if we needed them..

Once Ireland was on its stomach, in comes the vulture funds and buy up the massive amount of property at 20-30% of it's cost price and then rent it out at full rental. Many on social welfare then use the state to fund (HAP) the rental price which goes to these vulture funds. It's nearly a double win.

Anyone got any info since on the Gardai raid on the Anglo tapes - or were they destroyed...

Then we have 3B broadband which will be 4B whenever its completed.
2B for the children's hospital when finished.
3m for a printers
The list is endless...

We are getting shockingly bad value for money. Suspiciously so.

Plumbthedepths · 30-11-2019 4:53pm

boring accountant wrote: »

If you decide to live at our expense we earn the right to look down on you.

It's the closest thing to a fair trade off we get in this country.

I suspect your bravery doesn't extend beyond the relative safety of an anonymous internet forum. ;-)

Kermit.de.frog · 30-11-2019 5:20pm

This sort of stuff is going to bankrupt the state.

It's exponential. Example Margaret Cash costing the state an estimated 60k per year - her income is tax free, never worked a day in her life.

The children will follow the same path and it will be the same again multiplied by 6 or 7 or whatever the number is in the end in her case.

This is happening up and down this country now. It's generational.

It's a dependency culture. A cancer in society being aided and abetted by governments who refuse to cap total benefit payments.

Now they get luxury apartments.

Nobody who won't work in this country should have a standard of living equal to those who do work.

I feel sorry for the rent and mortgage payers in the area. Every risk the complex becomes a sink estate too to rub salt in. Only takes a family or two.

That's the lottery the locals now face and we all pick up the bill in the end.

Nermal · 30-11-2019 5:20pm

Repulsive stuff. All one can really do is try to starve the authorities of revenue. Evade taxes as much as possible, shop online so that council rate base decreases and so on. Hasten the collapse, because that's what it will take for our equivalent of a Thatcher or Reagan to arise.

suicide_circus · 30-11-2019 5:32pm

do house/flat shares exist in social housing?

Samuel T. Cogley · 30-11-2019 5:33pm

Look on the bright side. 87 apartments worth of people not on the LUAS going to work in the morning! :pac:

Outkast_IRE · 30-11-2019 5:36pm

Anytime i see news like this i think back to Varadkar's speech about leading the party for people who get up early in the morning to work. He has fulfilled nothing on that front , it is worse than ever for the working man.

Health system a shambles , so need to protect their family with private insurance which is struggling now too with waiting lists increasing all the time. Another few thousand per family to cover a service the state should be providing.

Childcare costs increasing year on year, with less tax incentives than ever for a mother or father to take a few years out of work to raise their kids.

House prices rising year on year, so you cant afford to live where you grew up and came from. Rents are worse.

Inflation in the general economy is eating up the meagre pay rises most are getting.

Social welfare class is in a better position than ever. Brand new houses being handed over to them for a few quid a week. While genuine working folk saddled with mortgages of over 1K per month at least. For the love of god, limit child benefit to 2 kids total if unemployed. If you are contributing significantly to society you get child benefit for each kid.

Fine Gael are on the road to a hiding in the next election. The problem is there is no good alternative. They are all left of centre now, all the parties want more refugees and asylum seekers , even though we cant house our own. Lets sort out our own problems first, then we can give a hand solving the refugee crisis the USA has caused by bringing down stable regimes all over the world and leaving destruction in their wake.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-wants-to-lead-party-for-people-who-get-up-early-in-the-morning-1.3090753

Cal4567 · 30-11-2019 5:37pm

Just logged in here for the first time for months.

It gets worse. This is only a 25 year leasing deal. At the end of the lease period, the apartments revert back to the fund. Poor value for the country.

Kermit.de.frog · 30-11-2019 5:39pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

do house/flat shares exist in social housing?

In private rented one of the biggest loopholes/scams for years is boyfriends earning - living with their partners, providing income - the partner not telling the council.

When there is an inspection the boyfriend gets lost for the day.

It's rampant because councils don't have the resources to do any due diligence.

I suppose that's a form of house share.

BDI · 30-11-2019 6:11pm

To think they could have bought all the boarded up hotels in Ireland for that money. Put the women and men in different hotels. That should be life on the welfare. Theyd be able to sell half the hotels in six months because suddenly the houseing issue would start solving itself.

30-11-2019 6:20pm

boring accountant wrote: »

This has just crystallised my decision to gtfo of this s**thole.

I'm a fool for staying as long as I did.

It's worth considering though that once you leave, it'll probably be too expensive to return (there's no chance of me being able to return until my mortgage is paid off). Also you won't tolerate the idea of spending so much to live in Ireland when you can have a cheaper lifestyle abroad with the same (or better) conditions. I do miss good bacon though.

I'd highly recommend Asia though. Absolutely booming for foreign work.

30-11-2019 6:32pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Housing policy is set at national level

Housing allocations are performed by Dun Laoghaire Rathdown's Housing Department.

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown is a hodge podge of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, Green, Sinn Fein, Independent and PBP.

More likely the socialist parties looking after their voting base.

If you think this story is bad, just imagine the amounts of money Councils around Ireland would have to shell out if Eoin O'Broin and his fellow Sinn Fein idiots manage to succeed in amending the Constitution to provide for a legal, constitutional right to a home.

If it ever happens, Eoin O'Broin will be the toast of the so-called Vulture Fund investors for the rest of his life!

Cal4567 · 30-11-2019 6:39pm

171170 wrote: »

If you think this story is bad, just imagine the amounts of money Councils around Ireland would have to shell out if Eoin O'Broin and his fellow Sinn Fein idiots manage to succeed in amending the Constitution to provide for a legal, constitutional right to a home.

If it ever happens, Eoin O'Broin will be the toast of the so-called Vulture Fund investors for the rest of his life!

Actually I think SF policy would be to put as much of this new social housing on existing state lands.

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 6:41pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

When you view fellow human beings as 'untermensch' ( sub human) and pondlife it's prehaps for the best you can't have children.

He’s right. There is a total underclass here that are bent over backwards for ! Endless excuses trotted out for them! It’s the worlds biggest apologist state. Always the victim , never to blame!

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 6:45pm

Nermal wrote: »

Repulsive stuff. All one can really do is try to starve the authorities of revenue. Evade taxes as much as possible, shop online so that council rate base decreases and so on. Hasten the collapse, because that's what it will take for our equivalent of a Thatcher or Reagan to arise.

How’s this for not giving the **** a cent more than I need too ? Filling up the petrol tank in newry when I’m up that way , even when it cost slightly more up there than down here. A few euro more on a hundred pound fill. But the satisfaction? Priceless!

I buy most stuff online and not from here to avoid the revenue going to bookies , pubs , jd sports etc. the next car I get , getting something with dirt cheap tax, their not getting e1809 again. To waste it all on ****e!

30-11-2019 6:47pm

Cal4567 wrote: »

Actually I think SF policy would be to put as much of this new social housing on existing state lands.

And, while these tens of thousands of wonderful forever social homes were being built, which, as we well know would take decades, where do you actually think that Sinn Fein would accommodate the homeless?

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 6:49pm

Casey needs to start a new party. Of course he’s a **** communicator etc. it doesn’t really matter. Plenty of us prepared to vote for policy not personality. Totally bizarre that there isn’t even a credible centrist party to vote for here after roughly a century of ffg failure !

lawred2 · 30-11-2019 6:53pm

Everyone wants the 'housing crisis sorted' until they see how this Irish government sees fit to go about it... Basically shafting working people to bestow significant luxury on the work shy while transferring large sums of taxes collected into private hands.

It fûcking stinks

Idbatterim · 30-11-2019 6:58pm

I can’t stand nimbies , but if there is a protest down there about it , sign me up !!!

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-11-2019 7:00pm

There is (hopefully) a tipping point coming

30-11-2019 7:08pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

getting one of those apartments for 50 per week or whatever it is...the equivalent of winning the lotto

Have you got a link to that figure?

Many workers avail of social housing.

CalamariFritti · 30-11-2019 7:16pm

smurgen wrote: »

There's two angles to this. Government providing luxury accommodation when only adequate basic accomodation is required. Then you essentially have government paying 3.1 million in rent to a German investor fund for the next 25 years. So 78 million paid to a private fund enriching foreign investors at the expense of Irish tax payers. Why were these units not built by the council? They could be build cheaper than that 78 million and it would be an asset owned outright by the state that would last alot longer than 25 years. There has to be someone in the council or government with links to that fund or else money changed hands.

Because FG believe in 'the market' at all costs. They'd rather pay a fund that money than build the yokes themselves for a fraction because 'socialism'. That thinking comes out in everything they do, shouldn't be a surprise.

Boggles · 30-11-2019 7:16pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Casey needs to start a new party. Of course he’s a **** communicator etc. it doesn’t really matter. Plenty of us prepared to vote for policy not personality. Totally bizarre that there isn’t even a credible centrist party to vote for here after roughly a century of ffg failure !

What are Casey's documented policies on the housing, health, infrastructure, etc?

I've only ever heard him ranting and raving about travelers.

KyussB · 30-11-2019 7:24pm

With the money that will be spent over the lifetime of the lease, the government can just buy the building outright.

Instead of the stupid Divide and Conquer outrage of workers vs the least-well-off - just fucking force the government to do the above, instead - then rent part of it to workers for profit (but nowhere near current rent levels), and have a percentage of the remainder for social housing.

The government can make an actual profit from it, instead of the current shitshow of pissing enough money away into private hands, that could have (literally) built an entire other luxury apartment complex.

hmmm · 30-11-2019 7:25pm

Casey is a one-hit wonder in my view. He expressed peoples frustrations on a single issue, but there is nothing substantial there.

SF and the other assorted lefties are an answer? You've got to be kidding me, they would expand this program if they ever got near power.

What we need is a political party which will stand up for taxpayers and workers. This used to be FF & FG, but they've gone completely mad with spending taxpayers money as if there is an endless pot of it.

There's no other country in the world (that I am aware of) where you can remain indefinitely on the dole, and where you will be handed luxury apartments as part of social welfare. Even if the apartments go to worthy recipients (I'm not sure who they are, but maybe there are some), this will send out a message to anyone who is trying to make a decision between trying to get a job or remaining unemployed.

Rubberchikken · 30-11-2019 7:26pm

maybe a better look into this by a newspaper not afraid to investigate stuff inb this country is needed.

someone is benefiting and its not just the 'poor.

MonkieSocks · 30-11-2019 7:28pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

There is (hopefully) a tipping point coming

Probably Pointless at this stage

HeidiHeidi · 30-11-2019 7:32pm

KyussB wrote: »

With the money that will be spent over the lifetime of the lease, the government can just buy the building outright.

Instead of the stupid Divide and Conquer outrage of workers vs the least-well-off - just fucking force the government to do the above, instead - then rent part of it to workers for profit (but nowhere near current rent levels), and have a percentage of the remainder for social housing.

The government can make an actual profit from it, instead of the current shitshow of pissing enough money away into private hands, that could have (literally) built an entire other luxury apartment complex.

I'm assuming that the building isn't actually for sale.

Hard to see how the figures can be justified as good value though.

touts · 30-11-2019 7:40pm

What the **** am I doing working for a living. I work 50+ hours a week. My wife works the same. We could never afford €3000 a month in rent or mortgage. We struggle to get half that in monthly payments. We fear the prospect that the Germans will get their way (which they usually do) and interest rates will rise. If that happens I know we will be idiots and cut back on the few luxuries we have to keep up the mortgage payments. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.

And yet now some lazy little waster is going to be handed one of these luxury apartments simply because they dropped out of school before the leaving cert, never worked a day in their lives but were lucky enough to have been born into the tax payer funded welfare class in the dundrum area.

To hell with that. This has to change. Whichever political party promises to reward work and stop this abuse of hard working taxpayers gets my vote. If none of them do then I predict within a decade there will be a revolution and not the sort of one Paul Murphy, Claire Daily and the rest of the socialist leadership are always talking about.

The €3,000 per month luxury welfare apartments

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