Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Nijmegen · 17-05-2019 9:31am

joeysoap wrote: »

I was talking to a friend who works for AL. I was just asking her how they are going manage the guaranteed overhead locker space for AerSpace customers. She said they weren’t informed yet but it might be ‘tricky’.

Also she didn’t know who would get priority in the case of overbooking the AerSpace customers or the overbooked passengers.

Might never happen of course.

Thing is AerSpace is a pretty well understood concept as Eurobusiness. Slap a sticker on the overhead bins in use (or a movable little sign with an adhesive on the back if you're constantly adjusting the amount of aerspace on the plane) that says "For AerSpace passengers only"

Locker10a · 17-05-2019 10:23am

Nijmegen wrote: »

Thing is AerSpace is a pretty well understood concept as Eurobusiness. Slap a sticker on the overhead bins in use (or a movable little sign with an adhesive on the back if you're constantly adjusting the amount of aerspace on the plane) that says "For AerSpace passengers only"

LOL if you think that will deter passengers you’ve not spent enough time with the public

Nijmegen · 17-05-2019 10:49am

Locker10a wrote: »

LOL if you think that will deter passengers you’ve not spent enough time with the public

Then it's up to the crew to tell people to take their bag down the back, put it under their seat or it goes in the hold. But I have to say, a sign and a curtain seems to deter 90% of problems on other airlines.

joeysoap · 17-05-2019 11:17am

Part of the problem is AL cabin crew in general are ‘too nice’, and coupled with the some passengers displaying a sense of ‘entitlement’ , might cause problems with overhead bins.

I was on a fairly full flight last year and the overheads were quite full and crew were making announcements about putting small items under seats. One of the crew was walking the aircraft looking for space when he stopped in front of me as asked who owned the hat. When he asked the gent to remove it you should have seen the glare he got.

Van.Bosch · 17-05-2019 11:59am

joeysoap wrote: »

Part of the problem is AL cabin crew in general are ‘too nice’, and coupled with the some passengers displaying a sense of ‘entitlement’ , might cause problems with overhead bins.

I was on a fairly full flight last year and the overheads were quite full and crew were making announcements about putting small items under seats. One of the crew was walking the aircraft looking for space when he stopped in front of me as asked who owned the hat. When he asked the gent to remove it you should have seen the glare he got.

I hate being asked to put my backpack under a seat, if that’s all I carry on and it’s smaller than a carry on case why should I have less leg room?

Kev11491 · 17-05-2019 12:17pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I hate being asked to put my backpack under a seat, if that’s all I carry on and it’s smaller than a carry on case why should I have less leg room?

To be fair, someone in your row might need the space for their larger cabin bag. Would you rather its sent say to an overhead at the back of the plane rather than you putting your small bag in front of you? People who cooperate with flight attendants make flying less stressful for everyone else.

Locker10a · 17-05-2019 12:43pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I hate being asked to put my backpack under a seat, if that’s all I carry on and it’s smaller than a carry on case why should I have less leg room?

Some airlines have resorted to tagging bags with a label that states where to stow it, Both BA and KLM do this. You’ll get a bag that an “under seat bag” or an “not guaranteed in the cabin” label for larger cases. Which is fair, you can’t have it both ways. If you want to guarantee your stuff inside the cabin then bring a bag small enough to fit under the seat. If there’s space for this in the locker at the end of boarding, great, that’s a bonus! If you want guaranteed leg room, book an exit row.

billy few mates · 17-05-2019 6:04pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

Thing is AerSpace is a pretty well understood concept as Eurobusiness. Slap a sticker on the overhead bins in use (or a movable little sign with an adhesive on the back if you're constantly adjusting the amount of aerspace on the plane) that says "For AerSpace passengers only"

That's how they do it on lots of airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss have 'Business Class Bags Only' stickers on overhead stowage containers for the first seven or eight rows.
The easiest way to enforce this is to make it self policing, label them as Aer Space baggage only. Aer Space passengers are given a special label at the gate and the cabin crew member who greets the passengers at the door makes sure no unlabeled luggage goes up there. It should be easy enough to enforce, the AerSpace passengers (or guests) are usually among the first to board.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-05-2019 11:35am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I hate being asked to put my backpack under a seat, if that’s all I carry on and it’s smaller than a carry on case why should I have less leg room?

If it's as small as you say then put it just behind your feet, no loss of legroom for either you or the person behind you.

Locker10a · 18-05-2019 1:03pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If it's as small as you say then put it just behind your feet, no loss of legroom for either you or the person behind you.

That’s a good solution but during take off and landing, all loose items should be secured under the seat in front. To prevent loose items ending up in the aisle tripping people up in any potential emergency situation/evacuation.

Conor84 · 18-05-2019 2:47pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I wonder if regional flying might be extended to jets ? CityJet have along with LCY started doing BHX for EI.

Is it just weekend flights to BHX when LCY isn't operating or more than that? I can't see any real gaps in the weekday schedule if it is done with just 2 aircraft.

When does the Aer Lingus/Stobart deal come up for renewal. Could there be some changes to the routes operated as part of that. Was thinking Jersey could be a better fit for the Cityjet a/c and allow for extra flights at the weekend. Also I remember EDI early flights being planned to operate on A320s on the peak 1457 days during last winter but I don't think that actually happened?
?

Jack1985 · 18-05-2019 2:50pm

I see Qatar have signalled there intent to remove all 27 A330's from operation by 2022 with an average age of just over 13 years...

Locker10a · 18-05-2019 2:59pm

Conor84 wrote: »

Is it just weekend flights to BHX when LCY isn't operating or more than that? I can't see any real gaps in the weekday schedule if it is done with just 2 aircraft.

When does the Aer Lingus/Stobart deal come up for renewal. Could there be some changes to the routes operated as part of that. Was thinking Jersey could be a better fit for the Cityjet a/c and allow for extra flights at the weekend. Also I remember EDI early flights being planned to operate on A320s on the peak 1457 days during last winter but I don't think that actually happened?
?

I think the Stobart deal is up until 2022. Interestingly Stobart recently added Ejets to their fleet, which would be an ideal addition to the EIR network on certain routes.

VG31 · 18-05-2019 3:02pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I think the Stobart deal is up until 2022. Interestingly Stobart recently added Ejets to their fleet, which would be an ideal addition to the EIR network on certain routes.

If their on time record with Flybe and KLM is anything to go, EI would be best to avoid Stobart's E-Jets!

Locker10a · 18-05-2019 3:48pm

VG31 wrote: »

If their on time record with Flybe and KLM is anything to go, EI would be best to avoid Stobart's E-Jets!

The rogue Flybe Jet is long gone as far as I know. They operate 2 ex Virgin Oz E190s for BA without issue and the KLM operation while poor from an OTP perspective is out of their hands really as they just do the schedule given to them by KLM.
They’re new to Ejet operations, once things settle there’s no reason the shouldn’t operate as smoothly as the ATRs have done for many years.

Jack1985 · 18-05-2019 4:19pm

Locker10a wrote: »

The rogue Flybe Jet is long gone as far as I know. They operate 2 ex Virgin Oz E190s for BA without issue and the KLM operation while poor from an OTP perspective is out of their hands really as they just do the schedule given to them by KLM.
They’re new to Ejet operations, once things settle there’s no reason the shouldn’t operate as smoothly as the ATRs have done for many years.

The aircraft is being massively affected by slots to/from AMS as its planned to fly 8 sectors each day without much recovery time between turnarounds and as such there is very little room for maneuver to reduce delays which are being allowed to build throughout the day.

tanya1987 · 18-05-2019 4:51pm

I heard that EI would expand slowly their short haul flights since the Ryanair interline deal didn’t go through and also due to limited slots in DUB airport, aer lingus would overnight a few aircraft in european key cities like it did before (ams cdg and somewhere in Germany). With all the planned extra capacity on long haul to North America they need to keep up with the connections offer. But I always thought this would be operated by EI and airbus320/1LR, never heard they’d push the new jets from stobart to operate these routes in the future

Locker10a · 18-05-2019 5:08pm

tanya1987 wrote: »

I heard that EI would expand slowly their short haul flights since the Ryanair interline deal didn’t go through and also due to limited slots in DUB airport, aer lingus would overnight a few aircraft in european key cities like it did before (ams cdg and somewhere in Germany). With all the planned extra capacity on long haul to North America they need to keep up with the connections offer. But I always thought this would be operated by EI and airbus320/1LR, never heard they’d push the new jets from stobart to operate these routes in the future

The Stobart jets aren’t pencilled in for anything with EI, just speculation here that they’d be a good addition to add capacity to some current Aer Lingus Regional route.

kevinandrew · 19-05-2019 1:04am

I’d be very surprised if Aer Lingus opted to overnight aircraft in Europe, I do think it makes sense going forward as a network carrier but Aer Lingus are so painfully cost conscious, more so than any other IAG carrier, that the benefits of overnighting would want to seriously outweigh the costs.

The short haul network has been stagnant for years, there’s been little real investment into growing the network or fleet, it’s just been very clever fleet management and deals with Stobart, CityJet and ASL Ireland to free up existing A320s for minor growth. The question of fleet replacement will need answering soon, the obvious choice is for A320neo’s but there needs to be serious consideration for a regional jet of some kind, either directly operated or via a partner such as CityJet/Stobart/Hibernian or someone else.

While Aer Lingus continues to do well in its safe markets; the UK, major euro cities and summer sun, it struggles elsewhere and that needs to change or they’ll be left behind in markets they should already have tied up.

sherology · 19-05-2019 10:09am

Were it me... I'd focus EI on those core, EuroCity and UK routes, base my mainline fleet on the a321lr (for flexibility), the a320neo with 5 rows of premium economy seats up front, slimline for the remainder with good legroom, sell the front as AerSpace on sun routes at a 'comfort' premium but not a stupid business one, and price it well for routes that will pay. Some people do have money and will pay a bit more if they actually 'get something tangible' and 'visibly' different. No need for curtains or linens... An open cabin with different seats and styling, more room, free trolley food (on first pass), and first on and off.

I think EI is the correct size to be unique and excel in a very bland and LCC market, differentiate itself from those airlines (eurobiz is a joke 'by design'), and should make it's profits there. Leave LCC/risk to others, those more obscure routes that are hard to market and make daily, and interline with the current competition (doesn't have to be just FR). Then build the airline up again in Europe based on that boutique (bit efficient/cost-effective) product... With friendly crew.

Paying anything extra to sit on the same seat, with the same legroom as anyone else is a bit stupid really. A 'little' differentiation in seating is needed.

I of course will be on the saver slimline seats... But I do see a good % of passengers on priority and AerClub lines who really should get a little more for their money... And will likely fork out additional money for a wrapped up differentiated AerSpace product/open cabin.

Locker10a · 19-05-2019 5:11pm

Got a glimpse of the new uniform today, looks very good, slightly reminiscent of one of the Ib Jorgensen designs but obviously without the hat, and features much more navy. Much more options for the girls including dress, skirt and trousers. Will be a great addition to the brand refresh.

sherology · 19-05-2019 6:05pm

Above: cool... Looking forward to seeing something inside the plane ðŸ€”

Jamie2k9 · 19-05-2019 9:45pm

SNN-BOS is scheduled with A321 LR for winter season.

The July cuts at DUB/SNN now extend an extra two weeks and service commences 15 August.

Pure speculation on my part but on the assumption of all SNN going LR in summer 2020, would they send an LR to LHR in the morning and use 320 to fly the bucket and spade routes and the final two LHR rotations. Free up aircraft at Cork/Dublin and end W service.

It would be efficient use of resources however they would need to do some slot changing for the lunchtime LHR which should be possible.

Conor84 · 19-05-2019 11:11pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

SNN-BOS is scheduled with A321 LR for winter season.

The July cuts at DUB/SNN now extend an extra two weeks and service commences 15 August.

Pure speculation on my part but on the assumption of all SNN going LR in summer 2020, would they send an LR to LHR in the morning and use 320 to fly the bucket and spade routes and the final two LHR rotations. Free up aircraft at Cork/Dublin and end W service.

It would be efficient use of resources however they would need to do some slot changing for the lunchtime LHR which should be possible.

Does this mean that Aer Lingus are doing both New York and Boston from Shannon during the winter? That would be a major increase over past years where only one route operated?

I suspected that Shannon would have the final 2 B757s to allow the Dublin hub standardise aircraft and develop.

Switching the early morning LHR to the neo would make sense in offering a strong product for those connecting from New York and Boston to LHR. The early morning departure to Malaga/Faro would need to be at about 6am to allow the aircraft return and operate 2 later sectors to LHR from about 1330/1345 but this would greatly boost aircraft utilisation and free up an aircraft for other routes

marno21 · 20-05-2019 11:36am

There was a post alright before that Boston and New York would continue through the winter when the 321s come in. Looks like the improved economics of the 321 really helps here.

Jamie2k9 · 20-05-2019 11:41am

marno21 wrote: »

There was a post alright before that Boston and New York would continue through the winter when the 321s come in. Looks like the improved economics of the 321 really helps here.

NY will be suspended between Jan-Mar. Going up against DY last winter might not have paid off if current schedules stay.

adam88 · 24-05-2019 9:52am

Sorry for this, don’t think it’s deserving of its own thread,,, We ba 321 reg g-medn this morning in Dublin. It has four full sized doors. What’s the deal with that. Through the 321 only had three full doors. Is the cabin different inside it. Full business product ??

Locker10a · 24-05-2019 10:04am

adam88 wrote: »

Sorry for this, don’t think it’s deserving of its own thread,,, We ba 321 reg g-medn this morning in Dublin. It has four full sized doors. What’s the deal with that. Through the 321 only had three full doors. Is the cabin different inside it. Full business product ??

The a321 has always had 4 doors, some of the new NEOs only have 2/3 doors with an overwing exit

adam88 · 24-05-2019 10:43am

Locker10a wrote: »

The a321 has always had 4 doors, some of the new NEOs only have 2/3 doors with an overwing exit

My bad. I’ll go back to sleep lol.

goingnowhere · 24-05-2019 11:23am

adam88 wrote: »

My bad. I’ll go back to sleep lol.

Strictly speaking doors 1,2,4 are full sized, door 3 is a plug door but is smaller like the A330 door 3

Airbus made a design mistake with the A321 they put the door 2, 1-2 frames to far to the rear so it was too close to the engine and wing to safely use most jetbridges

LiamaDelta · 24-05-2019 12:45pm

adam88 wrote: »

Sorry for this, don’t think it’s deserving of its own thread,,, We ba 321 reg g-medn this morning in Dublin. It has four full sized doors. What’s the deal with that. Through the 321 only had three full doors. Is the cabin different inside it. Full business product ??

Not sure if they've been refitted now, but up to two years ago some of the A321's were ex BMI and they still had the mid-range business cabin. 2+1 across and almost lie flat.

goingnowhere · 24-05-2019 1:46pm

Its been refitted sadly

kevinandrew · 25-05-2019 3:37am

First A321LR for Aer Lingus now in full colours.

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/955904/d-ayav-aer-lingus-airbus-a321-253nx

St. Ruadán

cson · 25-05-2019 3:01pm

Assuming the German flag on the tail will be removed once its done its testing and reverts to its Irish reg?

Locker10a · 25-05-2019 3:06pm

cson wrote: »

Assuming the German flag on the tail will be removed once its done its testing and reverts to its Irish reg?

Of course

sherology · 25-05-2019 3:17pm

Great to see... Thanks.

kevinandrew · 25-05-2019 4:53pm

On closer inspection, I'm even more confused by the door configuration. It looks like they've deactivated door 3 and activated the second optional overwing exit which would make them the only A321LR customer so far to do this.

This, combined with the online seat map, is a little worrying as it essentially confirms Aer Lingus has opted for a high density door configuration with a half rear galley, three rear toilets and nothing else.

Compared to other operators, this is pretty harsh for passengers and crew alike, for example, TAP has opted for a full rear galley and two toilets + door 3 and a single toilet just behind business class. Air Transat has gone for a full rear galley and one toilet + two mid-cabin toilets at door 3 so both airlines have facilities evenly spread and keep a fully functional rear galley, perfect for transatlantic operations.

Of course, the seatmap online could be wrong...

sherology · 25-05-2019 6:29pm

That's what I was thinking... Not necessarily the spaceflex/half-galley, but the inability of crew to have a private area. The current a321 with EI has a couple of toilets before the back door, so the whole rear is curtained off for crew and doors/galley. On a 7hr flight I would assume crew would want privacy during their break moreso than on shorthaul... And passengers the ability to grab a water from somewhere accessible (like the forward door 2 galley on the a330), without annoying the resting crew.

It's kind of a shorthaul layout on a longhaul operation.

With EI unions, I can't imagine the online layout is 'approved'... Then again... It's a lease... Maybe the lessor wanted the spaceflex layout for future flexibility.

Time will tell.

Shamrockj · 25-05-2019 8:20pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

On closer inspection, I'm even more confused by the door configuration. It looks like they've deactivated door 3 and activated the second optional overwing exit which would make them the only A321LR customer so far to do this.

This, combined with the online seat map, is a little worrying as it essentially confirms Aer Lingus has opted for a high density door configuration with a half rear galley, three rear toilets and nothing else.

Compared to other operators, this is pretty harsh for passengers and crew alike, for example, TAP has opted for a full rear galley and two toilets + door 3 and a single toilet just behind business class. Air Transat has gone for a full rear galley and one toilet + two mid-cabin toilets at door 3 so both airlines have facilities evenly spread and keep a fully functional rear galley, perfect for transatlantic operations.

Of course, the seatmap online could be wrong...

Turkish Airlines operate the A321NEO which is basically the same as the LR minus extra fuel tanks with doors 3 deactivated and the 4 over wing exits currently.

I honestly cant see them opting for the toilets in the rear of the aircraft configuration. There wouldn't be enough space for all the catering on a transatlantic flight. Plus the 757 has a full galley and it's even less passengers but I could be wrong.. we will find out!

Skidfingers · 27-05-2019 4:47pm

I'm flying to LA next week with Aer Lingus. Does anyone know what the WiFi is like on the flight or have had any experience with it? I've heard a few people saying it doesn't work.

jesus_thats_gre · 27-05-2019 5:09pm

It's rubbish basically - based on 7/8 flights.

NH2013 · 27-05-2019 5:47pm

Yeh, its only good for emails and some light browsing, not great for websites with a lot of images (insta/facebook etc) and definitely no good for streaming. Fine if you want to get some work done while in the air and send off emails but that's about it.

Also I read recently that Panasonic, the company that manages the internet on board Aer Lingus flights, had a satellite malfunction and burn up in space recently in the last few weeks leaving a large coverage gap over the Atlantic, and significantly reducing speed further in other areas as other satellites take up the slack.

Aer Lingus on board WiFi is all satellite based, which is extremely slow and highly expensive as well, there's no ground based element to it as it's mostly used over the ocean.

Tenger · 27-05-2019 6:56pm

sherology wrote: »

..............
It's kind of a shorthaul layout on a longhaul operation.........
....................Time will tell.

That’s my thought on the A321LR. Cabin flex is designed to give a better seat numbers for the airline. With its smaller galley and smaller toilets allowing more seats.
The ‘fuel tanks’ in the hold reduce baggage and cargo space.
So you have a short haul cabin operating medium/long haul flights of up to 8 hours duration (DUB-ORD), the expected XLR variant will exacerbate this with 4 of those fuel ‘tanks’ in the hold.

I remember working on the A321s when EI got them back in 98/99. Lots of galley space as it was full service back then. Everyone got a tray or a sandwich. EI transatlantic service is a mealtray for each pax in Economy, along with a snack before landing into the US.
From chatting a while back to 2 mates who are still in Aer Lingus, they tell me that the B757 struggles to hold all the catering. I’m guessing the A321LR will have less storage in the galley?

Skidfingers · 28-05-2019 8:48am

NH2013 wrote: »

Yeh, its only good for emails and some light browsing, not great for websites with a lot of images (insta/facebook etc) and definitely no good for streaming. Fine if you want to get some work done while in the air and send off emails but that's about it.

Also I read recently that Panasonic, the company that manages the internet on board Aer Lingus flights, had a satellite malfunction and burn up in space recently in the last few weeks leaving a large coverage gap over the Atlantic, and significantly reducing speed further in other areas as other satellites take up the slack.

Aer Lingus on board WiFi is all satellite based, which is extremely slow and highly expensive as well, there's no ground based element to it as it's mostly used over the ocean.

Thanks for the reply. It would be mainly Snapchat/Insta/Facebook I'd be using it for. It's best to probably leave it so.

eamo_c · 28-05-2019 9:56am

Anyone know what plane is flying DUB-IAD today? Will decide whether to use an upgrade voucher if it's not EI-GEY

Shamrockj · 28-05-2019 10:21am

eamo_c wrote: »

Anyone know what plane is flying DUB-IAD today? Will decide whether to use an upgrade voucher if it's not EI-GEY

It's down as -EWR at the moment

Jack1985 · 28-05-2019 10:59pm

Tenger wrote: »

That’s my thought on the A321LR. Cabin flex is designed to give a better seat numbers for the airline. With its smaller galley and smaller toilets allowing more seats.
The ‘fuel tanks’ in the hold reduce baggage and cargo space.
So you have a short haul cabin operating medium/long haul flights of up to 8 hours duration (DUB-ORD), the expected XLR variant will exacerbate this with 4 of those fuel ‘tanks’ in the hold.

I remember working on the A321s when EI got them back in 98/99. Lots of galley space as it was full service back then. Everyone got a tray or a sandwich. EI transatlantic service is a mealtray for each pax in Economy, along with a snack before landing into the US.
From chatting a while back to 2 mates who are still in Aer Lingus, they tell me that the B757 struggles to hold all the catering. I’m guessing the A321LR will have less storage in the galley?

The below is accurate however by maximising tail space they have deep core ovens and cart stowage space which should actually allow stowage off all catering requirements (unlike the 757 with blocked off overhead bins from 31-32). It just means less manoeuvring space and the risk of pax striking toilet doors or moving carts increases. More movement required to work in the galleys so I’d expect H&S issues to be above average on it. Other airlines with Space Flex have either removed it (Delta) or pointed out it increases their own Cabin Crews workload.

Locker10a · 28-05-2019 11:11pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

The below is accurate however by maximising tail space they have deep core ovens and cart stowage space which should actually allow stowage off all catering requirements (unlike the 757 with blocked off overhead bins from 31-32). It just means less manoeuvring space and the risk of pax striking toilet doors or moving carts increases. More movement required to work in the galleys so I’d expect H&S issues to be above average on it. Other airlines with Space Flex have either removed it (Delta) or pointed out it increases their own Cabin Crews workload.

Yeah my old company have that new flex galley, they're notoriously poor quality. Theres pulley systems to bring forward double stowage carts and canisters, but the system is constantly broken. This has caused numerous personal injuries to crew who have to crew into the trolley stowages to physically pull out the behind cart.
Aer Lingus are about to get a rude awakening here when their “looks great on paper/€” actually results in injury and a dispute with crew

Jamie2k9 · 29-05-2019 10:18pm

A321LR showing (April 2020) on DUB-IAD/PHL/BDL and SNN-BOS. Not looked at adjustments over winter.

Jack1985 · 31-05-2019 10:08pm

757 operation update with planned exits from fleet as below as the ASL operations comes to a planned close (subject to change);

EI-LBR 31/10/19
EI-LBS 30/11/19
EI-LBT 30/12/19
EI-CJX 30/04/20

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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