Free Energy ??

jonski · 30-08-2006 6:12pm

SkepticOne wrote:

In the interview on Steornwatch they said that they would not release the names of the scientists.

Basically, no one will know who is working on the project.

They said they would not release the names of the scientists that already tested it , the question of the 12 testing being named is a bit unclear I think . Just listened to that interview again and james suggested that they would be named and Steorn's Sean did not correct him on it .

bonkey · 31-08-2006 3:56pm

The Steorn Team wrote:

We have achieved what we set out to achieve. We have challenged a fundamentalist attitude in the world of science with respect to conservation of energy. We have made the world of science angry enough to apply to come and test our technology.

They seem to have forgotten to add the followings paragraph after the above:

Having made the world of science angry, and having made much noise about the lack of willingness to test, we will now refuse most of those who rose to our bait the opportunity to do what we said we wanted them to do.

We want our system tested as thoroughly as possible. Thats why we, the non-scientists, are the most qualified people to select which scientists from amongst our applicants are suitable testing-candidates.

There is no valid, science-relevant reason for us to do this. It only makes sense from a business perspective.

What I would like to see is a high profile publication step forward and challenge Steorn to demonstrate their technology to a panel of scientists selected by Nature, not Steorn.

Sod selection.

If they won't give anyone who expresses the wish to do so the freedom to have a crack at it then they're hiding something.

kurisu · 31-08-2006 8:43pm

im sure this has already been posted but i havent noticed

but i was wondering has anyone looked at the map in steorns contacts us section of their webpage. the map looks like it was made using microsoft paint by a 4 year old and it doesnt seem to actually pinpoint steorns offices or headquarters, why cant they even give us a location for us to see they exist?

Son Goku · 31-08-2006 11:19pm

pH wrote:

I think in general people fail to understand how fundamental 'conservation of energy' is.......
The conservation of energy is a consequence of Noether's Theorem
.......
I'm thinking that a consequence of this should be that if you run the machine backwards it should destroy energy (well it did create it didn't it!) - anyone?

Also Noether's theorem says that for each conserved quantity generated by an invariant translation (in this case energy's conservation is generated by time translation invariance), there is corresponding divergenceless "current".

In Energy's case the corresponding current is the "Stress-Energy" Tensor, which is what causes the warping of spacetime.

Energy not being conserved would mean that Stress-Energy isn't divergenceless, which would mean Einstein's Equations are incorrect. Which would be difficult to explain as the match observations.

And this is just one thing which depends on Energy Conservation.
There are too many things, which would be incorrect if conservation of energy wasn't true, but match evidence. So it would be difficult to see how energy is not conserved and they are somehow correct.

jonski · 01-09-2006 1:44am

As mentioned in the first post , I know nothing about any of this , but is it not possible that they are converting some kind of energy that up until now we knew nothing about , thereby not breaking any Scientific laws ?

My head hurts .

Hobbes · 01-09-2006 8:22am

Best way to guess what it is. Check the history and what they are saying.

For example. thier promo was something like "Imagine never having to charge your mobile phone or put gas in your car again". Silly. If you had invented free energy it would go more like "Imagine never having to worry about energy in your home, life, etc. Dependacy on forigen oil, etc".

Second. The company previous was working on building kinetic batteries. Basically a battery that charges while you move. Which would happen in the case of a mobile phone or car.

Its most likely they have a modified kinetic battery.

pH · 01-09-2006 10:11am

Hobbes wrote:

Its most likely they have a modified kinetic battery.

They may indeed have some form of kinetic battery (for mobiles, mp3 players but not cars!) and all this has been a huge publicity stunt. Steorn ride a media buzz and announce that what they have is 'As good as ..' or 'Free(for you) energy'

Are there any precedents for this (in business advertising)? Where a company has deliberately made false claims (for a product) to generate press interest and then released a far more mundane product on the back of the hype?

jonski · 01-09-2006 10:50am

pH wrote:

Are there any precedents for this (in business advertising)? Where a company has deliberately made false claims (for a product) to generate press interest and then released a far more mundane product on the back of the hype?

Segway , Segway , Segway , Segway .:D

Gurgle · 01-09-2006 2:37pm

Hobbes wrote:

Imagine never having to put gas in your car again".

Actually, its hypothetically possible to make a car that would never need gas again. It would have to be 100% frictionless, including the body, all bearings and moving parts, and it would have to recover all the kinetic energy when it was slowing down.

jonski wrote:

is it not possible that they are converting some kind of energy that up until now we knew nothing about , thereby not breaking any Scientific laws ?

Yes, of course its possible.
Its just much much more likely (think billions of times more likely) that its just incompetance.

blorg · 01-09-2006 2:50pm

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, its hypothetically possible to make a car that would never need gas again. It would have to be 100% frictionless, including the body, all bearings and moving parts, and it would have to recover all the kinetic energy when it was slowing down.

Of course such a car couldn't drive around on roads, or in an atmosphere, which would be a slight drawback.

Gurgle · 01-09-2006 3:42pm

blorg wrote:

Of course such a car couldn't drive around on roads, or in an atmosphere, which would be a slight drawback.

The roads part would be a bit inconvienent - you would want high friction there rather than none. Atmosphere wouldn't cause undue concern, the energy used in displaced air could be recovered from the air returning to equilibrium. Some kind of forcefield manipulation would probably be required to reach the back of the slipstream. I'm not too hot on fluid dynamics.

pH · 01-09-2006 3:56pm

Gurgle wrote:

The roads part would be a bit inconvienent - you would want high friction there rather than none. Atmosphere wouldn't cause undue concern, the energy used in displaced air could be recovered from the air returning to equilibrium. Some kind of forcefield manipulation would probably be required to reach the back of the slipstream. I'm not too hot on fluid dynamics.

Sadly here the 2nd law of thermodynamics kicks in :
1st Law - You can't win - the best you can do is break even.
2nd Law - You can't break even

.

Basically the 2nd law is saying (simply) that when you lose energy to heat there's no way to get it back again (without expending even more energy!), put another way heat doesn't flow uphill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Capt'n Midnight · 01-09-2006 8:33pm

pH wrote:

Are there any precedents for this (in business advertising)? Where a company has deliberately made false claims (for a product) to generate press interest and then released a far more mundane product on the back of the hype?

Anyone remember the Sinclair car ? C5

or

The Blair Witch Project

or

Many Microsoft Products (based on the fact that they need major service packs to work and features are dropped so it can be shipped )

Capt'n Midnight · 01-09-2006 8:49pm

pH wrote:

1st Law - You can't win - the best you can do is break even.
2nd Law - You can't break even .

I prefer the longer version
1st Law - You can't win - the best you can do is break even.
2nd Law - You can only break even at absolute zero.
3rd Law - You can't reach absolute zero.

What is the energy density claimed ?

Because you have to pay for the device you have lost money that could be invested elsewhere at a profit. You also have to pay for maintainance too. These costs mean that a device that costs €1m to buy and can generate energy forever, but produces only as much as a bicycle dynamo can't be considered free energy. (But NASA could still be interested in one.)

You only have to look the history of wind, wave, tidal and solar to see plenty of examples where a free source of energy is available, but it was still considered uneconomic to use.

Hydroelectic is the main exception to the previous lack of interest in "free energy" from renewables since you can extract quite a lot of energy compared to the capital cost of doing so.

woodyg · 06-09-2006 11:49am

According to Steorn CEO Sean McCarthy, "We put in a small amount of mechanical energy and we get a large amount out ... but until this thing is validated by science we won't be doing anything commercial with it."[21] In an apparent reference to the idea of free energy suppression, McCarthy has been quoted as saying "We have to fight public opinion, we have to fight the scientific community and we have to fight the energy industry. We couldn't pick a worse battleground." [22] However, unlike free energy claimants in the past, Steorn has not yet implied that there was an outright conspiracy to supress its technology.

So from that statement they confirm that its not a free energy source and is not in fact a perpetual motion device as it needs an energy source to initialy instigate a reaction.
But there clain of 400% efficiencies is a little ammusing as this clain would break the fundamental laws of Thermodynamics. i.e. were getting back 400% energy from a small input.
From my knowledge there is not 1 device or natural phenomena that does not loose energy some where in the creation of a new source of energy so there is nothing that exists that is even 100% efficient!
Even the big bang lost energy to another form of energy.

Hobbes · 06-09-2006 1:34pm

A machine that requires a little energy to start is a perpetual motion machine. Anything that gives out more energy then what it takes in.

mike65 · 08-09-2006 5:56pm

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-energy_p20493,00.html

Mike.

lostexpectation · 11-09-2006 11:16am

someone need to lok into the staff and investors

http://www.steornwatch.com/steorn-whos-who/

Sean McCathy [ aka “Shaun” ] - Chief Executive Officer (CEO)

Michael Daly - Chief Operations Officer (COO)

Roger Hatfield - Chief Financial Officer (CFO)

Michael Moriarty - Corporate Financial & Strategy

Richard Walshe - Marketing Manager

Dave King - Intellectual Property Manager ?

Alan Simpsons - Product Development ?

Seamus Flanagan - Business Development Manager ?

carlos lunas

STEORN INVESTORS
(non-employee stockholders)

Michael Brannigan - Kilkenny, Ireland

Patrick Corbett - Kilkenny, Ireland

Goodbody Stockbrokers Ltd. - Dublin, Ireland

Eamonn McKenna - Waterford, Ireland

James Meenan - Dublin, Ireland

James P. Murphy - County Cork, Ireland

STEORN PARTNERS

Citigate Dew Rogerson - Public Relations

i do think that company could be connected with them withs microgenerators etc

im also wondering where most magnets come from?

Dave! · 28-09-2006 12:48am

Any progress on this?

lostexpectation · 28-09-2006 3:52am

they've updated their faqs, nobody seemed interested enough to profile/interview all their investors, geeks don't like people?

You say you stumbled upon the principle of this device, can you talk more about that?

Answer:
We were working on a security system for ATM monitoring, which involved real time verification of ATM cards coupled with an environmental visual capture facility. The latter required numerous camera combinations and we were investigating way of independently powering these (motivations were convenience for individual camera installations (we don’t like cables!) and security of the system). One of the options we examined was small scale wind generators. Of course been the technologists that we are we had to break open the wind generators and started playing around with them, looking at, (amongst other things), the positioning of the magnets and testing the outputs – one of these configurations produced some strange results… And here we are today!

what small scale wind generator already had magnetic parts?

Carlos worked for us as a software developer, developing software for anti-counterfiet products. Carlos continues to work in this area for a partner company (he is one of the best software engineers we have ever worked with). He is not the Carlos Luna with a PhD from Madrid.

Gurgle · 28-09-2006 7:58am

lostexpectation wrote:

what small scale wind generator already had magnetic parts?

Em, all of them!

They're a pretty important component if you want to make electricity.

Ice_Box · 28-09-2006 9:44pm

Steorn have actually recorded a song....and its brilliant

www.steorn.com/Steornhemian Rhapsody.mp3

*** Steornhemian Rhapsody ***

Is this Sean’s real life
Is this just fantasy
Steorn in a landslide
No escape from publicity
Open the skeptics eyes
Look up to the scientists, and see-ee,
Im just a Nobel Prize boy, i need no sympathy
Because Im easy come, easy go,
A little high, little low (voltage),
Anyway the fuel crisis goes ,doesn’t really matter to me,
To me

Mama, just invented a machine,
Put some magnets on their head,
Electrocuted my colleague, now he’s dead,
Mama, the fuss has just begun,
But now Fox News has gone and thrown it all away-
Mama ooo,
OPEC didn’t mean to make you cry-
If Im not back again this time tomorrow-
Test on, test on, as if nothing really matters-

Too late, jury’s time has come,
Sends voltage down my spine-
EXXONs aching all the time,
Goodbye laws of thermodynamics-It's time to go
Gotta prove you all wrong and face the truth
Mama oooh- (any way the wind turbine blows)
I don’t want to die,
I sometimes wish Id never invented it at all-

I see a little silhloue-tesla of a man,
Covert Ops, Black Ops, will you do the hushing up -o-
Oil, Gas and lightning-very very frightening me-
Gamma-ray-o ,galileo,
Gamma-ray-o galileo
Gamma-ray-o figaro-magnet-ifi-co

I’m just a over unity boy and nobody believes me-
He’s just a Dublin boy from a cool company-
Spare him his life from this monstrosity-
Easy power easy go-,will you let me go-
Generate! no-,we will not let you go-let him go-
Generate! we will not let you go-let him go
Generate! we will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go let me go
No, no, no, no, no, no, no
Mama mia, mama mia ,mama mia let me go-
The Saudis has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me-

So you think you can debunk me and spit in my eye-
So you think you can disprove me and leave me to die-
Oh OPEC-cant do this to me baby-
Just gotta get out-just gotta get right outta here-

Nothing really anti-matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really anti-matters-,nothing really anti-matters to me,

Any way the magnets go....

blorg · 28-09-2006 10:11pm

Ice_Box wrote:

Steorn have actually recorded a song....and its brilliant

www.steorn.com/Steornhemian Rhapsody.mp3

OK, this _must_ be some sort of elaborate joke now. I am guessing art project.

Stark · 28-09-2006 10:29pm

Oh my god, that's hillarious.

I wonder what ****e product we'll get to buy for all this viral craziness.

mp3guy · 28-09-2006 10:41pm

Ice_Box wrote:

Steorn have actually recorded a song....and its brilliant

www.steorn.com/Steornhemian Rhapsody.mp3

http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17882&page=1#Item_0

jonski · 30-09-2006 12:12pm

blorg wrote:

OK, this _must_ be some sort of elaborate joke now. I am guessing art project.

bloody expensive art project , no ?

Free Energy ??

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