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Free Energy ??

  • 18-08-2006 2:22am
    #1
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭


    First off I have no idea where to post this , so I am trying here .

    Secondly I neither have a science backround nor do I particularly understand all the big words , so keep it in lay mans terms for me .

    http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/default.aspx?p=1

    Discuss ............


«13

Comments

  • #2
    David19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭David19


    This is being discussed in the politics forum:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054978349

    It sounds like a load of rubbish tbh.


  • #3
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    There is nothing to discuss. The website has nothing scientific on it yet has claimed to broken the laws of physics. They claimed that Scientists refused to look at the claim but at the same time refuse to post in any scientific journal. They claimed to post thier results in the Econimist however when I went to the ad in question it does no such thing and just refers you back to the website.

    The companys history is pretty sketchy as well.

    How they are even being taken seriously is beyond me.


  • #4
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Hobbes wrote:
    How they are even being taken seriously is beyond me.
    They're not.


  • #5
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Gurgle wrote:
    They're not.

    Well they where on the news this morning. I'm guessing some kind of PR spam attack on the media.


  • #6
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Yup, that whole "breaking the laws of physics" was just to evoke interest.

    It's rpobably along the lines of the Car running on water scam


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  • #7
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    Hobbes wrote:
    Well they where on the news this morning. I'm guessing some kind of PR spam attack on the media.


    Would that not be extremely expensive ?


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hobbes wrote:
    They claimed to post thier results in the Econimist however when I went to the ad in question it does no such thing and just refers you back to the website.
    Sorry but where on their website do they claim that the results are being posted on the Economist? Link please
    Hobbes wrote:
    The companys history is pretty sketchy as well.
    How do you come to that conclusion?


  • #9
    shayflanco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭shayflanco


    Hi All,


    In an earlier discussion they was a comment on the Forum not working - this has now been solved

    "To access the Steorn forum, click the Sign In link on the top right of the page. If you have previously registered a username and password, they will now be active.
    If you need to register, click "Apply for membership" and fill out the form. Your membership will activate immediately."

    Please note that this is a technical reply only!

    Cheers,

    S


  • #10
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    shayflanco wrote:
    Hi All,


    In an earlier discussion they was a comment on the Forum not working - this has now been solved

    "To access the Steorn forum, click the Sign In link on the top right of the page. If you have previously registered a username and password, they will now be active.
    If you need to register, click "Apply for membership" and fill out the form. Your membership will activate immediately."

    Please note that this is a technical reply only!

    Cheers,

    S
    They're monitoring our reactions to it! ;)


  • #11
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Deleted User wrote:
    Sorry but where on their website do they claim that the results are being posted on the Economist? Link please

    In the interview video on google they claim they where ignored by scientist community and are making thier claims for scientists to check thier claims in an advert in the economist. Of course that "Check thier claims" translates to "register with our website and we will get back to you".

    How do you come to that conclusion?

    10 minutes investigating on the net. I couldn't find anything scientific so I went the other direction looking for accolades, etc. Because great minds like these would have major degrees or papers posted.


    First up a quick check on the site and we find only up until recently the site was very basic looking. A lot of information has been removed from the site (probably to stop people looking up). Here is what we have.

    This is what the company originally described itself as...
    Steorn is a leading Intellectual Property (IP) research and development organisation. Founded in 2000, Steorn has developed cutting-edge technology solutions in areas such as optical disc analysis and plastic card fraud prevention. The company is currently engaged in the development of its own proprietary battery substitution technology.

    That was based on thier information in 2000. Earlier this year they claimed they where building kinetic energy batteries for mobile phones. These are not perpetual motion machines as they claim to have built. They also worked on building website portals e-commerce development.

    So I am not seeing anything of note to prove that anyone there is scientific enough to comment on breaking the laws of thermodynamics or even how thier field would bring them to it.

    Here is a list of names gotten from thier old site.
    Sean McCarthy - CEO
    Martin Flood - Engineering Manager

    I also got a few others but I doubt they are related to the find.

    Taking the first two names and having a look around. I can find nothing of note from either. No technical papers published. Nothing. I do see a comment from Sean in 2004 regarding Chip+Pin however it comes across as someone who has not worked in that field, yet we are to believe they worked on "plastic fraud prevention" (which in some cases it would fall under that).

    On their old website they are supposed to have given out an award called "Excellence in Mechanical Engineering 2005 " but absolutly no reference found to who got the award, or what even the award was about. Looks like something internal.

    There is also a patent on magnets but no relation again to breaking the laws of thermodynamics in that either. Incidently kinetic motors do not get energy out of nowhere. They get it from movement which transfers the energy.

    That was just a quick check. I can do a more indepth one if I was half bothered, however from initial investigation there is nothing in thier history to show they even know the science to claim what they know.

    I also noted they got an investor to invest about 2 million or so and claimed they are making a loss and don't plan to make a profit because they have an investor. They where also looking for more investors.

    Btw, normal process of your average company is to.
    - Patent technology
    - Submit technology for peer review.

    They don't seem to have done either. Also ask yourself if you are making a claim to scientists why put that advert in the Economist?

    When they actually release something I'll review it. Until then treating it as pure bokum.


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  • #12
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    does anyone understand the patent linked in the politics thread?

    there are more names listed on that too...

    it hits the blogs...
    Well, the Celts are well-known for discovering unorthodox sources of energy: consider peat.

    Look at a map of Europe, and you'll note that most, if not all of the peat bogs are or were in countries that are or were Gaelic.

    It's said this is because "God knew the Celts were the only people who could get drunk enough to try to burn mud."--P.J. O'Rourke.
    http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2006/08/free_energy_to.html


  • #13
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    It's now item 2 on RTÉs business news with an interview on the News at One

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0818/steorn.html

    http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2166045.smil

    I can't watch the interview here at work. Anything new in it?


  • #14
    ressem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭ressem


    CEO was on the RTE radio 1 news at 1: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/newsatone/ 34:50 minutes in.

    Quote
    "What we've developed is a way to construct magnetic fields, that when you travel around a magnetic field starting and stopping at the same position, you've gained energy. The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet, it's literally created."

    Seems to be the same CEO as
    Unison Aug 01
    "DUBLIN-based technology risk management company, Steorn, has launched a new service, Technology Project Underwriting, designed to guarantee against the failure of technology projects."
    http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/index.php3?ca=35&issue_id=5161

    Could easily be a PR inspired April Fool, to gain mindshare, their last PR in May was about the kinetic supplemental power source for mobiles, where as Hobbes mentioned, they were looking for funding.
    http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/05/21/story14326.asp

    Quote Hobbes
    they are supposed to have given out an award called "Excellence in Mechanical Engineering 2005 "
    It appears to be a co-sponsorship of a DIT award. In AIT it's done by everyone from Ericsson to the local supermarket. Just PR.


  • #15
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Here's the patent application
    http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO2006035419&F=0&QPN=WO2006035419
    Any experts in the field here that could look it over and examine the credibility?


  • #16
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    Why do I get so excited about these things .

    Really don't want this to be another segway .


  • #17
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    ressem wrote:
    It appears to be a co-sponsorship of a DIT award. In AIT it's done by everyone from Ericsson to the local supermarket. Just PR.

    Nope it was seperate to that one. It was removed in the new sites contents.


  • #18
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    notice have they claim to have 175 scientist already registered since this morning, or merely people who claim to scientist, I know im being cruel but how many scientist could they have verrifed in a few hours?
    The registration process involves our offline verification, and so may take some time to complete. Please be patient.


  • #19
    bloodninja
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭bloodninja


    maybe its feasible,

    three electric fields alternating to drive a turbine. Energy needed to operate electric fields is less than that that is yielded... why not.

    Rules are made to be broken


  • #20
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    bloodninja wrote:
    three electric fields alternating to drive a turbine. Energy needed to operate electric fields is less than that that is yielded... why not.
    All forms of power generation create more useful power than humans put in, however it wastes something.
    For instance in a simple coal electric generator, coal is burned to boil water which then evapourates off as steam to turn a turbine.
    However the coal won't burn forever and you haven't given the universe more energy, just redistributed it in a form that is more useful.

    These guys are saying that they can insert energy into the universe at the microscopic level, which would disprove General Relativity.


  • #21
    ressem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭ressem


    maybe its feasible,
    ...
    Rules are made to be broken

    Skepical because claims of large scale "free energy machines" involving magnets are as common as claims of perpetual pyramid schemes.

    Googling brought up this link from MIT.
    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1999/perpetual-0519.html
    As a teaching exercise they had an annual competition to fake a perpetual motion machine using magnetic or electrical field. Points awarded based on how hard it is to refute.

    As for the magnetic actuator described in the patent pending linked above, while there's every chance that positioning magnets could reduce the work required to move a magnetically perimiable cover and attached tray, (less magnetic breaking effect due to smaller changes in eddy currents), which is all that is claimed, you're not going to create energy that way.
    But I'm just an amateur who read my undergrad physics book and lightweight science monthlies. So I could easily be wrong, but in this case I doubt it.


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  • #22
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Oh dear lord, if these people have been working on this why have they not published anything before now? Looking quickly through the patent I notice that they never say that it produces energy. In fact it just states that it is more effeicent and uses less energy than if you used electromagnets to do the same thing...

    "A low energy magnet actuator allows magnetic fields to be turned on and off using a small amount of energy. "

    The question is how can you use this to generate power? If you allow a metal object to be drawn towards a magnet you could get kenetic energy from that... so they use these low energy actuators to sheild the magnet and then the metal object gets pulled towards the next magnet... which then gets sheilded and so on... all the while you get Energy from the movement of the metal object... now... how much energy do you need to activate the shielding of the magnets? if it's less than the amount you can get from the movement you get a net gain in energy! or so it would seem ...

    On one hand I keep thinking wouldn't it be cool if this worked... on the other hand... I don't think it's going to happen. Enthopy is a harsh mistress.


  • #23
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because we want to make the general public aware that this process is about to commence and to generate public support, awareness, interest etc for what we are doing."

    in other words... we have not even tried to submit any papers to any journals because we are claiming to have an overunity device and they would all reject us out of hand...

    Here are some of their claims

    1. The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.
    2. The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts.
    3. There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).

    1., Ok... it produces more energy then is put in to it...
    2., 3., Oh really? I think it's very likely that should this tech. turn out to do anything ... to produce any amount of energy it shall do so by by taking energy from the micro currents with in the magnet, which produce it's magnetic field... this will over time cause the magnet to heat up and the field to weaken.

    If I had invented an Over Unity device like this the last thing I would call it is a free energy machine... I would just build some and test them... build a large one and sell energy to the grid or build several batteries and get people to test them with out telling them that I thought they would go on for ever... Dear Underwriters Labs. please could you test our batteries and let us know how they compair to the AA standard in terms of power out put over time...
    What you say? you've been running a RC car off them for the last 3 days and it's still going? Yeah we thought as much we just wanted you to check it out for us... sign here please.

    Think about it ... every one knows that perpetual motion machines don't work... who in their right mind would try and market something as one?

    Lets pretend it could possibly work... what's this things power to weight ratio? If I want to have a 12v battery how big an machine do I need? if it wieghs ten times as much what would be the point?

    But lets face it... the biggest clue as to this being a damp squib is that they are calling it free energy ... no one in their right mind would call it that if they wanted to be taken seriously. NO ONE! Mark my words it'll turn out to be a poke at the stupid things people will believe once they see it on TV.


  • #24
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Before you continue on I should point out that the patent you can see they claim has nothing to do with this perpetual motion machine.

    They are aware it is a perpetual motion machine and that you can't get a patent for that, so they have instead submitting patents for portions of the so called invention which haven't been published yet.

    This was mentioned on thier forums.


  • #25
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    I'm very sceptical about this whole thing and believe that it is indeed some kind of marketing campaign, PR hoax or scam to get investors however I am also not scientifically minded and have to ask a possibly dumb question...
    The whole problem with their claim is that it defies the laws of thermodynamics and would basically smash physics to pieces... there is the rule that you cannot get out more than you put in etc. and you cannot create energy from nothing, it has to be energy transfered etc.

    So; when you attract a piece of metal to a magnet it creates kinetic energy as it travels (to the magnet)... what is this being created from? Is it something like magnetic energy which is slightly depleated every time the magnet is used or something else?


  • #26
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If the technology was worth a damn it would have been submitted to the following for peer examination.

    http://www.nature.com/index.html
    http://www.sciencemag.org/

    Not waffle about off the record testing.

    Mike.


  • #27
    zuutroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    This is all smoke and mirrors media hype. Possibly a investment drive. These guys must be laughing their heads off that it's gone this far. That patent application is for a low power relay, nothing more. Nothing scientific in anything I've read.


  • #28
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Hobbes wrote:
    Before you continue on I should point out that the patent you can see they claim has nothing to do with this perpetual motion machine.

    They are aware it is a perpetual motion machine and that you can't get a patent for that, so they have instead submitting patents for portions of the so called invention which haven't been published yet.

    This was mentioned on thier forums.

    As I said, I've looked through the patent, I can see it's not a patent for a perpetual motion machine... it's a patent for a device which sheilds a magnetic field, using a small amount of energy to do so. I'm guessing that this is what they think[1] will alow them to get energy out of their contraption.


    They do not have a patent for a perpetual motion machine... but they have publicly stated that they have invented perpetual motion machine, which is a crazy thing to state.
    If you had a working one of these you would avoid the words "Free Energy", "Perpetual", "For ever" and so on.

    It's a crazy thing to say.
    [1] I'm pretty sure that they know it won't work and this is some sort of hoax...

    This whole situation has made me think...
    I'm now working on my own design for a over unity device... basicaly it's a ridged pendulum with a magnet as a weight, just beyond the high point of the swing, on either side, there is a magnet, at first this magnet is positioned such that it attracts the magnet on the pendulum bob but when the bob gets close the magnet is flipped over and pushes it away! Then the pendulum swings back across to the magnet on the far side... and the same attract/switch/repel action takes place...

    now the attraction/repelling to/from the magnets fights off the effects of gravity by adding to the swing of the pendulum, which is good... in the middle of the area swepped by the pendulum is a small coil of wire ... when the magnet on the pendulum bob passes this an electric current will be generated ... this will slow the pendulum slightly so the amount of current must be finely tuned to allow the bob to continue to the point where the magnets will do their magic.
    Of course the whole thing would be in a evacuated chamber to remove any drag caused by the air, and the top of the pundulum would be a frictionless magneticaly levitated joint.

    It would continue for ever... because I don't know how the micro currents in the magnets would be affected by this ... and I'm hand waving away the mechanism by which the magnets get flipped over [2].
    Of course at the start it'll need a battery to provide the power to flip the magnets but with your funding I'm sure we can refine it to the point where the amount of energy we get out is greater than that which we put in... and that even includes the power needed to make the magnets ... which don't weaken over time ... even though their magnetic fields are generated from the movement of elections in microcurrents within the magnet, those microcurrents never ever ever degrade in any way... unless you heat the magnet and/or drop it... you see thats why we call them permanent magnets because they last for ever ... they have an infintly high energy density.

    [2] I'm handwaving away my flipping mechanism ... but it servers the same perpose as the patented actuator above... they claim that their manget sheilding device is super effecient... The then go on to claim that using this super effecient dodad you can get power out of magnets ... which to be blunt you probably could... but not more than there is in them, and probably not at a fast enough rate to power the actuators themselves...

    Argh... will my dream of an unlimited supply of energy never become a reality!


  • #29
    zuutroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    kiffer wrote:


    Of course the whole thing would be in a evacuated chamber

    And to keep the chamber at a sufficient vacuum, you'll need vacuum pumps, which will use way more energy than you'll harvesy. Looks like back to the drawing board!


  • #30
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    flogen wrote:
    I'm very sceptical about this whole thing and believe that it is indeed some kind of marketing campaign, PR hoax or scam to get investors however I am also not scientifically minded and have to ask a possibly dumb question...
    The whole problem with their claim is that it defies the laws of thermodynamics and would basically smash physics to pieces... there is the rule that you cannot get out more than you put in etc. and you cannot create energy from nothing, it has to be energy transfered etc.

    So; when you attract a piece of metal to a magnet it creates kinetic energy as it travels (to the magnet)... what is this being created from? Is it something like magnetic energy which is slightly depleated every time the magnet is used or something else?

    The magnetic field of a magnet is created by the microcurrents ( or rather the spin of magnetic domains) in the magnet...
    there must be a set amount of energy in any magnet. ( the total amount of spin ) using this energy must have an effect on it. ( changing the spin )
    More over, it is in a very ordered from... all the magnetic domains are lined up in the same way ... producing a net magnetic field. Nature loves entropy and if you are heating the magnet and changing the spin over time you will end up demagnetising the magnet... unless you get rid of the entropy that is generated.

    Energy can not be created or destroyed, only changed from one form to another.
    Magnets change kinetic energy from the spin in the magnetic domains in to magnetic energy and then when that magnetic energy causes something to move... it produces kinetic energy again. of course there is waste along the way... heat builds up in the magnet and the object being move.

    I'm dragging all this out of half remembered physics lectures from a few years ago...
    so I don't think it's very accurate. Argh I give up... I wish them the best of luck with their crazy plan.
    I can't wait to see how this turns out... I want to see what investors get suckered in to this and what they say on the day that the whole thing falls apart.

    I thought that the movement in the magnetic domains was that of only electrons which is why I was calling them microcurrents, but looking at The Wiki it seems its more to do with quantum spin of electrons, neutrons and protons... I don't remember that part very well... I'm off to re-read two year old physics notes now.


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  • #31
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    zuutroy wrote:
    And to keep the chamber at a sufficient vacuum, you'll need vacuum pumps, which will use way more energy than you'll harvesy. Looks like back to the drawing board!

    If that was the only problem got with the design I'd be laughing all the way to the bank...

    you could just create the vacuum and then seal the chamber. sure creating a hard vacuum would need a lot of energy up front so to speek ... but once the you've done it then you'd gett it all back over time...

    the flipping the magnets part would take up a lot of energy... and heat would build up in them from the interactions with the field of the moving magnet.

    It's a horrible machine that might run for a while producing a small amount of current... untill the batteries that are needed to flip the magnets over run dry ... then the thing would grinde to a halt. I don't think it could ever produce enough to keep those batteries charged let alone enough power to be of any use. this thing would be a net user of power, not a souce. you'd be sticking fresh aa batteries in it every day... and it might light a hand full of LEDs
    but even then it would only produce a current as the pendulum passed the coil so the power would be alternating... with no power being produced most of the time.


  • #32
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    lets move this to business the snakeoil subforum...

    does anybody know any of the people that work there...
    do they really have an office in the docklands, anyone gone there?
    has an address of 5 estatte cottages off northumberland road beside the canal

    I distrust middle age businessmen with longish hair, we've all met them, they were all

    where are their other products, where is the wind powered cctv cameras? where are their mobile batteries?

    Optical forensics for tracing counterfeit recorded media, P. J. Smith, P. O’Doherty,C. Luna, Fraudhalt Ltd. (Ireland); S. McCarthy, Steorn Ltd. (Ireland)


  • #33
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    I'm curious what would all this extra energy coming into our universe would do?


  • #34
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    I am curious ..... I'd like to understand what ANY of ye are saying !

    But I don't , and I don't forsee that changing , but while I have ye here I can try and get some simplistic answers from ye .

    There are loads of questions here so I better number them

    1:This crown claim to have devised a way to get more energy out that they put in ?
    2:They claim that in doing this they do not wear down the components of their machinery ?
    3: or is it that in relation to question 2 that they claim to not wear down whatever it is that is creating the energy ?
    4: I understand why a coal burning power station depletes the coal it uses to help create the power but how does this apply to wind turbines and wave/water turbines ?


  • #35
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    jonski wrote:
    4: I understand why a coal burning power station depletes the coal it uses to help create the power but how does this apply to wind turbines and wave/water turbines ?
    The wind slows down by impacting the windmills. Which is a loss in Kinetic Energy.


  • #36
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    If something travels a full revolution around a magnet, then surely the energy gained only came from the kinetic energy of the object rotating the magnet? I thought that was the principle behind electric generators?


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  • #37
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    interest comment on a blog here... could jst be BS

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/18/steorn-inventors-of-infinite-energy-destroyers-of-laws-of-ther/2#comments

    Hi,

    Let me tell you a little story - I am based in the Phyiscs Dept of a UK Uni (nameless as there are Non Disclosure Agreements in place), but we were asked to test this Steorn system - Now I wasnt working myself on this but was asked to look at the results - Simlpy put there was an "anomaly" in the results that we were at a lost to explain - this "anomaly" was that the design of the test system, (where we were given Steorn designs but purchased all components ourselves, biult it, tested, etc,) was that there appears to be a net energy gain when you move through the magnetics fields... We stated to Steorn that this "anomaly" required further examination. this was 6 months ago and we cannot find where this excess energy in the system is coming from... We are at a lost to explain it... But magnetics is admittently a bit of a grey area, we know the capabilities of electromagnetism but this is an area that hasnt had the same level of academic research as for example DNA sequencing, astrophysics, etc... the scientific community and industry knew how to create electricity and we left it at that - magnetics is a neglected part of our natural world and the Steorn "anomaly" has left our Dept quite baffled as we are left at a loss to explain it in Classical terms...

    I await what the rest of our community says when they have an opportunity to see this Steon system...

    S

    Posted at 7:27AM on Aug 19th 2006 by Shadit243 [ ! ]

    some people insist it got to with the xbox/halo3 viral marketing apparently bungie did something like this before...?


  • #38
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    But magnetics is admittently a bit of a grey area, we know the capabilities of electromagnetism but this is an area that hasnt had the same level of academic research as for example DNA sequencing, astrophysics, etc...
    If that came from someone based in a physics department, its the guy who cleans the windows.


  • #39
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    We are at a lost to explain it... But magnetics is admittently a bit of a grey area, we know the capabilities of electromagnetism but this is an area that hasnt had the same level of academic research as for example DNA sequencing, astrophysics, etc... the scientific community and industry knew how to create electricity and we left it at that - magnetics is a neglected part of our natural world and the Steorn "anomaly" has left our Dept quite baffled as we are left at a loss to explain it in Classical terms...
    Complete BS.
    Electromagnetism is the most understood thing in modern physics.
    Gravity hasn't been quantised, the Strong Force may have surprises left in its equations, but there isn't anything major left for electromagnetism.
    In fact we even know where it comes from.

    That person is not in a physics department.


  • #40
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Son Goku wrote:
    Complete BS.
    ... but there isn't anything major left for electromagnetism.


    Oh no... don't say that ... that's the worst thing you could say... as sone as some one says there's nothing more to learn in XYZ field of physics then something changes and people look stupid... I'm not saying that steorns stuff is going to be paradigm changing... but something will come up and bite that statement in the bottom.

    This energy anomaly ... how large is it? were the strengths of the magnets tested before and after the tests? do the magnets heat up from the field interations?

    If this "free energy" tech turns out to work ( which I don't think it will ) it'll probably turn out that you'll need a machine the size of a house to produce as much energy as a few AA batteries and the magnetic domains in the magnets will slowly become disorganised by the heat generated by the process and have to be replaced... and making magnets uses alot of power... you have to heat them and a low them to cool in a very strong magnetic field...


  • #41
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    kiffer wrote:
    Oh no... don't say that ... that's the worst thing you could say... as sone as some one says there's nothing more to learn in XYZ field of physics then something changes and people look stupid... I'm not saying that steorns stuff is going to be paradigm changing... but something will come up and bite that statement in the bottom.
    No it isn't. As much as people like to say this kind of "We always find more out, which changes everything completely" thing, it very rarely happens and has never happened to the degree which is often sugessted. It is very unlikely that there will be a fundamental change in our understanding of electromagnetism.

    It has only really ever happened to Newtonian Gravity.

    Unlike everyother force in physics, we actually know where electromagnetism comes from, we can trace its origins. As such there is very little left to surprise us.

    For instance we learned that magnetism and electical forces don't go any deeper than a certain level from Maxwell's equations. After Maxwell's equations it was the combined electromagnetic force that could contain surprises.

    And now with Glashow, Salam and Weinberg Unification, we only have questions about electroweak, not electromagnetism.


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  • #42
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Gurgle wrote:
    If that came from someone based in a physics department, its the guy who cleans the windows.

    In fairness now wasn't it the cleaner of the lab that invented the improbability drive?


  • #43
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    Son Goku wrote:
    it very rarely happens and has never happened to the degree which is often sugessted. It is very unlikely that there will be a fundamental change in our understanding of electromagnetism.

    So there is a possibility ?


  • #44
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    jonski wrote:
    So there is a possibility ?
    A very low one, like there is for all human knowledge.
    It is not a reasonable one.


  • #45
    kiffer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    Son Goku wrote:
    No it isn't. As much as people like to say this kind of "We always find more out, which changes everything completely" thing, it very rarely happens and has never happened to the degree which is often sugessted. It is very unlikely that there will be a fundamental change in our understanding of electromagnetism.

    It was pretty much a joke... :) Murphys law and all that...


  • #46
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    kiffer wrote:
    It was pretty much a joke... :) Murphys law and all that...
    Ah grand. Sorry, I hear that line (about stuff possibly changing) so much.


  • #47
    jArgHA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭jArgHA


    2 points

    1st: i don't believe these guys claims for a second and my guess is that this Steorn company will crop up in Series 3 of LOST as having some connection with the electromagnetic field surrounding the losties island!

    2nd: the steorn ceo starred in a show called 'men behaving badly' some years back, see attached JPG

    EDIT: hmm can't seem to attach image to this post, tis available here:
    http://four.fsphost.com/feilim/steorn_ceo.jpg


  • #48
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    jArgHA wrote:
    2 points

    1st: i don't believe these guys claims for a second and my guess is that this Steorn company will crop up in Series 3 of LOST as having some connection with the electromagnetic field surrounding the losties island!


    While you may well be right , they have already stated that they have nothing to do with xbox , halo 3 or Lost .

    2nd: the steorn ceo starred in a show called 'men behaving badly' some years back, see attached JPG

    EDIT: hmm can't seem to attach image to this post, tis available here:
    http://four.fsphost.com/feilim/steorn_ceo.jpg


    Close , but no cigar :(


  • #49
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    Back to the ' me not understanding this ' thing .

    In simplified form are they saying something like , we can start this machine with a 9 volt battery and it will create enough power to run a washing machine without wearing out anything but the washing machine ?


    Also who or what are NEC ?

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy#NEC_Involvement


  • #50
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    jonski wrote:
    Back to the ' me not understanding this ' thing .

    In simplified form are they saying something like , we can start this machine with a 9 volt battery and it will create enough power to run a washing machine without wearing out anything but the washing machine ?


    Also who or what are NEC ?

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy#NEC_Involvement
    Hmmm that makes it even more interesting. If you read about MPI who "applaud" steorn, they claim to "be close enough to have some demonstration modules, which extracts energy from the vacuum of space ready for market by end of 2006".

    Not only that, a subsidiary of theirs Ultraconductors "developed the world's first ambient temperature superconducting materials" back in 2004.

    Pure bs.

    Oh and NEC appears to be a company founded by the guy who wrote that wiki.
    [SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE]


  • #51
    jonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    Blowfish wrote:

    Oh and NEC appears to be a company founded by the guy who wrote that wiki.
    [SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE]

    They don't seem to be as official as they sound


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