Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

gozunda · 05-09-2018 10:16am

Unfortunately many of the above drama-documentaties which I've seen do not stand up to scrutiny and frequently peddle misinformation imo.

Thankfully I'm not the only individual who has noticed this trend...

By Virginia Messina, MPH, RD

As a vegan health professional, I am sometimes mortified to be associated with the junk science that permeates our community. And as an animal rights activist, I’m disheartened by advocacy efforts that can make us look scientifically illiterate, dishonest, and occasionally like a cult of conspiracy theorists.

There is a growing movement to create a more honest and evidence-based approach to vegan nutrition, though. And those of us who value this effort need to be a more visible presence in the animal rights community. We can’t allow our voices to be drowned out by the pseudoscientific noise. We need the non-vegan world to know that it is possible to stand in support of animal rights while embracing scientific integrity.

https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

Tilikum17 · 05-09-2018 1:13pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I watched Food Choices last night, I found it very interesting, particularly the contributions from the Ultra-endurance athletes, boxers and MMA fighters who reported significant improvements in their fitness and performances since switching to a plant-based diet.

A friend sent me this list of documentaries earlier, some of them have been mentioned in the thread already.

Cheers!! A few there I’ve not seen.

TheFortField · 05-09-2018 3:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

Unfortunately many of the above drama-documentaties which I've seen do not stand up to scrutiny and frequently peddle misinformation imo.

Thankfully I'm not the only individual who has noticed this trend...

https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

I don't want to derail the thread but I'd like to address the point you've made. I don't buy into everything I'm told and accept it as gospel. For example: look at the alcohol industry, they'll tell you that red wine is good for your heart and it may even help to prevent dementia - on the other side, the medical profession tell us that alcohol can cause cancer and there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. So what do we do? Some people will carry on drinking heavily, others will reduce their intake and a smaller number will eliminate alcohol completely. All we can do is evaluate the information that is available to us and make choices that suit us and our lives.

I started this thread after watching Forks over Knives. The documentary prompted me to re-evaluate my diet. For the first 18 years of my life I followed mainly a vegetarian diet as my mother was vegetarian (which was unusual at the time in Ireland). For the next 20 years, I was in a relationship with a part-time dairy and beef farmer who loved all food - fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. I was converted and I will admit I embraced and thoroughly enjoyed this lifestyle.

However, while I was eating what I considered healthy foods and exercising daily I felt really dreadful most of the time - yet on paper I was a healthy person - good blood test results, no medical conditions, no meds, no weight issues etc. I decided to give the plant-based diet a try a couple of months ago, the first couple of weeks were awful, I had headaches and I was permanently exhausted. However, I'm glad I stuck with it. I have never felt healthier and happier in my whole life! I won't go listing all the benefits but I definitely notice that my mood is so much better, my mind is sharper, clearer and I have more energy. The only downside so far is I've dropped a size and need to buy new clothes.

I'm not racing out to convert people to veganism/vegetarianism but so far it seems to be benefitting me and without seeing FOK or reading 'How Not To Die' it might have taken me years to make these changes as my GP would never have had any reason to raise diet with me.

gozunda · 05-09-2018 7:46pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I'd like to address the point you've made. I don't buy into everything I'm told and accept it as gospel. For example: look at the alcohol industry, they'll tell you that red wine is good for your heart and it may even help to prevent dementia - on the other side, the medical profession tell us that alcohol can cause cancer and there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. So what do we do? Some people will carry on drinking heavily, others will reduce their intake and a smaller number will eliminate alcohol completely. All we can do is evaluate the information that is available to us and make choices that suit us and our lives.

I started this thread after watching Forks over Knives. The documentary prompted me to re-evaluate my diet. For the first 18 years of my life I followed mainly a vegetarian diet as my mother was vegetarian (which was unusual at the time in Ireland). For the next 20 years, I was in a relationship with a part-time dairy and beef farmer who loved all food - fruit, vegetables, meat and fish. I was converted and I will admit I embraced and thoroughly enjoyed this lifestyle.

However, while I was eating what I considered healthy foods and exercising daily I felt really dreadful most of the time - yet on paper I was a healthy person - good blood test results, no medical conditions, no meds, no weight issues etc. I decided to give the plant-based diet a try a couple of months ago, the first couple of weeks were awful, I had headaches and I was permanently exhausted. However, I'm glad I stuck with it. I have never felt healthier and happier in my whole life! I won't go listing all the benefits but I definitely notice that my mood is so much better, my mind is sharper, clearer and I have more energy. The only downside so far is I've dropped a size and need to buy new clothes.

I'm not racing out to convert people to veganism/vegetarianism but so far it seems to be benefitting me and without seeing FOK or reading 'How Not To Die' it might have taken me years to make these changes as my GP would never have had any reason to raise diet with me.

No worries on anything you have detailed. That's a personal viewpoint. However it remains that a lot of those drama-documentaries use pseudo-science and whole bunches of misinformation. As detailed above this has been highlighted by both vegans when others. Personslly I can only liken watching some of them to the communist era propaganda

jbroaders · 06-09-2018 10:05pm

Forks and knives is why I turned vegan about 8 weeks ago. That article just shattered my resolve. Brilliantly written. Dammit !!

Tar.Aldarion · 07-09-2018 2:11am

jbroaders wrote: »

Forks and knives is why I turned vegan about 8 weeks ago. That article just shattered my resolve. Brilliantly written. Dammit !!

In general, do not believe a documentary about everything, the same as you should not believe most people about anything. In general all these things exaggerate somewhat as they need to get views but the main message is "Vegetables are good for you. Stop eating processed foods and you will be healthier". If you take that as a starting point to work on you'll be much better off. If you actually want to learn about nutrition go to a nutrition forum such as https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/ or use the boards forum.

davidjtaylor · 11-09-2018 1:17pm

The Vegan Society has a few videos on its website too.

I just watched Making the Connection; personal stories mixed with inspiring interviews. Iain Tolhurst does an excellent job for stock-free gardening.

12-09-2018 8:08am

Not sure where to post this link but has anyone seen this ?

Is it worth me going to a lot of hassle to see it ?

P&O stops transporting calves following BBC investigation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45487502

12-09-2018 10:03am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure where to post this link but has anyone seen this ?

Is it worth me going to a lot of hassle to see it ?

P&O stops transporting calves following BBC investigation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45487502

I forgot to say the last paragraph of that article was pretty jaw dropping to me.

davidjtaylor · 12-09-2018 10:28am

It's not easy to access much of BBC iPlayer stuff from outside the UK. Fair enough! We don't pay their licence fee.

It may appear on YouTube at some point.

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 11:34am

Another good one, 10 years old but even more relevant today, full of good points, inspiring:

Processed People

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 11:46am

Try this one: it's not from a vegan slant. Instead, it's an understated eye-popper about the insanity of the American diet.

It's another case of poor people handing over their money to the mega-rich in exchange for ill-health.

King Corn

gozunda · 16-09-2018 12:07pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Try this one: it's not from a vegan slant. Instead, it's an understated eye-popper about the insanity of the American diet.

It's another case of poor people handing over their money to the mega-rich in exchange for ill-health.

King Corn

I don't think anyone would argue that eating highly processed foods or diet high in same is bad for you.

The issue with many pro-vegan documentaries ive watched is that the evident use of misinformation and faux science used to push veganism specifically.

That's fine - however it does have the unfortunate consequence that it can lead to this ...

davidjtaylor · 16-09-2018 4:17pm

I haven't watched this in full yet. Unity

100 celebrities narrate this enlightening documentary that re-examines the interconnectedness of all life on Earth, ponders our place in the universe, while taking viewers on an epic journey through the history of civilization and beyond. In this compassionate and inspiring film, your heart and mind are taken on a rollercoaster ride that is inspiring, horrifying and enlightening all at once, the perfect balance between light and shadow.

Beware: distressing in parts.

davidjtaylor · 17-09-2018 12:17pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Unity

Beware: distressing in parts.

Watched it. It examines the place of humans in the universe and their contradictions and possibilities and the centrality of 'do no harm'. Lots of take-away thoughts.

It's impossible to watch in many sections. Eating live fish? :eek:

17-09-2018 12:28pm

Hard to watch but very important watch also.

The truth does hurt.

I’d be delighted to see it as part of the curriculum.

Not sure what age group though.

gozunda · 17-09-2018 2:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hard to watch but very important watch also.
The truth does hurt.
I’d be delighted to see it as part of the curriculum.
Not sure what age group though.

Afaik the national curriculum generally doesn't use Hollywood propaganda type films

To be fair some vegans and others have been very critical of the film to date.

Since becoming a vegan, I have learnt more and more about the ways in which veganism is seen by others and how there is a very wrong use of heavy propaganda in order to “force” others to adapt this lifestyle. This has been something I have disliked from the beginning, as it is up to each person to find their beliefs. One of the main reasons I did not like Unity in the end, was due to the fact that there was an overwhelming bombardment of graphic images, statistics, famous quotes that were used completely out of context and even a fish being eaten whilst alive in China. I understand the need sometimes to shock people and show them harsh realities, however when suddenly all health problems seam to be put down to eating meat and when it is suggested that we are soon to evolve into a whole new species called Homo-Spiritus, (both of which are displayed in the film), I think it quickly turns into one man enforcing his views on others, with no real scientific, evolutionary or factual backing and knowledge. There appears to be an underlying tone that those who eat meat are somehow wrong and not elevated, both physically and spiritually as vegans are, which only serves to divide people and the films viewers, a complete contradiction to the films message of unity and harmony among all beings.

https://gemsandrainbows.wordpress.com/2015/08/15/unity-film-review/

http://www.impulsegamer.com/unity-film-review/

Homo-Spiritus :rolleyes:

davidjtaylor · 18-09-2018 11:02am

The Marshall Plan

When [Marshall] Texas Mayor Ed Smith III was diagnosed with prostate cancer, he elected to forego conventional treatment in favor of a whole food, plant-based diet. The results were nothing short of miraculous: his cancer disappeared. He and his wife embarked on a mission to help their town and community adopt a healthier lifestyle based on plant foods.

The stories of Marshall's residents are combined with interviews from expert doctors and researchers in the field of nutrition, and professional athletes.

18-09-2018 1:01pm

Quite a few movies I’ve never heard of there so I’ve some viewing ahead of me.

davidjtaylor · 18-09-2018 1:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Quite a few movies I’ve never heard of there sonive some viewing ahead of me.

I've learnt about a few on this thread too!. I'm putting together a list here. It's a work in progress.

TheFortField · 18-09-2018 4:43pm

I watched PlantPure Nation last night, I enjoyed it. The documentary was made by Nelson Campbell, son of Dr. T. Colin Campbell who featured in Forks Over Knives.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3699150/

I know that there has been some criticism of these documentaries on this thread but I must admit I really like the 'Plant Doctors' - Dr. Campbell, Esselstyn & Gerger, they feel like old friends at this stage.

I'm on the WFPB diet over two and a half months now and I have never felt happier or healthier in my life. I no longer feel my 42 years, I only wish I had discovered this way of life sooner....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBKnG9Y0owQ

davidjtaylor · 18-09-2018 4:55pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I know that there has been some criticism of these documentaries on this thread

There'll always be trolls, people who don't or won't understand, people who have a vested interest. Just ignore them and carry on setting an excellent example.

TheFortField wrote: »

I'm on the WFPB diet over two and a half months now and I have never felt happier or healthier in my life. I no longer feel my 42 years, I only wish I had discovered this way of life sooner....

Exactly this. I'm the same weight I was 30 years ago (73 kilos, around 23.5 BMI) and perfectly healthy.

gozunda · 18-09-2018 8:52pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

There'll always be trolls, people who don't or won't understand, people who have a vested interest. Just ignore them and carry on setting an excellent example.
Exactly this. I'm the same weight I was 30 years ago (73 kilos, around 23.5 BMI) and perfectly healthy.

Name calling and mud throwing?

Is that not simply shooting the messenger in order to massage ego? And Imo personal anecdotes are not a defence of a refusal to look at such promotional filmography with any type of critical mind. Not disbelieving anyone but humorously my grand uncle who smoked use to come out with similar about his lifestyle tbh.

It's unfortunate that the viewing of all other opinion as 'trolls" and 'vested interests' amounts to head in the sand with fingers in ears lol.

And in a strange reversal it would appear that there are indeed some 'vested interests' pushing many of these productions. I do wonder why there is an incessant need to be told by outside influences how and what to think and any and all opinion derided?

It remains both vegans and others have variously been critical of the style and content of many of these promotional type films. It is also a fact that many of these films do not stand up to scrutiny.

Edgar Allan Poe got it right when he said "Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."

And on topic If you would like to debate the issues with some of the films highlighted - I would be more than happy to discuss same.

TheFortField · 18-09-2018 9:30pm

For the record, I welcome all opinions especially ones that challenge my personal views/beliefs. We can all learn from each other.

However, this thread was set up so Vegans/Vegetarians could find more documentaries like 'Forks Over Knives'. You haven't recommended any documentaries and you have made a number of attempts to derail the thread by slating plant-based diet documentaries. Why not start a new thread to discuss the issues you feel so passionately about?

As for personal testimonies, I notice lots of positive changes in my health and wellbeing since switching to a plant-based diet but it's my personal choice, I'm not trying to sell it to anyone else - live and let I say!!!

gozunda · 18-09-2018 10:15pm

TheFortField wrote: »

For the record, I welcome all opinions especially ones that challenge my personal views/beliefs. We can all learn from each other.

However, this thread was set up so Vegans/Vegetarians could find more documentaries like 'Forks Over Knives'. You haven't recommended any documentaries and you have made a number of attempts to derail the thread by slating plant-based diet documentaries. Why not start a new thread to discuss the issues you feel so passionately about?

As for personal testimonies, I notice lots of positive changes in my health and wellbeing since switching to a plant-based diet but it's my personal choice, I'm not trying to sell it to anyone else - live and let I say!!!

I agree with your first paragraph. I like discussion. Hence my comments on those films watched. Why then the negation of this in the rest of the comment?

Tbh of those documentaries watched - the science and approach behind many are grossly wanting imo. This is backed this up with other opinion other than just mine.

Expressing such opinion is neither derailing' - nor 'slating'. It is simply opinion. Of note the audience for this thread is boards wide not and just this forum. Pushing the view that opinions on these films should not be expressed is indeed a strange one.

My point about personal anecdotes is they are what they are but do not constitute a defence to either deny or ignore some very obvious issues with those films.

TheFortField · 18-09-2018 10:31pm

gozunda wrote: »

I agree with your first paragraph. I like discussion. Hence my comments on those films watched. Why then the negation of this in the rest of the comment?

Tbh of those documentaries watched - the science and approach behind many are grossly wanting imo. This is backed this up with other opinion other than just mine.

Expressing such opinion is neither derailing' - nor 'slating'. It is simply opinion. Of note the audience for this thread is boards wide not and just this forum. Pushing the view that opinions on these films should not be expressed is indeed a strange one.

My point about personal anecdotes is they are what they are but do not constitute a defence to either deny or ignore some very obvious issues with those films.

It's pretty simple though when I set up the thread I was merely looking for WFPB documentaries, not an ongoing debate. I believe such a discussion deserves a thread of its own.

Anyway, have you any WFPB documentaries that you are prepared to recommend?

18-09-2018 10:35pm

There’s a few posters I have on ignore now so not sure what you guys are referring to but it’s always best to report a post rather than give oxygen.

I’ve also learned that the ignore option also takes away the oxygen.

The ‘report post’ button is there for a good reason.

gozunda · 18-09-2018 10:41pm

TheFortField wrote: »

It's pretty simple though when I set up the thread I was merely looking for WFPB documentaries, not an ongoing debate. I believe such a discussion deserves a thread of its own.
Anyway, have you any WFPB documentaries that you are prepared to recommend?

Is that not missing the point of Boards which is a place for discussion. And is it really better for everyone to slavishly agree even where there is evidence and other opinion to the contrary?
I doubt it. Btw not all of the films are the same but many exhibit similar flaws in that they are based on what amounts to subject propaganda and claims which are indeed staggering. And it's not only me but also some vegans who hold those opinions.

In the opening remarks you said that after watching a film you were "blown away by the health benefits experienced by some chronically ill patients (heart disease, diabetes etc) who switched to a Plant Based Diet"

You also thanked me for the article I posted that pointed out some of the issues with the science used in that film. What has changed?

As I quoted I believe it is always best practice to

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see"

Edgar Allan Poe

18-09-2018 11:48pm

OP have you watched Okja ?

I know it’s not directly about plant based food but is is another movie about reducing animal cruelty.

18-09-2018 11:55pm

There are so many more movies and documentaries on the benefits of plant based food and I really really need to make time to watch some more of them.

These are two I’m looking forward to seeing -

https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/vegan-rich-roll-hosts-premiere-fiona-oakes-documentary-running-for-good

And slice of life could be interesting too -

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/new-documentary-showcases-innovation-plant-based-food-world/

Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

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