What age to start primary

Augustduck · 28-10-2020 10:59am #1

Hi,

What age is best to start my child in school? He will turn 1 in December this year. in September 2024 he will be 4.9 months and in September 2025 he will be 5.9 months.

Is 4.9 months too young, would he be at a disadvantage?

fits · 28-10-2020 11:05am

I have twins who were born early in December. One has special needs. I plan to send him to school when he is 5 Years 9 months. His brother will likely Start next September at 4 years 9 months. I have same questions as you though but he is not entitled to another year of ECCE.

glack · 28-10-2020 11:14am

Augustduck wrote: »

Hi,

What age is best to start my child in school? He will turn 1 in December this year. in September 2024 he will be 4.9 months and in September 2025 he will be 5.9 months.

Is 4.9 months too young, would he be at a disadvantage?

I’m a primary school teacher. In an average classroom, majority of children are generally somewhere between 4 years 6 months and 5 years 8 months. Assuming your child’s development is somewhat typical, I would say he should be ready at 4 years 9 months. Would most likely be in the younger part of the class but very unlikely to be the youngest. It really is impossible to make that judgement so far out though - it really depends on the child! Some are more emotionally mature than others (this is far more relevant to starting school than any perceived academic ability). Also worth noting that all schools have a different dynamic on age so you should look into what age would be average for your child’s school. It may be the case that almost all children are 5 heading to school-in which case I would wait. You just don’t want him to be significantly younger than the norm in his class as that tends to be obvious their entire 8 years in primary.

Augustduck · 28-10-2020 11:37am

Thank you for your insight. True, I guess I will have to wait a couple of years before making the decision, interested to hear if there is a big difference in peoples experience about waiting and if he would be considered old to be starting school at nearly 6. Assuming the education system will be the same in his future he would be 17.9 years starting 6th year if he skips 4th year.

Damien360 · 28-10-2020 11:41am

The extra year before starting school makes a big difference in cop on and will help their education significantly. We sent our first at 4 years 6 months and our second at 5 years 10 months. The difference is night and day. First was wild and looked way out of place with his older classmates in actions. Teachers never stopped complaining. Second had the cop on to know how to interact. Golden child in school !

Augustduck · 28-10-2020 11:59am

Yes id imagine at that age a year makes a big difference. Thanks. I will have to decide before they begin ECCE.

Kathnora · 28-10-2020 12:10pm

I am also a primary teacher ...of the elder lemon variety! So, back in the day children started school shortly after their 4th birthday as did my own children and if they were on the young side TY in secondary ensured they were 18 doing the Leaving Cert. How things have changed! I am glad to see children starting school a bit later but I think an average of 5yrs is about right. Most children attend preschool for two years and should be ready for school after that (unless there are specific needs involved). I think 5yrs 9mths is late. At that age my daughter was more than half way through Senior Infants. 4yrs 9mths is a good age, I think. I would be concerned about a child becoming bored and unmotivated if he or she is attending preschool after 4.5/5yrs of age. I also think that you could possibly be keeping the child at the "baby" stage for longer than necessary and the child may not be challenged or stretched to reach their potential at that age. Remember ... the average child did survive school when they started at 4+. Readiness for school has a lot to to with how the child is managed by their parents too. If they are spoiled, indulged, treated like a baby, have everything done for them etc then they won't be ready.

L'prof · 28-10-2020 12:55pm

I was 4-4 starting primary school which was a bit young. I was 17 for the entire first year in college. As I’d encourage my children to do transition year I’d have no issue with them starting at that age and turning 18 just before their leaving cert. I don’t think I’d send them any younger though. My two are born in October and December so I’d likely send them when they’re 4-9 and 4-11 and would be turning 19 shortly after starting college. I always look back and wish I had the option of transition year. At the time I couldn’t wait to finish

Augustduck · 28-10-2020 3:50pm

Thanks, yes I do worry if the pace would be too slow if he was 5.9months but wouldn't like him to be behind either if other kids were older and better prepared, I guess it really depends how ready he is closer to the time

fits · 28-10-2020 5:21pm

Just had both in with speech therapist this afternoon and she recommended I go ahead next September with my typical boy at 4 yr 9 months. She reckons he’d be under stimulated doing another year of ECCE. Each child different though.

jlm29 · 28-10-2020 6:32pm

Augustduck wrote: »

Yes id imagine at that age a year makes a big difference. Thanks. I will have to decide before they begin ECCE.

Just to note- I’m pretty sure you can’t decide which two years he does ecce. It goes by age. So if you’re planning on him starting school at 5 and 9 mo, you’ll have to pay for the year before of preschool, even if he’s only availed of one year.

Cyrus · 28-10-2020 6:34pm

ive often heard it said you will never regret starting them in school a little older but you may regret starting them a little younger, although your case 4 and 9 months is probably fine imo.

jlm29 · 28-10-2020 6:35pm

I have a November and December baby. Both started at 4 and 8/9 months with no issues. They’re not the youngest in the class. It seems that anyone with a birthday up to around February started at 4, and after that they waited. But I’m sure it varies from place to place

fits · 28-10-2020 7:32pm

jlm29 wrote: »

Just to note- I’m pretty sure you can’t decide which two years he does ecce. It goes by age. So if you’re planning on him starting school at 5 and 9 mo, you’ll have to pay for the year before of preschool, even if he’s only availed of one year.

This is the case. I queried it as my babies came early they were due in January. but they said there could be no exception made for typical boy. My other boy should get the exemption with no issues I hope.

Gael23 · 28-10-2020 7:36pm

I would send him in September 2024 he’ll be just under 5 then. You know best though, if you feel he isn’t ready. If you wait the extra year he will be the oldest in his class most likely

heldel00 · 28-10-2020 7:48pm

My girls is an early Jan baby. She is not attending preschool this year because 31st Dec is the cut off point to start the following Sept (a big mistake the government is making but what's new!)
She will be starting at 4 yrs 9 months. The issue is really with April May June babies as they are usually too young, in my professional opinion, and are not ready. Even March can be very dependent on the individual child.
I teach 4th 5th this year. Oldest child in 5th will be 12 in March and and youngest in 4th will be 10, also March. We have to avoid any discussion of Santy because of age diff.

fits · 28-10-2020 8:53pm

The ECCE cut off thing is ridiculous. Why don’t they let parents make up their own minds? My friends child was due before ours but born a month after. So he’s probably doing another ECCE year. My typical boy is flying now but wasn’t toilet trained this time last year so missed out on last years ECCE. 2 yr 9 month is very young to start preschool for many.

jlm29 · 28-10-2020 8:59pm

fits wrote: »

The ECCE cut off thing is ridiculous. Why don’t they let parents make up their own minds? My friends child was due before ours but born a month after. So he’s probably doing another ECCE year. My typical boy is flying now but wasn’t toilet trained this time last year so missed out on last years ECCE. 2 yr 9 month is very young to start preschool for many.

Yes. It’s mad. I know a few with jan babies who paid for the first year of ecce. My second boy couldn’t do the first year either because he wasn’t trained. Every child is so different, parents should be able to decide

Millem · 28-10-2020 9:38pm

Assuming school starts on the 1st of September a January child will either be 4/5 years and 8 months or 4/5 years and 7ish months.

Fits I waited till my January son was 5 years and 7.5 months. At the time my husband thought it was a mistake as he is a bright boy who is very sporty. He agrees now it was absolutely the decision as I can only describe the yard as the Wild Wild West.
He is now in Senior Infants. I think there are only 4 or 5 kids in his class who didn’t take the extra year of the ECCE. I do have the birthday list somewhere! In the last few weeks his GAA and Rugby team split them into the the year the were born. Some of the boys have left as they would now have to play with Junior Infants others have reregistered and basically changed their date of birth as they want to be with their friends.

In the other Senior Infant class the youngest is a December baby.

OP I would follow the ECCE age for your child so send them at 4 years and 8 and something months. You know your child best though. Repeating a year seems to be next to impossible.

My son did 3 years of preschool as will my middle child and (hopefully if there is a spot) my youngest. The Montesorri teacher is phenomenal and I never had any worries they would get bored.

Murple · 29-10-2020 6:48pm

Augustduck wrote: »

Hi,

What age is best to start my child in school? He will turn 1 in December this year. in September 2024 he will be 4.9 months and in September 2025 he will be 5.9 months.

Is 4.9 months too young, would he be at a disadvantage?

I think he’d be a very good age starting in 2024. It also allows for him being able to do 4th year and if necessary repeat his LC and get to college before he turns 30!!!
Tracking his age through primary may help as it’s not just about JI. If he starts at 5y9, he will turn 7 in his first term of SI, 9 in his first term of 2nd class and will be 13 for more than 6 months of 6th class.
I’ve heard that often used phrase about regretting sending a child younger but never regretting sending them older and to be honest it’s nonsense. It may be relevant if considering sending a child a few weeks after their 4th birthday vs after their 5th but I’ve taught quite a number of children who were definitely too old for class they are in. Also, the older children often find 6th class very difficult as they have outgrown primary school.
Of course if a child has an additional need such as a significant speech difficulty, learning or behaviour need or has experienced a trauma, then an extra year before starting school may be needed but in general, 4y 9 is absolutely perfect for starting school.

shesty · 29-10-2020 6:55pm

Wait and see what the general age profile of the ECCE class, and the ones moving to JI are.

I think 2014 was the first year where kids were entitled to get 2 years of ECCE.My first is a 2014 baby and is in Senior Infants, She was 6 in June,so she was 5 and 2 months going in to Junior Infants.She is probably towards the younger end of the class....they mainly started to turn 5 in their second ECCE year in her class.A few stragglers turned 6 there in late August/September.I think the age profile of kids IS a little bit older going in now.Personally I am all for waiting but I appreciate Dec/Jan are slightly awkward months in that way.It generally isn't academic ability by the way, it is social and emotional skills that are the issue.My April and May babies will not be starting school until they are 5.

You could possibly accept the school place for 4 and 9 mths and defer til the following year if you feel he isn't ready.

pooch90 · 29-10-2020 10:16pm

I've taught senior infants for almost a decade. I would always encourage parents to keep them the extra year before starting, particularly boys.

My eldest will be turning 5 this January and starting primary school the following September.
He is well able for the academic side of school, I've been doing bits and pieces and he can do some 1st class content but maturity wise I know he wouldn't get the best from school. His fine motor skills aren't well developed yet and I know I've made the right decision.
He was 2 weeks over the ECCE cut off date.

fits · 29-10-2020 11:43pm

pooch90 wrote: »

I've taught senior infants for almost a decade. I would always encourage parents to keep them the extra year before starting, particularly boys.

My eldest will be turning 5 this January and starting primary school the following September.
He is well able for the academic side of school, I've been doing bits and pieces and he can do some 1st class content but maturity wise I know he wouldn't get the best from school. His fine motor skills aren't well developed yet and I know I've made the right decision.
He was 2 weeks over the ECCE cut off date.

If his birthday was dec 31 would you still keep him the extra year?

pooch90 · 30-10-2020 1:34pm

I probably would tbh.

shesty · 30-10-2020 2:32pm

I do know a few December babies fits, turned 5 last year and this year - parents are holding/held them back to start school at 5 and 10 months, just paying for the second half of the ECCE year.It is creeping in a bit more I think, not as unusual as it used to be.Still very much up to you though really, to see what you think.

Millem · 30-10-2020 3:38pm

Fits will both of your boys go to the same school?

fits · 30-10-2020 5:20pm

That's the plan at present. However its hard for us to objectively judge what would suit the boy with special needs better. I guess the psychological reports will help us to make a decision. He's coping well in mainstream pre-school. He has a significant speech delay among other things.

byhookorbycrook · 30-10-2020 7:02pm

Primary teacher here too with 30 years of experience (eek.) Making enormous generalizations, boys tend to be more immature socially and are usually better off starting a little later. Given the choice, I'd wait. You can often pick out the boys who started quite early and a good start is so important for any child.
That said, the boy might be fine, but given the choice, I'd wait.

heldel00 · 30-10-2020 8:21pm

^^^ but a December boy ByHook??? I've never considered Dec DOB too early to start?

andekwarhola · 30-10-2020 8:27pm

We've 2 boys and we waited the year for them to start. In terms of my own boys, I'd wholly echo the view that starting when they did meant they were a bit more mature and socially ready for school but it depends on the child I guess.

I think it's good - IMO obviously - for kids to be a bit older when in secondary and leaving secondary too.

mirrorwall14 · 30-10-2020 8:36pm

Late jan boy here now in senior infants. He started at 4 on the advice of montessori and the creche we moved to in April of that year. I’ve always worried it was the wrong call but the primary teachers tell me he is doing great. Mum of his best friend had late feb boy, second child. She held him back and totally regretted it as he was bored. He’s fine now in JI. I think ultimately we all worry TBH

byhookorbycrook · 31-10-2020 12:50am

A good pre-school shouldn’t bore a child , though .

dara10 · 31-10-2020 12:53am

December birthday should definitely start school at 4. March-May babies seems to be the youngest in Junior Infants these days so your child wouldn't be the youngest. The curriculum in infants has a lot of play. Also think of being 13.5 in 6th class, 19.5 doing the leaving, its too old those environments aren't geared up for kids that old.
ECCE cut offs are messed up and don't correspond with school start ages (they work off calendar years but schools work off school years, though some impose a 4 by summer cut off). I complained but didn't get anywhere. Eleven out of 27 in my child's class were born between Jan and April and skipped the second year of ECCE. December is perfect as you get the 2 years of ECCE and can start at 4.

You don't need to apply to schools until the year before they start and even then you can accept a place and later decline. Don't worry about school when he is so young.

Millem · 31-10-2020 7:05am

Dara I would disagree with you re the Leaving cert and I am a secondary school teacher. In my opinion the older the better.
Also those mad 6th year holidays too (I know not everyone goes on them) and for moving out of home for college.
I would be in favour of all my kids doing a PLC course (at 19) before doing a degree. There is no rush. You would like to think every year brings maturity.

The curriculum in JI and SI (from what I can see) seems basic eg maths is figures 0-5 in JI and 6-10 in SI. My son knew all that already from Montesorri.
I do my own reading and maths at home with him.
The big learning/changes for my son are all the other things like yard, standing up for yourself etc. I am guessing some students also find it hard to sit in their seats and not wander around the room. A primary school teacher would have a lot more insight.

Millem · 31-10-2020 7:16am

fits wrote: »

That's the plan at present. However its hard for us to objectively judge what would suit the boy with special needs better. I guess the psychological reports will help us to make a decision. He's coping well in mainstream pre-school. He has a significant speech delay among other things.

We had twins who were in different years
in the same school. I am sure it was very annoying for them explaining my twin is in x class. It came up a few times in my class amongst students.
Maybe on the flip side if they are in different years they might prefer being on their “own” (different friends etc).

When do you need to decide? I am guessing it will be the Montesorri who will really want to know. If you pay privately the need to make sure the have x number of children in the ECCE scheme to get funding, In my children’s Montesorri the teacher could only have one privately paying child.

fits · 31-10-2020 7:59am

That’s amazing you had twins in different years. Would be keen to hear your experience. Yes I think it would benefit both to be in different classes. But it’s a little heartbreaking too.

Millem · 31-10-2020 10:53am

fits wrote: »

That’s amazing you had twins in different years. Would be keen to hear your experience. Yes I think it would benefit both to be in different classes. But it’s a little heartbreaking too.

Sorry we as in my school where I work!!!

Balmed Out · 31-10-2020 11:17am

My late December boy who was due mid January started when he was 5.9. Was way too immature at 4 in comparison to the others who were moving on from creche. He would have been the youngest if he started earlier and the oldest as it is.

My wife is a teacher with about 20 years experience always between junior infants and second class. My daughter was a similar age and there was no doubt of her starting at 4 really depends on the child.

You like what you're good at and good at what you like so sending them too early and they can struggle for years, if the child is well able and waits they may get bored and disinterested.
I coach some of his sports and its very interesting how correlated the abilities are with month of birth, I find myself reminding others that so and so are born in November and December while the others January or February all the time. If you remove the top 10% the rests abilities more or less correspond to their age. Some will get disgruntled and feel they arent up to their peers when holding a hurley or whatever and id hate to think the same is true for maths etc. We try to give them all plenty of positive reinforcement and make sure that with a little help they all get a bit of glory or whatever but what's possible in a two hour training session with a coach to every half dozen kids probably isn't in a classroom.

Kathnora · 31-10-2020 1:04pm

dara10 .... you referred to children being 13.5 in 6th class and 19.5 in 6th year.

While I have no experience of 6th year (primary teacher here) I do know that at 13.5 the 6th class environment does not in many cases suit a child of this age. The hormones are hopping. They are ready to move n to more "teenage" pursuits and may consider some of their classmates to be childish. And there is the possibility that the younger children in the class may be influenced by the older child and their teenage interests too.

I could see the 6th year environment being somewhat unsuitable for a 19.5 year old. At that age I was 6 mths away from graduating as a teacher. Are we in danger here of sheltering our young people too much and delaying the onset of responsibility and maturity???? Just a thought ......

shesty · 01-11-2020 1:03pm

Millem wrote: »

We had twins who were in different years
in the same school. I am sure it was very annoying for them explaining my twin is in x class. It came up a few times in my class amongst students.
Maybe on the flip side if they are in different years they might prefer being on their “own” (different friends etc).
.

Ah gosh!My mum was a teacher, and her school always had a policy of putting twins in separate classes if at all possible, to give them a chance to be their own person (they had a big primary school).

I also worked with someone who had twin daughters...when they started secondary school, the "quieter" twin specifically asked to be put in a different class to her sister, as she wanted to develop her own set of friends.Parents were a bit taken aback and slightly worried but went with it, and both twins thrived - my co-worker (the dad) couldn't believe it.

It's a bit miserable starting college age 16/17 by the way.Maturity-wise you are not up with the rest.Never mind that any events with ID checks you are ruled out of (and it happens more often than you would think).Doing a J1 in 3rd year or whatever, not being 21 in the States -no entry to anything either.Most people graduate around 22/23 now, possibly older as some courses are 5 years.I wouldn't be rushing to get them to the LC at a young age.If you were graduating age 19, nowadays you would have had to go into teaching age 15 to achieve that, and that is just not fair (and probably not possible these days)

Millem · 01-11-2020 3:56pm

shesty wrote: »

Ah gosh!My mum was a teacher, and her school always had a policy of putting twins in separate classes if at all possible, to give them a chance to be their own person (they had a big primary school).

My son is friends with twins. The school he attends always put twins in separate classes too. Being in the same year the boys do tend to kind of share the same friends.

The twins in my school were in separate years. I taught the twin who had stayed back a year in primary school. Never came across his brother. His friends were completely separate as they were a year younger. It’s a big school with over 800 students.

99nsr125 · 01-11-2020 3:58pm

Augustduck wrote: »

Hi,

What age is best to start my child in school? He will turn 1 in December this year. in September 2024 he will be 4.9 months and in September 2025 he will be 5.9 months.

Is 4.9 months too young, would he be at a disadvantage?

5 or more

Later in life is where the real benefit is seen

coffeyt · 01-11-2020 4:12pm

Have to agree with the consensus that it really does depend on the child, my youngest is a december baby also and has just started this year in JI at the age of 4, she will be 5 at the end of December and is absolutely flying it.
Having said that my son is an August baby so was just turned 5 starting and he needed to be, he would not have been ready at even 4 and 1/2, he needed that extra few months so if he had been a december baby I probably would have held off till he was 5 and 8 months.
With regards the other kids, in my sons class now in senior infants the youngest is still 5 and won't be 6 until March and the oldest is just gone 7 since earlier this month so I really wouldn't worry about the ages of other kids as these days it does vary a lot.

MeganOgden · 01-11-2020 11:23pm

I'd say that 6-7 years is really optimal, however it really depends on the child

What age to start primary

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