The Middle Distance Thread

BeepBeep67 · 10-01-2014 5:43pm

ecoli wrote: »

Any chance of the lend of your I phone to take a picture ?

Never touched one of those <shudder>

pconn062 · 10-01-2014 5:50pm

So, I'm relatively new to all this and am trying to put together a rough schedule for the year. I'm also going to be getting some coaching but would like a rough structure for myself. How would this look for an runner looking to focus on the outdoor season (mainly June/July), who is not looking to focus on indoors.

December/January: Base building, just mileage with tempo work and strides and hills for turnover work.

February/March: Keeping the mileage relatively similar but introducing some interval work/vo2 max work. So reps at 3/5k pace, maybe 5x1k, 6x800m, 12x400m. Also including occasional speed workouts such as 150m build ups.

April/May: A slight drop in mileage and start including some race pace stuff. So specific sessions at race pace, maybe some early races at above and below distance. For me that would be 800m and 3000m races, with 1500m being the main event. Also some sharpening sessions towards the end of May.

June/July: Racing season, probably racing most weeks with a light session thrown in.

I know that is all very vague but does it sound roughly correct? I will also do some shorter road races (5 mile max) up until April or so. I find that my body breaks down if I do two hard sessions a week on the track so I'm thinking of limiting to one session a week and maybe doing the turnover work on grass.

ecoli · 10-01-2014 6:11pm

pconn062 wrote: »

So, I'm relatively new to all this and am trying to put together a rough schedule for the year. I'm also going to be getting some coaching but would like a rough structure for myself. How would this look for an runner looking to focus on the outdoor season (mainly June/July), who is not looking to focus on indoors.

December/January: Base building, just mileage with tempo work and strides and hills for turnover work.

February/March: Keeping the mileage relatively similar but introducing some interval work/vo2 max work. So reps at 3/5k pace, maybe 5x1k, 6x800m, 12x400m. Also including occasional speed workouts such as 150m build ups.

April/May: A slight drop in mileage and start including some race pace stuff. So specific sessions at race pace, maybe some early races at above and below distance. For me that would be 800m and 3000m races, with 1500m being the main event. Also some sharpening sessions towards the end of May.

June/July: Racing season, probably racing most weeks with a light session thrown in.

I know that is all very vague but does it sound roughly correct? I will also do some shorter road races (5 mile max) up until April or so. I find that my body breaks down if I do two hard sessions a week on the track so I'm thinking of limiting to one session a week and maybe doing the turnover work on grass.

Generally looks alright to me. Few points

- Tempo's shouldn't be ignored and personally speaking I would keep these in some shape or format right through to April (doesn't have to be every week). 1500m is predominantly aerobic event so we don't want this being eroded early season
- Turnover work doesn't have to be classified as a session, A couple of 200s @ 1500m race pace after an easy run is fine early season just make sure that the recoveries are generous to the point where the body is not being taxed.

I know plenty who have success with this basic template

Early season - 3 sessions a week - short hills, long reps (800-1 mile), tempo
Pre Comp - 3 sessions - Short reps, Long reps, Tempo

As you have said 3 sessions a week can be taxing but there is no reason why you can't run two week cycles -

Week 1 - Turnover session, Long Reps
Week 2 - Short Hills, Tempo

And repeat for 4 cycles which would give you a decent base doing in Feb/Mar then moving to April/May to more Vo2 Max stuff and then get into race specific come June and into full race season after that.

Remember it is a long season and stretches into August with the Gradeds so you don't wanna overcook it too soon. The race specific sessions are icing on the cake designed to get your body used to running at race pace but they require the engine to be allowed to do so and as such I think you would be better off not coming into the start of May in peak fitness just because the race calendar kicks off then. It normally takes a couple of races before we are capable of running at are optimum so as such we want to go into the first few races slightly undercooked so that we are fresh enough later in the season when it counts for running the times we should be.

Stazza · 10-01-2014 10:21pm

pconn062 wrote: »

So, I'm relatively new to all this and am trying to put together a rough schedule for the year. I'm also going to be getting some coaching but would like a rough structure for myself. How would this look for an runner looking to focus on the outdoor season (mainly June/July), who is not looking to focus on indoors.

December/January: Base building, just mileage with tempo work and strides and hills for turnover work.

February/March: Keeping the mileage relatively similar but introducing some interval work/vo2 max work. So reps at 3/5k pace, maybe 5x1k, 6x800m, 12x400m. Also including occasional speed workouts such as 150m build ups.

April/May: A slight drop in mileage and start including some race pace stuff. So specific sessions at race pace, maybe some early races at above and below distance. For me that would be 800m and 3000m races, with 1500m being the main event. Also some sharpening sessions towards the end of May.

June/July: Racing season, probably racing most weeks with a light session thrown in.

I know that is all very vague but does it sound roughly correct? I will also do some shorter road races (5 mile max) up until April or so. I find that my body breaks down if I do two hard sessions a week on the track so I'm thinking of limiting to one session a week and maybe doing the turnover work on grass.

When I was out on my run tonight, I was thinking that it would be a good idea to post our plans and let others make suggestions. Good on ya for posting your plan. Great ideas from ecoli.

ecoli · 12-01-2014 4:34pm

Thought this might be of interest to some. It came from Letsrun, normally would dismiss these as just speculation however I have alot of what is here has come up in some shape or form in interviews from Salazar over the last 2-3 years and the 600 breakdown session was again brought up today in an interview ( http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=news&news_id=201809 ) so I suspect the post has a few elements of truth to it, irregardless not a bad post regarding training

Because I believe in sharing information for the benefit of other coaches, here is my synopsis of the Salazar group from speaking with Alberto, several in his camp, and personal observations.

Two week cycles. Here is a general outline for the majority of the year. (more specific in the final 6-7 weeks)
1 short speed session per week year round. In the fall this can be hills and 200's. The key is progression. If Galen wants to run 12x200 in 25.5 in August, he starts in late March/April (double periodization) with 200's in 29. Always a 200j between. The short speed day obviously gets tailored to the specific needs of the athlete as races approach (can be 400's or a mix of short intervals)

2. 1 longer workout per week. This can be long intervals (ex: 6x1600 w/400j or 8x1200 w/400j) or a 6-8 mile tempo run. Again the key is progression. Moving from say 4:30-25 for mile repeats down to 4:11-4:13 for Galen. The intervals are faster than 10k race pace, but longer recoveries than most other "elite" runners training. Just an interesting side note.

3. One medium interval workout ever yother week. Most of the time is 600's or 800's or 600m breakdowns (600,400,300,200). 3 or 4 sets of the breakdowns, or 8x800.

4. Long run once per week. One week is a slower long run and one week is a harder long run. The hard long run for Mo and Galen would be anywhere from 5:00 to 5:30 depending upon the time of year. Normally 17-20 miles.

The last 6-7 weeks before your key race is the hardest training cycle. Notice very little to no racing for Salazar's athletes in this time period.

Normal easy runs are around 5:40-45 for Mo and Galen.

In a two week cycle: 5 workouts and two long runs.
Surprisingly simple, it's the consistency, progression and confidence that sets these runners apart (and natural talent!)

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4728972&page=0

Stazza · 12-01-2014 4:59pm

ecoli wrote: »

Thought this might be of interest to some. It came from Letsrun, normally would dismiss these as just speculation however I have alot of what is here has come up in some shape or form in interviews from Salazar over the last 2-3 years and the 600 breakdown session was again brought up today in an interview ( http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=news&news_id=201809 ) so I suspect the post has a few elements of truth to it, irregardless not a bad post regarding training

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4728972&page=0

Great stuff ecoli. If you promise not to tell anybody I'll show you a real Al Sal session - with pics! Gotta promise not to tell...

ecoli · 12-01-2014 5:01pm

Stazza wrote: »

Great stuff ecoli. If you promise not to tell anybody I'll show you a real Al Sal session - with pics! Gotta promise not to tell...

I'll see your session and raise you a video from Font Romeu

Stazza · 12-01-2014 5:13pm

ecoli wrote: »

I'll see your session and raise you a video from Font Romeu

That's old news:P I'm not sure if you could cope with what I've got - you might have to go incognito:D

Stazza · 12-01-2014 5:36pm

Ok - here's a cheeky little Al Sal session with a nice pic.

Stazza · 12-01-2014 5:37pm

Stazza wrote: »

Ok - here's a cheeky little Al Sal session with a nice pic.

Oops! I try again later.

Sorted! Link's working now.

ecoli · 12-01-2014 6:10pm

Stazza wrote: »

Oops! I try again later.

Sorted! Link's working now.

Fair is fair

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/249744-Workout-Wednesday-Season-7/video/684853-American-Record-could-go-down-by-this-guy-Galen-Rupp

Huayra · 12-01-2014 8:41pm

Good initiative setting up the thread pconn. Time is going so fast, the track season will hit us in no time. Never thought I'd be doing this myself as I'd say I am mostly slow twitch. If you want to improve your long distances though, the optimal way to do it is to make those paces feel easy by running shorter and faster.

ecoli · 12-01-2014 8:48pm

Huayra wrote: »

Good initiative setting up the thread pconn. Time is going so fast, the track season will hit us in no time. Never thought I'd be doing this myself as I'd say I am mostly slow twitch. If you want to improve your long distances though, the optimal way to do it is to make those paces feel easy by running shorter and faster.

Unfortunately this is a mindset that alot of people have but remember 1500m up is predominantly aerobic so there is no reason a "slow twitch fibre" runner still can't do particularly well (not saying your gonna win All Ireland Ireland but there are very few who are)

Running track races is a completely different experience but one which is really enjoyable and the training is great for creating better running efficiency and is certainly something I would advocate everyone to atleast try.

Sure look at Krusty Clown or myself who are by definition a slow twitch runnesr, he was running 400m and me 800m during last summer

Huayra · 13-01-2014 11:25am

I'll give it my best. I intend to give the track races a shot every summer from now on. At least I will be doing the training with people who have a good track record

(pun intended), and plenty of experience. My form and economy could be improved over longer distances by running many track races.
I think people are intimidated by the explosive bursts of speed. Most runners enjoy the relaxed, and comparatively slow pace of the long races. To be honest that's exactly what my mindset was when I decided to go straight into the marathon.
Am going to be focusing on 8s/15s/mile this summer. Will probably try a couple of 3000m too. I am getting excited. No idea what kind of times I am capable of so that is a mystery I will eventually come to realise.

Timmaay · 13-01-2014 12:08pm

Huayra wrote: »

Am going to be focusing on 8s/15s/mile this summer. Will probably try a couple of 3000m too. I am getting excited. No idea what kind of times I am capable of so that is a mystery I will eventually come to realise.

I think I've figured out who you are :P, but good to hear your interested in the middle distance, feel free to jump into our sessions on the Greystones track if they fit around your training, I can pm ya the details of them. Just dont get quicker than me and take my spot on the slicualann national league team :P

Huayra · 13-01-2014 12:29pm

Cheers Timmaay. Guess I can't troll the boards anymore now that you've realised who I am. Hope the training is going well and your recovered since last time I saw you

. Btw just to confirm, I'm Huayra

pconn062 · 14-01-2014 11:28pm

Might be interesting for people to post up what sessions they've done or what sessions they have planned for the week, and what purpose the session has. I know people might not want to give too much away but you might give the rest of us some ideas!

dna_leri · 15-01-2014 12:34am

Today: 2x600m at 800m pace +5-10%
Even with 15 min recovery, the 2nd one is tough.
Weights session after - nothing heavy.
Last speed endurance session before target 800m race on 25th.

Thursdays plan is:
10x200m at race pace off 90s
Then winding down next week with probably another 200 session and 100m bends at race pace.

Race pace training is key for me these weeks.

YFlyer · 21-01-2014 4:18pm

On the letsrun sub 1:50 800m thread Anthony Colotti mentioned the following.

TRAINING FOR ANAEROBIC POWER (is your ability in running faster possible distances from 300m to 600m, depending on your event). You must run at max intensity, this is a training but also a test, and the competition is a training too. Your goal are to become able to produce more lactate (for example, if you run 300m in 38.0 with 12mmol, the most important limiting factor is that youe engine doesn't have POWER enough. So you must become able to produce 15mmol, and when you are able, you can run in 36.5). If you are a sprinter, 300m is the longer distance that you can use for this goal. If you are a distance runner, 500-600m are better.

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719&page=5#ixzz2r2vQqwTU

He mentions about increasing blood lactate levels to get more Power.

My questions is how can you increase your blood lactate levels to 15mmol or so?

ecoli · 21-01-2014 4:34pm

YFlyer wrote: »

On the letsrun sub 1:50 800m thread Anthony Colotti mentioned the following.

TRAINING FOR ANAEROBIC POWER (is your ability in running faster possible distances from 300m to 600m, depending on your event). You must run at max intensity, this is a training but also a test, and the competition is a training too. Your goal are to become able to produce more lactate (for example, if you run 300m in 38.0 with 12mmol, the most important limiting factor is that youe engine doesn't have POWER enough. So you must become able to produce 15mmol, and when you are able, you can run in 36.5). If you are a sprinter, 300m is the longer distance that you can use for this goal. If you are a distance runner, 500-600m are better.

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719&page=5#ixzz2r2vQqwTU

He mentions about increasing blood lactate levels to get more Power.

My questions is how can you increase your blood lactate levels to 15mmol or so?

I think he mentions it there with regards 500-600m reps of high intensity with long recoveries. Admittedly this is one aspect of training physiology I have not looked at in a long while (and not in as much depth as I would have liked) but to the best of my knowlege this would be along the lines of 3x600m @ 800m pace off very long recoveries. I know 400m runners would have similar whereby they are running 300m off long recoveries (when I say long I am talking the best part of 10 min in between).

This however require a few complementary aspects of training
- Lactic tolerance (Your bodies ability to become as efficient as possible at the height of lactic accumulation i.e minimal fading in the final 1/4 of an 800m)
- The raw speed to be able to generate enough speed to allow your energy pathways to require that much anaerobic output.

YFlyer · 21-01-2014 5:38pm

Thanks ecoli

Those repeats be fairly demanding and only done a few times in a season.

dna_leri · 22-01-2014 10:46am

There is more from Renato Canova in this thread:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=458338&page=1

I must go back and read it all again to try and absorb some more of the details.
One thing I did lift from it last year was the 600m sessions, based on this:
1) 6 x 600m (rec. 4 min) @85-8%
2) (about 10 days later) 5 x 600 (rec. 5 min)@88-90%
3) (about 10 days later) 4 x 600 (rec. 6 min) @92-95%
4) (about 10 days later) 3 x 600 (rec. 8 min) @96-98%
The next workout (before OG) will be 2 x 600 (rec. 10 min) @100%
Note: not a target range, actually a progression within the session !

I did not follow the above rigidly but I have attempted these 3 times in the 18 months, probably with diminishing success. The first time was Nov-Jan13, after which I ran my indoor 2:02

Timmaay · 22-01-2014 3:12pm

Following the flu over most of christmas, and a chest infection for the last 10days my indoor season looks as if it will be wroteoff before I begin. Annoying but thats life!

dna_leri · 24-01-2014 12:13pm

Masters Indoors for me on Saturday, 800m.
Good number of entries for Junior and U23s on Sunday.
Entry lists for both days on AI website.

Anyone else running in Athlone this weekend?

oldrunner · 24-01-2014 12:42pm

I'm entered (o50 800). Lost critical weeks speed work and not confident. I normally double with 1500 but just one event this year. Getting towards the end of the age group and it really does get harder each year.

pconn062 · 24-01-2014 3:46pm

Good luck to you both lads. Doing the Leinster indoors on the 9th, will be my first time running in Athlone so really looking forward to it!

YFlyer · 24-01-2014 5:06pm

I'm racing the over 40s 800m.

ecoli · 25-01-2014 11:22am

Best of luck to all the lads running.

Always interested to see what peoples sessions look like when it comes to a big race week like this? How do people balance keeping the legs fresh while staying in touch with race pace?

Timmaay · 25-01-2014 11:24am

ecoli wrote: »

Best of luck to all the lads running.

Always interested to see what peoples sessions look like when it comes to a big race week like this? How do people balance keeping the legs fresh while staying in touch with race pace?

Can't beat 200s for that.

dna_leri · 25-01-2014 3:06pm

Beaten in sprint finish in average time. Did not have the kick today. Reflections on my log later

oldrunner · 27-01-2014 9:14am

Managed to win- 4th indoors in a row. combined the o45s and o50s in one race. It's always annoying to have to do this - completely changes the race pattern and you don't get to win by crossing the line first.

Letyourselfgo · 27-01-2014 11:35pm

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

Chivito550 · 27-01-2014 11:40pm

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

Can't advise on any specific plans but from watching the 800m runners at my club you need to build up to 3 sessions a week, with core/gym and longer runs the other days. A mixture of over distance and under distance session on the track. Some days the coach has them doing 1k reps, other days 300s and 200s. 800m is a quick event so you need to train to be fast. That would be my opinion anyway.

ecoli · 28-01-2014 12:28am

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

I think if you are going to do a 30/35 mpw style training you are probably best off concentrating on 5k training for now to build up your aerobic base before you go into specific training as 35 mpw is not a huge amount to work with and as such your overall intensity on a daily basis will have to be pretty high to get the best bang for your buck without overcooking it and frying yourself before you get into proper race fitness. I think dna eluded to this in his review of indoors and the importance of endurance going into race specific work so my advice would be as follows

1) Next few months build strength and aerobic power this means Tempo's and CV reps (600s-1200s I think probably be the most suitable). Off such low mileage I would try to use longer aerobic threshold tempos (at around MP) as a replacement for the traditional long run (5-7 miles), Supplement this with steady longs runs (8-10 miles). It is not uncommon for 800m runners to do these longer style workouts, Joe Vigil (if you can get his book definitely worth a read) has used these to great effect with some of his runners and if you look at Brenda Martinez over the last 18 months it is not uncommon to see 10 mile tempo's pop up in here winter training

2) Turnover is something which takes practice. You should be doing something atleast once a week to work on turnover. During your endurance work these can be as simple as a lactic strides (after run or 6-8* 80-100m). These should not be hard and the recoveries in between should be sufficient that these do not become a session

3) Ancillary work is crucial - off such low mileage you will need to be making up the effort elsewhere and this is where the ancillary work comes in - weights and low intensity plyometrics should become a part of your overall weekly routine. Introduce these slowly to allow your body to adapt but stressing the CNS will be of huge value when it comes to speed development sessions in the season and also form

4) Keep your runs short but steady - off that low mileage I would say you would get a better bang for your buck running short doubles rather than longer singles. Running 2*4 milers at a steady pace (just slower than MP) will yield better aerobic returns for a low mileage 800m runner than one slower 8 mile run. The shorter runs means that your body should recover that bit better while being able to achieve high intensity but this element of training is one that will come into play more as you get closer to your season.

Once you get into your season you should aim to have one race pace session every week with a supplementary session (Over distance/ Under distance on alternating weeks). Turnover work can be counted as a third session of the week but again aim to try and keep these alactic.

Timmaay · 28-01-2014 11:49am

Many people end up doing the opposite ha? Tried to run 800 off a very limited aerobic base? Obviously far from ideal but there comes times when you aren't fit, have a possible 800 coming up in say 2/3weeks, do ya just wing it, doing your few 800pace sessions and give it a shot on the day ha? Ok yes, that is me right at the minute ha, might jump into the Leinster indoor 800 on the 9th! Or should I forget about it ha?

ecoli · 28-01-2014 3:17pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Many people end up doing the opposite ha? Tried to run 800 off a very limited aerobic base? Obviously far from ideal but there comes times when you aren't fit, have a possible 800 coming up in say 2/3weeks, do ya just wing it, doing your few 800pace sessions and give it a shot on the day ha? Ok yes, that is me right at the minute ha, might jump into the Leinster indoor 800 on the 9th! Or should I forget about it ha?

Your what I would call the exception that proves the rule. I can't remember the last time you came into a season off a decent base for one reason or another all way through college but managed to race yourself into shape. Normally common sense would suggest you should forget it but knowing your history I would say go for it

dna_leri · 28-01-2014 3:30pm

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

What ecoli said.
But keep your recovery runs sloooow.
Hard days hard, easy days easy.
I'll try to give more input later if I can think.
Brain is fried with man flu this week.

dna_leri · 28-01-2014 5:37pm

Letyourselfgo

First a disclaimer, I am not a coach so anything I say is only based on what real coaches have said or written but mostly by an experiment of 1 - me. Most of this is based on my first season of 800's

Before you start, I recommend to set your target, ideally a time and a date e.g. 2:20 by mid-August (at one of the Dublin Graded Meets). From a low base, you will only get to peak for a very short time so you need to pick that carefully.

Plan an 8 week competition/sharpening phase in the lead up to that. Pick some other target races for this time, including a 400 & a 1500/mile. Five races would be ideal but you may have to adjust if you find they are taking too much out of you. Also remember just that because the season starts in May does not mean you have to. During this time your key session should be at race pace, including 400, 800 & 1500 paces.

For the next say 12-16 weeks, I think you are right to focus on 5K training, aim to get a PB - set a target time and date. Key session at 5K pace, long run up to 10 miles.

After that, plan a transition phase which is getting your body ready for the competition phase. This is the time to do hill work and strength training. Start that 600m progression I mentioned back on post #73. First time out I did a Kosmin test at the start and end to see the improvement and give an idea of paces. (see http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1997spring.pdf)

Timmaay · 28-01-2014 11:52pm

ecoli wrote: »

Your what I would call the exception that proves the rule. I can't remember the last time you came into a season off a decent base for one reason or another all way through college but managed to race yourself into shape. Normally common sense would suggest you should forget it but knowing your history I would say go for it

Ok lets do it :P! Tonight was the 1st time back training in 2/3wks, had a chest infection and could hardly breath, not to mind run! Anyways the lads happen to be doing an 800 session anyways, so suited perfect. The session was 3 sets of 300m,200m with 1min rest between the 3 and 2, and 5mins between sets, with the 300 at 800m pace, and 200s abit quicker. My splits were 45,28, 45,28, 46,29, the last set was hard work, and I could definitely feel the lack of fitness from 1/2 way on in each rep.

I was certainly happy with the times, I've obviously managed to hang onto some bit of fitness from before, and my dayjob is fairly active and would help with my fitness, so I'm certainly not starting from scratch, but I really really am lacking any sort of consistent base of miles from the last few months.

The aim tomorrow is to get out for an easy jog, one of the lads is doing 50mins, I'll run with him as long as I can, but I know thats well outside my range for now. Session again on Friday then!

Letyourselfgo · 30-01-2014 9:55am

With regards to strength training, how often and when is the best day to do it, same day as a session?

bagsy · 30-01-2014 1:00pm

HI all, great thread

I was just wondering how important others feel it is determining you r exact VO2 and LT via bloods for training purposes?

Any info would be great....

Cheers

ecoli · 30-01-2014 2:01pm

bagsy wrote: »

HI all, great thread

I was just wondering how important others feel it is determining you r exact VO2 and LT via bloods for training purposes?

Any info would be great....

Cheers

These tests can be a great tool if used correctly I have seen many coaches use them successfully with athletes of a wide variety of ability from Olympians to novice runners.

A word of caution though a singular test will not suffice to get proper benefit from and these tests must be performed between 4 and 5 times a year in order to amend training levels and monitor progress.

They are a handy tool but not essential for improvement (at any level)

ecoli · 30-01-2014 2:09pm

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

With regards to strength training, how often and when is the best day to do it, same day as a session?

Normally I stick to twice a week.

Regarding best days to do it I generally avoid the day before a session if possible (though get away with it to an extent at the moment as my sessions are of a more slow twitch fibre variety being in marathon training)
You also need to look to the dynamics of both the session and the strength training you are doing.

Speed development sessions and explosive resistance exercised (squats, cleans, deadlifts, lunges) are all aimed at developing fast twitch fibres. In order to gain these benefits reps should be low, weight high and you should be fresh going into the sessions.

If you are doing a more general strengthening resistance workout I would say aim to keep this on the day of a session to stick with the hard days hard ethos and allow yourself sufficient recovery in the days after. Again avoid speed development days but aim to do on session of +800m pace, with these style of strength workouts it is not uncommon to have these straight after your track work

Letyourselfgo · 30-01-2014 2:33pm

@ecoli
Thanks for that, just after the 200s the other night I just started thinking was it a good idea to have done the strength training earlier that day, was I getting the best out of the 200s.

Like this idea and it makes sense

ecoli wrote: »

If you are doing a more general strengthening resistance workout I would say aim to keep this on the day of a session to stick with the hard days hard ethos and allow yourself sufficient recovery in the days after. Again avoid speed development days but aim to do on session of +800m pace, with these style of strength workouts it is not uncommon to have these straight after your track work

RuinedEye · 04-02-2014 9:39am

Great thread! I am relatively new to MD as I am coming from the longer stuff 3000-10000m. I am currently nearing the end of phase 2 training which involves 50% areobic-50% anaerobic and I am feeling that I am getting quicker.

I am planning on hitting the track in the summer, would like to do both 800 and 1500, can anyone offer any advice on recovery after one for the other and which training should I be doing for both? I wont be doing both if the are very close in the schedule of events or if there are a few heats in one but I want to get set up to be able to do them if the chance arises. Thanks

Timmaay · 04-02-2014 11:07am

RuinedEye wrote: »

Great thread! I am relatively new to MD as I am coming from the longer stuff 3000-10000m. I am currently nearing the end of phase 2 training which involves 50% areobic-50% anaerobic and I am feeling that I am getting quicker.

I am planning on hitting the track in the summer, would like to do both 800 and 1500, can anyone offer any advice on recovery after one for the other and which training should I be doing for both? I wont be doing both if the are very close in the schedule of events or if there are a few heats in one but I want to get set up to be able to do them if the chance arises. Thanks

I've done both in the same meet before, you can get away with a 15, then an 8 say 3/4hrs later, but I fine it almost impossible to do anything following a 800.

RuinedEye · 06-02-2014 9:43am

I will keep that in mind, I may just concentrate on the 1500m.

Does anyone feel like their distance running suffers from concentrating on a shorter race? As I have seen some 1500m runners do very well in 5k-10k races including XC.

ecoli · 07-02-2014 6:11pm

While not strictly a training question always good to get peoples opinions on the qualities of a good middle distance runner?

(please don't just say speed (or if you have to try and elaborate a little bit on it)

)

Timmaay · 09-02-2014 9:40pm

ecoli wrote: »

Your what I would call the exception that proves the rule. I can't remember the last time you came into a season off a decent base for one reason or another all way through college but managed to race yourself into shape. Normally common sense would suggest you should forget it but knowing your history I would say go for it

2.05, left wayyy too much on the track however! I suppose the 1st 800 race of the season I was always going to be abit rusty, but the lack of sessions left me with no edge at at, and I really wasn't prepared for the mental toughness from 400-600m. Still can't complain too much about the time (esp as it was a 60sec 1st 400), I know what to do now, and it was great being back racing on the track, with all the nerves/adrenaline etc ha! And it was also my very 1st indoor race, veey deception how short the track is, its lap after lap, the race flies by!

pconn062 · 10-02-2014 12:27am

Timmaay wrote: »

2.05, left wayyy too much on the track however! I suppose the 1st 800 race of the season I was always going to be abit rusty, but the lack of sessions left me with no edge at at, and I really wasn't prepared for the mental toughness from 400-600m. Still can't complain too much about the time (esp as it was a 60sec 1st 400), I know what to do now, and it was great being back racing on the track, with all the nerves/adrenaline etc ha! And it was also my very 1st indoor race, veey deception how short the track is, its lap after lap, the race flies by!

Think I caught your race today, nicely done and a good way to kick off the season!

The Middle Distance Thread

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