Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

razorblunt · 14-05-2021 9:33pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

So frustrating for both teams I presume you mean, last Munster try clearly illegal as Holland well in front before maul set which really should have been picked up by Joy Neville along with some very questionable Jack O’Donoghue clear outs that should have been looked at and a pass ruled forward that was very likely to result in try which went backwards. Standers statement about playing against more than 15 is ridiculous.

Joy Neville is appalling, much more competent as a refere than a TMO and has been like this since the 6 Nations.

Akrasia · 14-05-2021 10:37pm

Ulster did us a favour tonight. We need 10 points from cardiff and Zebre and we're in a final (assuming Benetton don't get 11/12 points from last 3 games (and if they do, fair fu*ks to them and they deserve it))

Caranica · 15-05-2021 9:25am

razorblunt wrote: »

Joy Neville is appalling, much more competent as a refere than a TMO and has been like this since the 6 Nations.

She overcompensates when she's TMO on a Munster game, worse than Frank Murphy!

So frustrated watching last night's game. Ironic that it was former Munster players who really hurt us.

Akrasia · 15-05-2021 1:42pm

Caranica wrote: »

She overcompensates when she's TMO on a Munster game, worse than Frank Murphy!

So frustrated watching last night's game. Ironic that it was former Munster players who really hurt us.

She really shouldn’t be allowed to o referee games involving Munster. There’s a clear conflict of interest that will affect her decisions (not her fault, no referee should be allowed to officiate in a game involving a former team)

Lost Ormond · 15-05-2021 1:52pm

Akrasia wrote: »

She really shouldn’t be allowed to o referee games involving Munster. There’s a clear conflict of interest that will affect her decisions (not her fault, no referee should be allowed to officiate in a game involving a former team)

Very difficult in a cross country league which will see domestic refs do a lot of games in their country and around 75-80% of the high performance/high performance development group refs are from Munster/members of Munster Association of Referees.
Until that changes there almost always will be Munster officials involved in Munster games

FrannoFan · 15-05-2021 10:58pm

Only watched the game now. After the online narrative and stander comments that munster were somehow done by the ref I was expecting some horror show from the officials but they have been fine. Got the big calls right on the two disallowed tries. Pro14 is poorly officiated in general but this was not one of those particularly bad outings from the officials.

Sabre0001 · 17-05-2021 10:09am

No game this weekend to put things right. We'll likely see close to full strength for the remaining games in a bid to pick up BP wins and hope for the best elsewhere. I could see JJ getting game time ahead of Healy - while Healy is here next season and needs the mins, aside from kicking from hand and tee I think he's struggled in games (not just the Connacht game). Think JJ is more likely to contribute to the scoring of 4 tries.

Would still like to see Salanoa and Knox making appearances at TH, Wycherley at LH, Ahern if he can recover from injury, and Jack O'Sullivan who seems to have fallen down pecking order. Gallagher also needs mins it seems from the Conn game (although it wasn't a night to remember for the backline) - Haley definitely making the 15 jersey his own and most likely to play remaining two games.

thomond2006 · 17-05-2021 10:14am

I wouldn't play JJ again. We have Carbery as the starter and the likes of Healy are going to be the backups next season.

The players in the pack who are leaving didn't do enough to justify being included again either. We have close to a fully fit squad and don't need to use them.

sprucemoose · 17-05-2021 10:47am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I wouldn't play JJ again. We have Carbery as the starter and the likes of Healy are going to be the backups next season.

much as i think youre correct, i dont agree with carbery being the guaranteed starter. healy and crowley are potentially better players imo (already better 10s anyway) and i havent seen enough (yet anyway) from carbery to show him being a nailed on starter when fit

thomond2006 wrote: »

The players in the pack who are leaving didn't do enough to justify being included again either. We have close to a fully fit squad and don't need to use them.

in fairness to stander hes earned a final send off

Sabre0001 wrote: »

while Healy is here next season and needs the mins, aside from kicking from hand and tee I think he's struggled in games (not just the Connacht game).

he was mixed the last night but in fairness hes been shoved in and out of the team/bench since the european games and the lack of game-time showed. i think hes probably the best long-term option of the four current 10s (crowley could be it but we've barely seen him) but its hard to get anywhere without a bit of consistency

Caranica · 17-05-2021 11:33am

thomond2006 wrote: »

The players in the pack who are leaving didn't do enough to justify being included again either. We have close to a fully fit squad and don't need to use them.

Other than Cronin and Marshall scoring tries you mean?

Our lineout is a disaster at the moment and while Marshall wasn't fantastic in Friday, Scannell isn't either!

yerrahbah · 17-05-2021 11:50am

https://www.instagram.com/stories/rgsnyman/2575534564002112109/?hl=en

RG back running which is great news for SA ahead of the Lions

Rainbow Cup might be a bit too soon for him

Shaka Hislop · 17-05-2021 1:13pm

Snyman & Beirne as our starting locks..I don't think there's a partnership that excites me more in the NH for next season

greenkiwi1 · 17-05-2021 1:49pm

Caranica wrote: »

Other than Cronin and Marshall scoring tries you mean?

Our lineout is a disaster at the moment and while Marshall wasn't fantastic in Friday, Scannell isn't either!

If either KOB or Marshall had as much game time as Scannell they would probably be close to Irish camp selection. Kelleher has improved on his line out stats recently so that proves that this area of hooker can be changed for the good with regular game time.....

Shaka Hislop · 17-05-2021 2:15pm

I'm like a broken record...but Marshall is the one that got away...he had the best all around game of any of our hookers, was arguably the form hooker in the country 2 years ago, then injury and loss of form hit...and wham....it's al gone to pot.
I think there's a bit more to this story and we may get to hear it when he starts playing back in NZ next season

yerrahbah · 18-05-2021 11:04am

https://www.the42.ie/munster-7-5439224-May2021/

The team is on a down week and seemingly JVG is still intent on spreading game time across the squad.

37 players used across the three Rainbow Cup games so far

“As a group we said there are lads that are going to get opportunities in the coming few weeks; we are not going to vary from that just because we have lost the (Connacht) game,” said van Graan.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 11:48am

sad to see stephen fitzgerald has to retire. couldnt have seen him coming back to munster anytime soon but he always seemed solid for connacht

phog · 18-05-2021 11:54am

sprucemoose wrote: »

sad to see stephen fitzgerald has to retire. couldnt have seen him coming back to munster anytime soon but he always seemed solid for connacht

Yeah, harsh way to have end a career. People can be very hard on players at times but Fitz is a guy like many more who went to make a living from playing rugby and his livelihood is cut short through injury, his world just turned upside down. Gotta feel for players like him.

18-05-2021 1:54pm

James Cronin has announced hw is moving on from Munster this summer. No mention of where he is heading to.

phog · 18-05-2021 2:07pm

Esteban Teeny Corner wrote: »

James Cronin has announced hw is moving on from Munster this summer. No mention of where he is heading to.

Shame really, I always rated him but it's hardly a surprise at this stage that he's moving on.

I hope he gets a good club to continue with his playing career.

Squidgy Black · 18-05-2021 2:13pm

Munster could probably do with an NIQ loosehead to be honest, with Killer's age and the fact he'll be in the Irish squad, you're down to Loughman and O'Connor as the other two more experienced looseheads while French and Wycherley develop, which isn't great.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 2:16pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Munster could probably do with an NIQ loosehead to be honest, with Killer's age and the fact he'll be in the Irish squad, you're down to Loughman and O'Connor as the other two more experienced looseheads while French and Wycherley develop, which isn't great.

id say Wycherley has shown enough so far to trust him to start during irish camps etc,. if kilcoyne was out for a european game we might be in a bit of trouble but otherwise its probably no harm to just let some of the younger players get consistent gametime

Jump_In_Jack · 18-05-2021 2:20pm

Esteban Teeny Corner wrote: »

James Cronin has announced hw is moving on from Munster this summer. No mention of where he is heading to.

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

thomond2006 · 18-05-2021 2:32pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Munster could probably do with an NIQ loosehead to be honest, with Killer's age and the fact he'll be in the Irish squad, you're down to Loughman and O'Connor as the other two more experienced looseheads while French and Wycherley develop, which isn't great.

There's a more likely need for a NIE at hooker or TH. Kilcoyne is an international quality player and will hopefully maintain that standard for 2 seasons at least. Munster don't have that same level of player alongside him.

Squidgy Black · 18-05-2021 2:34pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

Sweetnam signed his last extension in 2018, which would've only been a few months after his Ireland caps in the autumn internationals, so it probably would've been a big bump from his last contract but since he's been out of the running since then I'd say his value would have dropped a fair amount and could've just been the two sides way off in valuation.

Cronin on the other hand hasn't had a cap in 5 years so would say it's probably a different scenario there in terms of his age and just the budget overall

Cookiemunster · 18-05-2021 2:35pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

They (along with JJ and most likely Marshall) were the unlucky ones who were out of contract during the pandemic. The contract renewals were always going to go to the internationals and younger players. There is a limited budget and players who weren't going to 'push on' to any higher a level were always the ones in danger.
In non Covid times I'd have expected them all to be offered contracts.

Cookiemunster · 18-05-2021 2:37pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sweetnam signed his last extension in 2018, which would've only been a few months after his Ireland caps in the autumn internationals, so it probably would've been a big bump from his last contract but since he's been out of the running since then I'd say his value would have dropped a fair amount and could've just been the two sides way off in valuation.

Cronin on the other hand hasn't had a cap in 5 years so would say it's probably a different scenario there in terms of his age and just the budget overall

Sweetnam wasn't offered a contract. That was confirmed when it was announced he was leaving. JJ wasn't offered a contract either.

yerrahbah · 18-05-2021 3:10pm

Shame, as he was having one of his best if not his best season for Munster.

He was a genuine jackal threat also.

As was already mentioned he was unlucky that his contract was up this year.

It could have been easily Loughman or O'Connor who was leaving.

With Wycherley and French getting contracts that brought us to 6 senior LHs in the squad and then it was always unlikely that he would be retained.

I cant see us signing anyone ahead of next season, so we will need one of the LHs other than Killer to push on and become a European standard LH rather than a decent Pro14/16 LH.

As an aside Tommy O'Donnell was offered a contract but turned it down

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40284302.html

FrannoFan · 18-05-2021 3:27pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Sweetnam wasn't offered a contract. That was confirmed when it was announced he was leaving. JJ wasn't offered a contract either.

JJ was offered a 50k pay cut.
Claremont looked very generous by comparison no doubt.

sprucemoose · 18-05-2021 3:33pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

JJ was offered a 50k pay cut.
Claremont looked very generous by comparison no doubt.

it probably works out best for everyone:
carbery is (undeservedly imo but thats a different story) a definite starter for big games when fit.
he was unlikely to break into the irish squad due to not being the youngest
he was still probably going to play a decent amount but was always most likely going to be seen as a stop gap
healy and crowley were probably going to start eating into his gametime all the same

shame as he could have been the long term ROG replacement if he had built on what he had shown underage and in his early career. as harsh as it is i do think foley stunted his development by persisting with keatley (much as he improved towards the end of his munster career)

Kirk Van Houten · 18-05-2021 8:52pm

Munster did look to sign a NIQ hooker but were told no by the IRFU.

thomond2006 · 20-05-2021 5:20pm

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/20/nine-academy-players-promoted-to-senior-squad/

9 promoted players in one off-season is pretty remarkable.

Sabre0001 · 20-05-2021 5:38pm

Bit of a backlog at OH/FB again all of a sudden. Looking forward to seeing more of the nine players in the coming years.

Squidgy Black · 20-05-2021 5:52pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/20/nine-academy-players-promoted-to-senior-squad/

9 promoted players in one off-season is pretty remarkable.

Plenty of one year deals is interesting enough. Gives a few lads plenty to play for next season

yerrahbah · 21-05-2021 9:08am

https://twitter.com/rugby_ap/status/1395627364940500993

Pretty busy Springbok schedule in the Autumn

Looks like we will be without DDA, Snyman and possibly even Jenkins for the start of the season

thomond2006 · 21-05-2021 9:32am

IIRC the Pro16 will start in October.
If Europe's pool stages continue in a trimmed down format then I assume those games will be played in December and January.

yerrahbah · 21-05-2021 11:12am

Ah fair enough,

Still a long season for someone like DDA

Being without the Irish internationals and our Springboks for a few weekends in November will give the younger lads a great chance to impress

Shaka Hislop · 24-05-2021 4:29pm

Ex Munster winger Gerhard Van den Heever who was actually IQ before he left, is looking to be capped against Ireland this summer
He's now qualified for Japan and has been named in the squad for the summer games

PTH2009 · 24-05-2021 4:53pm

Let's hope that Connacht loss doesn't come back go haunt is

Am I right in thinking we can't afford any more defeats if we want to get that north vs South final place

thomond2006 · 25-05-2021 11:17am

Unavailable: Thomas Ahern (illness), Chris Farrell (groin), Conor Murray (leg), Roman Salanoa (ankle), Neil Cronin (knee), RG Snyman (knee).

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/25/squad-update-pre-cardiff-blues-2/

Sabre0001 · 25-05-2021 3:03pm

Salanoa and Ahern just don't seem to have any luck. Really disappointing, would have been good to see them in action!

Shaka Hislop · 25-05-2021 3:41pm

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Salanoa and Ahern just don't seem to have any luck. Really disappointing, would have been good to see them in action!

It's to be expected with Ahern, he's still filling out, and will take another few years to do so...in the meantime, ankle and knee injuries will happen frequently enough.
I expect him to be used sparingly next season, and for the following season to be a starter

phog · 26-05-2021 1:51pm

The officials for our game v Cardiff on Friday evening are

Referee: Mike Adamson (SRU, 53rd competition game)

Assistant Referees: Rob O'Sullivan, Nigel Correll (both IRFU)

TMO: Olly Hodges (IRFU)

yerrahbah · 27-05-2021 7:29am

I'd hope the likes of J.Wycherley, Knox, O'Sullivan, Crowley and L.Coombes are in the 23 this weekend.

The Blues are quite good at the breakdown, so maybe starting Cloete would help protect our ball.

Rigor Mortis · 27-05-2021 7:30am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope that Connacht loss doesn't come back go haunt is

Am I right in thinking we can't afford any more defeats if we want to get that north vs South final place

Arguably you cant afford to drop any points let alone any defeats. A defeat would definitely be fatal

Burkie1203 · 27-05-2021 7:37am

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1397503685882679297?s=19

Former Former Former · 27-05-2021 8:28am

Amend the rules, make it less attractive for guys to stay in Ireland, thus defeating the point of the scheme in the first place.

Sounds like a plan.

Sabre0001 · 27-05-2021 8:32am

He said he could play on for a few more years. That's better than him running himself into the ground and ending up like Dylan Hartley (or others) who seems to be half crippled. Don't see why ROC is making the tax incentive an issue (has he previously had issues with project players, for example, I haven't read much because of the paywalls).

Same site years ago (from Googling tax Ireland rugby) had a story about how this helped keep some of Ireland's biggest stars playing here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tax-breaks-helped-to-keep-our-biggest-stars-at-home-29297107.html

Sabre0001 · 27-05-2021 1:12pm

Team's out! https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-named-munster-side-to-face-cardiff-blues-4/?fbclid=IwAR3376ztYyhnaFblum7u9y1hxvllDLLkcp6QyHWtAoZcGNVJ8xEWgMf30Ow#preview

Looking like we want to be out of sight early and make up for last game and then let some of the younger lads (and POM

) have a go

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.

Squidgy Black · 27-05-2021 1:28pm

Sabre0001 wrote: »

He said he could play on for a few more years. That's better than him running himself into the ground and ending up like Dylan Hartley (or others) who seems to be half crippled. Don't see why ROC is making the tax incentive an issue (has he previously had issues with project players, for example, I haven't read much because of the paywalls).

Same site years ago (from Googling tax Ireland rugby) had a story about how this helped keep some of Ireland's biggest stars playing here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tax-breaks-helped-to-keep-our-biggest-stars-at-home-29297107.html

If anything it probably goes against any project player arguments that they may have, players choosing to retire and finish their career in Ireland as opposed to if CJ had left Munster and gone to played for the Bulls there would've been a section of people saying that he's showing no loyalty and was here only for the money etc.

phog · 27-05-2021 1:29pm

Seems to be a change in the ref for tomorrow's game

Simon Thomas @simonrug

It appears that the IRFU's Andrew Brace will be the referee for Munster v Cardiff Blues at Thomond Park tomorrow night, not Scotland's Mike Adamson as was originally listed.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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