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Neighbour feeds birds - specifically seagulls

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    #2
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    While gulls are protected, there's every reason not to actively feed them. They carry some serious bacterial diseases and the uric acid in their droppings causes damage to rooftops and cars. If the neighbour proves difficult it may be worth contacting the council environmental health officer.


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    #3
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    OP raises some interesting questions.
    There are a huge number of people feeding small songbirds, and fewer people feeding the larger birds.
    Feeding birds increases the number of birds around (ie the stocking density is higher than it would be otherwise)
    A lot of people get a lot of pleasure from feeding birds, and having them around, whether that is small songbirds or the larger birds like pigeons, seagulls and crows.
    Its better than watching TV or taking anti-depressants. What right has anyone else got to deny the bird-people their pleasures in life?


    I doubt that seagull shít is significantly more hazardous than any other birdshít, but if there are any scientific studies published on the subject, please lets have them posted here...


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    #4
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    BTW the first link in the OP is not exactly an unbiased source of information on birds...
    Contego has grown into one of the leading specialist Bird and Pest Control businesses in the UK


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    #5
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    recedite wrote: »
    OP raises some interesting questions.
    There are a huge number of people feeding small songbirds, and fewer people feeding the larger birds.
    Feeding birds increases the number of birds around (ie the stocking density is higher than it would be otherwise)
    A lot of people get a lot of pleasure from feeding birds, and having them around, whether that is small songbirds or the larger birds like pigeons, seagulls and crows.
    Its better than watching TV or taking anti-depressants. What right has anyone else got to deny the bird-people their pleasures in life?


    I doubt that seagull shít is significantly more hazardous than any other birdshít, but if there are any scientific studies published on the subject, please lets have them posted here...

    Seagull droppings contain numerous diseases that can infect through direct contact and will become airborne or infect water droplets if disturbed. There's a wealth of information in this, going back decades. Anybody involved in a professional capacity that requires working in situations where gull droppings have gathered are given H&S training. I have studies here but they are hard copy.

    Garden birds need our help for so many reasons. The best help we can give gulls is to not feed them and encourage them back to a feeding habit that does not involve them eating our food waste.


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    #6
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    I'd say different diet = different guano.


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    #7
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    King Abundant Cheesecake wrote: »
    They carry some serious bacterial diseases


    It's worth highlighting that dog faeces is much much more of a risk - lest anyone get too concerned...


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    #8
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    But at least dogs don't fly! :pac:


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    #9
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    recedite wrote: »
    BTW the first link in the OP is not exactly an unbiased source of information on birds...


    I'll add to that by saying that a guy from Rentokill was on the radio last year saying that the reason gull numbers have gone up (no info to confirm that..) is that they're having two broods per year now, and they didn't in the past. It's pretty much biologically impossible for Gulls to raise two broods per year, so he was clearly pretty clueless and just drumming up fear/business.


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    #10
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    King Abundant Cheesecake wrote: »
    Seagull droppings contain numerous diseases that can infect through direct contact and will become airborne or infect water droplets if disturbed. There's a wealth of information in this, going back decades. Anybody involved in a professional capacity that requires working in situations where gull droppings have gathered are given H&S training. I have studies here but they are hard copy.

    Garden birds need our help for so many reasons. The best help we can give gulls is to not feed them and encourage them back to a feeding habit that does not involve them eating our food waste.

    Certainly gull droppings can contain harmful bacteria, but in addition to the point of info on dog faeces above, I'll throw in the fact that I spent yesterday and today ringing around 200 gulls (Great Black-backed, Herring and Black-headed) and had them crapping and regurgitating all over my hands/clothes. I'll give the clothes a good wash, and I obviously washed my hands etc well when I was finished, but beyond that there's little to fear.

    That being said, obviously when it comes to health facilities and water supplies etc a high standard of hygiene has to be maintained and that could and should involve the exclusion of gulls.


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    #11
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    It's worth highlighting that dog faeces is much much more of a risk - lest anyone get too concerned...

    True, in many respects but the OP's car, paths and roof are not being splatted with dog faeces and we have a few laws about cleaning up after dogs.


    I really like Gulls, but I would not be feeding them in a residential area.


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    #12
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    I was manning a stand at 'Bloom' this year and two people came up to me about gulls - one person was giving out about them, and the other was wondering what to feed them! Equally, whether its in Dublin City, Howth, or anywhere else there are Gulls in an urban setting there are plenty of people who give out about them and plenty of people who enjoy them and actively feed them. Unfortunately, we tend to only hear from the former when it gets to 'silly season' in the media...


    That being said, for the Gulls sakes as much as anyones, I don't think feeding them is a good idea. It just brings them closer to conflict with the 50% of the population who don't like them. In addition, when they're being fed by humans they don't associate humans with fear/predation, they associate them with food, and a small minority will become emboldened and 'attack'/scare people and give the rest a bad name.

    So, ideally people would enjoy gulls but wouldn't feed them!


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    #13
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    One time I was walking near Talbot Street in Dublin, and this juvenile seagull was trying to eat some rubbish off the ground (plastic tainted by food leftovers, or something like that). It was only a couple of steps away from me, no fear at all. I looked at it, it looked at me in the eye, I said to him "Don't eat that, it's bad for you!". It looked at me again, and calmly walked away. :D

    And yes, I know I'm for the birds... :o


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    #14
    Stigura
    Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭Stigura


    I hate gulls. Because, I see about one a year or so. Always about a thousand yards away. Screaming through the sky, high above, on a tail wind. Basically, a huge, white kite. Seen only from below as it soars past like a rocket.

    It's so frustrating! I just shake my fist at them and yell ~ like something out of a Clint Eastwood film; " What Are You?!? ". And then, they're halfway to Sligo. Complete mystery.

    Hate ducks too :D

    I'll never forget; Many years ago now, I was in england. No idea where I was. Just ended up at some tiny little, rural train station. And there were these two, full adult, Herring Gulls.

    Totally surreal, it was. They just came wandering up the platform. Massive feet slapping. Came up to my bench and just stood there, Right in front of me. Eyeballing me. Obviously completely imprinted on passengers as a ready source of sandwiches.

    Fantastic experience. And the Size of those bloody things, up close and personal! Jesus! :eek:


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    #15
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    People seem to forget that we are the reason the Gulls are feeding in Cities and Town, their staple food in the sea has all but been wiped out, there are no herring or spratt shoals like they were used to so its totally unfair to be putting the blame on them, if we did not overfish they would not be there in such numbers. There was a man in Galway who has passed on that used to feed the Gulls every day outside his house in Galway it became a big attraction as people would gather to see and photo them.


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    #16
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,294 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that we are the reason the Gulls are feeding in Cities and Town, their staple food in the sea has all but been wiped out, there are no herring or spratt shoals like they were used to so its totally unfair to be putting the blame on them, if we did not overfish they would not be there in such numbers. There was a man in Galway who has passed on that used to feed the Gulls every day outside his house in Galway it became a big attraction as people would gather to see and photo them.

    So you are telling now that I have a possible money making opportunity on my hands? :rolleyes:
    Plus what was the state of the footpaths, cars, houses etc after these 'attractions'?

    I would hardly blame the seagulls, they are just seagulls, but they are smart enough to go where the regular food-source is.
    The people who deliberately feed them are the problem, in my opinion.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #17
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    You could go into the Guano Fertiliser business and get your own back on your neighbour. :D

    https://www.planetnatural.com/product-category/organic-gardening/organic-fertilizers/seabird-bat-guano/

    Imagine his reaction when his house looks like this.

    BallestasIslands-Birds.jpg

    ****



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    #18
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    If you do, invest in a garage...


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    #19
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    You could go into the Guano Fertiliser business and get your own back on your neighbour. :D

    https://www.planetnatural.com/product-category/organic-gardening/organic-fertilizers/seabird-bat-guano/

    Imagine his reaction when his house looks like this.

    BallestasIslands-Birds.jpg

    There's gold in them there guano hills:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act


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    #20
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    We have gulls out here, but no one would feed them. The ocean is all around on all sides and we get so many different birds. The gulls have seen the magpies off ..

    They are a lovely sight and their cry so evocative and redolent of holidays

    When I lived in a cornish coastal village there was a campaign against feeding gulls because of the mess on cars. As they say, worse things happen at sea..


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    #21
    Dublin.85
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Dublin.85


    ***HELP***
    I've recently bought a house and a few of the neighbours throw their food out on the green opposite the house and seagulls come like a scene from 'The Birds'. A few nights a week, the food is dumped late at night and sits there all night and then the gulls come first thing in the morning and wake me up. 5am all summer, now it's abit later coz the mornings are darker. I've gone to the council and to local T.D and they won't do anything to stop it. They basically said it's fine to dump food out on the street once is perishable and birds eat it. Anyone any ideas of what to do next as I don't fancy confronting the neighbours as I'm only new on the road and they are there a long time.


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    #22
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Dublin.85 wrote: »
    ***HELP***
    I've recently bought a house and a few of the neighbours throw their food out on the green opposite the house and seagulls come like a scene from 'The Birds'. A few nights a week, the food is dumped late at night and sits there all night and then the gulls come first thing in the morning and wake me up. 5am all summer, now it's abit later coz the mornings are darker. I've gone to the council and to local T.D and they won't do anything to stop it. They basically said it's fine to dump food out on the street once is perishable and birds eat it. Anyone any ideas of what to do next as I don't fancy confronting the neighbours as I'm only new on the road and they are there a long time.

    You should approach (not 'confront') your neighbours about the issue and ask that they feed the gulls during the day. If the food is put out during the day the gulls will have it gone in no time and you won't be woken up. It's that simple. Going to the council and local TD before actually discussing it with your neighbours is not a good way to try and deal with the issue.


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    #23
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    I would contact your Environmental Health Officer in the HSE and stress the fact of food being left out all night- definite grounds for it being dealt with a a public health matter.

    Ideally, if they brought the bread out a t a different time of the day the gulls would quickly cop the new routine and arrive at the appropriate hour. Do the neighbours get up to watch this spectacle? I'm confused if they don't as it would half the appeal.


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    #24
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    baaba maal wrote: »
    stress the fact of food being left out all night- definite grounds for it being dealt with a a public health matter.
    .

    It's not a public health matter. It's fine. The noise and the time of the day are the issue and they're things that can be easily changed. There's no point in wasting the OPs time and the HSEs time by trying to go down that route.


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    #25
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    It's not a public health matter. It's fine. The noise and the time of the day are the issue and they're things that can be easily changed. There's no point in wasting the OPs time and the HSEs time by trying to go down that route.

    Sorry, it may be a public heath matter- leaving food piled in an area is reason to suspect that there will be an increase in rodents in that area. The EHOs go into people's back gardens for precisely the same issue. I wouldn't suggest it on he basis of knowingly wasting the EHO' time- I would say let the EHO decide if it is worth following up on.
    I am also aware that there are already rat in every housing estate in the country, whether people like to believe it or not, the issue is simply about increasing the numbers.
    I'm not against feeding the gulls at all- I am suggesting leaving the food out overnight may be a (small) risk to public health but one best dealt with- and likewise with food waste being stored in back gardens, the EHO can quietly advise the person to cease or amend the practice.


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    #26
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    It's not a public health matter. It's fine. The noise and the time of the day are the issue and they're things that can be easily changed. There's no point in wasting the OPs time and the HSEs time by trying to go down that route.







    It is a public health matter.leaving food out at night is going to draw rats to the area which are proven to carry potentially deadly diseases.
    Birds don’t fly at night.they roost at dusk.
    If the local idiot wants to go feeding seagulls they should at least have the brains to put the food out in daylight when the birds are active and not be basically setting up a bait station for nocturnal vermin.
    That’s a fcukin gombeen that’s putting out food at night


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    #27
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    You should approach (not 'confront') your neighbours about the issue and ask that they feed the gulls during the day. If the food is put out during the day the gulls will have it gone in no time and you won't be woken up. It's that simple. Going to the council and local TD before actually discussing it with your neighbours is not a good way to try and deal with the issue.


    Did you read the bit in bold?


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    #28
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Doctors room ghost wrote: »
    Birds don’t fly at night.they roost at dusk.
    If the local idiot wants to go feeding seagulls they should at least have the brains to put the food out in daylight when the birds are active and not be basically setting up a bait station for nocturnal vermin.
    That’s a fcukin gombeen that’s putting out food at night

    It's besides the point, but birds absolutely do fly at night. And in well-lit areas (e.g. Dublin city) you'll see some gulls feeding long after dark.

    Like I said above, a simple conversation with the neighbours to get them to put the food out during the day could solve this whole thing...


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    #29
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭corks finest


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Moved into place where neighbour regularly feeds seagulls - puts food on outside shed roof
    To the extent that the place is reminiscent of Alfred Hichcock's film 'The birds'.

    There is bird shíte constantly on the roof of houses, surrounding footpaths, on cars, on numerous occasions regularly.
    I did a quick search on boards 'seagull feed' and I was shocked that in this forum where people are supposed 'bird people' do not seem to see anything wrong with feeding seagulls!

    But there are plenty of reasons not to feed them.

    https://www.contegoresponse.com/blog/why-you-shouldnt-feed-seagulls/

    Some the UK have even called for by laws to stop it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/11755446/Do-not-feed-seagulls-or-they-will-attack-RSPB-warns.html


    There are others who go further and argue that humans should not feed wild animals full stop.

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/92746/4-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-feed-birds-or-any-animals

    I am just wondering do most 'bird people' feed birds or is the activity frowned upon?

    My next task is how to confront the neighbour/not a woman you would want to get on the wrong side of.
    She does not even listen to her husband about not feeding the fecking seagulls.



    '

    Anyone feeding gulls pigeons or crows need their heads examined


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    #30
    Dublin.85
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Dublin.85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/114690579#Comment_114690579

    Thank all, following up on my post almost 2 years later... At the time I approached neighbours and asked them to stop throwing food out on the green. They refused to. 'ive always done it and I'm not going to stop now'. Was the answer I got. So this left me no choice then to go back to Dublin city council. Back and forth with them for months when eventually they put letters in all the neighbours doors and signs on the green. It has calmed down a lot since then. No food left at night but they are still seen during the day, scraping their leftovers off their plates onto the green. But as it's daylight, the seagulls come straight away and food is not left there for long. I still don't like them doing it but it's better then being woken up most mornings. Oh and our neighbours haven't spoken to us since. No loss there. I don't want anything to do with people like that anyway.



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    #31
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,294 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119250846#Comment_119250846

    I had to confront my neighbours three times since I first posted. No seed left on their roof now. But in the month since I last gave out to them them after being woken by seagulls fighting in the morning. They have stopped putting seed on their roof since. I mentioned the following case below where DCC and residents took a neighbour to court for feeding pigeons.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-case-pigeons-stoneybatter-4897393-Nov2019/


    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1012/1171042-pigeons-stoneybatter/


    It is basically a tort of nuisance and even if it private property or not, it is still a tort. The key to a tort of nuisance is that is it ongoing and the perpetrator knowingly keeps doing it.

    Like yourself the neighbours have not spoken to me since, and to be honest that suits me grand as well.

    I had even purchased your one a bird feeder, so she could watch the small birds eating. But that ended up over my wall. It was the wind apparently. Even though it was a heavy plastic yoke, So I have no sympathy for them anymore. Being elderly is not an excuse to act the bollix.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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