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ECCE question

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  • 10-06-2019 9:28am
    #1
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭


    I've searched but haven't seen this answered before...

    My son is due to start primary in Sept 2021 when he'll be over 4.5.
    I naively assumed he'd get the 2 years ECCE in the 2 years prior to this.

    He was born in Jan 2017 and so according to this table won't be eligible for ECCE this year
    Birth date between Eligible Enrolment date(s) ECCE end date
    1st January 2016 - 31st December 2016 1st September 2019 + 1st September 2020 June 2021
    1st January 2017 - 31st December 2017 1st September 2020 + 1st September 2021 June 2022

    We'll therefore only get one year of ECCE - this seems unfair.

    Is there any leeway on these dates?


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    #2
    coffeyt
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    Unfortunately he is that awkward birth month but he is entitled to 2 years ECCE starting Sept 2020 and Sept 2021 which means he would be 5 and a half starting school but it's your choice whether to send him to big school earlier if you want.

    I knew a girl whose birthday is 3rd January and she was refused starting the ecce last September so they seem very strict on the cut off dates.


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    #3
    Lisha
    Registered Users Posts: 8,693 ✭✭✭Lisha


    A friend’s son was 3/01 also and she wrote letter appealing it as she felt he would be too young at 4.5 and she was successful.
    This was st start of ecce so it may be stricter now...


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    #4
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,042 ✭✭✭✭neris


    He may get it for 2 years but will be a year later going to school.

    (Booze up & brewery comes to mind when thinking about the state bodies that arrange this scheme)


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    #5
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Seems odd.
    You could pay for him in the playschool from Sept-Jan 2020, then he will be in ECCE after that for two years?Or else start him in ECCE in Sept 2020 and he should get two full years then?That is how I understand it to work??


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    #6
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    Thanks for all the replies

    To clarify a few points raised:
    • He will get the 2 years he's entitled to if we send him to school at 5 years & 7.5 months (which is a bit old compared to when his siblings started).
    • If he was born 3 weeks earlier we'd get the two years starting this year
    • He's in creche now so we'll still have to pay but they said it's worth €2451 off my annual bill when he gets it

    I contacted the Dept of Children & Youth Affairs & their response was basically "that's the way it is".

    They pointed be towards the National Childcare Scheme website that comes into effect in October when I'll get a whopping :rolleyes: 50c per hour towards by childcare up to a max of €20 per week.
    We're part time so I think we'll get €12.50 a week.

    Above is universal - you can get more but it's means tested so we won't.

    Daft system
    Makes it totally unfair IMO


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    #7
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    shesty wrote: »
    Seems odd.
    You could pay for him in the playschool from Sept-Jan 2020, then he will be in ECCE after that for two years?Or else start him in ECCE in Sept 2020 and he should get two full years then?That is how I understand it to work??

    Sorry missed this point
    You can only onboard for the ECCE in Sept.
    They used to allow starting at 3 times a year but Zappone in her wisdom got rid of that :eek:


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    #8
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    OP here
    If anyone stumbles into this thread in the future the below link asks why they got rid of the 3 entry points for ECCE as opposed to 1
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-04-16/510/

    The real reason is they know it'll work out cheaper as situations like mine won't be able to take the 2nd year


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    #9
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    Another question on it for someone in a very similar position to me

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-03-05/494/


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    #10
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Frash my son was born in January 2014 and I am sending him to school September 2019. The extra year has really stood to him. No regrets whatsoever.

    If he had gone last year he would of been in younger end of year....something like 12th youngest out of 60.
    Not that I am sporty or anything but the sports he plays use January 1st to divide the ages so he will be playing on the same team as the majority of his year group.


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    #11
    pooch90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,371 ✭✭✭pooch90


    My first boy is a Jan 2016 baby. He missed out on starting last Sept by 18 days. He will go this Sept at 3 and 8 months. Do his two ECCE years and then start school at 5.8. I'm more than happy with this. As more children start doing the two years that bit older, the average age in the JI class will increase sp they won't be the oldest by any means.
    I'm a primary teacher and have taught SI for the past 8 years. I would always advise parents (especially of boys) to start them at 5 rather than 4. Take the two years of Montessori to learn life skills and explore the Aistear curriculum etc. It will really stand to them when the big bad world of 'sit and pay attention' type schooling is introduced.


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    #12
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    My other kids started at 4.5 and got on grand but I take the last 2 points on board.

    The fairest thing would be to just let parents choose the timing of the 2 years they take.

    The government know the current way saves them money though while still saying every kid is "entitled" to 2 years ECCE.


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    #13
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    I think this will come back to bite Zappone in the ar$e because if people are sending children to school older (ie: 6 in the Jan after starting Jun Infants) then the whole junior infant curriculum will need to be looked at and this has a knock on effect for the other classes. Almost 6 year olds will prob have a good idea of colours, names of letters, numbers etc (not all but most). April would have been a much better cut off point.

    Just to add my second child is a Jan baby and she will be going at 4yr 9months.


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    #14
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    A January child will go to school on 1st on September or whatever date it starts at 4 years and 7/8 months or 5 years and 7/8 months.

    My own son knew his colours before starting his first year of montessori at 2 years and 7.5 months.
    He was under first extension of ECCE whereby it kicked in on 1st April after his 3rd Birthday. He is using early readers and writing his name now and in his 3rd year of montessori.

    He will be starting school on September 2nd at 5 years months and 2 weeks. The yard will be a massive change for him with 75 Junior Infant children.
    I am a secondary school teacher myself, I can only see benefits being that bit older making subject/career choices.


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    #15
    annoyedgal
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭annoyedgal


    My boy is the 1st of January and missed it by a matter of hours! It's a hard pill to swallow. Primary teacher myself and undecided about when to start him. I'll see how the year pans out for him but totally agree the new system sucks!


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    #16
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    annoyedgal wrote: »
    My boy is the 1st of January and missed it by a matter of hours! It's a hard pill to swallow. Primary teacher myself and undecided about when to start him. I'll see how the year pans out for him but totally agree the new system sucks!

    Oh wow - that's a tough break alright.


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    #17
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    I emailed Katherine Zappone's dept amd appealed to them to consider an April cut off point. January is too early.
    Might be piddling against the wind but worth a try.


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    #18
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    heldel00 wrote: »
    I emailed Katherine Zappone's dept amd appealed to them to consider an April cut off point. January is too early.
    Might be piddling against the wind but worth a try.

    I've emailed her too and also my 4 local TDs.

    2 of them have raised it before (links above) and one will raise it.

    The other one is Marie Bailey....
    I thought she might "swing" it for me as she needs to win back voters but got no reply.


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    #19
    detoxkid
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭detoxkid


    My daughter is the 2nd of January and like you I have been in contact with Katherine zappone, got no where , then another TD, also got no where. It's totally unfair. I paid to send my daughter to preschool anyway so that she gets two years preschool


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    #20
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,042 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Zappones about as useful as a chocolate teapot. She has the whole early years sector f***ed for both parents and providers


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    #21
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    neris wrote: »
    Zappones about as useful as a chocolate teapot. She has the whole early years sector f***ed for both parents and providers

    I'd like the opinion of a provider.
    Zappone claims to be making their admin easier by only allowing one entry to ECCE during the year (in Sept) as opposed to when they used to allow entry in Jan & April too.


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    #22
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,042 ✭✭✭✭neris


    frash wrote: »
    I'd like the opinion of a provider.
    Zappone claims to be making their admin easier by only allowing one entry to ECCE during the year (in Sept) as opposed to when they used to allow entry in Jan & April too.

    No easier, between ecce and other schemes theyve made things alot more difficult and half the time the system tells you the details provided arent right when they are


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    #23
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    Received an email from Minister Zappone's private secretary today!!!
    "Blah blah blah... no plans to change current system... yadda yadda yadda all parents entitled to two years, up to individual parents to decide if child will avail of one or two years..."

    (Actually kinda mortified because i had a few glasses of wine in me when i sent off that email and it reads like a work experience student wrote it!!!)


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    #24
    detoxkid
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭detoxkid


    I received the same reply a year ago.


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    #25
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    They must be tired of copying and pasting ss I got it too.


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    #26
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    Yes a very generic reply that didn't answer one of the questions i asked!


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    #27
    detoxkid
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭detoxkid


    Yep here too. In the end I just had to let it go and forget about it, it was annoying me so much


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    #28
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    Minister for Children, Katherine Zappone has lost her seat in Dublin South West.

    :D


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    #29
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,042 ✭✭✭✭neris


    frash wrote: »
    Minister for Children, Katherine Zappone has lost her seat in Dublin South West.

    :D

    Best news to come out of the election


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    #30
    heldel00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    Absolutely (and Shane Ross too but I have separate issues with him!)
    I wonder would there be any point in us emailing again? An April cut off makes much more sense.


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    #31
    frash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭frash


    heldel00 wrote: »
    Absolutely (and Shane Ross too but I have separate issues with him!)
    I wonder would there be any point in us emailing again? An April cut off makes much more sense.

    I plan to as soon as there's a new minister for Children in place.
    Will also be on to my new TDs (and the one who got reelected)

    We all should!
    :)


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