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world junior road race

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    #32
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Inquitus wrote: »
    I have to disagree, I don't see how the likes of Eddie Dunbar racing against me is any good for either of us tbh.
    That's why neither of us are coaches! We can debate as much as we want but we really don't know what we are talking about when trying to understand how to produce a world class athlete


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    #33
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    columbus_66 wrote: »
    Are there any excuses?
    Excuses for what?

    What excuses are the Americans putting forward? - their first rider was behind O'Loughlin. What about the Aussies with no-one in the top 20?


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    #34
    columbus_66
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭columbus_66


    I think the Aussies are doing really well at most other levels and the Americans too, our lads have been hyped up all year winning races here, did they race against these other riders beforehand?


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    #35
    Andalucia
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Andalucia


    bit of a twitter spat developing between the Dunbarrs and Sticykbottle over their choice of headline to comment on the race

    it appears Dunbarr has secured a 3 yr deal at pastures new, details to be announced shortly


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    #36
    albert kidd
    Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭albert kidd


    columbus_66 wrote: »
    I think the Aussies are doing really well at most other levels and the Americans too, our lads have been hyped up all year winning races here, did they race against these other riders beforehand?


    why the need to want to knock them?

    they have performed very well all year..its not hype..the results have proved that they have performed well and deserved praise...they rode well today imo..its not as if they went out the back door after a few laps.

    onwards and upwards for them.


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    #37
    columbus_66
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭columbus_66


    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dunbar-can-get-a-worlds-medal-but-he-must-bide-his-time/

    Read the article again?


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    #38
    ragazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭ragazzo


    Beasty wrote: »
    Seriously???

    Did you see how Ryan Mullen performed? He's a product of the current youth system, where on the male side of the sport Ireland is punching well above their weight at World level. Eddie Dunbar is a great talent. However I suspect once he's not going to be in the frame there wasn't much point in busting a gut to get perhaps a top 20 place. The current system in Ireland seems to me to be producing the results

    Ryan lived in Wales, as far as I know, and did his racing in the UK. He represented Ireland in some youth/junior races but to say he is a product of Irelands current youth system is probably a bit of a stretch.

    Hopefully our juniors continue to prosper, improve and develop. They are riding against the very best in the world and there can be only 3 riders on the podium.
    We should always remain aware of that simple fact.
    It is easy to write stories bigging riders up but people should remember that the riders themselves usually suffer the biggest disappointment when performances fail to match the hype.


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    #39
    Arthurdaly
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Arthurdaly


    Beasty wrote: »
    Seriously???

    Did you see how Ryan Mullen performed? He's a product of the current youth system, where on the male side of the sport Ireland is punching well above their weight at World level. Eddie Dunbar is a great talent. However I suspect once he's not going to be in the frame there wasn't much point in busting a gut to get perhaps a top 20 place. The current system in Ireland seems to me to be producing the results

    I'm probably not long enough around the the sport to comment on Ryan Mullen and his ride but as far as I am aware he's not road raced in Ireland too much. My point is that if you want to compete at the very highest level you need guys better than you pushing you, every sport is the same.


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    #40
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Arthurdaly wrote: »
    I'm probably not long enough around the the sport to comment on Ryan Mullen and his ride but as far as I am aware he's not road raced in Ireland too much. My point is that if you want to compete at the very highest level you need guys better than you pushing you, every sport is the same.
    You do know the juniors are not restricted to A3? They can race in the higher cats but require special approval to do so. We have had numerous threads touching upon this. Basically if the coaching staff believe they can benefit from it they will be permitted to do so.


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    #41
    mistermatthew
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭mistermatthew


    Paddy power gone a bit nuts

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/cycling/tour-de-france?ev_oc_grp_ids=276495

    Dunbar odds for tdf lol


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    #42
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭wav1


    A lot of negative sh1t appeared over the past few hrs on twitter which annoys me to be honest.Look there were 3 nations on the podium today and after that dozens of nations[including us]disappointed,but that's life that's sport.They gave it their best shot and it wasn't good enough on the day.Simple.To me [and lots will disagree with me I know]its about retaining these 5 guys in the sport to the point where we are still talking about them in 4 yrs time as potential U23 contenders and beyond.Im as disappointed as the rest but they are all 17/18 yr olds.
    As far as riding the A3 races are concerned.None of the 5 on duty today would[possibly with the odd exception]have rode an A3 specific race in Months.Eddie has been Eddie and has been winning all sorts.OLoughln won the wexford 2 day.Shanahan in a 3 rider break in Kilmallock and narrowly beaten by Dowling and Paudi.etc etc.Most Irish A1 riders would have struggled with that race toady IMO.Regardless of today we still have a special bunch of them at present,and its all about lifting the heads and getting on with it which im sure they all will.Pretty sure they all will go on to have further success at whatever level they choose.


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    #43
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭wav1


    columbus_66 wrote: »
    So much for the hype:

    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dunbar-can-get-a-worlds-medal-but-he-must-bide-his-time/

    Surely it's back to the drawing board, did they not race with these guys during the season? Are there any excuses?
    Next year we wont allow hype.We'll tell them their no good before they go.
    Its not BACK to the drawing board,its a continuing with the drawing board.Its a work in progress.


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    #44
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    Pretty much agree with all that Wav said above.
    Thats sport, yoou dont always win.

    If I was disappointed with any aspect of the race is was that the tactic seemed to be stay fresh until the end then kick - this was a reasonable tactic given how todays race and all of the other races on this circuit went. When the time came to kick i Thought it was relatively weak considering.
    Look, this will hopefully stand to the team and as Wav said its about being there in the future.

    For the gys like the Americans and Kazaks, they may not have won, but at least they were good value - despite the dubious tactic.


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    #45
    columbus_66
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭columbus_66


    wav1 wrote: »
    Next year we wont allow hype.We'll tell them their no good before they go.
    Its not BACK to the drawing board,its a continuing with the drawing board.Its a work in progress.


    That's it Wav1, it the over-hyping that causes damage, if you over hype the lads all year that is putting them up on a pedestal, which can mean a big downfall if it doesn't happen.

    It also leads us back to the drawing board. Did they have the correct preparation? Did they ride with those guys during the year? Aren't there a lot of big junior races in europe all year long for the lads to judge and assess their fitness. They obviously didn't have the correct preparation and this is what needs to be assesed.

    For example a lot of the U23's had ridden the Tour de L'Avenir as preparation?


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    #46
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I did not see this race. Seems like the guys were in the hunt but in the final selection they got left behind.

    There is nothing wrong or unusual about this. At elite level you have to start a race hoping or planning to win, but its not a certainty. Just think Team GB in London 2012 Olympic RR.

    Cycling can be quite fickle and its not always the strongest rider that wins gold.

    That's sport and cycling at top level. If you don't win on a given day, it does not mean your preparation was wrong.


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    #47
    zurbfoundation
    Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭zurbfoundation


    columbus_66 wrote: »
    That's it Wav1, it the over-hyping that causes damage, if you over hype the lads all year that is putting them up on a pedestal, which can mean a big downfall if it doesn't happen.

    It also leads us back to the drawing board. Did they have the correct preparation? Did they ride with those guys during the year? Aren't there a lot of big junior races in europe all year long for the lads to judge and assess their fitness. They obviously didn't have the correct preparation and this is what needs to be assesed.

    For example a lot of the U23's had ridden the Tour de L'Avenir as preparation?

    I think main problem with Euro racing for these lads is school/exams - I know MOL did a good leaving this year - and thats so important because the chance of success in cycling is so tiny -

    I know @columbus_66 you have been racing bikes only slightly longer than me, we must have seen 50 Eddie Dunbars come and go at this stage - doing it on a wet weekend in the a-hole of Ireland in March is much different to doing it on the international stage

    I don't think the hype and interviews and opinion pieces that float around now is of much benefit to these lads tbh - new comers to the sport that are commenting on here had read them and expected a medal out of the lad - and when it doesn't happen question what went wrong - this shows a lack of understanding of the ability required at this level plus a lack of understanding of championship racing.

    If St. Pats ran away with the league of Ireland you wouldn't expect them to win the champions league no matter what The Star football section said - if u get me


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    #48
    Juan More Time
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Juan More Time


    Ok so Eddie Dunbar didn't become world junior champion..but the world champs are a one day race where luck can play a big part upon who wins on the day. Anyways I see Eddie as more of a stage racer than a one day rider.


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    #49
    slow
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭slow


    187 riders started the Junior Worlds today. Every single rider wanted to do his country, club & family proud. Ireland qualified 5 riders on a tiny budget. Australia qualified 4... With a lap to go, we had two guys in contention. MO'L finished 44th, 1.44 down on the winner. And 11th first year junior...

    ED finished 60th, 3.51 down. Matt Gibson, the great hope of British Cycling with its lottery funding finished 67th at 5.04. Both MOL & ED did good Leaving Certs this year.

    They gave us a lot to cheer about on our computer screens. The preparation is another story. MOL raced in France. The others stayed home. CI's last prep race was the Junior Tour in July. But with the Paras, track and elite programmes, there's only so much money to go around. Well done to the young lads today.


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    #50
    mistermatthew
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭mistermatthew


    Yeah Its a oe day race. If you look at the winners list of previous junior worlds some great riders have struggled in the event. I wouldn't get too annoyed just yet.

    At junior level we haven't seen them develop into the specialised riders they will become. Much the same as in the senior race if froome wasn't near winning we wouldn't think he's rubbish because we understand the strengths he has and the races it suits.

    MOL and ED are still top class and we will hopefully see their careers bloom in the subsequent years. The worst thing that could happen is that the criticism forces them to reconsider competing.


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