Will Ireland ever have a top level player in tennis?

Chivito550 · 28-01-2019 2:59pm #1

I’ve watched tennis for 25 years and there has never been an Irish player who would regularly qualify for grand slams and go on a decent run every now and again. No man. No woman.

Irish people watch tennis casually. While it’s not super popular, more people probably watch tennis in this country than other sports which we do far better at (athletics, rowing etc).

Why are we so hopeless at tennis?

What can be done about it?

Will we ever have a top 50 ranked player to root for? Maybe even a top 20 player?

28-01-2019 3:23pm

barring a complete freak being born into a wealthy family who love tennis and put a racket in his/her hand at 2 and who can support him/her, being sent abroad at an early age to practice 6 hours a day to Spain/US and not getting involved in other sports like rugby etc can't see it happening.

there have been plenty of Irish people who went to the US on tennis scholarships for university but that's not the way elite players get produced as it's too late.

need to be fully focused on tennis from age 10 and playing it from 4.

walshb · 28-01-2019 4:30pm

It’s too far down the pecking order here...it requires a little bit more than many other more accessible sports. Pumping money into it may help, but likely wasted money..we don’t have the population interest.

Not sure we have the general population make-up to produce naturally good players..

Johnmb · 28-01-2019 5:08pm

We probably have about as much chance of producing a world class player as Scotland... i.e. not much chance at all, but never say never.

28-01-2019 5:48pm

Johnmb wrote: »

We probably have about as much chance of producing a world class player as Scotland... i.e. not much chance at all, but never say never.

the Scots can leverage UK funding so the support and development level is way ahead of what is in place in Ireland to be fair.

Johnmb · 28-01-2019 10:01pm

glasso wrote: »

the Scots can leverage UK funding so the support and development level is way ahead of what is in place in Ireland to be fair.

Not really. Murray went to Spain to train. The LTA in the UK were just as bad as TI, and even more so in Scotland from everything that's been said. Murray was an anomaly, and that's what it'll take for Ireland to get that kind of success. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

The Golden Miller · 28-01-2019 10:11pm

Tennis here has the stigma of being one of the "queen's" sports. It's origins here are within "the realm", unlike in most other countries where it's just another international sport. The extension of this is the private clubs mentality, it's still a sport of the elite and inaccessible to most. Also, as another follow up, no infrastructure on developing young players

28-01-2019 10:12pm

Johnmb wrote: »

Not really. Murray went to Spain to train. The LTA in the UK were just as bad as TI, and even more so in Scotland from everything that's been said. Murray was an anomaly, and that's what it'll take for Ireland to get that kind of success. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

he went to Spain off his own back as he saw that his brother (the guy playing doubles now) didn't progress enough.

Even years ago the support in England was leagues ahead of Ireland.

I knew a guy who was on a special tennis scholarship with Tin Henman at a boarding school in the UK from age 12. Henman came out of that.

There was and is nothing like that afaik in Ireland.

Johnmb · 28-01-2019 10:16pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Tennis here has the stigma of being one of the "queen's" sports. It's origins here are within "the realm", unlike in most other countries where it's just another international sport. The extension of this is the private clubs mentality, it's still a sport of the elite and inaccessible to most. Also, as another follow up, no infrastructure on developing young players

This is the first time I've ever heard the term "queen's" sports applied to tennis. It has had an elitist reputation though due to the cost of joining clubs, and the former waiting lists, joining fees, etc. They are long gone now though, no joining fees or waiting lists for about 95% of clubs, just show up and join.

TI don't know how to develop young players, or aren't interested because to do it right would require that they move away from the jobs for the boys mentality that runs rampant there...

paul71 · 28-01-2019 10:20pm

I will have to ask my Czech wife how a small country produced the argueably greatest male and and female players ever plus trainline of Grandslam winnerss.

Johnmb · 28-01-2019 10:22pm

glasso wrote: »

he went to Spain off his own back as he saw that his brother (the guy playing doubles now) didn't progress enough.

Even years ago the support in England was leagues ahead of Ireland.

I knew a guy who was on a special tennis scholarship with Tin Henman at a boarding school in the UK from age 12. Henman came out of that.

There was and is nothing like that afaik in Ireland.

The LTA had a reputation, valid or not, for being interested only in England. Scotland barely got a lookin. Judy basically had to fight them for everything, and they still ballsed up Jamie's progression, so the only reason Scotland had such successful players is because of a very stubborn parent, who knew what she was doing, taking her children somewhere else to train. The only way Ireland will get successful players is if an equally stubborn parent, who actually knows what they are doing, takes their child(ren) somewhere else to train.

Remind me · 28-01-2019 10:24pm

glasso wrote: »

barring a complete freak being born into a wealthy family who love tennis and put a racket in his/her hand at 2 and who can support him/her, being sent abroad at an early age to practice 6 hours a day to Spain/US and not getting involved in other sports like rugby etc can't see it happening.

there have been plenty of Irish people who went to the US on tennis scholarships for university but that's not the way elite players get produced as it's too late.

need to be fully focused on tennis from age 10 and playing it from 4.

Why wealthy?

28-01-2019 10:26pm

Johnmb wrote: »

The LTA had a reputation, valid or not, for being interested only in England. Scotland barely got a lookin. Judy basically had to fight them for everything, and they still ballsed up Jamie's progression, so the only reason Scotland had such successful players is because of a very stubborn parent, who knew what she was doing, taking her children somewhere else to train. The only way Ireland will get successful players is if an equally stubborn parent, who actually knows what they are doing, takes their child(ren) somewhere else to train.

you said that the LTA were as bad as TI tho.

what you say about the only way in Ireland that it would happen to produce a player I agree with - that's what I said in the 2nd post on this thread.

28-01-2019 10:27pm

Remind me wrote: »

Why wealthy?

to pay for a tennis academy education abroad from maybe 10/11 years old. who is going to hand you that sort of money for potential in a child that young?

The Golden Miller · 28-01-2019 10:29pm

Johnmb wrote: »

This is the first time I've ever heard the term "queen's" sports applied to tennis. It has had an elitist reputation though due to the cost of joining clubs, and the former waiting lists, joining fees, etc. They are long gone now though, no joining fees or waiting lists for about 95% of clubs, just show up and join.

TI don't know how to develop young players, or aren't interested because to do it right would require that they move away from the jobs for the boys mentality that runs rampant there...

I've regularly heard that from people who scoff at the idea of even watching tennis. Admittedly, as time went on, that's not the case anymore. But it does still have that remnant stigma attached to it, where it's not even considered within circles of young people playing sport. Traditional "elitism" in Ireland would very much be wrapped up in associations with Britain, calling something a "queen's sport" would be a flippant passing comment

Remind me · 28-01-2019 10:37pm

glasso wrote: »

to pay for a tennis academy education abroad from maybe 10/11 years old. who is going to hand you that sort of money for potential in a child that young?

Is there no underage set up in Ireland?

I’m just trying to compare to another individual sport like golf where we would have regular success.

28-01-2019 10:46pm

Remind me wrote: »

Is there no underage set up in Ireland?

I’m just trying to compare to another individual sport like golf where we would have regular success.

It needs to be at the required level of coaching, other students/ practice opponents and facilities.

Nowhere near the required level exists in Ireland.

Good weather is also an advantage.

Gonad · 28-01-2019 10:48pm

I’d say we have about as much chance of producing a 2 weight ufc world champ

Oh wait ...

Remind me · 28-01-2019 10:50pm

glasso wrote: »

It needs to be at the required level of coaching, other students/ practice opponents and facilities.

Nowhere near the required level exists in Ireland.

Good weather is also an advantage.

Good weather an advantage but certainly not a necessity with indoor courts?

Just sounds like numbers don’t exist to make the game competitive here?

AllForIt · 28-01-2019 11:06pm

Tennis is looked down on in this country because of the overwhelming interest in team sports. If it's not a team sport then it's just some womens thing, not a real mans sport. Unless it's boxing where most ppl can understand a good punch, without too much effort.

Also, tennis is a highly skilled sport unlike football for example. Probably the most highly skilled imo. Most armchairs viewers of tennis haven't a clue the nuances of the sport as they can't be gleaned by simply watching it on TV. The complexities of the serve go over the head of most armchair viewers unless you study it, if your interested.

Tennis isn't exactly a working class sport and working class sports dominate in this country.

SophieLockhart · 28-01-2019 11:06pm

It's a good question and one that's been asked for years without a satisfactory answer.

Some say we don't have enough numbers playing, but the name recognition of the major stars is huge here, and anyone who could make it would be straight onto the A list, perhaps even more so then the golfers whom we're fairly accustomed to reaching the top.

A few names have been bandied about lately but they don't seem to be progressing much.

shutup · 28-01-2019 11:25pm

Ever is a long time but I can’t see it happening anytime soon.
The culture is just not in this country.
- The pull of team sports takes away the talent.
No history/tradition
No funding.
No infrastructure and not enough support to build it.
Crap weather.
Small numbers playing.
Massive cost involved.
Only rich kids playing whose parents value education above all else.
Drinking/socializing/quitting/ lack of confidence culture

It’s all against us but hopefully a gift from god will give us something to cheer about.

That kid would have to get out of ireland ASAP to avoid the above mentioned

shutup · 28-01-2019 11:30pm

By the way. Great to see some real Tennis talk on boards. We also need interest in local and low level Tennis to get more people involved which in turn gives more chance to unearth a world class Irish player.

Chivito550 · 28-01-2019 11:42pm

shutup wrote: »

Ever is a long time but I can’t see it happening anytime soon.
The culture is just not in this country.
- The pull of team sports takes away the talent.
No history/tradition
No funding.
No infrastructure and not enough support to build it.
Crap weather.
Small numbers playing.
Massive cost involved.
Only rich kids playing whose parents value education above all else.
Drinking/socializing/quitting/ lack of confidence culture

It’s all against us but hopefully a gift from god will give us something to cheer about.

That kid would have to get out of ireland ASAP to avoid the above mentioned

Interesting post.

No doubt team sports dominate, but many of the above factors also apply to athletics. It is very much a minority sport here, yet we do produce world class athletes. Not often, but we do produce them occasionally. In the past athletes had to go down the US Collegiate route to make it to the top, but not anymore. Right now we have a world class athlete in Thomas Barr, who trains in Limerick. Ciara Mageean is reasonably close to world class and has only recently moved to the UK after many years training in Ireland. There is a lot of exciting talent (almost exclusively on the women's side) coming through in sprints, middle distance and jumps (with a crazy amount of European U18 and World U20 medals claimed last year).

The sport gets decent funding, but it is hardly great. Nobody is making a good living off athletics in this country, that's for sure. Most are on no government funding at all. Coaches are still exclusively volunteers. There aren't enough tracks (only 3 outdoor 400m tracks in Dublin, and 5 if you include Leixlip and Greystones).

What makes athletics different from tennis? They both face very similar battles for column inches, funding, TV time etc in a nation obsessed with GAA, Soccer and Rugby. Is it a case that there are simply bigger numbers doing athletics than tennis, so a few squeeze through the net? Is it better coaching? Perhaps less of a barrier to entry re costs?

28-01-2019 11:48pm

you can run around a track anywhere and measure your time

tennis development is far more complex and depends a lot on getting a sufficient level of competition and learning from your matches.

This needs to start at an early age (11 max these days I would say)

That's why those tennis academies are successful - they provide an intensive training environment with lots of practice matches.

I know that the guy Simon Carr went off to play on the futures circuit at maybe age 16 - I'm not sure where he is based out of.

Doesn't seem to have made a lot of progress over the last couple of years.

https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100224982

Chivito550 · 28-01-2019 11:53pm

glasso wrote: »

you can run around a track anywhere and measure your time

tennis development is far more complex and depends a lot on getting a sufficient level of competition and learning from your matches.

This needs to start at an early age (11 max these days I would say)

That's why those tennis academies are successful - they provide an intensive training environment with lots of practice matches.

I know that the guy Simon Carr went off to play on the futures circuit at maybe age 16 - I'm not sure where he is based out of.

Doesn't seem to have made a lot of progress over the last couple of years.

https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100224982

I take your point about tennis, but you are simplifying athletics a lot. There's a lot more to the sport than running around a track and recording your time. Lots of little details that go into something that the average punter on the street thinks is "just running and jumping".

28-01-2019 11:58pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

I take your point about tennis, but you are simplifying athletics a lot. There's a lot more to the sport than running around a track and recording your time. Lots of little details that go into something that the average punter on the street thinks is "just running and jumping".

yes I appreciate that.

but required competition level is the key factor in tennis and we certainly don't have that in Ireland. you need to be playing several matches a week.

NIMAN · 28-01-2019 11:59pm

Irish tennis players would need to start juicing big time if they want to compete at any level.

Fr Tod Umptious · 29-01-2019 12:16am

Chivito550 wrote: »

I take your point about tennis, but you are simplifying athletics a lot. There's a lot more to the sport than running around a track and recording your time. Lots of little details that go into something that the average punter on the street thinks is "just running and jumping".

But any kid from any background can run in their local Community Games, and if they are any good they could very easily find themselves in a national competition.

And that's how they get their start.

That's not as easy with tennis

shutup · 29-01-2019 12:24am

Chivito, i take your point and we do well and I support our athletes but I suppose the difference is athletics covers loads of disiplines so when Thomas Barr is successful in just one you get to use athletics as an example.
It’s not like we compete at the medal table at the Olympics.
Tennis is a huge sport worldwide. Not broken into disciplines or wright classes. Hard to compete on a world level coming from Ireland.

Chivito550 · 29-01-2019 12:36am

shutup wrote: »

Chivito, i take your point and we do well and I support our athletes but I suppose the difference is athletics covers loads of disiplines so when Thomas Barr is successful in just one you get to use athletics as an example.
It’s not like we compete at the medal table at the Olympics.
Tennis is a huge sport worldwide. Not broken into disciplines or wright classes. Hard to compete on a world level coming from Ireland.

Fair point. Although to counteract that point somewhat, athletics, along with football, is the only truly global sport (there's no tennis in most of Africa, the Caribbean etc for example).

Also, while something like the shot putt is niche, long distance running is anything but. It is probably one of, if not the most accessible sport on a global level. The sheer numbers competing in it is huge. For somebody like Sonia O'Sullivan to get to the very top of that is nothing short of staggering.

Chivito550 · 29-01-2019 12:36am

Meant to ask, do tennis clubs in Ireland still have ludicrous rules that you must wear white when playing?

Remind me · 29-01-2019 12:47am

glasso wrote: »

you can run around a track anywhere and measure your time

tennis development is far more complex and depends a lot on getting a sufficient level of competition and learning from your matches.

This needs to start at an early age (11 max these days I would say)

That's why those tennis academies are successful - they provide an intensive training environment with lots of practice matches.

I know that the guy Simon Carr went off to play on the futures circuit at maybe age 16 - I'm not sure where he is based out of.

Doesn't seem to have made a lot of progress over the last couple of years.

https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=100224982

The numbers playing at a young age must be tiny if there is no competition amongst kids?

Ireland, presumably faces the same issues as many countries even ones that produce top quality players, that Greek lad in Oz last week, was he shipped off to the states or Spain to one of academies do you know?

The more you look into it the numbers at the top of the sport really are small.

shutup · 29-01-2019 12:50am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Meant to ask, do tennis clubs in Ireland still have ludicrous rules that you must wear white when playing?

In Dublin I think Donnybrook does. Fitzwilliam, Malahide, Elm Park, Templeouge certainly do. Can’t remember any more off the top of my head.
It is ridiculous alright but not as ridged as you might think. The rule is predominately white tops but tracksuit tops can be colored (I think). And most of the time it’s not enforced.

shutup · 29-01-2019 12:57am

Remind me wrote: »

The numbers playing at a young age must be tiny if there is no competition amongst kids?

Ireland, presumably faces the same issues as many countries even ones that produce top quality players, that Greek lad in Oz last week, was he shipped off to the states or Spain to one of academies do you know?

The more you look into it the numbers at the top of the sport really are small.

There is loads of competition. Tournaments all the time. There are what are called “Opens” throughout the year but especially in summer. You collect points to qualify for what is effectively the All ireland Tennis championship in fitzwilliam (know as Fitz), Inter Club leagues, a provincial tournament, the match play competition, primary and secondary schools cup and of course each club has its own in house competitions or “ladders”.

byronbay2 · 29-01-2019 1:12am

glasso wrote: »

barring a complete freak being born into a wealthy family who love tennis and put a racket in his/her hand at 2 and who can support him/her, being sent abroad at an early age to practice 6 hours a day to Spain/US and not getting involved in other sports like rugby etc can't see it happening.

Nail on the head, except for the "complete freak" bit! No player will ever make it playing from Ireland. The competition isn't there, the coaching isn't there and the support isn't there. Tennis Ireland is run by well-meaning amateurs (don't ask for my opinion of Munster Branch, who are not even well-meaning!), always short of cash. Bear in mind that the LTA has Wimbledon, a cash cow providing millions (£20m+) every year, and they have produced no world-class player, unless you count AM, who more-or-less did it on his own.

Ireland's second city has no indoor courts/training facilities ("bubble") and I see the elite under-age players training in the pissing rain and howling wind on flooded courts from Oct-Mar. Complete waste of time! As Glasso says, the only hope is wealthy parents of a determined child, who is willing to leave home at 12 to go to an academy and train/play with the best young players in Europe.

We certainly will never have a production line of world-class players but it is entirely possible that we could have 1 some day. It won't be any thanks to TI though, that's for sure!

Stevecw · 29-01-2019 1:32am

Our best hope would be somebody like Konta, who grew up in Australia and had everything in place to be a top player before moving to England. Now she is their No 1 & best Fed Cup player etc.
We need to get lucky like that with somebody who moves here, otherwise it's very hard to see it happen.

Joe_ Public · 29-01-2019 1:48am

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe conor niland hails from the wealthy or elitist background that has been referenced in some posts here. I doubt he had a great support network behind him for most of his formative years - outside of his tennis mad family, I mean - but he still made a good fist of breaking the atp top 100 and would have done better but for injury I believe. At one stage I think Murray was the only uk player ranked higher. While hugely difficult for all the reasons outlined above, surely it’s not impossible to conceive of a talent like nilands and to be given a reasonable chance of fulfilling his/ her potential?

byronbay2 · 29-01-2019 1:54am

Stevecw wrote: »

Our best hope would be somebody like Konta, who grew up in Australia and had everything in place to be a top player before moving to England. Now she is their No 1 & best Fed Cup player etc.
We need to get lucky like that with somebody who moves here, otherwise it's very hard to see it happen.

A Mrs. Merton moment there: "So, Johanna Konta: what first attracted you to the multi-millionaire LTA"??

From Wikipedia: She grew up in Australia but when she was 14, she attended the Sanchez Casal academy in Barcelona for 15 months, during which time her parents settled in Eastbourne, East Sussex, England. Konta became a British citizen in May 2012 and concurrently switched her sporting allegiance from Australia to Britain.

I'm not sure we've got the cash to buy a mercenary athlete/sportsperson willing to put on the green jersey!

The Golden Miller · 29-01-2019 2:07am

byronbay2 wrote: »

A Mrs. Merton moment there: "So, Johanna Konta: what first attracted you to the multi-millionaire LTA"??

From Wikipedia: She grew up in Australia but when she was 14, she attended the Sanchez Casal academy in Barcelona for 15 months, during which time her parents settled in Eastbourne, East Sussex, England. Konta became a British citizen in May 2012 and concurrently switched her sporting allegiance from Australia to Britain.

I'm not sure we've got the cash to buy a mercenary athlete/sportsperson willing to put on the green jersey!

And for most of the Irish sporting public, the achievements of a mercenary athlete performing under an Irish banner and being successful, would mean nothing

CosmicFool · 29-01-2019 2:42am

It's basically down to the GAA. It's all about the GAA in Ireland.

Scottish Jodi · 29-01-2019 2:56am

What about Sam Barry or James McGee?

I do however believe that LTA need to start looking into Wales and Ireland for top players because I'm fairly certain that there are decent prospects there.

England have Kyle Edmund, Jack Draper, Jay Clarke that are potential stars of the future. Scotland have Cameron Norrie who is making progress up the rankings.

Kyle is from Jamaica and Cam is from New Zealand so they have changed residency.

I really hope that one day, all of UK is represented by players in the top 50.

shutup · 29-01-2019 7:49am

Scottish Jodi wrote: »

What about Sam Barry or James McGee?

I do however believe that LTA need to start looking into Wales and Ireland for top players because I'm fairly certain that there are decent prospects there.

England have Kyle Edmund, Jack Draper, Jay Clarke that are potential stars of the future. Scotland have Cameron Norrie who is making progress up the rankings.

Kyle is from Jamaica and Cam is from New Zealand so they have changed residency.

I really hope that one day, all of UK is represented by players in the top 50.

You do realise we are not in the UK and the LTA have nothing to do with Tennis on this island?

29-01-2019 11:47am

Remind me wrote: »

The numbers playing at a young age must be tiny if there is no competition amongst kids?

Ireland, presumably faces the same issues as many countries even ones that produce top quality players, that Greek lad in Oz last week, was he shipped off to the states or Spain to one of academies do you know?

The more you look into it the numbers at the top of the sport really are small.

Tsipsitas went off to a tennis academy in France - a bit older than normal but he also was the son of a full-time tennis coach.

The climate aspect is a big one - as others have said there are very few indoor courts in Ireland.

His father is Greek and his mother is Russian. Both of his parents are experienced tennis players, and his mother in particular was a world No. 1 junior who had a career-high professional ranking inside the top 200.[4] His parents had been working as tennis instructors at the Astir Palace resort hotel in Vouliagmeni at the time of his birth.

His father has always served as his primary coach, and he formally studied tennis coaching at the University of Athens to help train his children

29-01-2019 11:53am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe conor niland hails from the wealthy or elitist background that has been referenced in some posts here. I doubt he had a great support network behind him for most of his formative years - outside of his tennis mad family, I mean - but he still made a good fist of breaking the atp top 100 and would have done better but for injury I believe. At one stage I think Murray was the only uk player ranked higher. While hugely difficult for all the reasons outlined above, surely it’s not impossible to conceive of a talent like nilands and to be given a reasonable chance of fulfilling his/ her potential?

all his family were heavily involved in Tennis afaik. I don't know the exact details but his sister was also a player.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Niland

mentions that he went to public school in Somerset for 3 years where fees are £13k a term now - they certainly weren't paupers!

now sure how many families could afford £39k sterling a year for 1 child- on the upper end of things I would hazard a guess

Floppybits · 29-01-2019 12:34pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Meant to ask, do tennis clubs in Ireland still have ludicrous rules that you must wear white when playing?

Some clubs do but getting less and less.

I don't think we can produce a top class player in this country, we can maybe give them the basics but for that person to really become a top class player they would need to move to the US or Spain and dedicate themselves to the sport.

To become a top player you need access to top class facilities, not just court time but other facilities such as gyms and access to top class competition and coaching, to improve and test yourself week in and week out, this is something we don't have. Only ourselves and the UK play on the artificial grass so when you go out on play on real Grass, Clay or Hard court you have no experience of it. I know some clubs are now replacing the artificial Grass courts with artificial clay.

Tennis is seen as a summer sport and not an all year round sport, the only time you see people interested in it is at Wimbledon. It's also a sport you need to give a lot of dedication too and it can be lonely, with football and other sports you can play on the road with other kids, you cant do that with tennis.

3DataModem · 29-01-2019 12:38pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

And for most of the Irish sporting public, the achievements of a mercenary athlete performing under an Irish banner and being successful, would mean nothing

I believe soccer and rugby history has indicated to us that this is not the case.

walshb · 29-01-2019 12:51pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Irish tennis players would need to start juicing big time if they want to compete at any level.

And that would be just to make the top 500......

Johnmb · 29-01-2019 1:02pm

glasso wrote: »

you said that the LTA were as bad as TI tho.

They were, especially with regards to their footprint in Scotland. They focused mainly on England, and while they had a lot more resources than TI there, they were just as wasteful with them. While things have improved since then, they are still major underachievers considering their resources.

byronbay2 · 29-01-2019 1:25pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe conor niland hails from the wealthy or elitist background that has been referenced in some posts here. I doubt he had a great support network behind him for most of his formative years - outside of his tennis mad family, I mean - but he still made a good fist of breaking the atp top 100 and would have done better but for injury I believe. At one stage I think Murray was the only uk player ranked higher. While hugely difficult for all the reasons outlined above, surely it’s not impossible to conceive of a talent like nilands and to be given a reasonable chance of fulfilling his/ her potential?

glasso wrote: »

all his family were heavily involved in Tennis afaik. I don't know the exact details but his sister was also a player.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Niland

mentions that he went to public school in Somerset for 3 years where fees are £13k a term now - they certainly weren't paupers!

now sure how many families could afford £39k sterling a year for 1 child- on the upper end of things I would hazard a guess

Conor's dad, Ray Niland, was a well-known doctor in Limerick. They built a tennis court in the back garden of their home for the children to practice. Tennis was their game and they invested a lot of time and money in getting the best coaching/facilities/equipment for their children. Unfortunately, even with that level of commitment from parents and children, it was still not possible for them to make it from Ireland.

Joe_ Public · 29-01-2019 1:29pm

glasso wrote: »

all his family were heavily involved in Tennis afaik. I don't know the exact details but his sister was also a player.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Niland

mentions that he went to public school in Somerset for 3 years where fees are £13k a term now - they certainly weren't paupers!

now sure how many families could afford £39k sterling a year for 1 child- on the upper end of things I would hazard a guess

Considering he was just a kid basically when he attended uk public school I have a mighty hard time believing they were shelling out 39k A TERM. This was 25-30 years ago I’m guessing. I do know he attended a comprehensive for his secondary schooling in Limerick. Guess they’d spunked all the money away on infant education in england?!

I actually do remember Gina playing around the Munster circuit as a junior where I played some very bad tennis and mostly unsuccessfully chased girls. Her problem was she went out on the circuit basically on her own, traveling the world with no support or friends and back in 80s/90s, that was no easy thing. When conor followed I know they tried to fix this by having someone travel with him as much as possible but, as someone mentioned above, the loneliness of life as a tennis pro is always an issue. There isn’t the social aspect you get with other sports.

As for the socio economic issue, Ray niland was a consultant I believe, quite a successful one, so you could definitely say they are a well off family but not a privileged one. What it came down to was making sacrifices in order to give their siblings the best chance they could. In the lack of a wider support network, they did what they had to do.

Will Ireland ever have a top level player in tennis?

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