Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

JTMan · 21-10-2020 10:21am

The Irish Times have re-stated Natwest stance on this which is "in the event of any changes being made to our strategy, these would be undertaken with full consideration of any impact on customers, colleagues and shareholders in the first instance”.

Not exactly a denial that closure will happen. I would guess that transalation of that statement is that closure is happening but there is lots of planning to do on impacts for customers, staff etc and they are currently in planning mode.

_Brian · 21-10-2020 10:45am

With trackers being such a distastful product for banks at the moment.. Think we're on ECB + 0.75%

Are these likely to be sold to a vulture fund ??

ITs a good loan as never missed or late payment...

Would a vulture fund be more open to a cheeky offer to pay it off on the cheap ??

Doodah7 · 21-10-2020 10:58am

_Brian wrote: »

With trackers being such a distastful product for banks at the moment.. Think we're on ECB + 0.75%

Are these likely to be sold to a vulture fund ??

ITs a good loan as never missed or late payment...

Would a vulture fund be more open to a cheeky offer to pay it off on the cheap ??

This comes up all the time. Why would the 'vulture' fund be interested in a deal. They have bought the loan at a discount that is now likely profitable to them. You are paying the loan off diligently and therefore at no additional cost to them. Would you do a deal in these circumstances?

Geuze · 21-10-2020 11:04am

_Brian wrote: »

With trackers being such a distastful product for banks at the moment.. Think we're on ECB + 0.75%

Tracker mortgages are profitable, even at 0.75%.

_Brian · 21-10-2020 11:38am

Doodah7 wrote: »

This comes up all the time. Why would the 'vulture' fund be interested in a deal. They have bought the loan at a discount that is now likely profitable to them. You are paying the loan off diligently and therefore at no additional cost to them. Would you do a deal in these circumstances?

Geuze wrote: »

Tracker mortgages are profitable, even at 0.75%.

Thats fair enough...
Can't blame a fella for wishin..

Have cash in the bank.. at current interest rates doesnt seem any use to pay it off unless i got a decent discount..

21-10-2020 11:40am

Ulster bank are still advertising their mortgages. Trying to build up a nice portfolio to sell on to the vulture fund.

Doodah7 · 21-10-2020 1:58pm

_Brian wrote: »

Thats fair enough...
Can't blame a fella for wishin..

Have cash in the bank.. at current interest rates doesnt seem any use to pay it off unless i got a decent discount..

If you are not earning more interest on your funds on deposit than the interest rate of your mortgage, then it makes no sense to be paying the higher interest mortgage loan.

You will get a better 'return' on your money by clearing your mortgage.

Doodah7 · 21-10-2020 1:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ulster bank are still advertising their mortgages. Trying to build up a nice portfolio to sell on to the vulture fund.

And this is pure rubbish...

Jim2007 · 21-10-2020 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ulster bank are still advertising their mortgages. Trying to build up a nice portfolio to sell on to the vulture fund.

Ah yes the cunning plan to bankrupt the bank and sell the loan book to a vulture fund.... now why has no one thought of that????

JTMan · 21-10-2020 4:01pm

Charlie Weston in the Indo on the latest on this here. One comment jumped out at me: "Ulster Bank executives were told staff and customers must be told quickly if there is any decision to shut the bank down."

Is the Minister saying that knowing that the review outcome is about to be published? Media reports said it would be before the end of October.

Timing belt · 21-10-2020 4:17pm

JTMan wrote: »

Charlie Weston in the Indo on the latest on this here. One comment jumped out at me: "Ulster Bank executives were told staff and customers must be told quickly if there is any decision to shut the bank down."

Is the Minister saying that knowing that the review outcome is about to be published? Media reports said it would be before the end of October.

Will probably announced when they publish Q3 results at the end of the month.

_Brian · 21-10-2020 4:21pm

Doodah7 wrote: »

If you are not earning more interest on your funds on deposit than the interest rate of your mortgage, then it makes no sense to be paying the higher interest mortgage loan.

You will get a better 'return' on your money by clearing your mortgage.

Yea.. theres that..
Some of the cash is tied up where its doing similar and I have it..

I'll hold for the moment..

21-10-2020 4:24pm

What would it mean for Ulsterbank in Northern Ireland?
Are they linked anymore?

Timing belt · 21-10-2020 4:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What would it mean for Ulsterbank in Northern Ireland?
Are they linked anymore?

I believe they are separate.

If they do kept the north they would probably rebrand it to NatWest as would be cheaper have one brand but that is only speculation.

JTMan · 21-10-2020 4:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What would it mean for Ulsterbank in Northern Ireland?
Are they linked anymore?

Natwest have said that there will be no changes to UB in NI.

Timing belt · 21-10-2020 4:36pm

JTMan wrote: »

Natwest have said that there will be no changes to UB in NI.

It would make sense to merge Ulster NI with NatWest from a cost perspective. I think that this is what will happen if Ulster pulls out of Ireland.

relax carry on · 21-10-2020 8:03pm

So if it does close, does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable bank without mad costs for day to day banking. And also probably transfering a mortgage to if Ulster Bank sell their mortgage book

silver2020 · 22-10-2020 11:11am

relax carry on wrote: »

So if it does close, does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable bank without mad costs for day to day banking. And also probably transfering a mortgage to if Ulster Bank sell their mortgage book

If Ulster sell up / close in the south, they may keep the mortgage book and have it managed by someone else or keep a core team and manage it themselves.

Even if they did sell it, the terms and conditions do not change one iota.

On current accounts, just like Danske bank, there would be many months advance notice, so there is zero need to be concerned in any way at present.

Ulster Bank NI is a totally separate bank these days and is the dominant bank in the north (and profitable)

kerryjack · 22-10-2020 11:27am

silver2020 wrote: »

If Ulster sell up / close in the south, they may keep the mortgage book and have it managed by someone else or keep a core team and manage it themselves.

Even if they did sell it, the terms and conditions do not change one iota.

On current accounts, just like Danske bank, there would be many months advance notice, so there is zero need to be concerned in any way at present.

Ulster Bank NI is a totally separate bank these days and is the dominant bank in the north (and profitable)

It's not as simple as opening another current Account, My current account is linked to my mortgage, it's an offset mortgage the more I have in my Account the less interest I pay on my mortgage. I have already knocked 2 years off my 30 year mortgage and have about 12 years left at 1,15 % so some sort of deal will have to be done with us.

phormium · 22-10-2020 6:04pm

kerryjack wrote: »

It's not as simple as opening another current Account, My current account is linked to my mortgage, it's an offset mortgage the more I have in my Account the less interest I pay on my mortgage. I have already knocked 2 years off my 30 year mortgage and have about 12 years left at 1,15 % so some sort of deal will have to be done with us.

Same here, I pay no interest and want to keep it that way

They gave us something years ago to sign away one of the options for the repayments on that account but for the life of me I can't remember the details!

kerryjack · 22-10-2020 6:20pm

I am sure they have it in small print somewhere a get out clause if they ever go belly up or liquidated they were not that stupid.

phormium · 22-10-2020 6:24pm

I have the paperwork, must have a read

They had to get a signature to change whatever it was they did that time that I can't remember!

As it wasn't a UB product originally then their stupidity won't come into it!

Timing belt · 22-10-2020 6:29pm

phormium wrote: »

I have the paperwork, must have a read They had to get a signature to change whatever it was they did that time that I can't remember!

It will probably say that in the event of a sale or exiting the market that they have the right to move you onto a SVR mortgage

phormium · 22-10-2020 6:36pm

Timing belt wrote: »

It will probably say that in the event of a sale or exiting the market that they have the right to move you onto a SVR mortgage

I'm wondering would that have even been anticipated though by First Active when those mortgage were originally issued? Different times!

If that was a common clause couldn't the lenders that have already exited here have got people off their trackers that way, they didn't and the purchasers of the mortgages have to honour the terms of the mortgages they buy.

Timing belt · 22-10-2020 6:46pm

phormium wrote: »

I'm wondering would that have even been anticipated though by First Active when those mortgage were originally issued? Different times!

If that was a common clause couldn't the lenders that have already exited here have got people off their trackers that way, they didn't and the purchasers of the mortgages have to honour the terms of the mortgages they buy.

I would be surprised if they didn’t consider it when the product was launched. Who knows if there are not many of them in existence it might be cheaper to just write off the debt or discount it to get rid of them and get you to sign a Non disclosure to say you won’t talk about it.

JTMan · 29-10-2020 6:31pm

Timing belt wrote: »

Will probably announced when they publish Q3 results at the end of the month.

Q3 results are tomorrow morning. Staff have clearly not been told yet and I guess staff would be told first so maybe the announcement will be after the results despite media talk that the announcement would be made this month.

Timing belt · 29-10-2020 6:42pm

JTMan wrote: »

Q3 results are tomorrow morning. Staff have clearly not been told yet and I guess staff would be told first so maybe the announcement will be after the results despite media talk that the announcement would be made this month.

They won’t tell staff before results as staff will leak to media. Staff would only be told at the same time as press release is issued not before and that would be holding statement which would be followed up with a team discussion or individual meetings.

JTMan · 29-10-2020 7:22pm

Timing belt wrote: »

They won’t tell staff before results as staff will leak to media. Staff would only be told at the same time as press release is issued not before and that would be holding statement which would be followed up with a team discussion or individual meetings.

Yeah, staff would leak to the media but the stock market is the key. Natwest could have told staff this evening (post market close) and then made the announcement to the market with the results tomorrow morning before the market opens.

Anyways, I guess the Natwest results will be out around 8 AM tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if it just says that a strategic review is ongoing or if tomorrow is the day of the announcement.

JTMan · 30-10-2020 1:56pm

This morning Natwest just said that the review of Ulster Bank continues.

Looks like we won't get an answer by the end of October as reports had suggested.

This review surely cannot go on much longer, new business must be falling off a cliff for Ulster Bank.

Claw Hammer · 30-10-2020 2:09pm

JTMan wrote: »

This morning Natwest just said that the review of Ulster Bank continues.

Looks like we won't get an answer by the end of October as reports had suggested.

This review surely cannot go on much longer, new business must be falling off a cliff for Ulster Bank.

They wouldn't have let it be known there was a review if they weren't going to close in the Republic. Now that it is known, it can go on for as long as they like. It may be that they are expecting approaches from potential purchasers of some or all of the business. Due diligence may be occurring during this process. The possible loss of any new business during this period is inconsequential.

Quackster · 30-10-2020 2:44pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They wouldn't have let it be known there was a review if they weren't going to close in the Republic. Now that it is known, it can go on for as long as they like. It may be that they are expecting approaches from potential purchasers of some or all of the business. Due diligence may be occurring during this process. The possible loss of any new business during this period is inconsequential.

Or they could be attempting to pressure the Government into merging Ulster with PTSB.

Arthur Daley · 30-10-2020 4:17pm

Why should the Irish government be under any pressure.

What 'competition' is going to be provided. Another government owned Bank won't provide competition and the Irish Government is not meant to be in the business of running more and more Banks

Quackster · 30-10-2020 4:59pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Why should the Irish government be under any pressure.

What 'competition' is going to be provided. Another government owned Bank won't provide competition and the Irish Government is not meant to be in the business of running more and more Banks

To save (at least some of) the jobs, the issue of towns where Ulster is the last bank with a local branch and the notion of creating a 'credible third force'.

The Government already owns most of PTSB. It doesn't want to be in the business of owning banks but we are where we are. They'll offload AIB and PTSB as soon as they can get some reasonable return from doing so.

Claw Hammer · 30-10-2020 5:19pm

Quackster wrote: »

To save (at least some of) the jobs, the issue of towns where Ulster is the last bank with a local branch and the notion of creating a 'credible third force'.

The Government already owns most of PTSB. It doesn't want to be in the business of owning banks but we are where we are. They'll offload AIB and PTSB as soon as they can get some reasonable return from doing so.

It's quite clear the government expects bank branches to close in various towns. One government minister recently advised people to use the Post-Office if their local bank branch closes. In order for the banks to properly complete with the online providers, the banks will have to cut their cost base. This will mean reducing branch numbers with consequent reductions in the numbers of staff. The government is not concerned about saving jobs in banks. Banking is moving increasingly online and trying to keep labour intensive activity going for the purpose of saving jobs would be lunacy. The days of the banks providing branches on the High Street for the purpose of obtaining the takings of the local businesses are over. The government is quite happy that less cash is used, that shops increasingly operate with less and less cash and more use of debit and credit cards. There are now quite a number of business operators who refuse to accept cash at all. There is no need for a trip to the local bank branch before and after business hours to lodge cash or to obtain cash for floats. There is no worry about security or theft of cash and money laundering becomes much more difficult.
Ulster bank will be let close down.

Arthur Daley · 30-10-2020 5:44pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There are now quite a number of business operators who refuse to accept cash at all.

Refusing to accept legal tender. Sounds like a fairly illegal practice.

It's a separate discussion but abandoning cash would be a big mistake.

In any event nationalising the Banking system would not save cash. Consumers voting with their feet and wising up to the loss of options brought by cash is the only thing that will save cash.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 30-10-2020 5:52pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Refusing to accept legal tender. Sounds like a fairly illegal practice.

It's a separate discussion but abandoning cash would be a big mistake.

In any event nationalising the Banking system would not save cash. Consumers voting with their feet and wising up to the loss of options brought by cash is the only thing that will save cash.

There is no requirement for a retailer to accept cash, never has been.

phormium · 30-10-2020 6:33pm

RBS announced a review of whether or not to keep UB in 2012 as well, nothing came of it then as I presume no one wanted to take it over then either so probably closing it all is their only option if they are serious this time.

I wouldn't hold my breath, boy who cried wolf and all that, even though I can only find mention online of the 2012 review I'm fairly sure that wasn't the only time it was mentioned either over the years!

Claw Hammer · 30-10-2020 7:29pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Refusing to accept legal tender. Sounds like a fairly illegal practice.

.

Nothing illegal once the terms are made clear before a contract is entered into.

Claw Hammer · 30-10-2020 7:30pm

phormium wrote: »

RBS announced a review of whether or not to keep UB in 2012 as well, nothing came of it then as I presume no one wanted to take it over then either so probably closing it all is their only option if they are serious this time.

I wouldn't hold my breath, boy who cried wolf and all that, even though I can only find mention online of the 2012 review I'm fairly sure that wasn't the only time it was mentioned either over the years!

2012 was the depths of the recession. They subsequently attempted to make a go of it. Now Covid has ruined the chances of making a go of it.

silver2020 · 30-10-2020 7:44pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Refusing to accept legal tender. Sounds like a fairly illegal practice.

I would suggest that you fully check the meaning of legal tender and acceptance before you embarrass yourself somewhere.

I'll save you the effort

A debt must have occurred first. Then in settlement of that debt you offer legal tender, it must be accepted.

For a debt to occur in this meaning you must create an account with the merchant.

So, say you still shopped in Shaws and had a shaws account (yes they still do this) and you went to the accounts office and offered €300 cash and they refused it, that would be wrong and you could use that if such dispute went to court.

If however you just went into shaws, picked up a suit and couple of shirts and it came to €300, they could refuse to take cash from you (highly unlikely) and there would be absolutely nothing you can do.

If you do what a "pub talk" lad said and walked out with the goods because you "offered legal tender", you'd be arrested for theft and the pub talk excuse would be laughed out of court.

But what this has to do with ulster bank possibly closing, I don't know

Timing belt · 31-10-2020 12:10am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

2012 was the depths of the recession. They subsequently attempted to make a go of it. Now Covid has ruined the chances of making a go of it.

Covid is not the reason for closing down/selling Ulster bank. It’s not profitable because of the amount of capital they need to hold since the 2008 crash. By closing it down NatWest will be able to get there hands on the capital and pay dividends which will boost the share price and if you read the Q3 presentation this is the banks main focus as it may allow the UK government (it’s largest shareholder) exit its holdings.

milout · 31-10-2020 12:31pm

I'm gutted to read they might be closing, their banking app is great, especially compared to the dire offering from BOI, even after their recent upgrade.

Does anyone have a recommendation for an alternative current account that has a better app than BOI?

Claw Hammer · 31-10-2020 1:47pm

Timing belt wrote: »

Covid is not the reason for closing down/selling Ulster bank. It’s not profitable because of the amount of capital they need to hold since the 2008 crash. By closing it down NatWest will be able to get there hands on the capital and pay dividends which will boost the share price and if you read the Q3 presentation this is the banks main focus as it may allow the UK government (it’s largest shareholder) exit its holdings.

Covid has ruined the organic growth model. If it had been making money in the Republic, Nat West would have less incentive to wind it up. They might have done it anyway, but Covid has made it much more pressing.

Belt · 02-11-2020 4:35pm

milout wrote: »

I'm gutted to read they might be closing, their banking app is great, especially compared to the dire offering from BOI, even after their recent upgrade.

Does anyone have a recommendation for an alternative current account that has a better app than BOI?

Not sure how it compares to BOI, but I find KBC's app good and easy to use. It has your current and deposit accounts and credit cards all in one place. No fees on the current a/c if you're lodging greater than €2,500 a month

loyatemu · 02-11-2020 5:00pm

AIB's app is also fine (I have both UB and AIB on my phone).

Claw Hammer · 02-11-2020 5:40pm

Belt wrote: »

Not sure how it compares to BOI, but I find KBC's app good and easy to use. It has your current and deposit accounts and credit cards all in one place. No fees on the current a/c if you're lodging greater than €2,500 a month

KBCs app is only good on a phone, dreadful on a PC.

JTMan · 17-12-2020 2:41pm

The language that the Central Bank of Ireland are using about Ulster Bank adds further weight that a closure announcement is coming.

- At least 2 months notice will be provided.
- All outstanding transactions must be concluded.
- CBI is having "regular and intensive engagement with Ulster Bank".

I suspect that Natwest (that are 62% UK government owned) want to get their timing right, now is not the right time to upset people, I would guess that they are waiting until post Brexit/FTA before making the closure announcement.

kevthegaff · 17-12-2020 2:45pm

I have business loans with ulster bank, will It just be transferred to another bank?

Timing belt · 17-12-2020 3:40pm

JTMan wrote: »

The language that the Central Bank of Ireland are using about Ulster Bank adds further weight that a closure announcement is coming.

- At least 2 months notice will be provided.
- All outstanding transactions must be concluded.
- CBI is having "regular and intensive engagement with Ulster Bank".

I suspect that Natwest (that are 62% UK government owned) want to get their timing right, now is not the right time to upset people, I would guess that they are waiting until post Brexit/FTA before making the closure announcement.

Just because it is 62% uk gov owned will have little impact on any decision.

Charles Babbage · 17-12-2020 3:48pm

It is disappointing that 100 years after partition if the Ulster bank is closed in the ROI by the British government, when that partition probably won't last a further decade and trade within the island will likely increase significantly following Brexit.

Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

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