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The Labour Defence Manifesto

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    #32
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    sparky42 wrote: »
    90% of what you post doesn't make sense with what we have or likely to have, nor what we'd use the DF for.

    90%??? :D:D:D:D


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    #33
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Heraldoffreeent wrote: »
    90%??? :D:D:D:D
    I thought I'd be diplomatic.


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    #34
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Ah Sparky! Terrific series of points covered there in your penultimate post! Of course nobody in their right minds would even consider sending a P60 down the Gulf single handed on account of issues you raised! Hence my suggestion that it could have nipped down there to accompany the three frigates currently on station thanks to France Netherlands and Germany, which would provide any air cover or other sophisticated AA and AS defences. Independently there are also two UK/US frigates in the immediate area as well. I do take your point about the P60 being in need of an upgrade with some enhanced radar and missile capabilities bolted on. Worth considering two of the fleet for upgrading.
    All the same I think you are being a little harsh in your criticism of the ships capabilities as it has pretty good CIWS gear on board and an experienced crew. Considering the RN felt that the vastly inferior River class OPV would suffice for the maritime defence of the Falklands. Enjoy the rest of your day lads!


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    #35
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Ah Sparky! Terrific series of points covered there in your penultimate post! Of course nobody in their right minds would even consider sending a P60 down the Gulf single handed on account of issues you raised! Hence my suggestion that it could have nipped down there to accompany the three frigates currently on station thanks to France Netherlands and Germany, which would provide any air cover or other sophisticated AA and AS defences. Independently there are also two UK/US frigates in the immediate area as well. I do take your point about the P60 being in need of an upgrade with some enhanced radar and missile capabilities bolted on. Worth considering two of the fleet for upgrading.
    All the same I think you are being a little harsh in your criticism of the ships capabilities as it has pretty good CIWS gear on board and an experienced crew. Considering the RN felt that the vastly inferior River class OPV would suffice for the maritime defence of the Falklands. Enjoy the rest of your day lads!


    There's no threat to the Falklands at all (the Argentinean Navy is a non force). Nor does the P6 have a CWIS system at all, and Irish experience for joint operations is limited. And again, there's little value to saying "here's a OPV, would you mind making sure your frigates stay close enough to protect them".


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    #36
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    All the same I think you are being a little harsh in your criticism of the ships capabilities as it has pretty good CIWS gear on board




    There is no CIWS on any Irish Naval Vessel. They do not have missiles fired at them.


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    #37
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well given the Labour returns, this isn't really going to be a thing anyway.


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    #38
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I wasn't talking about missile defences. I was referring to secondary arnament such as the Rheinmetall cannon and the HMGs


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    #39
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    I wasn't talking about missile defences. I was referring to secondary arnament such as the Rheinmetall cannon and the HMGs


    Which are not a CWIS system, they are secondary weapons which would still be limited in any high intensity engagements.


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    #40
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Somehow me last post hot deleted. I was just pointing out that the 20 ml Rheinmetall cannon is very effective against AIRCRAFT. Thats why the Luftwaffe use it to defend their bases.
    Anyway. The chance of a squadron of Migs appearin over the hrizon are virtually nil on this mission. A few auld Arabs in RIBs with a Kalashnikov or two and a few hand grenades is a more likely scenario, so with the drone reconaissance vehicle on board and ready to detect any disreputable elements over the horizon then I reckon the lads could knock seven bells of Sh#t out of any threat with the HMGS and the 20 m and the oto melara. And with the air cover provided by other allied dorces sure there would be a flock of Apatches overhead on no time at all if needed.


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    #41
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    So you're talking Sh!te again then.


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    #42
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Just another opinion.


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    #43
    Lord Fairlord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭Lord Fairlord


    the_syco wrote: »
    We don't have the money to pay the existing soldiers, so you want to buy aircraft?

    We do have the money just not the will.
    Just one example of where money could be saved elsewhere; in other countries their equivalent of the dole tapers off over time.


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    #44
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    sure there would be a flock of Apatches overhead on no time at all if needed.


    A flock of Apaches :pac::confused:


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    #45
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Well... I see Cathal Berry got elected as TD so I imagine even meself and Sparky could agree on that one and "Raise Three Rousin Cheers for Dan Kelly the Boy from Killan


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    #46
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Somehow me last post hot deleted. I was just pointing out that the 20 ml Rheinmetall cannon is very effective against AIRCRAFT. Thats why the Luftwaffe use it to defend their bases.

    Why would a threat aircraft get to within range of a Rheinmetall 20mm on a ship?

    At least with runway denial munitions, you have to fly right over the target. Besides, that was a 1972 acquisition, they've been withdrawn from service. Something about missiles and radar-directed guns being better.


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    #47
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Why would a threat aircraft get to within range of a Rheinmetall 20mm on a ship?

    At least with runway denial munitions, you have to fly right over the target. Besides, that was a 1972 acquisition, they've been withdrawn from service. Something about missiles and radar-directed guns being better.

    Because thats not how it's done in "Warlord" and "Battle and Action".


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    #48
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,838 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I wouldn't pay much attention to Labour's plan. Their idealogy is all about the public sector and spending big on all aspects for employment and wage levels. The DF mention is just that,vote hunting. Didn't work in any case.

    Its excellent to have Cathal Berry as a TD nonetheless, both for pay and conditions as well as the profile and positioning of the DF in Irish society.


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    #49
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Ah Sparky! Terrific series of points covered there in your penultimate post! Of course nobody in their right minds would even consider sending a P60 down the Gulf single handed on account of issues you raised! Hence my suggestion that it could have nipped down there to accompany the three frigates currently on station thanks to France Netherlands and Germany, which would provide any air cover or other sophisticated AA and AS defences. Independently there are also two UK/US frigates in the immediate area as well. I do take your point about the P60 being in need of an upgrade with some enhanced radar and missile capabilities bolted on. Worth considering two of the fleet for upgrading.
    All the same I think you are being a little harsh in your criticism of the ships capabilities as it has pretty good CIWS gear on board and an experienced crew. Considering the RN felt that the vastly inferior River class OPV would suffice for the maritime defence of the Falklands. Enjoy the rest of your day lads!

    I dont think you even read Sparkys explanation at all. One point was that the P60's cannot replenish underway. How the fork would a little OPV stay with three Frigates?? Think man, THINK FOR ONCE!!


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    #50
    jonnybigwallet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Simple. They would replenish from the main fleet. Or pop into a friendly harbour such Spain or Italy or Greece or even closer ports of call in area and bang bang bang! Job sorted!


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    #51
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Simple. They would replenish from the main fleet. Or pop into a friendly harbour such Spain or Italy or Greece or even closer ports of call in area and bang bang bang! Job sorted!


    OH FFS, No.


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    #52
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,838 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Simple. They would replenish from the main fleet. Or pop into a friendly harbour such Spain or Italy or Greece or even closer ports of call in area and bang bang bang! Job sorted!

    Just the 50 knots to catch up after so?

    Have you ever left the house?


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    #53
    Heraldoffreeent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Just the 50 knots to catch up after so?

    Have you ever left the house?

    You mean the Home?


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    #54
    Leonidas BL
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    jonnybigwallet wrote: »
    Simple. They would replenish from the main fleet. Or pop into a friendly harbour such Spain or Italy or Greece or even closer ports of call in area and bang bang bang! Job sorted!

    LMFAO

    Heeeeehawwwww


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