"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

20-05-2019 8:12am

A song of ice and fire...

It was always going to end up as a puddle of luke-warm water..

Necro · 20-05-2019 8:16am

ricero wrote: »

A total flop of an ending and final series. I look forward to leggo trying to defend this mess lol

Bit of a ridiculous stance to take tbh. I happen to agree with him on most points that people were just looking to pick holes in the other episodes.

However that being said the finale was a big pile of stupid for a show that had for the most part been very intelligent throughout it's run.

Jon has to give up his sword to visit a prisoner who committed Tyrion, yet is allowed to wander into an unprotected Dany fully armed. Where the hell were her queensguard or are we supposed to believe she's that arrogant?

Greyworm is slitting throats of prisoners in the street yet doesn't bother killing his queen's assassin.

Sam who never left the Night's Watch suddenly being a Lord in Westeros, and then a maester.

Bronn as master of coin that was already spent to pay the Iron Bank/hire the Golden Company.

The unburnable book of the Kingsguard.

The fact that they showed the main characters doing their different things at the end, and didn't include Bran who has essentially been an afterthought the entire show - YET STILL GIVE HIM THE CROWN.

~Rebel~ · 20-05-2019 8:22am

So... the King of the 6 Kingdoms isn’t from any of the 6 Kingdoms, and never set foot (wheel?) in Kings landing until that day.

Why the bejesus would the actual lords of the 6 kingdoms allow that? Especially a chap with all the personality of a spongecake.

Why on earth didn’t the writers try to show Bran as anything other than a freak-show over the past 2 seasons? Wouldn’t trust my goldfish with the guy the way they’ve presented him to us, never mind a realm!

NuMarvel · 20-05-2019 8:27am

Sonics2k wrote: »

One thing I'm going to say, even if it is quite late in the thread.

GRRM decided years ago that Bran would be King. The writers were told who becomes king, but they've gotten to it in a different way, simply because GRRM hasn't fully decided how Bran becomes King.

It seems the way the writers took was "Surprise, it's Bran!".

20-05-2019 8:34am

Well that was dreadful...

Dany has just burned a city to the ground, she must know that a lot of people won’t be happy with her? But she is just left unguarded to be killed?

Unsullied and Dothraki just sort of take off into the sunset...

Everything after Danys death was major cringe.

Bran, who never wanted to rule and and is no longer really alive, wants to be king?

Ok...

ERG89 · 20-05-2019 8:35am

Better finale than I was expecting at this stage although the entire last season was a massive disappointment to me; far more than I was could have envisaged.
I genuinely think the overall outline of the season wasn't something that was insurmountable but the awful writing effected almost every main character & you could tell some actors hearts weren't in it as they knew something was wrong too.

NuMarvel · 20-05-2019 8:38am

~Rebel~ wrote: »

So... the King of the 6 Kingdoms isn’t from any of the 6 Kingdoms, and never set foot (wheel?) in Kings landing until that day.

Why the bejesus would the actual lords of the 6 kingdoms allow that? Especially a chap with all the personality of a spongecake.

Why on earth didn’t the writers try to show Bran as anything other than a freak-show over the past 2 seasons? Wouldn’t trust my goldfish with the guy the way they’ve presented him to us, never mind a realm!

They didn't show him as anything other than that because this was supposed to be a plot twist that we'd never see coming.

Thing is, plot twists only work if they makes sense in retrospect. And that doesn't work with Bran, despite Tyrion's lovely speech. Bran's own response to being offered the crown, "Why do you think I came all this way", undoes a lot of his story up to this point. He suddenly went from someone who had no interest in ruling to a ruler in waiting.

It really feels like the writers got to the last episode and decided to pick a new ruler out of whoever they hadn't killed off up to that point.

Hercule Poirot · 20-05-2019 8:40am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bran, who never wanted to rule and and is no longer really alive, wants to be king?

Ok...

It was the: "Why do you think I traveled this far?" line that got me, you pretentious, creepy fùcker!

CosmicFool · 20-05-2019 8:42am

I just don't know how to feel about it. The writers should be disgusted with themselves. They tried to cram in way too much into this season. I think if it had more episodes it would of came together a lot better. It's so disappointing.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 8:43am

pah wrote: »

. All the unsullied and dothraki cheering for their queen and her conquest/future conquets, few mins later they're walking down the docks and setting sail for a new life????. FML the more I'm typing the madder I'm getting. Need to sleep on this

Give them a break, they all died in episode 3.

ricero · 20-05-2019 8:45am

What was the whole point of Jons true identity as a Targaryen?

First Up · 20-05-2019 8:45am

Only ever been a casual viewer so I'm not immersed in the detail of the storyline or characters.

However from what I've seen of him, the new king has had a pretty easy ride to the throne. Did he ever even speak? All I've seen him do is sit in a chair and roll his eyes every third episode.

I know I must have missed something but what the hell was it?

Ferajacka · 20-05-2019 8:46am

Does the North having its own status and Jon going off into the wild not set this up for another wheel and maybe Jon becomes the new night king in a thousand years.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 8:50am

ricero wrote: »

What was the whole point of Jons true identity as a Targaryen?

To make Dany go crazy. That's it.

---

Ser Vival: My king! They said they want to kill you!
Bran: I'm not really alive. Not any more.
Ser Vival: But your grace, do you not want your enemies to be punished?
Bran: I don't really want anymore.
Ser Vival: There's reports that people are starving in the streets.
Bran: They're going to die. I've seen it.
Ser Vival: The master of coin has disappeared with very large sums of money.
Bran: I could have told you that. If you'd asked.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 8:52am

First Up wrote: »

Only ever been a casual viewer so I'm not immersed in the detail of the storyline or characters.

However from what I've seen of him, the new king has had a pretty easy ride to the throne. Did he ever even speak? All I've seen him do is sit in a chair and roll his eyes every third episode.

I know I must have missed something but what the hell was it?

We have followed his long journey where he became a magic tree God who knows everything that has ever happened, can tell the future, and take over the mind of any animal he chooses.

I am 100% serious.

Vicxas · 20-05-2019 8:54am

The dragon melts the iron throne, really?

Ugh. So happy this is over in some respects

Ferajacka · 20-05-2019 8:58am

Who was the prince we were promised?

First Up · 20-05-2019 9:06am

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote:

We have followed his long journey where he became a magic tree God who knows everything that has ever happened, can tell the future, and take over the mind of any animal he chooses.

Oh fair enough so.

He earned his pay easy though. Just sitting there

Vicxas · 20-05-2019 9:08am

Has anyone made a Humpty Dumpty reference yet?

The White Wolf · 20-05-2019 9:12am

ricero wrote: »

What was the whole point of Jons true identity as a Targaryen?

Feck all. Was actually hilarious how gormless they made Jon in this episode, redecked out in his green boy garb and hairstyle by the end.

Nice though that he's seemingly said **** his punishment and gone beyond the Wall to become King. Not so honourable after all.

Such a poor ending for a character.

20-05-2019 9:12am

Ferajacka wrote: »

Who was the prince we were promised?

You mean that Dornish fella at the Dragon Pit?

He even looked uncannily like Prince Trystane who was murdered to shít by the Sandsnakes.

After showing us some variation in Dornish characteristics with the likes of Oberyn and Areo Hotah, it's typical of the show's later laziness that a Trystane/Doran look-a-like wearing a curtain was what Dorne was reduced to by the finale.

20-05-2019 9:15am

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

It was the: "Why do you think I traveled this far?" line that got me, you pretentious, creepy fùcker!

So Bran really is the tyrant in all of this. He knew everything that was going to happen, ie: Dany murdering most of kings landing, and let them do his dirty work all so he could be king.

rob316 · 20-05-2019 9:19am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Feck all. Was actually hilarious how gormless they made Jon in this episode, redecked out in his green boy garb and hairstyle by the end.

Nice though that he's seemingly said **** his punishment and gone beyond the Wall to become King. Not so honourable after all.

Such a poor ending for a character.

You missed the point, Jon is a stark always has been, the son of the most honourable man westeros has known, Ned Stark.
He betrayed his own blood for doing what he taught was right.
You aren't who you are born into, Tyrion said it.

The White Wolf · 20-05-2019 9:25am

rob316 wrote: »

You missed the point, Jon is a stark always has been, the son of the most honourable man westeros has known, Ned Stark.
He betrayed his own blood for doing what he taught was right.
You aren't who you are born into, Tyrion said it.

But Jon is honourable in his own right, always has been. He betrayed his blood but that doesn't mean he's lost his honour as it's honourable to accept his punishment for his crimes.

Now I might be wrong, but I interpreted that ending as Jon going beyond the wall for good and he has no plans to return to Castle Black. Which is fine as long as we accept it's an out of character decision.

Dickerty · 20-05-2019 9:26am

I'm not feeling the level of hate for the ending. Yes, killing Dani was a bit lazy, but we all knew it had to be done. They couldn't have another power-hungry tyrant on the throne. Bran doesn't care about power or position.
I was reminded of the Gladiator quote when Maximus says he doesn't want to rule, and is told "That is why it must be you!"
So he was probably the right choice to bring a peaceful future forward.
Also right that Sansa separated, as those houses had becoem loyal to her, less likely to revolt - although they did say they would only follow a Stark - so now they have two?
I've been saying for a few weeks that Jon would end up north of the wall, it's the only place he felt at home.
And Arya had to go somewhere, she's not about to settle down. I'd half expect them to do a spin off or her in Valeria, except they don't seem to want to do anything in the current timeline.

Having said all that, no surprise that Dave and Dave directed that episode. Quite the power trip...

20-05-2019 9:31am

I just can't get over how terrible it really was. Not even a reaction to Dany dying. Its just sort of mentioned that she is dead in the next scene.
No outrage from her army? They're happy enough to just let a new king be crowned and sail off? All their work for 8 years just comes undone right at the end.
Nobody has an issue with Bran being king?
Bran, who has no interest in anything, doesn't want anything, can't be king of the north, but suddenly he wants to be King of the 6 kingdoms...

Why was Bran warged for the battle of winterfell?

The knights watch... why does it even exist now? The only thing beyond the wall is the remaining wildlings that they are on good terms with...

In old Game Of Thrones, Arya would have been killed when we least expected it for stealing from the many faced god. In later Game Of Thrones, Arya could creep past every single White Walker undetected and survive Dragon fire.

Nody · 20-05-2019 9:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

The knights watch... why does it even exist now? The only thing beyond the wall is the remaining wildlings that they are on good terms with...

Tyrion stated there that it remained simply to have a place to dump unwanted without having to kill them; basically banishment but close enough they can be killed in case they get to rowdy (how that would work with the North being separate is a whole different matter).

meeeeh · 20-05-2019 9:36am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Now I might be wrong, but I interpreted that ending as Jon going beyond the wall for good and he has no plans to return to Castle Black. Which is fine as long as we accept it's an out of character decision.

I don't think it is. I always thought that was where his hart was. He is rubbish at politics and never wanted to be a leader and for once he is with people who respect him but don't want anyone to lead them. I think he is actually the one who gets a "happy ending".

Bran as a king is a bit whatever. I wouldn't overly care who they stick there. I have more an issue with jobs for the boys for almost any main character who survived. Robert Baratheon had better council than the group that's there now.

Keyzer · 20-05-2019 9:39am

What an absolute bag of dogsh1t.... I'll leave it at that.

rob316 · 20-05-2019 9:43am

The White Wolf wrote: »

But Jon is honourable in his own right, always has been. He betrayed his blood but that doesn't mean he's lost his honour as it's honourable to accept his punishment for his crimes.

Now I might be wrong, but I interpreted that ending as Jon going beyond the wall for good and he has no plans to return to Castle Black. Which is fine as long as we accept it's an out of character decision.

There is point to castle black anymore. Night King is gone, wildlings aren't wildlings anymore. I was annoyed that they sent him there as it seemed pointless but to see him leaving and becoming "mance" was cool and fitted with his character.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:44am

Thought that was fine, good not great. Certainly tidied things up after a fashion and in a logical manner. Predictably perhaps but I guess they had to do something with all the main characters they kept alive! Some good sequences (mostly anything without Dany

) and a fairly low quotient of ropy dialogue. Glad that someone spotted that Grey Worm was turning into Euron Mk II and nipped that in the bud! Was expecting a 5/10 for this but 6.5 in the end.

20-05-2019 9:45am

Well I'm glad it's done. And my excitement for the spin-offs is gone.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:45am

Keyzer wrote: »

What an absolute bag of dogsh1t.... I'll leave it at that.

But at least they put it in the bag!

20-05-2019 9:47am

"You have your needle"

I cried. More opinion to follow after I process the last episode of a series which meant something to me. I started watching it at the beginning of a lot of personal change and the people who were close to me at that time are no longer a part of my life.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I'm glad it's done. And my excitement for the spin-offs is gone.

I doubt you'd be alone in that. Not allowing for enough episodes is where it lost it. That and the lack of fresh writers in the pot.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:49am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Feck all. Was actually hilarious how gormless they made Jon in this episode, redecked out in his green boy garb and hairstyle by the end.

Nice though that he's seemingly said **** his punishment and gone beyond the Wall to become King. Not so honourable after all.

Such a poor ending for a character.

Ultimately he was a poor character. Far too much overactive conscience and conflict and not enough decision making in anything.

Necro · 20-05-2019 9:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I'm glad it's done. And my excitement for the spin-offs is gone.

You say that now but wait till the trailers hit

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

I just can't get over how terrible it really was. Not even a reaction to Dany dying. Its just sort of mentioned that she is dead in the next scene.
No outrage from her army? They're happy enough to just let a new king be crowned and sail off? All their work for 8 years just comes undone right at the end.
Nobody has an issue with Bran being king?
Bran, who has no interest in anything, doesn't want anything, can't be king of the north, but suddenly he wants to be King of the 6 kingdoms...

This is the trouble with the rushed ending, there was no time for a reaction to Dany, not that one was merited IMO. They were cleaning house and once they'd done the mad queen with her she was toast. What followed made sense and Bran was the one option people were least likely to squabble over.

Mitch Connor · 20-05-2019 9:56am

ricero wrote: »

What was the whole point of Jons true identity as a Targaryen?

To make Bran King.

Tyerion: "I know you don't want it..."
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So, Bran wanted to be King, and put himself in position to be king.

Part of that was telling John he was a Targaryen to drive a wedge between him and Dany with this being the outcome he knew would come about. He knew John would tell people, he knew how Dany would react to that news and how other would. He played them all.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 9:58am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

To make Bran King.

Tyerion: "I know you don't want it..."
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So, Bran wanted to be King, and put himself in position to be king.

Part of that was telling John he was a Targaryen to drive a wedge between him and Dany with this being the outcome he knew would come about. He knew John would tell people, he knew how Dany would react to that news and how other would. He played them all.

Once you've seen the massive flaws of season 7&8 you just shrug your shoulders at how it finished.

KikiLaRue · 20-05-2019 10:00am

I'm fine with a lot of it.

I read a review that said Jon and Dany's arc would have been much better if we felt like we loved her the same way we felt his love for Ygritte, but like most of the plot, that was too rushed to really buy into it. If S7 and S8 had been 10 episodes each, the plot itself was fine. With just 13 episodes, there was too much to do in too little time.

It does feel like everyone is where they are meant to be at the end - Jon gone North of the Wall, Sansa ruling Winterfell, Tyrion back in King's Landing, Arya off exploring and the Unsullied sailing away. The moment Dany burnt down a surrendering city we knew Jon would have to kill her.

The only surprise is Bran on the throne, I'm not sure about that but the rest makes sense to me.

20-05-2019 10:00am

I’ve been enjoying season 8 a lot but I feel empty after that.

Just so many unanswered questions. I would have loved to have seen everyone’s reaction to hearing Jon had stabbed Dani

The_Honeybadger · 20-05-2019 10:04am

That was the ending that was expected really. Dany was dead the minute she set fire to KL it was only a matter of who the assassin was going to be and who would replace her. I would have liked to have seen Jon’s arrest. I’m not sure what ending would have fitted better but it was just a bit ‘meh’.

I see on Twitter that following on from starbuckgate they have picked out a water bottle on screen in the scene where they picked Bran as the new leader. Lol

This series was a let down for me, lots of the same complaints that others have. Rushed plot trying to squeeze two seasons of material in to six episodes, weak writing and dialogue, inconsistencies and I suppose the overall departure production wise from earlier seasons where it was the best show on tv by a country mile. What a pity.

Exclamation Marc · 20-05-2019 10:06am

The White Wolf wrote: »

Feck all. Was actually hilarious how gormless they made Jon in this episode, redecked out in his green boy garb and hairstyle by the end.

Nice though that he's seemingly said **** his punishment and gone beyond the Wall to become King. Not so honourable after all.

Such a poor ending for a character.

Patently not true that it meant feck all. The point of his reveal as a Targaryen was that he was a threat to Dany which was something else that motivated and threatened her.

Anyway, I had to say I was mostly satisfied with the finale given where we were pre-finale.

I have issues with some of the direction and decisions of characters (mainly Dany) this season in general but as a finale given where it all sat with with 75 minutes to go I did generally enjoy it and was happy with it and how it landed. I think it's fair to say that it was never going to please everyone.

I do (like most people) think that it needed just one more episode of content somewhere in the middle of this season.

One thing that irked me was the meta reference to a song of ice and fire. Way too on the nose.

Little things like the greenery North of the wall, Drogons carrying of Dany, Briennes writing of Jamie's story, Ghosts reuniting were all nice small touches.

End of an era

Will miss this show for all its highs and lows.

Sonics2k · 20-05-2019 10:07am

Dany was never going to be Queen. We knew this. Her bloodlust has grown, and Tyrion gives the measure of her. She's always been told she does the right thing, she truly believes what she does is right. Even when she slaughters thousands of innocent people, she believes this was right.

Jon was never going to be King. The only way he could take the title would be if he kills Dany. Jon though, much like Ned, is a painfully honest man. I don't doubt for a moment that he confessed to killing her. Jon also does not want to be King. He didn't even want to be King in the North.

Sansa was never an option. All she wants is for the North to be it's own Kingdom.

Gendry was a possible option, at least he's the son of a previous King.

I'm not saying I like Bran Stark as King, but of the remaining people he's one of the only choices for a "happy ending".

End of season thoughts. Honestly, I really, really wish they'd gone with 10 episodes and dedicated some time to Bran outside of his nonsensical vague one-liners.

Peter Dinklage massively carried the last few seasons. Him finding Cersei and Jaime got me right in the feels.

20-05-2019 10:12am

Just saw on Reddit that probably the biggest plot hole was any of the kingdoms even caring about the powerless throne in a ruined city.

The Targaryens created the throne that rules the seven kingdoms. It makes absolutely no sense that each wouldn't just declare independence and ask Bran what he was gonna do about it. It's even worse that they were all chill with the North getting independence, and are now going to ruled by someone not from the six kingdoms; They're going to be ruled by the true heir of the kingdom that just became independent.

Tippex · 20-05-2019 10:18am

So I read an article that basically said that HBO wanted more episodes and to run for more seasons (rr martin too) but D&D were insistent on doing it “their” way and the fact they are contracted for the next star wars (disney hurry up and tear up that contract before they **** that up too) was the whole reason it ended like this allegedly they wanted to move on after being tied to the show for 12 years and benioff apparently said he would be drunk and away from the internet for the finale (he knew the **** show that he had created with that) as I said earlier hbo and d&d have jointly ****ed this up.

Vicxas · 20-05-2019 10:19am

I wouldn't mind a West Wing style of sequel to it. Enjoyed the banter between Bronn and the rest of the new council.

In saying that this season reminded me of the last season of Dexter where you could tell the showrunners just wanted it to be over.

dark crystal · 20-05-2019 10:21am

I must have been one of the few people who really enjoyed this last season from start to (almost) finish.

I can't forgive them that ending, though.

****ing Brandon Stark as King of the six kingdoms? Whaaaaat?? He's done nothing to deserve that. Nothing. Going from no interest in power of any kind to stating that he travelled "all this way" to become King!? Wtf

Aegon Targeryan is then banished to the Night's Watch just like he was as a bastard. Saves the world a few times, but sure, banishment is good enough for him while his useless cousin gets to rule the world he saved.

That's the end to Jon's story after everything? Really?? It's ****ed me right off :mad:

valoren · 20-05-2019 10:21am

J. Marston wrote: »

This has probably put me off ever doing a rewatch of the whole thing.

And for anyone who hasn't seen the show they'll now be less likely to invest time in watching 72 episodes given the lukewarm reaction to the final two seasons.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

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