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UK Farming payments after Brexit revealed

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  • 01-12-2020 12:41am
    #1
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭


    https://youtu.be/jx871X_lEA4

    Channel4 report on U.K. farming after Brexit.
    Will be paid to improve wildlife.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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    #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    As long as it’s not just used as a system to reduce overall payments.

    Based on that premise it will be interesting to see how it works, the EU will at some stage be heading down the same route.


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    #3
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    _Brian wrote: »
    As long as it’s not just used as a system to reduce overall payments.

    Based on that premise it will be interesting to see how it works, the EU will at some stage be heading down the same route.

    Depending on how 2021 plays out on grain supply their could be a serious rethink by the Eu on Cap policy and going full blown enviromental save the planet mode, china is gobbling up any bit of maize and soya it can get its hands on, with drought like conditions in south america already looking like having a serious impact on 2021 supply


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    #4
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Depending on how 2021 plays out on grain supply their could be a serious rethink by the Eu on Cap policy and going full blown enviromental save the planet mode, china is gobbling up any bit of maize and soya it can get its hands on, with drought like conditions in south america already looking like having a serious impact on 2021 supply

    How are the going now on the pig front?


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    #5
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Jjameson wrote: »
    How are the going now on the pig front?

    Ramping up numbers again and going for huge new units, to replace the traditional set up of a couple of pigs been reared by families hence surge in demand for commodites to feed these new factory farms as the old school way of pigs been fed slops and waste food is scaled back


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The tory (small t as I've no respect for them) policy on payments will, I suggest, hand more of the British countryside into the hands of the most wealthy in that society, and likely wreck it to boot. I can only see a small minority of enterprising small or medium farmers making it without subs in the ****ed up food system we basically share.


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    #7
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    I can never really grasp the system, in terms of tenancy agreements and taxation they are still where we were pre the the land act?
    Don’t the Tories still hold the farmers by default?
    If the farmers go broke so does the landlord?

    https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author


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    #8
    st1979
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    Look on the UK farming forum and they are in general happy out with Brexit. Even the ones hit hardest. They say it may take 50 years but Britain will be better off out of EU. Kind of war like attitude. 50 years is 2 generations of pain.
    But there again if you were farming in a country that was importing a lot of food you may feel that the imports were holding back your farm gate prices. And remember the Irish export a lot of beef and dairy to uk


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    #9
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    First-hand take on it here from the guy who wrote 'English Pastoral': https://twitter.com/herdyshepherd1/status/1333335912407818240

    "So this is what I think about the policy announcement

    There is quite a lot of hope in it (and the people working on it behind the scenes are good) - but it is shrouded in vagueness..."

    [continues in thread]

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    First-hand take on it here from the guy who wrote 'English Pastoral': https://twitter.com/herdyshepherd1/status/1333335912407818240

    "So this is what I think about the policy announcement

    There is quite a lot of hope in it (and the people working on it behind the scenes are good) - but it is shrouded in vagueness..."

    [continues in thread]

    Look further down and Rob Havard slates it.


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    #11
    somofagun
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭somofagun


    I'm a Tyrone farmer who has a 30 acre hill-ish farm with a few sheep and store cattle. All the environmental crap they are going on about is going to be used as a way to reduce the payments even here in the north. The government will used cheap imports to keep the price of food down so the population in general wont give a dam where their food comes from.
    This new policy is all geared towards the major land owners in England/Scotland & Wales who are the Ministry of Defense, Royals, Forestry Service & the nation trust who between them owe's nearly 4 million acres.
    Maybe starting a new cattle shed was a bad idea.


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    #12
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The tory (small t as I've no respect for them) policy on payments will, I suggest, hand more of the British countryside into the hands of the most wealthy in that society, and likely wreck it to boot. I can only see a small minority of enterprising small or medium farmers making it without subs in the ****ed up food system we basically share.

    Its not the land that makes the money.


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    #13
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Jjameson wrote: »
    I can never really grasp the system, in terms of tenancy agreements and taxation they are still where we were pre the the land act?
    Don’t the Tories still hold the farmers by default?
    If the farmers go broke so does the landlord?

    https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author
    Theres so many loop holes it pays people with expensive houses to set up a company to buy the family home as a business and lease it back to themselves.
    There a myriad of ways the land can be tied up in trusts.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Its not the land that makes the money.

    The wealthy obtain land to act as a tax haven.


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    #15
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The wealthy obtain land to act as a tax haven.

    No they dont as most land barelly washes it’s face to the income needed to up keep. Its the property potential that keeps the lights on as housing in the country side is scarce and desirable if its commutable to high earning centres like london or cambridge. Rent on an old modernised farmhouse would easilly get 6k/M in the home counties.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    No they dont as most land barelly washes it’s face to the income needed to up keep. Its the property potential that keeps the lights on as housing in the country side is scarce and desirable if its commutable to high earning centres like london or cambridge. Rent on an old modernised farmhouse would easilly get 6k/M in the home counties.

    It's called inheritance tax.


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    #17
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's called inheritance tax.

    Thats been done before post ww2 when the place was broke. Most fancy estate houses ended up in the national trust, it costs a fooking fortune.


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Thats been done before post ww2 when the place was broke. Most fancy estate houses ended up in the national trust, it costs a fooking fortune.

    I'll leave you to it.


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    #19
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'll leave you to it.

    No i'd like you to continue to entertain with the marxist utopia. Do i need to call Gabe Brown?


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    #20
    Welding Rod
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Welding Rod


    The new UK policy will surely drive down farm gate output over there. If there increasing income from bunnies and hedgehogs, then surely beef, dairy and cereals will reduce in output.
    Can only be an opportunity for Irish producers to grab more share of beef and dairy in particular.


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    #21
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    The Tories will give all the money to the landed ~cùnts~ and screw everyone else.

    It's the Tories for god sake


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    #22
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭alps


    Going to be terrific opportunities for grazing dairy set ups as this rolls out.

    Savage incentive for an existing farmer to exit, and indoor systems going to find the greater pinch with loss of payment on cereals.

    Land blocks to die for and home based secure market.


    Split calving based on quality grass silage is going to be the opportunity.


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    #23
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,887 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    alps wrote: »
    Going to be terrific opportunities for grazing dairy set ups as this rolls out.

    Savage incentive for an existing farmer to exit, and indoor systems going to find the greater pinch with loss of payment on cereals.

    Land blocks to die for and home based secure market.


    Split calving based on quality grass silage is going to be the opportunity.
    In the uk?


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    #24
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    alps wrote: »
    Going to be terrific opportunities for grazing dairy set ups as this rolls out.

    Savage incentive for an existing farmer to exit, and indoor systems going to find the greater pinch with loss of payment on cereals.

    Land blocks to die for and home based secure market.


    Split calving based on quality grass silage is going to be the opportunity.

    Their is massive seasonality penalties on spring summer milk out their at present, 6-8 cent a litre above your monthly rolling average on a reference year, they haven't the processing capacity for the above and given a huge volume of their milk goes to liquid they simply don't want high solid milk


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    #25
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭alps


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Their is massive seasonality penalties on spring summer milk out their at present, 6-8 cent a litre above your monthly rolling average on a reference year, they haven't the processing capacity for the above and given a huge volume of their milk goes to liquid they simply don't want high solid milk

    That's why I said split calving..


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    #26
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭alps


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    In the uk?

    Yep..


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    #27
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    alps wrote: »
    That's why I said split calving..

    I think any increase in luvestock numbers will be politically knocked on the head. In saying that as the hill farms will be pretty much abandonned unless supported there will be a change in cow from beef to dairy all right.
    You’ll have to start to endear yourself with the land agent network, i’m told a brown envelope can open many doors. XD


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    #28
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭alps


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    I think any increase in luvestock numbers will be politically knocked on the head. In saying that as the hill farms will be pretty much abandonned unless supported there will be a change in cow from beef to dairy all right.
    You’ll have to start to endear yourself with the land agent network, i’m told a brown envelope can open many doors. XD

    Not too many with an Irish passport have succeeded...that's for sure..


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    #29
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,887 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    I think any increase in luvestock numbers will be politically knocked on the head. In saying that as the hill farms will be pretty much abandonned unless supported there will be a change in cow from beef to dairy all right.
    You’ll have to start to endear yourself with the land agent network, i’m told a brown envelope can open many doors. XD
    How much is good land over there?


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    #30
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    How much is good land over there?
    Bit less than ireland but not massivelly either..
    Depends grade 1+irrigation would be easily 15K+ if a decent water allowance. Sandy silty ideal veg land, poorer yielding combinables due to being too dry.
    Half the place here would be grade 3/4 as in think of border counties clay patches-fermanagh with half as much rain (750mm), you'd still get 8-10 in the morning if farm facilities are in good nick.
    In the uk property developement in the country side can be a game changer, it's impossible to get a new build without existing structure to canabalise the shell or on a farm for essential staff farm workers. Family can be hard unless proven to be required by the farm. Otherwise it's town or village. That old knackered out farm could build you a new slatted shed with change.....
    You can rent land straight, set up a vaguely equal risk and reward farm business tenancy or contract farm( farm to a set price+ extras like hedge cutting or tree clearing etc) and some where in the middle on crop farms atleast.
    You'd rent around here for 150£/acre but if you've competition it can get stupid.
    It would need a bit of homework as we dry out mid summer most years so they would buffer feed a few weeks as it has started to hit mid 30's+ regularly for a week or 2 these last 7 years. The Wet West, think of a line down central uk would be best suited for grass system or north from Lincolnshire id guess.
    There is farms that will have thousands of acres in a ring fence only for internal road way, our agronomist grew heroin poppies on a few well away from prying eyes in a previous life. It aint all greener grass, weekly we'd have to deal with people walking across fields/farm tracks/grass margins or buffer strips cos 'entitled' rather than on footpaths(another issue). Regularly get visitors with lerchers engaging with their cultural herritage due to literally hundreds of deer and countless hares and other wild life on farm on top of the normal hassle you'd get at home.


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