Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

dual fuel central heating correct setup

Options
  • 16-09-2019 11:34am
    #1
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭


    I've just had a new oil fired boiler installed.
    Have an open fire back boiler.
    I'm trying to figure out how its all connected?
    As in, the 2 circulating pumps pumping in same direction or against?
    Is the non return valve on oil burner because the 2 pumps are pumping against each other?
    Should I have non return valve on back boiler also?
    Apparently there's a safety issue if power goes and pump stops, heat must be dispersed, some people suggest direct uninhibited line to cylinder, i think i have pipe straight up to expansion tank, Would this be typical?
    any feedback would be appreciated.


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There are devices that plumbers use like heat genies/system links etc... to connect two heat sources in a safe manor, I have seen more than one heating system destroyed by getting things wrong.


  • Options
    #3
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    airliebeach wrote: »
    I've just had a new oil fired boiler installed.
    Have an open fire back boiler.
    I'm trying to figure out how its all connected?
    As in, the 2 circulating pumps pumping in same direction or against?
    Is the non return valve on oil burner because the 2 pumps are pumping against each other?
    Should I have non return valve on back boiler also?
    Apparently there's a safety issue if power goes and pump stops, heat must be dispersed, some people suggest direct uninhibited line to cylinder, i think i have pipe straight up to expansion tank, Would this be typical?
    any feedback would be appreciated.

    Post a pic of the entire layout of the hotpress and we’ll see if it’s right


  • Options
    #4
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    I remember my dad's house.. If the central heating was on and you turned on the immersion, water started chugging out of the tank and down the stairs... I lived in fear of it.


  • Options
    #5
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Post a pic of the entire layout of the hotpress and we’ll see if it’s right

    Hello, finally getting back to this.
    Attached is my basic setup diagram.
    Not sure how back boiler and oil boiler are interconnected?

    All I know is oil boiler heats the rad from one side, the back boiler heats it from the other side. That is the flow and return seem to be reversed.
    Is that correct?
    Can someone post a pic of how they should be interconnected?
    Also, what is the pipe on the return of the backboiler, going up to the attic and just closed off up there, for?


  • Options
    #6
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Post a pic of the entire layout of the hotpress and we’ll see if it’s right

    Hello, finally getting back to this.
    Attached is my basic setup diagram.
    Not sure how back boiler and oil boiler are interconnected?

    All I know is oil boiler heats the rad from one side, the back boiler heats it from the other side. That is the flow and return seem to be reversed.
    Is that correct?
    Can someone post a pic of how they should be interconnected?
    Also, what is the pipe on the return of the backboiler, going up to the attic and just closed off up there, for?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Are you using your back boiler to heat your house with question marks? :)

    It’s open vented and non return valves seem in order. Is there some sort of switch that stops the oil boiler firing if the back boiler pump is running?


  • Options
    #8
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    airliebeach wrote: »
    Hello, finally getting back to this.
    Attached is my basic setup diagram.
    Not sure how back boiler and oil boiler are interconnected?

    All I know is oil boiler heats the rad from one side, the back boiler heats it from the other side. That is the flow and return seem to be reversed.
    Is that correct?
    Can someone post a pic of how they should be interconnected?
    Also, what is the pipe on the return of the backboiler, going up to the attic and just closed off up there, for?

    The non return valves are most certainly not right. There’s a lot wrong with that drawing.


  • Options
    #9
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    The non return valves are most certainly not right. There’s a lot wrong with that drawing.

    Typical boards post. What is wrong with the drawing? Apart from the return arrows on the boiler going backwards but I’m guessing that’s a mistake.


  • Options
    #10
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    BDI wrote: »
    Are you using your back boiler to heat your house with question marks? :)

    It’s open vented and non return valves seem in order. Is there some sort of switch that stops the oil boiler firing if the back boiler pump is running?
    Good few ? At the moment alright.
    Yes it's supposed to heat the house.
    AFAI there is no switch to stop the back boiler like that.


  • Options
    #11
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    The non return valves are most certainly not right. There’s a lot wrong with that drawing.

    What's wrong with non return valves?
    Can you tell me what else looks wrong so I can figure it out?
    Thanks.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    BDI wrote: »
    Typical boards post. What is wrong with the drawing? Apart from the return arrows on the boiler going backwards but I’m guessing that’s a mistake.

    Thanks but shouldn't the return direction be back into the boiler and the flow out of the boiler?


  • Options
    #13
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    airliebeach wrote: »
    Thanks but shouldn't the return direction be back into the boiler and the flow out of the boiler?

    Haha sorry I was looking at it upside down


  • Options
    #14
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    My main problem is that the oil boiler cuts out after a few minutes. So I'm guessing the heated water is not being moved around system for some reason.
    Any suggestions why this might be?

    While investigating, I noticed that one of the rads is heated from one side with oil boiler and the other side from back boiler... Weird right?


  • Options
    #15
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    airliebeach wrote: »
    My main problem is that the oil boiler cuts out after a few minutes. So I'm guessing the heated water is not being moved around system for some reason.
    Any suggestions why this might be?

    While investigating, I noticed that one of the rads is heated from one side with oil boiler and the other side from back boiler... Weird right?

    If that rad is being heated by the flow from both boilers it won’t heat all that much.


  • Options
    #16
    airliebeach
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭airliebeach


    BDI wrote: »
    If that rad is being heated by the flow from both boilers it won’t heat all that much.

    Exactly, when both are running, there must be a conflict...


  • Options
    #17
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    BDI wrote: »
    Typical boards post. What is wrong with the drawing? Apart from the return arrows on the boiler going backwards but I’m guessing that’s a mistake.

    Ok genius, seeing it at a 2 second glance I can see there is no gravity circuit. There’s a non return valve Beside the back boiler, making the back boiler essentially a bomb, and it’s a combined feed and expansion setup too. All wrong. Now, that’s only 2 seconds. If I get a chance I’ll take a proper look.


  • Options
    #18
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭jimf


    airliebeach wrote: »
    My main problem is that the oil boiler cuts out after a few minutes. So I'm guessing the heated water is not being moved around system for some reason.
    Any suggestions why this might be?

    While investigating, I noticed that one of the rads is heated from one side with oil boiler and the other side from back boiler... Weird right?

    is this from cold with no back boiler running


  • Options
    #19
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭jimf


    BDI wrote: »
    Typical boards post. What is wrong with the drawing? Apart from the return arrows on the boiler going backwards but I’m guessing that’s a mistake.

    can you elaborate please on what a typical boards post is

    a lot of us on here give of our time freely to help others with our maybe limited knowledge

    most of the time we get positive reports back

    hopefully your opinion is yours only


  • Options
    #20
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    jimf wrote: »
    can you elaborate please on what a typical boards post is

    a lot of us on here give of our time freely to help others with our maybe limited knowledge

    most of the time we get positive reports back

    hopefully your opinion is yours only

    It would be typical that somebody comes along and says something is wrong but doesn’t bother to say why.


  • Options
    #21
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Ok genius, seeing it at a 2 second glance I can see there is no gravity circuit. There’s a non return valve Beside the back boiler, making the back boiler essentially a bomb, and it’s a combined feed and expansion setup too. All wrong. Now, that’s only 2 seconds. If I get a chance I’ll take a proper look.

    The feed and expansion tank come off the flow side of the back boiler. I would say having a non return valve on the return side would not make it any less of a bomb than before. Ok I agree we could take the feed tank into the return between the non return valve and the boiler return but that’s why we are here, to share knowledge.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭jimf


    the typical ans to anybody with a combined heating system that incorporates a back boiler would be to get a professional that knows and understands how the 2 can be combined to work safely

    a back boiler not installed properly without an unobstructed gravity circuit is not something you mess with


  • Options
    #23
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    BDI wrote: »
    The feed and expansion tank come off the flow side of the back boiler. I would say having a non return valve on the return side would not make it any less of a bomb than before. Ok I agree we could take the feed tank into the return between the non return valve and the boiler return but that’s why we are here, to share knowledge.

    I think you’d be best off not sharing your lack of knowledge on here. Someone in the future might read your advice and think it’s ok to do what you suggested.


  • Options
    #24
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    I think you’d be best off not sharing your lack of knowledge on here. Someone in the future might read your advice and think it’s ok to do what you suggested.

    I openly admit I’ve little experience with back boilers. You seem to just want to call people’s lack of experience out to show your superiority instead offering the op advise on how not to blow himself up.

    Why post on this forum if not to share your knowledge?


  • Options
    #25
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    BDI wrote: »
    I openly admit I’ve little experience with back boilers. You seem to just want to call people’s lack of experience out to show your superiority input offering the op advise on how not to blow himself up.

    Why post on this forum if not to share your knowledge?

    If you’ve little experience with back Boilers then don’t be offering dangerous advice. You’re the one who questioned my knowledge by claiming there was nothing wrong with the drawing when I said there was plenty wrong. I have no notions of superiority but I’ll always shut down dangerous advice when I see it simply because somebody reading it in future might actually read it and put it in to practice.
    I said clearly a few posts ago that when I get a chance I’ll take a proper look at the drawing and that’s when I’ll offer advice.


  • Options
    #26
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    airliebeach wrote: »
    Hello, finally getting back to this.
    Attached is my basic setup diagram.
    Not sure how back boiler and oil boiler are interconnected?

    All I know is oil boiler heats the rad from one side, the back boiler heats it from the other side. That is the flow and return seem to be reversed.
    Is that correct?
    Can someone post a pic of how they should be interconnected?
    Also, what is the pipe on the return of the backboiler, going up to the attic and just closed off up there, for?

    -Ok op, getting back to this now. The blue line going to the attic from the pump, what’s happening there, it seems to terminate in the open attic?

    - combined feed and vent in the attic is incorrect.

    - there should be absolutely no non return valve on the primary circuit. Especially where it is!

    -there’s no gravity circuit from the back boiler to the cylinder.

    - there should be a dual coil cylinder installed but this isn’t absolutely necessary once the solid fuel is piped correctly to the cylinder. Using a single coil just means that the oil heating won’t heat the domestic hot water.

    There’s also a valve on the coil return. That’s an absolute no no.

    Long story short op, you need a professional to sort this out. It’s not a diy job.


  • Options
    #27
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    If you’ve little experience with back Boilers then don’t be offering dangerous advice. You’re the one who questioned my knowledge by claiming there was nothing wrong with the drawing when I said there was plenty wrong. I have no notions of superiority but I’ll always shut down dangerous advice when I see it simply because somebody reading it in future might actually read it and put it in to practice.
    I said clearly a few posts ago that when I get a chance I’ll take a proper look at the drawing and that’s when I’ll offer advice.

    I never questioned your advice I asked you to elaborate.


  • Options
    #28
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    BDI wrote: »
    Typical boards post. What is wrong with the drawing? Apart from the return arrows on the boiler going backwards but I’m guessing that’s a mistake.

    Judging by the tone of your post and stating that only the arrows were wrong, then yes, you were questioning my knowledge.


  • Options
    #29
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Judging by the tone of your post and stating that only the arrows were wrong, then yes, you were questioning my knowledge.

    Surely you could have drew a picture by now instead of trying to have an internet fight with me, do you want me to draw my picture? Of what I’d do?


  • Options
    #30
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    BDI wrote: »
    Surely you could have drew a picture by now instead of trying to have an internet fight with me, do you want me to draw my picture? Of what I’d do?

    Seeing as you think the nrv is grand I’d say no. I’m sure you could google correct way to do it and look all clever. The op is not a plumber and I’m not going to show a diyer(no offence op) how to attempt such a project


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BDI wrote: »
    Surely you could have drew a picture by now instead of trying to have an internet fight with me, do you want me to draw my picture? Of what I’d do?

    Why don’t you.

    Also if you could stay away from winding up other posters that would be nice.


Advertisement