Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

purpleisafruit · 27-05-2021 1:32pm

phog wrote: »

Seems to be a change in the ref for tomorrow's game

I really dislike Adamson's refereeing style. Jury is still out on Brace as he tends to be tougher on Munster to counteract any potential bias accusation

Shaka Hislop · 27-05-2021 1:33pm

Ah let him at least blow his whistle before we tear him apart

yerrahbah · 27-05-2021 1:41pm

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Team's out! https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-named-munster-side-to-face-cardiff-blues-4/?fbclid=IwAR3376ztYyhnaFblum7u9y1hxvllDLLkcp6QyHWtAoZcGNVJ8xEWgMf30Ow#preview

Looking like we want to be out of sight early and make up for last game and then let some of the younger lads (and POM ) have a go

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.

I make this to be Tommy O'Donnell's second start of the season

Really like the look of that backline, Here's hoping for some dry weather

phog · 27-05-2021 1:45pm

purpleisafruit wrote: »

I really dislike Adamson's refereeing style. Jury is still out on Brace as he tends to be tougher on Munster to counteract any potential bias accusation

He was born in Cardiff

aloooof · 27-05-2021 1:59pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

I make this to be Tommy O'Donnell's second start of the season

Really like the look of that backline, Here's hoping for some dry weather

Joey and Casey’s first time starting together, I think? Looking forward to seeing that.

Needs must due to injury, but can’t say say I’ve seen 3 back rows on the bench all too often.

purpleisafruit · 27-05-2021 2:41pm

phog wrote: »

He was born in Cardiff

He might have been but he's an MAR member. He's usually a very good ref unlike his compatriot Dan Jones

Former Former Former · 27-05-2021 2:59pm

purpleisafruit wrote: »

He might have been but he's an MAR member. He's usually a very good ref unlike his compatriot Dan Jones

In two posts, you've slated three refs.

Who is a good ref, in your opinion?

theVersatile · 27-05-2021 5:17pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

In two posts, you've slated three refs.

Who is a good ref, in your opinion?

I mean, he did say Andy was a very good ref.

purpleisafruit · 28-05-2021 9:27am

Former Former Former wrote: »

In two posts, you've slated three refs.

Who is a good ref, in your opinion?

Andy is good, Frank is also good but can be card happy (although you couldn't argue against most of them). Luke Pearce, Matt Carley, Wayne Barnes all very good. Ben Whitehouse has improved significantly over the last year in my opinion.
I like Poite and Gauzere for the most part. Angus Gardner has been good any time I've seen him recently.
I have issues with the refs who are inconsistent, the ones who make different decisions for the same actions from game to game or even within games.

Former Former Former · 28-05-2021 10:39am

theVersatile wrote: »

I mean, he did say Andy was a very good ref.

No, he said he's "usually a good ref" except that he deliberately targets Munster. That is not a compliment. It's nonsense too.

phog · 28-05-2021 10:40am

Former Former Former wrote: »

No, he said he's "usually a good ref" except that he deliberately targets Munster. That is not a compliment. It's nonsense too.

No he didn't say that

Cookiemunster · 28-05-2021 10:42am

Rhys Marshalls departure (and return to NZ) finally confirmed.
https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/28/marshall-to-depart-munster/

Eod100 · 28-05-2021 10:42am

Marshall leaving at end of season. https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1398212456628039684?s=19

Former Former Former · 28-05-2021 10:42am

phog wrote: »

No he didn't say that

Get up the yard, will ya.

"Jury is still out on Brace as he tends to be tougher on Munster to counteract any potential bias accusation"

How else could you read that?

I'll rephrase, how else could a reasonable person without a persecution complex read that?

thomond2006 · 28-05-2021 10:46am

Diarmuid Barron 2022
Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Niall Scannell 2023

Scott Buckley Year 1

James French 2022
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022
Josh Wycherley 2023

Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
John Ryan 2022
Roman Salanoa 2022

Thomas Ahern 2023
Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jason Jenkins 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2023

Cian Hurley Year 1
Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2

Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Jack Daly 2022
John Hodnett 2023
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023

Alex Kendellen Year 1

Craig Casey 2023
Neil Cronin 2023
Conor Murray 2022
Rowan Osborne 2022

Joey Carbery 2022
Jack Crowley 2023
Jake Flannery 2022
Ben Healy 2022

Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2022
Rory Scannell 2023

Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2022
Shane Daly 2023
Keith Earls 2022
Seán French 2022
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2023
Calvin Nash 2023
Simon Zebo 2022

Conor Phillips Year 1
Jonathan Wren Year 3

2021/22 NIEs:
Jason Jenkins (capped), RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped)

IN: Jason Jenkins (LK, Toyota Verblitz), Rowan Osborne (SH, Leinster), Simon Zebo (B3, Racing 92)
OUT: Eoghan Clarke (HK, Jersey Reds), Rhys Marshall (HK, TBC) James Cronin (PR, TBC), Billy Holland (LK, retirement), Tommy O'Donnell (BR, retirement), CJ Stander (BR, retirement), Nick McCarthy (SH, Leinster), JJ Hanrahan (FH, Clermont Auvergne), Darren Sweetnam (B3, La Rochelle)

theVersatile · 28-05-2021 11:08am

Former Former Former wrote: »

No, he said he's "usually a good ref" except that he deliberately targets Munster. That is not a compliment. It's nonsense too.

Using quotation marks and not exactly quoting what the guy said is fairly gas stuff. He also replied to your question with a number of referees who he considers to be "good" - so there isn't really much point in continuing the argument.

Purist98 · 28-05-2021 11:20am

Any idea what will happen with Wren?

phog · 28-05-2021 11:49am

Former Former Former wrote: »

Get up the yard, will ya.

"Jury is still out on Brace as he tends to be tougher on Munster to counteract any potential bias accusation"

How else could you read that?

I'll rephrase, how else could a reasonable person without a persecution complex read that?

Try using the quotation correctly next time rather trying to have a cut of a poster.

theVersatile · 28-05-2021 12:03pm

Purist98 wrote: »

Any idea what will happen with Wren?

Hard to see him get a break at this stage with our back three depth, Zebo returning, and the fact that all of our Academy promotions seem to have already been announced.

Wonder if he could head into the 7s scene and try and make a name for himself there.

tommycahir · 28-05-2021 12:05pm

Any idea what the story is with Patterson? I thought his spell with Munster was over but I seen him listed on the last injury update so maybe he is sticking around?
Which wouldn't be the worst as with Murray and Casey likely to be in Irish squads that leaves us with Cronin and Osborne as SH cover which would be pretty thin tbh.

thomond2006 · 28-05-2021 12:10pm

Patterson won't remain I'd say. 4 senior SHs is enough and perhaps Ethan Coughlan will get an academy spot.

When Zebo was signed, it was clear that the budget was used.

shootermacg · 28-05-2021 1:44pm

phog wrote: »

Try using the quotation correctly next time rather trying to have a cut of a poster.

Wall of text incoming about how you should never question his authority and how his aunt actually does have a pair of Benjamin's.

Former Former Former · 28-05-2021 1:53pm

Berating the officials after every single game - win or lose - is par for the course for a small minority of Munster fans. It's par for the course and I don't kid myself that reasonable discourse is going to have any effect.

But saying that a given ref is intentionally harder on Munster is a special kind of delusional paranoia and it's not fair on the ref in question.

Do ye really need to convince yourselves of these things lads? You can't really believe it.

phog · 28-05-2021 1:54pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Berating the officials after every single game - win or lose - is par for the course for a small minority of Munster fans. It's par for the course and I don't kid myself that reasonable discourse is going to have any effect.

But saying that a given ref is intentionally harder on Munster is a special kind of delusional paranoia and it's not fair on the ref in question.

Do ye really need to convince yourselves of these things lads? You can't really believe it.

Nice side swerve there

thomond2006 · 28-05-2021 1:56pm

Brace told Sexton to shut up.

He can whistle Munster off the park for all I care.

sprucemoose · 28-05-2021 2:01pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Berating the officials after every single game - win or lose - is par for the course for a small minority of Munster fans.

i know alot of the time its sour grapes, but in fairness the quality of referees in the pro14 and at times even in europe is fairly shocking.some of the best are irish unfortunately and so the irish teams tend to suffer as a result (imo anyway)

Former Former Former · 28-05-2021 2:15pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Brace told Sexton to shut up.

He can whistle Munster off the park for all I care.

I heard Brace texted Sexton afterwards to apologise and told him he'd make it up to him in the next Munster v Leinster game by really going to town on Munster, and that Sexton replied "lolzers, see if you can make O'Mahony pull that face again, that cracks me up".

Then they added Reggie Corrigan to the group and sure the bantz were off the charts.

aloooof · 28-05-2021 2:29pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Berating the officials after every single game - win or lose - is par for the course for a small minority of Munster fans. It's par for the course and I don't kid myself that reasonable discourse is going to have any effect.

But saying that a given ref is intentionally harder on Munster is a special kind of delusional paranoia and it's not fair on the ref in question.

Do ye really need to convince yourselves of these things lads? You can't really believe it.

I don't think Munster fans in particular are any better, or worse, than any other set of fans when it comes to referees, tbh.

phog · 28-05-2021 2:50pm

sprucemoose wrote: »

i know alot of the time its sour grapes, but in fairness the quality of referees in the pro14 and at times even in europe is fairly shocking.some of the best are irish unfortunately and so the irish teams tend to suffer as a result (imo anyway)

It seems to be acceptable for fans to say negative stuff about players or coaches but there's a certain preciousness from a few posters when it comes to having a negative comment about a ref, even when it's blatantly obvious the ref made a error.

Former Former Former · 28-05-2021 4:01pm

aloooof wrote: »

I don't think Munster fans in particular are any better, or worse, than any other set of fans when it comes to referees, tbh.

No, I'm not saying they are, the tiny minority is really only one poster. And this isn't about criticism of refs, it's about saying that a given ref has it in for a given team. Or attacking someone who says that maybe that's an unfair assertion.

Maybe I'm too old for this "Internet" thing but that's a level of bitterness I can't even comprehend tbh. The ref's job has never been harder and they're all doing their best.

OldRio · 28-05-2021 8:01pm

Well this Cardiff game is rather poor esp Munster.

Ignore, just seen match thread

razorblunt · 29-05-2021 7:11am

Former Former Former wrote: »

No, I'm not saying they are, the tiny minority is really only one poster. And this isn't about criticism of refs, it's about saying that a given ref has it in for a given team. Or attacking someone who says that maybe that's an unfair assertion.

Maybe I'm too old for this "Internet" thing but that's a level of bitterness I can't even comprehend tbh. The ref's job has never been harder and they're all doing their best.

Just on the ref note, two things:

1. I thought Brace did well to walk Cardiff back 10 twice for chatting back. The refs have gone too much into the “mates” side of things in my opinion and it’s time they took back control

2. The TMO really needs to stop tip toeing around decisions, if they think (for example) the ball never left the ruck then say that don’t just sit there and say “I need you to look at this again”.

sydthebeat · 29-05-2021 9:16am

razorblunt wrote: »

Just on the ref note, two things:

1. I thought Brace did well to walk Cardiff back 10 twice for chatting back. The refs have gone too much into the “mates” side of things in my opinion and it’s time they took back control

2. The TMO really needs to stop tip toeing around decisions, if they think (for example) the ball never left the ruck then say that don’t just sit there and say “I need you to look at this again”.

I don't think the TMO is actually allowed make decisions though. All they can do is ask the ref of they are still happy that their interpretation is correct. Therefore the TMO last night asked Brace twice if he was happy that the ball left the ruck. Now maybe Brace didn't understand the point of the question, but he responded twice by saying 'he's kicked it back into the ruck' implying that it had left the ruck in his eyes.

stephen_n · 29-05-2021 9:17am

razorblunt wrote: »

Just on the ref note, two things:

1. I thought Brace did well to walk Cardiff back 10 twice for chatting back. The refs have gone too much into the “mates” side of things in my opinion and it’s time they took back control

2. The TMO really needs to stop tip toeing around decisions, if they think (for example) the ball never left the ruck then say that don’t just sit there and say “I need you to look at this again”.

He asked him twice if he was sure the ball left the ruck. It was fairly clear and obvious what he was saying but Brace choose to ignore him. He had made his mind up and wasn’t listening. Which was pretty much the same with all the TMO decisions. Brace watched the footage and made his mind up based on that, pretty much disregarding the TMO.

Buer · 29-05-2021 9:39am

The referee is in charge. He makes the final decision. I don't think it helps that the TMO and referee are broadcast live. They walk a tight rope in terms of not wanting to undermine one another on a live broadcast. I imagine they could have far more honest and useful exchanges if they weren't aware tens of thousands of people are listening to them.

purpleisafruit · 29-05-2021 9:43am

Former Former Former wrote: »

No, he said he's "usually a good ref" except that he deliberately targets Munster. That is not a compliment. It's nonsense too.

Referees, just like players, go through patches of form. Some weeks they're good, others they're not so good. In the same way that we can criticize the performance of a player, we're also allowed to criticize the performance of a referee but continue on with your snarky comments about my opinions if that makes you happy.
This has nothing to do with decisions for or against Munster. I'm concerned more with consistency in application of the laws of the game. It should be reasonable for a player to believe that if they do X, the referee should do Y. I think nobody benefits when the consequence of X is sometimes Y, sometimes Z and sometimes A depending on scoreline/time left in the game or some other random factor.

stephen_n · 29-05-2021 12:31pm

purpleisafruit wrote: »

Referees, just like players, go through patches of form. Some weeks they're good, others they're not so good. In the same way that we can criticize the performance of a player, we're also allowed to criticize the performance of a referee but continue on with your snarky comments about my opinions if that makes you happy.
This has nothing to do with decisions for or against Munster. I'm concerned more with consistency in application of the laws of the game. It should be reasonable for a player to believe that if they do X, the referee should do Y. I think nobody benefits when the consequence of X is sometimes Y, sometimes Z and sometimes A depending on scoreline/time left in the game or some other random factor.

It’s also reasonable to believe that after each game a referee is assessed. Therefore there will be changes in their interpretation from game to game. All we can really expect is consistency in a game. Which we don’t always get.

phog · 29-05-2021 11:27pm

Unfortunately, Connacht did us no favours tonight. We need them to beat Ospreys next week and Ospreys then to beat Benneton. Then hope Leinster beat Glasgow and we get a BPO win over Zebre.

I think that's it

thomond2006 · 29-05-2021 11:29pm

Our Western friends are doing their best to feck this up for us and we give them so many players! :pac:

I think Munster are still favourites to qualify but I'm concerned that Ospreys will phone it in against Benetton. If Benetton run the table, so be it. It would be a fantastic achievement considering how they couldn't buy a win (sometimes through self-inflicted errors) in the Pro14.

Eod100 · 29-05-2021 11:33pm

phog wrote: »

Unfortunately, Connacht did us no favours tonight. We need them to beat Ospreys next week and Ospreys then to beat Benneton. Then hope Leinster beat Glasgow and we get a BPO win over Zebre.

I think that's it

We have a healthy PD so think TBP for us main concern. Need Benetton to lose alright but unless other teams get tbps and massive wins should be ok.

Tomtom364 · 30-05-2021 1:25am

Munster have a 30 point lead on Ospreys.
So we actually want Ospreys to beat Connacht Next week with a TBP so that they go in to the game against Treviso with a chance or taking the no.1 spot.
now, it would be a slim chance, but its better then them heading in to a dead rubber and letting Treviso get the win.

Must say, fair play to Treviso managing to get some wins together and its Munster's own fault for their poor preformance against Connacht putting them in the position they are in. But it is a bit of a shambles that Treviso could get to the final having got to play Zebre twice.

If you compare the fixtures of the two teams using a combined table of the 2020/2021 pro14 results.
Munster - Treviso
Connacht - Connacht = Same
Zebre - Zebre = Same
Cardiff - Ospreys = Similar Cardiff ranked 7th Ospreys ranked 6th

But then

Leinster - Zebre = No brainer 1st vs 11th
Ulster - Glasgow = No brainer 2nd vs 8th

theVersatile · 30-05-2021 12:47pm

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1398748802350211075?s=19

Sweetnam off the mark in La ROGchelle

sprucemoose · 31-05-2021 9:15am

stephen_n wrote: »

He asked him twice if he was sure the ball left the ruck. It was fairly clear and obvious what he was saying but Brace choose to ignore him. He had made his mind up and wasn’t listening.

from my knowledge of the laws the TMO was wrong though and brace was correct. whether the ball was actually out of the ruck is technically immaterial as any intentional action to move the ball forward/'into' the ruck is illegal. now, i get this is kinda inconsistent when you now have 9s rolling the ball a couple of metres to the back of a 'caterpillar' ruck, but thats a rant for a different day

stephen_n · 31-05-2021 9:27am

sprucemoose wrote: »

from my knowledge of the laws the TMO was wrong though and brace was correct. whether the ball was actually out of the ruck is technically immaterial as any intentional action to move the ball forward/'into' the ruck is illegal. now, i get this is kinda inconsistent when you now have 9s rolling the ball a couple of metres to the back of a 'caterpillar' ruck, but thats a rant for a different day

The law says “return the ball into the ruck” which would suggest it had to leave in the first place. Like all laws that’s open to interpretation. Mind you reading through that, shows exactly how many laws are broken in every single ruck during a game.

shootermacg · 31-05-2021 9:32am

stephen_n wrote: »

The law says “return the ball into the ruck” which would suggest it had to leave in the first place. Like all laws that’s open to interpretation. Mind you reading through that, shows exactly how many laws are broken in every single ruck during a game.

I suppose intent comes into it in these situations. The 9 himself, believed that ball to be out and chose to move it back in, which is cynical play.

Shaka Hislop · 01-06-2021 9:38am

Hospital waiting room time, just perusing an article about Tommy O'Donnell... I hadn't realised that Munster had offered him a 1 year extension & he decided to turn it down.

phog · 01-06-2021 4:13pm

MRSC have offered Season Tickets for members for the coming season.

Cookiemunster · 01-06-2021 4:16pm

phog wrote: »

MRSC have offered Season Tickets for members for the coming season.

And it confirms 9 homes games in the Pro16 and 2 in the CC. So the same CC format as last season and probably 18 regular season Pro16 games.

yerrahbah · 01-06-2021 4:19pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And it confirms 9 homes games in the Pro16 and 2 in the CC. So the same CC format as last season and probably 18 regular season Pro16 games.

I wouldnt say that just yet

We are basing our offering on the expanded league format with four former South African Super Rugby sides joining the tournament fully next season. Our European ticket options are based on the 2020/21 Champions Cup model with two home pool games as the tournament format for next season has not been finalised at this stage

Cookiemunster · 01-06-2021 4:24pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

I wouldnt say that just yet

Just saw that and was about to correct my post. I hadn't seen the full text when I posted.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Comments