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When did Catholicism fall out with Communism?

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  • 15-12-2007 11:54pm
    #1
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,282 ✭✭✭✭


    While searching for something else, I came across this. http://www.geocities.com/IrelandSCW/docs-CHsiege.htm

    I'm wondering when did Catholicism fall out with Communism? Much of the support for Fascism in the 1930s was in reality pro-Church anti-communism, certainly in Ireland, Spain and Italy.

    Any ideas?


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    #2
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Comparatively, you might want to review Paulo Freire's works (e.g., The Pedgagogy of the Oppressed, 1972)? They appear to be a blend of Catholicism and Communism that took hold in Brasil? Although not strictly Marxist, there was a radical Marxian leaning by Brasilian "Catholic Action" beginning in the late 1920's and extending well into the 1960's, especially by radical Catholic university groups. That historical movement continues to affect Catholicism and higher education in Brasil to this day.


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    #3
    bus77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭bus77


    Victor wrote: »
    While searching for something else, I came across this. http://www.geocities.com/IrelandSCW/docs-CHsiege.htm

    The link isnt working.


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    #4
    bus77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭bus77


    Found it cached on google. http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:oLW_YlLDJgAJ:www.geocities.com/IrelandSCW/docs-CHsiege.htm+http://www.geocities.com/IrelandSCW/docs-CHsiege.htm&hl=en&client=firefox-a&gl=ie&strip=0

    I never knew there was organized anti-communist action like that here. I'd love to see the 'memo' that must have been sent out to the priests with what to say about communism.

    Is it really that strange though? In the 1930's the Russian 'purges' were at their height.

    I've heard it said that on a more fundamental level church people were anti socialist because they were advocating scientific education of history and society and consequently a threat the Bible itself. Thats fair enough but I can't help flipping that and saying Socialists were anti bible because, in a certain light, It shows a critical review of a revolution. Heaven forbid the masses discovering they would probably get Barabbas instead of Jesus.


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    #5
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    It happened pretty much straight away. The twin threats of nationalisation of property and a classless society was too much for the Catholic church to swallow, being such a big landowner and social elite. Especially in Italy, where the Pope still had claims to a wide swathe of the country after the unification of Italy. Even in Ireland the Church is still one of the biggest landowners I'd wager.


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    #6
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I thought Communism and religion in general were not the best of friends. Opium of the people and all that.


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    #7
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Well I've never heard anything about protestant churches decrying it, but they possibly did.


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    #8
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Well I've never heard anything about protestant churches decrying it, but they possibly did.

    I don't think protestant churches decry anything. The current Pope seems to be doing his best to move Catholicism back 200 years whereas all other branches of Christianity seem to be embracing the 21st century.


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    #9
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I don't think protestant churches decry anything. The current Pope seems to be doing his best to move Catholicism back 200 years whereas all other branches of Christianity seem to be embracing the 21st century.
    The (protestant) Religious Right in the USA that supported Bush in the past two elections may be a large exception?


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    #10
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    The (protestant) Religious Right in the USA that supported Bush in the past two elections may be a large exception?

    True, although wold they be classed as a "Church" as such, or just a group of extermists?

    Protestant is too loose a term as well, it covers pretty much everything that is not Catholic or Orthodox.


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    #11
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I thought Communism and religion in general were not the best of friends. Opium of the people and all that.

    This is the same thing I was thinking.

    I didn't think Cathoicism was ever in with communism in the first place, so how could it fall out with it?


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    #12
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    True, although wold they be classed as a "Church" as such, or just a group of extermists?
    The Southern Baptist church is quite large in the USA, with millions of members, especially in the Old South. They would never consider themselves extremists, but rather fundamentalists. Jerry Falwell, a tele-preacher has a huge following in the States, supported Bush, and would call himself and his followers a large part of the Silent Majority in the USA (not sure of his protestant denomination). So I doubt extremist would fit?


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    #13
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    The Southern Baptist church is quite large in the USA, with millions of members, especially in the Old South. They would never consider themselves extremists, but rather fundamentalists. Jerry Falwell, a tele-preacher has a huge following in the States, supported Bush, and would call himself and his followers a large part of the Silent Majority in the USA (not sure of his protestant denomination). So I doubt extremist would fit?

    Fair enough, I didn't know that.

    Maybe nutters would be a better description?:D


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