Now ye're talking - to someone who's lived in a state care home

miamee wrote: »

Hi op, thanks for doing this AMA. How was it that the local health boards allowed you to be homeless as a child? Could they not find a foster family or was there some other issue? How were you able to survive at that age, how did you get fed, etc.?

Hi there.No problem at all. I'm glad to be here

The local health boards were restricted in finding suitable places for me to stay, in actual fact I was placed with 2 foster families and while I ran away from the first one I was removed by gardai from the second due to my behaviour. Social workers were to my understanding obliged to inform any potential foster family of my past from a bad behaviour/criminal perspective in advance of any agreement being put in place. naturally this led to multiple rejections.

I was able to survive on daily food vouchers given to me by a social worker which I was able to exchange in a health board nominated restaurant.

miamee wrote: »

What is the difference between a state care home and a foster family or is that the same thing? Sorry, I don't know much about it at all. Did you ever go back to living with family at a later age?

A state care home is run by the state, it is along the lines of a foster family only that you would see some people from 9-5 Monday to Friday, others for 24 hour periods and you live with other boys, in my case, who would have care requirements that cannot be met by a foster family. The staff in these homes are fully trained professionals to deal with a manner of situations such as hostility to depression and similar situations. They have all studied psychology as part of their qualifications and work in groups of 2/3/4 sometimes more per shift depending on how many young people are in the home.

A foster family for all intents and purposes is just like an ordinary family living on the same street as you but take in young people who are in a crisis, their home setting is no longer suitable or to put it mildly their family have just given them up., effectively abdicating their parental obligations and handing them to the foster family via the state (social work department).

No sadly I never returned home. but in hindsight it was for the best that I didn't. I was literally the child that no one wanted where my family was concerned as was passed from pillar to post as long as I wasn't their problem.

Social workers and care workers intervened on many an occasion to explore potential respite care but this was rejected by each of them despite taking on my other cousins for overnights/weekends/holidays etc. you could say I was literally the black sheep.

Things with my family reached a boiling point that the local health board had to go to court to get a care order in place as I required medical treatment that my family refused to sign for and the excuse was he's your problem not ours so sort it yourselves.

setanta1000 wrote: »

Hi Op - Fair play for doing this AMA; particularly at this time when homelessness and family are are in the news so much.

A few questions: I'm not sure how long ago you were state care but do you think the situation has improved (or gotten worse) now? Do you think someone in a similar position to yours would be treated any differently now?

Looking back now do you think people or the state could or should have done anything different to deal with your situation?

How do you look back on that time now - with anger / sadness / frustration - all of the above and more??

Hi Setanta1000 and thank you

I was in state care in the 1990s into the 2000s. When I look at one of the care unit's I was in today and compare it to my time it is very very different, children now have more of a voice than they ever did which is a good thing, while my own case was in the last 20 years and less it has definitely evolved.


What the state did was either rightly or wrongly, they kept pushing for me to be reintegrated into the family unit and saw very quickly that it wasn't working for a variety of reasons but ploughed on with it never the less despite my own opposition to it, the reason I wasn't listened to is because I was told, oh you're a minor and have no say over what happens, we as adults have that responsibility, it doesn't happen anymore thankfully as the feedback I get from residents in care now is the care is second to none bar not being allowed to have tv's in their bedrooms, which we were allowed but under very strict conditions, this was all before smart tv's etc and even mobile phones were in their infancy in the country.

The number 1 thing the state should have done I might add was put more effort into securing a roof over my head quicker than they did, if the same scenario occurred today it would not be allowed to happen, the reason I say this is I have met children who have come from similar backgrounds to my own with similar stories but they were placed in some form of care within hours either by the gardai or a social worker themselves. The critical part of it all is there was no out of hours social worker then and 20 years later it hasn't changed, these were some of the cracks I fell through at that time.

I look back on my time in care with happiness honestly and became very emotional when I had to eventually leave as the relationships I had built with many of the staff was so close that they felt like family to me, even today I maintain semi regular contact with them, they openly share their phone numbers with me, places of abode and even take time out of their personal lives to meet with me and my children .


The sadness and frustration come together to describe how my family treated the entire situation, while they did engage to an extent, it was on their terms or not at all, the care workers reluctantly agreed to this until one of them got in the middle of a dispute between myself and a family member one night that ended his career as a care worker due to a spinal injury received,then they pulled the plug altogether for safety reasons, thankfully it wasn't so severe that he could never work again, but just not in a high setting that is high tempered and volatile on a daily basis.

angeleyes wrote: »

Hi - your posts are beautifully written.

I just hope you are happy now and in a very good place.

Thank you angeleyes

Telly wrote: »

Do you have other siblings? If so did your parents reflect them too?

Yes I have other siblings, 1 full sibling and unknown amount of half siblings. My parents never married to each other, my father was married to another woman while having an extra marital affair with my mother. My mother had 3 children and retained the youngest for 6 years while myself and another sibling were not retained at all.

Telly wrote: »

Did they try to place you in the same places or were you split up? How is your relationship with your siblings now?

We were all split up, I was of the belief I was an only child until I entered the care system, then I was informed my mother had 2 other children, 1 fostered, 1 adopted.

My relationship with my siblings is non existent.

CPTM wrote: »

Hi OP, thanks for doing the AMA. It has been an interesting read for me.
I had a couple of questions. You clarified the difference between a State care home and a foster family. Is there one which stands out as being better than the other do you think?
Do you think going through the system would make a person more likely or less likely to foster a child? Or no difference? Is it something you would have considered if your circumstances were different and you weren't blessed with your own kids?

Hi CPTM.

Truthfully residential care was better for me than the foster family setting.

In the first foster family I was placed with, I was literally placed there 48 hours after being released from the secure unit which I found very distressing, when I arrived there I immediately knew it would not last, I was raised in the city all my life up to that point and the adjustment to country life was something I was unable to handle, not to mention the mistreatment, such as no phone calls, being put to bed at 6pm on a summers evening, forced to go to mass, being physically restrained by my then foster father who clearly had no TCI (Therapeutic Crisis Intervention) and actually hurt me in the struggle to free myself.

I actually know of 3 current or former staff members who have or were foster parents in addition to their duty as child care workers, in one case a care worker ended up fostering one of my fellow residents upon his discharge from the home.

I would consider it would make a person more likely to foster based on these circumstances.

Now you will always get cases where the foster child is troublesome, like I was myself with my second foster family coming 1 week after running away from the first, and truthfully I loved the second family but ruined it for myself, my foster father was a self employed paving contractor, his wife a social worker for the blind, as it was the summer my foster father took me to work with him to give me some life experiences, which at 13 I had very few proper ones up to that point, I was given pocket money totalling £20 a week for my work, which was a lot of money to a child in the 1990's, I messed it up then one day by taking the keys of his car and attempting to move it, as a result of this I was removed by the gardai once the social work department opened and brought to the local health board offices in a garda car, the garda was very nice and understanding in fairness to him, and unlike now, the garda was actually alone in dealing with me, he was sympathetic to my situation and wished me well upon dropping me off.

If it was just myself and my partner alone yes I would 100% have done it. When my own children are grown up, which is a long time away yet, I will most definitely register for it. I would always encourage those who are considering fostering a child to do it.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How do you feel your own experience is reflected in the way you have your own kids now?

My own experience with my own kids is that they are just that, kids, I don't give out to them for wrong doings, I don't beat them if they don't understand something, these were all the issues I had as a kid myself, i was a punch bag effectively, I adore my children and make sure they know that both mammy and daddy love them very much, this was something I never had and always vowed to use the negatives from my past and channel it into energy to give them a life I could have only dreamed of.

Telly wrote: »

Did grandparents or aunties or uncles not try to take you in? I’m just so shocked at how someone could do this to a 13 yr old child. You’re an amazing man and there’s not even the slightest hint of anger from you for what happened to you. You should be very proud of yourself.

Grandparents were deceased and Aunts/Uncles had their own lives/children, I was an unnecessary liability to them. Some people have no conscience, even for one of their supposed own. If I am truthful there is anger there, not as much as there initially was but the anger still burns away in me. I am engaged with the relative services to help me deal with that.

Gangu wrote: »

Are your parents alive. Have you communicated your disappointment with them to them? Thanks- well done you. You sound very grounded.

Hi Gangu and thank you for your question.

My mother was absent from my life from birth until I was remanded in custody to a juvenile detention centre when I was 13, contact since then has been almost non existent. When I was in contact with her and asked those questions she just deflected away from them saying why am I always living in the past.

My father is a man who I didn't meet until my mid 20's, he claimed no knowledge of me whatsoever and his wife went as far as to call my mother a prostitute, they both knew each other and did not get along, on this basis she insisted on a DNA test, fully certain that it would prove that I was not my father's son, the DNA was conducted and sure enough it came back that I was indeed his son. To his credit, he will answer any question I put to him, but it always appears to be well thought out and full of lies.

My mother has said she just wants to live her own life and has no interest in engaging with me or my children unless it financially benefits her, I have text messages to support this also where she is asking me for money to come and see the children.

My father equally has no interest in my children, only his children & grandchildren from both of his marriages.


The children have met them both of my parents, my mother once & my father 3 times and are old enough to know and remember who they are, I have never hidden who they are and never will, if they wish to seek to meet them when they are older I will fully support that request.

Yes indeed, I am now well grounded thankfully, there was a time where I wondered would it ever occur. Thankfully the lady I met saw the good in me and gave it a chance, we are now together nearly 12 years.

Iang87 wrote: »

Hi OP,

Thanks for this incredible insight. Can I ask why you'd be willing to support your kids decision to seek out your parents when they're older, should they choose to?
Thanks

Hi Iang87,

I am willing to support them in seeking out my parents because I myself never had grandparents plus I would like them to form their own opinion without listening to hearsay about why they don't see them.

The option is there now also, and only once did they express any interest. I don't think they will be interested in seeking to meet with them however as they already have a large maternal family with both grandparents to which they are extremely close. I think it is only right that they should have the choice when they are older than having it made for them.

If the shoe was on the other foot I would like to have the option to see for myself.

setanta1000 wrote: »

Hi OP,

I have to say that the way you are answering these questions and the apparent lack of anger you hold towards those that put you in such a horrible position as a child is inspiring.

Without wanting to give away anything that would identify you, do you work in a social / support role now or did you do something completely different......dunno what......maybe a chicken sexer....?

On a kind of related note did your upbringing / background ever raise any barriers to you as you got older; like not getting opportunities, people assuming you would have a certain reaction or would be "trouble" or anything similar?

Hi Setanta1000,

Yes I am able to manage my anger reasonably well, but as mentioned in an earlier post the anger still burns within me, just not as brightly as it did in previous years, maybe it is just old age now :pac:


In relation to my current situation, I am an office worker but I have little or no face to face contact with the ordinary public in my role, a lot of it is online or telephone based.

Yes my upbringing was difficult in the school classroom, the playground and even on the street, it was apparent to the kids I grew up with that I had no mother or father in my life as teachers weren't as sensitive to those situations as they are today.

The one thing that did cause problems for me in my background which to this day still follows me around is the questions around my education, why was I expelled from school at 13, how did I manage to do my junior certificate if this occurred, equally my leaving certificate and how did I end up in college, along with this my education took place across the East and South of the country over a period of 5 years, again these were awkward questions to which I didn't feel so much as I had to explain myself, but I was open and honest that I was in state care homes, more than 1 of them, and I was education either internally by them or via an external source with close links to them, in a similar fashion to a boarding school type scenario but for juvenile offenders.

I was ejected from mainstream secondary school after a mere 5 months, completely unable to cope with the excessive work load, this combined with no family assistance with any difficulties I had on top sleeping on couches/floors during the school transition didn't help as I had a chronic lack of sleep not helped by the beatings received for speaking out, all prior to being kicked out of the house for good.

I looked over the very extensive files I hold copies of from my time in care since this thread began to look at where I was then to the person/partner/father I have now become and unless you knew me from that era and now you wouldn't think it was the same child who is now an adult.

The one song that helps me reflect on my past is Oasis, don't look back in anger, which song people might find very unusual but it is true.

There is a saying I was once told during my time in care that feeling guilty won't change your past and worrying won't change your future.

If there is anything I haven't covered or forgotten please feel free to let me know, I will openly answer all questions irrespective of how sensitive they may be.

Telly wrote: »

Does your partner come from a “normal” upbringing? Was it hard or easy to tell her about your background?

Yes she comes from a "normal" background and was raised with her parents/siblings.

I didn't find it hard telling her my background but certainly didn't find it easy.


To be truthful she didn't believe it herself initially until she seen the way I was treated by the family in front of her on the street one day. Once my family then realised who she was via a mutual connection (a former work colleague) they attempted to sabotage the relationship by bad mouthing me.
My partners mother & father then realised who I was, knew the family and their own history going back many decades and said that they will judge me on my own merits and not the opinions of someone who clearly only has 1 agenda, to destroy my life due to their own bitterness.

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Hey OP, I don't have much to say other than I'm glad everything seemed to work out for you in the end. My dad just retired a few months ago after working as a care worker in a home, just like the one you were in, for over 20 years.

He says himself he kinda stumbled into the job and initially was met with suspicion by the health service because he's definitely overqualified for the job and isn't Irish, but tbh the job suited him perfectly as he's probably the calmest person I've ever met and has described some incredibly stressful situations he had there each day but never once did it get to him. He still keeps in touch with a lot of the lads who used to live there and some have gone on to be incredibly successful, while he's also had to visit some in prison or their funerals.

I don't envy your upbringing one bit as I was blessed with two loving parents in a great home but I guess reading through this thread made me even more proud of my parents (my mam's also a care worker) for the work they do/did and the lives they helped.

Hi MightyMandarin,

I'm sure over the 20 years your father could tell you that no 2 days in that job were ever the same, but in the 20 years think about the positive input he contributed to young people's lives.

Tell him from me as a former resident, that it is the likes of himself that help young people to make success stories of themselves, while not all young people go on to be successful, those who do and did are reliant on people like your dad to guide them.

Care homes are amongst some of the most stressful places to work in and the stories your dad told you no doubt tally up with that.

Good to hear that he still keeps in touch, it is very refreshing to hear that former staff are equally as interested in keeping in touch as some of the young people of the time like myself are.

I have never visited prisons even though a number of residents I lived with are currently doing very long stretches for serious crimes, and funerals is another area that has touched myself, I attended the funeral of a care worker who tragically took his own life in recent years, he was a young man with young children and we would never have suspected it, the same gentleman was hugely influential to me and was a sort of mentor who was very popular with every one he knew and met.

A husband and wife as care workers was something I only came across once before, and isn't hugely common, nor is the scenario I had where a mother, her son & daughter were all care workers in the same home where I lived, the mother has since retired while her children have continued in their roles.

You had 2 very good role models in your upbringing and I am delighted to hear that

Nadia Some Trader wrote: »

Tactless person again with a lot of questions!

I did a search on all of your posts and at no point do you use the word "friend". I read that your school years were not great because everyone knew your parents were not really their as parents and yet I want to believe that at some point in time you had at least one friend?

It's fascinating how well you turned out given your destructive upbringing. I think it's easy to assume that anyone in your situation will "go bad" and yet here you are Would you consider yourself an outlier given how you managed to move on?

Which begs the next question. Nature or Nurture? It seems to me your outcome lends more to your natural strength of will.

Keeping in mind everything that you have been through, are you able to guesstimate how kids going through the same process you went through will turn out? Are there certain personality traits that hint at how they process all of it?

Please do feel free to ask as many questions as you like.

In relation to my friends, yes I did have quite a few, there was a group of us there, 8-10 approximately of both genders.

I've turned out fairly ok given my upbringing, what it shows is that after 13 the destruction ceased as I entered a stable environment for the first time in my life, while it didn't stop overnight and took time, it worked.

An outlier where my family are concerned? Yes absolutely, they are of no beefit to me, in fact they never were if I am truthful, the careworkers & residents became my family once I was placed there and as mentioned earlier in the thread, my relationship with some of the care staff today is and has remained very strong when I moved to independent living, I would regularly get calls/texts/facebook messages from them, this is something my family have never done and are unlikely to ever do, they even know where I live and have never once called despite a cousin of mine living in a neighbouring estate.

With regard to nature & nurture, it is in my nature to nurture my own children, I am very strong minded where will power is concerned.

Each child is different no matter what their up bringing, I would be surprised to find 2 children who were raised in the same household turn out with identical lives, for this reason alone I am unable to guesstimate.

On personality traits, that is a very good question but difficult to define in its own right, if you were to visit a care home and meet residents, each of them have their own personality that makes them unique, disruptive behaviour, attitude problems, or just general disobedience are usually a trigger in many cases, I know they certainly were in mine, I used violence towards my teachers and fellow pupils which led to being placed in care, this was traced back to mismanagement of my care in the home setting.

In the majority of cases parents/guardians/carers do not raised children in their care to lead lives of a disruptive nature, which could be likened to a typical street devil house angel type setting.

When I was in care/off the walls, whatever one would choose to call it, my friends didn't interact with me at all, in actual fact my friends were only just that in the school setting when I wasn't disciplined, the friendship only became closer and grew during my teenage years into the college years, after that we all went our separate ways, getting married, starting families, relocating due to work commitments, while we still do retain a friendship today it is a very moderate one, we don't go out for nights on the town, call to others houses, in actual fact my own children have struck up friendships with my friends children on the school grounds which is good, I should have added that when I do the school collections I would chat with them there but due to work this isn't always possible, i'm currently on annual leave for the next 2 weeks so have met with 1 or 2 of them this week which is great, once we got chatting it was like we were never away from each other.

Nadia Some Trader wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. It's an interesting read.

By outlier I meant how you turned out in relation to others that went through the same thing you did.

Would most children that live in state care end up "broken" (for lack of a better word), or are there more success stories than failures.

--

Do you believe your friends at school played a major role in your social development and do you think if you had no friends in school things would have turned out far differently for you?

No problem, you're welcome.

I turned out better than some overall, in the long run rather than the short term. There were a few I lived with who turned out better inside the 5 years overall after leaving care such as better leaving cert results than me, were rated higher by some staff that they were going places in terms of their career, life in general, these same people are now convicts serving very lengthy sentences.

It was the marathon not a sprint approach I used in looking at the outlook for my future.

It was about 50/50 in terms of broken homes to unbroken homes, There were 2 individuals who are good examples of this, not only was I in secure custody with both, less than 4 months later I was joined one of them in the longer term care unit and was joined by the second soon after that, it felt like deja vu in one sense.

Those 2 individuals came from good backgrounds where only the mother was the main carer due to the death of one father and the abdication of the other father, that aside they both lived with their respective mothers and other siblings, they were just very easily led, the end result for those 2 guys, now in their 30's is 1 has become delinquent and the other has returned to live with his mother after recently exiting a long term relationship which produced an child whom he stays in contact with to this day. They had similar upbringings but went through a very different crossroads in life.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Lots of mentions of your fantastic care workers but not much about your social worker(s).

How did you get on with them?

I got on very well with the social workers, the reason I don't mention much of them is because they were rarely ever around unless called upon, on top of that there was a regular change, I had 6 social workers in a 2 year period due transfers, maternity leave, career break, change of career.

They were all female as well.