Fundraiser for student nurses

20-01-2021 1:39pm #1

I read a headline in today's Independent where a student nurse had to decide between topping up her Leapcard or eating. They are working for €100 a week.

If there were to be an ongoing fundraiser to supplement student nurses income, what would be a good way to do it? At least until such a time that we are through the pandemic.

Considering that they are working at the frontline of the biggest pandemic we have ever seen, in a very dangerous environment every day, surely there must be a way where the country could do a whip-around. If half a million people contributed €5, the price of a pint, that is €2.5 million. Considering that there is approx 2,000 student nurses (correct me if Im wrong), that would work out at €1,250 per nurse. Even if 500,000 people donated €5 every two weeks, that would give the student nurses €600 each a week on top of their €100. I wouldn't miss €2.50 per week.

I think we owe it to them, it would be good a way to show gratitude for their efforts.

Mad_maxx · 20-01-2021 1:54pm

you go first

20-01-2021 1:59pm

Excellent idea, OP.

They should be paid a full wage when on work experience at the best of times, but not being paid a full wage during a pandemic...a scandal. Absolutely shameful.

Amirani · 20-01-2021 2:01pm

Their training placements in hospitals have been stopped, so they're not currently working.

4th year nurses are still doing their intern work and are getting paid more than €100 per week.

20-01-2021 2:03pm

Amirani wrote: »

They are no longer doing their training placements in hospitals, so they're not currently working.

We'll consider it a reimbursement so.

YellowLead · 20-01-2021 2:15pm

OP I think it’s a very noble idea and I commend you.

Would it be worth reaching out to any group or body/club for student nurses to see what they think and how they could assist?
I think there would be a lot of questions about how best to distribute the funds if x was raised. I know it wouldn’t be assessed based on need the assumption is they are all deserving - but if only a small amount is raised do they all get 5 euro? That could be a lot of work for very little return on an individual basis. Just playing devils advocate - fair dues for the idea.

Montage of Feck · 20-01-2021 2:34pm

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

KaneToad · 20-01-2021 2:36pm

How would this student afford to eat & get to college if she weren't on a training placement?

505_ · 20-01-2021 2:38pm

It is crazy that this issue has gone on for pretty much the duration of the pandemic. They are doing an incredibly difficult job and a lot of these students you’d imagine are living at home. Literally putting themselves and their families at risk. The government has failed them. Anyone arguing it’s a work placement doesn’t change the fact they’re working a job a lot of us, myself included wouldn’t be able for.

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2021 2:38pm

not surprised, wont change either, no wonder the special needs situation is worsening

Your Face · 20-01-2021 2:44pm

I'd need a more detailed break-down of their pay and hours before Id contribute to a fundraiser.

silver2020 · 20-01-2021 2:44pm

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They also get their grants (like most students)

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Sure feck it, lets pay all students massive salaries whilst in college + grants + allowances + free education. - Who's volunteering a 5% increase in PAYE and the dropping of tax allowances of about 20% to pay for this?

The nursing union have some very good mouthpieces and far topo many people believe every word out of the union's mouth with questioning it. they play the sympathy card as well as those sh1te ads on tv for concern, trocaire and dogs trust.

.anon. · 20-01-2021 3:04pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

How about not setting workers against each other.

Lux23 · 20-01-2021 3:04pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

But they aren't entitled to PUP if they are not unemployed?

KungPao · 20-01-2021 3:08pm

Some of those student nurses I see around my local hospital are well worth “a donation”.

Amirani · 20-01-2021 3:12pm

505_ wrote: »

It is crazy that this issue has gone on for pretty much the duration of the pandemic. They are doing an incredibly difficult job and a lot of these students you’d imagine are living at home. Literally putting themselves and their families at risk. The government has failed them. Anyone arguing it’s a work placement doesn’t change the fact they’re working a job a lot of us, myself included wouldn’t be able for.

Should student doctors or student physios be paid too? They're also going to hospitals and putting themselves and their families at risk.

biko · 20-01-2021 3:25pm

Reduce the government's pensions and pay the nurses from that fund.

Hoboo · 20-01-2021 3:26pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

Teachers are still teaching, are they not?

Mad_maxx · 20-01-2021 4:43pm

Amirani wrote: »

Should student doctors or student physios be paid too? They're also going to hospitals and putting themselves and their families at risk.

they arent special like nurses

Wanderer78 · 20-01-2021 8:07pm

biko wrote: »

Reduce the government's pensions and pay the nurses from that fund.

just borrow the fcuking money, deficits arent the work of the devil, and by not investing in our youth now, is far more dangerous than having a deficit

Purple Mountain · 20-01-2021 8:09pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

Becaus4 PUP rates are only paid to people who are currently unemployed.

ohnonotgmail · 21-01-2021 11:02am

silver2020 wrote: »

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They also get their grants (like most students)

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Sure feck it, lets pay all students massive salaries whilst in college + grants + allowances + free education. - Who's volunteering a 5% increase in PAYE and the dropping of tax allowances of about 20% to pay for this?

The nursing union have some very good mouthpieces and far topo many people believe every word out of the union's mouth with questioning it. they play the sympathy card as well as those sh1te ads on tv for concern, trocaire and dogs trust.

Student garda get €184 a week plus free food and accommodation.

weisses · 21-01-2021 11:07am

silver2020 wrote: »

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They also get their grants (like most students)

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Sure feck it, lets pay all students massive salaries whilst in college + grants + allowances + free education. - Who's volunteering a 5% increase in PAYE and the dropping of tax allowances of about 20% to pay for this?

The nursing union have some very good mouthpieces and far topo many people believe every word out of the union's mouth with questioning it. they play the sympathy card as well as those sh1te ads on tv for concern, trocaire and dogs trust.

What a load of waffle

the beer revolu · 21-01-2021 11:27am

weisses wrote: »

What a load of waffle

Your counter argument is spectacular.

noodler · 21-01-2021 11:29am

silver2020 wrote: »

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They also get their grants (like most students)

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Sure feck it, lets pay all students massive salaries whilst in college + grants + allowances + free education. - Who's volunteering a 5% increase in PAYE and the dropping of tax allowances of about 20% to pay for this?

The nursing union have some very good mouthpieces and far topo many people believe every word out of the union's mouth with questioning it. they play the sympathy card as well as those sh1te ads on tv for concern, trocaire and dogs trust.

Thank God.

It's not popular to say but good post.

weisses · 21-01-2021 11:35am

the beer revolu wrote: »

Your counter argument is spectacular.

Its up to the poster to put out the correct information. Not really interested in spoon-feeding

the beer revolu · 21-01-2021 11:37am

weisses wrote: »

Its up to the poster to put out the correct information. Not really interested in spoon-feeding

No, really.
The way you countered everything they said, point by point. It was brilliant.

Are you a barrister, per chance?

weisses · 21-01-2021 11:55am

the beer revolu wrote: »

No, really.
The way you countered everything they said, point by point. It was brilliant.

Are you a barrister, per chance?

Nope ....Student nurse.

givyjoe · 21-01-2021 11:59am

weisses wrote: »

What a load of waffle

Are any of the bullet points they posted incorrect? If they are, would you like to post the correct info? Seems like the opposite of waffle to me.

AMKC · 21-01-2021 12:05pm

Even if 500,000 people donated €5 every two weeks, that would give the student nurses €600 each a week on top of their €100. I wouldn't miss €2.50 per week.

Surely an extra 600 a month would do them. They would not know what to do with on extra 600 a week. That's like 2400 extra a month on top of the 400 they get. 600 a month and the 400 they get is a grand. You do not want to be earning too much to soon and then end up going on a lower pay at some stage later on. Better for it to be the other way. A grand a month would be plenty for them.

21-01-2021 12:07pm

weisses wrote: »

Nope ....Student nurse.

Not buying it.

cruizer101 · 21-01-2021 12:15pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.
They also get their grants (like most students)

Everyone has access to free 3rd level education (its not really free but thats a different matter) and everyone has the same potential access to grants regardless of college course (a lot of people not eligible for grants wouldn't have a whole lot of money), so I don't really see the relevance of these points.

silver2020 wrote: »

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They do get some allowances but nowhere near enough to cover costs, they often have to do placements in other hospitals and the allowances do not cover the accommodation costs for this.

silver2020 wrote: »

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Some? 36 weeks of fulltime work, which they get paid about minimum wage.
Again not sure how relevant this is, the argument for paying students nurses isn't really for the final year ones.

silver2020 wrote: »

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Fair enough the first years who are in for very short placements aren't doing a huge amount but in later years there is not insignificant responsibilities.

silver2020 wrote: »

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Students gardai are paid to the best of my knowledge.
One big difference compared to teachers is students teachers are in excess to the paid teaching staff, if they weren't there it wouldn't matter, they are not relied upon to be there as there is a full time teacher there anyway.
Student nurses are relied upon as an extra staff member, they are timetabled to be in as a fully working member of staff.

YellowLead · 21-01-2021 12:21pm

AMKC wrote: »

Even if 500,000 people donated €5 every two weeks, that would give the student nurses €600 each a week on top of their €100. I wouldn't miss €2.50 per week.

Surely an extra 600 a month would do them. They would not know what to do with on extra 600 a week. That's like 2400 extra a month on top of the 400 they get. 600 a month and the 400 they get is a grand. You do not want to be earning too much to soon and then end up going on a lower pay at some stage later on. Better for it to be the other way. A grand a month would be plenty for them.

Yeah but there isn’t a hope in hell you would get 500k people to donate 10 a month.

the beer revolu · 21-01-2021 12:22pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Student nurses are relied upon as an extra staff member, they are timetabled to be in as a fully working member of staff.

Don't the HSE dispute that this is the case?

ohnonotgmail · 21-01-2021 12:27pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Don't the HSE dispute that this is the case?

I'm sure they do. Would you believe them?

weisses · 21-01-2021 12:32pm

givyjoe wrote: »

Are any of the bullet points they posted incorrect? If they are, would you like to post the correct info? Seems like the opposite of waffle to me.

Yes they are incorrect or partly incorrect ...The correct information is readily available though ... That's why I said the post was waffle. If you cannot be arsed to do a small bit of research before making a post like that I feel not inclined to type a rebuttal ... But I wil try to address some of the points made with the current covid crisis in mind

1. There is a significant cohort of students who are paying fees because this is not their first third level course.

2. Allowances are laughable (50 euro a week) and have not been revised since 2004 ...Many places are not offering accommodations to STN anymore because of covid I pay 50 euro per night while on placement ..Travel expenses are basically non existent

3 Grands are given on a case to case basis .... I know plenty of students who are not getting a grand or only a small portion

4 Cheap shot stating 4th years doing "some" clinical work ...Majority of interns I know are currently working on covid wards and are dealing with their own case load depending from 2-8 patients at a time ...

5. Another cheap dig ..We are not doing "basic minding" work.. Based on the ward We are doing patient observations, performing ECG's washing patient's, feeding them, doing wound care, incontinence care, we are there to lend an ear when patients are going through a rough patch plus so many more tasks. Nurses are up the walls due to COVID so logically more responsibility falls on the student nurse while on placement.

ohnonotgmail · 21-01-2021 12:34pm

weisses wrote: »

Yes they are incorrect or partly incorrect ...The correct information is readily available though ... That's why I said the post was waffle. If you cannot be arsed to do a small bit of research before making a post like that I feel not inclined to type a rebuttal ... But I wil try to address some of the points made with the current covid crisis in mind

1. There is a significant cohort of students who are paying fees because this is not their first third level course.

2. Allowances are laughable (50 euro a week) and have not been revised since 2004 ...Many places are not offering accommodations to STN anymore because of covid I pay 50 euro per night while on placement ..Travel expenses are basically non existent

3 Grands are given on a case to case basis .... I know plenty of students who are not getting a grand or only a small portion

4 Cheap shot stating 4th years doing "some" clinical work ...Majority of interns I know are currently working on covid wards and are dealing with their own case load depending from 2-8 patients at a time ...

5. Another cheap dig ..We are not doing "basic minding" work.. Based on the ward We are doing patient observations, performing ECG's washing patient's, feeding them, doing wound care, incontinence care, we are there to lend an ear when patients are going through a rough patch plus so many more tasks. Nurses are up the walls due to COVID so logically more responsibility falls on the student nurse while on placement.

does this article sum up the real situation? https://www.thejournal.ie/students-nurses-payment-issue-unpaid-placements-5291130-Dec2020/

Paulzx · 21-01-2021 12:40pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

So everyone working from home should be on PUP?

Cool idea

weisses · 21-01-2021 12:40pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

does this article sum up the real situation? https://www.thejournal.ie/students-nurses-payment-issue-unpaid-placements-5291130-Dec2020/

It does to an extend, situation for Students deteriorated even more I think

TheSegal · 21-01-2021 12:41pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

How about paying the teachers the pup rates like everyone else and give the savings to the nurses.

Why would you give teachers the PUP rate? They are working from home teaching classes, should everyone who isn't in an office right now be given the PUP, sure we are all at home so we must be doing **** all work right?

2lazytogetup · 21-01-2021 12:48pm

nurses are a funny bunch.

Talk to a 17year old putting nursing as first choice on the CAO. EVeryone warns them and tells them its tough work and the pay isn't great. But they are idealists and want to help people.

So they become nurses, and after a few years of caring, their priorities change, family, mortgage etc, and they realise they need money.

So they go on strike for more money. and the government hates giving into them cause when they do, gardai and teachers union will go on strike too seeing the nurses got more. And its hard for the government to say no, cause everyone loves nursese, even pre covid. just talk to anyone going into hospital and they are so grateful of the hard work they do.

its a catch-22. i do think a full report is needed. dont think one example of a nurse saying she has no phone credit as she needed to pay for a bus to work should decide Irelands public sector pay policy.

givyjoe · 21-01-2021 12:56pm

TheSegal wrote: »

Why would you give teachers the PUP rate? They are working from home teaching classes, should everyone who isn't in an office right now be given the PUP, sure we are all at home so we must be doing **** all work right?

How much work/effort each teacher is putting in seems to vary wildly. Many people WFH are able to work, just as, if not more efficiently from home. The same work is still getting done, if not more (in my case, my team and many other people/companies i know). That is clearly not the case with teachers, how could it be if there's so many calls for the LC to be scrapped. You simply cannot provide the same level of quality teaching remotely, to that many students. The younger they are, the more difficult it is id wager too.

Amirani · 21-01-2021 12:59pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Student nurses are relied upon as an extra staff member, they are timetabled to be in as a fully working member of staff.

Are you saying that 1st and 2nd year nursing students are rostered as full staff members?

lawred2 · 21-01-2021 1:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Excellent idea, OP.

They should be paid a full wage when on work experience at the best of times, but not being paid a full wage during a pandemic...a scandal. Absolutely shameful.

huh?

what's a "full wage"?

relative to who or what?

Edgware · 21-01-2021 1:19pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Remember these students get near free excellent training through college.

They also get allowances - both travel & accommadation

They also get their grants (like most students)

Final year nursing students who do some clinical work get about 20k a year.

Those not in final year do very basic "minding" work when on placements.

Next student gardai will want payment (that is as sure as night following day), student teachers (100% certain too).

Sure feck it, lets pay all students massive salaries whilst in college + grants + allowances + free education. - Who's volunteering a 5% increase in PAYE and the dropping of tax allowances of about 20% to pay for this?

The nursing union have some very good mouthpieces and far topo many people believe every word out of the union's mouth with questioning it. they play the sympathy card as well as those sh1te ads on tv for concern, trocaire and dogs trust.

Stop posting rubbish. Shure arent the nurses great. I saw one doing her shopping in Tesco the other day. She's so busy she didnt have time to change out of her uniform.

Mimon · 21-01-2021 1:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I read a headline in today's Independent where a student nurse had to decide between topping up her Leapcard or eating. They are working for €100 a week.

If there were to be an ongoing fundraiser to supplement student nurses income, what would be a good way to do it? At least until such a time that we are through the pandemic.

Considering that they are working at the frontline of the biggest pandemic we have ever seen, in a very dangerous environment every day, surely there must be a way where the country could do a whip-around. If half a million people contributed €5, the price of a pint, that is €2.5 million. Considering that there is approx 2,000 student nurses (correct me if Im wrong), that would work out at €1,250 per nurse. Even if 500,000 people donated €5 every two weeks, that would give the student nurses €600 each a week on top of their €100. I wouldn't miss €2.50 per week.

I think we owe it to them, it would be good a way to show gratitude for their efforts.

Christ the quality of topics on boards has gone to ****e.

Paulzx · 21-01-2021 1:26pm

givyjoe wrote: »

How much work/effort each teacher is putting in seems to vary wildly. Many people WFH are able to work, just as, if not more efficiently from home. The same work is still getting done, if not more (in my case, my team and many other people/companies i know). That is clearly not the case with teachers, how could it be if there's so many calls for the LC to be scrapped. You simply cannot provide the same level of quality teaching remotely, to that many students. The younger they are, the more difficult it is id wager too.

There's plenty of people swinging the lead working from home across the board including teachers.

To try and make out that everyone working from home apart from teachers are diligent worker bees 100% commited to the hive is laughable.

Sure before Covid i had mates in the IT sector playing golf midweek with me who used to laugh that they were "working from home"

givyjoe · 21-01-2021 1:31pm

Paulzx wrote: »

There's plenty of people swinging the lead working from home across the board including teachers.

To try and make out that everyone working from home apart from teachers are diligent worker bees 100% commited to the hive is laughable.

Sure before Covid i had mates in the IT sector playing golf midweek with me who used to laugh that they were "working from home"

That's completely and utterly irrelevant and down to managers to sort out, it's fairly easy to spot. You either do work or you dont, you have output to show your boss or you dont. The point is those folks can work just as effectively from home, teachers cannot, no matter how hard they work. Whether they (non teachers) choose to or not is a different story but there's also a consequence if they dont. There seems to be absolutely no consequences for teachers who choose to not bother their arse.

Edgware · 21-01-2021 1:32pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

nurses are a funny bunch.

Talk to a 17year old putting nursing as first choice on the CAO. EVeryone warns them and tells them its tough work and the pay isn't great. But they are idealists and want to help people.

So they become nurses, and after a few years of caring, their priorities change, family, mortgage etc, and they realise they need money.

So they go on strike for more money. and the government hates giving into them cause when they do, gardai and teachers union will go on strike too seeing the nurses got more. And its hard for the government to say no, cause everyone loves nursese, even pre covid. just talk to anyone going into hospital and they are so grateful of the hard work they do.

its a catch-22. i do think a full report is needed. dont think one example of a nurse saying she has no phone credit as she needed to pay for a bus to work should decide Irelands public sector pay policy.

Like every other job there are different levels of effort required.
Front line A and E dealing with all types of emergencies,
strokes, accidents, assault victims, druggie dirtbirds, spunkers etc.
Ward nurses, pre op, post op, I.C.U. Cancer patients etc

Then the handy numbers, taking blood, assisting in the X Ray dept, etc.

If student nurses are actually doing full time nurses duties certainly they deserve payment. However lets not pretend that anything other is nothing but a money grab. It wasnt paid work before the pandemic and it shouldnt be paid work now.
The Nursing Unions agitated for a degree course which is student based for four years. Having got it the training of nurses changed. They moved away from the days of the "tyrant" matron checking their turnout and how good they made up the beds and empty chamber pots. Having said that I know a lot of older nurses who speak very fondly and highly of the same "tyrant matron"
We had no MRSA in the wards then. The Specialists and Consultants wouldnt dare cross Matron.

lawred2 · 21-01-2021 1:34pm

Paulzx wrote: »

There's plenty of people swinging the lead working from home across the board including teachers.

To try and make out that everyone working from home apart from teachers are diligent worker bees 100% commited to the hive is laughable.

Sure before Covid i had mates in the IT sector playing golf midweek with me who used to laugh that they were "working from home"

that's entirely plausible and meaningless at the same time

full time working from home as an IT professional means you could play golf in the morning and still be on the clock for a minimum of 8 hours a day

Richard Hillman · 21-01-2021 1:36pm

Set up an NGO. Ask the public for money. Pay yourself a handsome salary. Give whatever is left over to the nurses.

Fundraiser for student nurses

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