Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub · 11-01-2018 11:28pm #1

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

Thanks.

JRant · 11-01-2018 11:32pm

Let's Make this thread great again

aloyisious · 11-01-2018 11:42pm

Now here's an unusual take of the Electoral College effect on the overall vote, and how it can have a swing effect way beyond the imgination of the people who came up with it's formulae. Robotizing the factory floor....... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/trump-robots-electoral-college.html

This reported comment by Don is presumbly for a partiular audience, and not the lawmakers who were there to hear it. He think's [rightly] that they'll mention and comment on his remarks spreading his words, so he can comment later on the story via twitter..... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/us/politics/trump-immigration-norway-haiti.html

david75 · 11-01-2018 11:53pm

https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/951582250013024257

looksee · 11-01-2018 11:56pm

Mr. Trump asked why he would want “all these people from ****hole countries,” adding that the United States should admit more people from places like Norway.

so the Norwegians posted a headline that they 'did not want to come to your ****hole country' then spoiled it by pointing out it was a joke...

Hande hoche! · 12-01-2018 12:25am

Flashbacks to the alleged Aids and huts comments.

Doltanian · 12-01-2018 12:36am

He says what people secretly think and this will appeal to tens of millions, there is millions who would never admit but when it comes to the crunch they will back Trump because it is ok to have a dissenting opinion and not be politically correct. If a bunch of liberal snowflakes get offended then that's their problem.

Norway and greater Scandinavia could do with some of those US visas because their own governments seem hellbent in committing national suicide for to appease cultural Marxism and make Sweden and Norway Islamic countries within the next half century. E.g. Ex Isis combatants are given welfare and special rehabilitation courses, whereas in a proper society they would be all lined up and shot at dawn. Trump is not popular because he says the things that are unpalatable but true, the truth hurts.

Water John · 12-01-2018 12:40am

We know Trump was thinking, colour, but didn't actually say it. You really don't need to vocalise it, for him.

Stheno · 12-01-2018 12:47am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5260453/Donald-Trump-cancels-visit-Britain.html
He's allegedly postponed his visit to the UK

david75 · 12-01-2018 12:49am

Doltanian wrote: »

He says what people secretly think and this will appeal to tens of millions, there is millions who would never admit but when it comes to the crunch they will back Trump because it is ok to have a dissenting opinion and not be politically correct. If a bunch of liberal snowflakes get offended then that's their problem.

Norway and greater Scandinavia could do with some of those US visas because their own governments seem hellbent in committing national suicide for to appease cultural Marxism and make Sweden and Norway Islamic countries within the next half century. E.g. Ex Isis combatants are given welfare and special rehabilitation courses, whereas in a proper society they would be all lined up and shot at dawn. Trump is not popular because he says the things that are unpalatable but true, the truth hurts.

An enormous amount of US towns and states that voted for him are complete and utter sh!tholes. Falling apart, dwindling populations, huge crime and drug rates, Zero employment.
He hasn’t actually been in any of them in real time / outside a rally. Of course the pig ignorant idiots from these places who voted for him will agree with him. For now. But there will at some point come a day when They will look around and ask hang on, when is he making America great again?

At this point I don’t believe these are random outbursts from him. It’s all very stage managed and almost timetabled in a race to how low can be actually go? Surely this is the lowest? And no. There’s always a new low.

He’s an embarrassment to all of us as a species not just America.

ancapailldorcha · 12-01-2018 12:59am

Mod: Less of the Twitter dumps and one-liners please. If you post a link, please include some sort of opinion or comment instead of just posting it.

Stheno · 12-01-2018 1:02am

Stheno wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5260453/Donald-Trump-cancels-visit-Britain.html
He's allegedly postponed his visit to the UK

Now confirmed by sky

Apparently he's offended that he won't be treated with the aplomb he deserves

mcmoustache · 12-01-2018 1:59am

Doltanian wrote: »

He says what people secretly think and this will appeal to tens of millions, there is millions who would never admit but when it comes to the crunch they will back Trump because it is ok to have a dissenting opinion and not be politically correct. If a bunch of liberal snowflakes get offended then that's their problem.

Norway and greater Scandinavia could do with some of those US visas because their own governments seem hellbent in committing national suicide for to appease cultural Marxism and make Sweden and Norway Islamic countries within the next half century. E.g. Ex Isis combatants are given welfare and special rehabilitation courses, whereas in a proper society they would be all lined up and shot at dawn. Trump is not popular because he says the things that are unpalatable but true, the truth hurts.

OK. Take a breather for a sec. Breathe in, breathe out, repeat.

Now, see that incel on twitter that you've been following; You know, the one who get you all riled up about Malmo and the no-go areas? Just unfollow him. That should help your blood pressure.

Now the next step is to help you get a grip on reality and to provide you with the tools to assist you in knowing when you're being conned. Ask yourself, are you getting angry about stuff you read about on the internet? For example, are you angry about some town in sweden when you live in some sh*thole with Bally or Borris in its name? Does it bother you that you see darkies on the road from time to time, If yes to either, then you might be getting manipulated and you should seek help.

You see, we're not going to be deporting the darkies anytime soon. Most of them have jobs and contribute to our society. I understand that there is a minority of Irish people who sit on their asses, failing at life and like to blame the darkies for their failures but the real world moves on while failures complain.

Whatever about the foreigners, you need help. The best thing that I can suggest is not to listen to incels or the likes. If that's too much and if you feel that the emotions of incels match yours, there's not much that I can do except let you know that that crowd are mad and you shouldn't make them your bubble.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-01-2018 3:00am

david75 wrote:

An enormous amount of US towns and states that voted for him are complete and utter sh!tholes. Falling apart, dwindling populations, huge crime and drug rates, Zero employment. He hasnâ€™t actually been in any of them in real time / outside a rally. Of course the pig ignorant idiots from these places who voted for him will agree with him. For now. But there will at some point come a day when They will look around and ask hang on, when is he making America great again?

So true, some of those towns look like they're in a third world country. I remember holidaying in Orlando and Disney World which was amazing, but I drove out into the countryside and I saw people living housing that would be condemned here.

But the problem will still be that in the next election they will still only have Trump to tell them that he is going to make their lives better.

vetinari · 12-01-2018 4:34am

You have to admire Trump. He really wants to prove beyond any doubt that he's a complete racist.
He's making it very hard on his supporters to spin things at this point.

qwerty ui op · 12-01-2018 4:45am

Doltanian wrote: »

He says what people secretly think and this will appeal to tens of millions, there is millions who would never admit but when it comes to the crunch they will back Trump because it is ok to have a dissenting opinion and not be politically correct. If a bunch of liberal snowflakes get offended then that's their problem. .

I think the opposite is true, if you have an opinion on something you shouldn't be afraid to say it or openly say you'll support it, otherwise it can't be a very strong held view and nothing to build a political movement on.
"what people secretly think" why keep their thoughts concealed? It's hardly because of what like minded people might think. So why then? whats all the secrecy about?
You've got it the wrong way round, it's because of this weakness on the ground that dog whistles and code are used by any leader that might come along.

RobertKK · 12-01-2018 5:11am

It is disgraceful what Trump said about some countries being ****holes.
I think this is such a powerful piece from Anderson Cooper, which I watched and it is the truth. He talks about Haiti and his experience of the country and its people.
Maybe Trump should visit these places, meet the people and see for himself how hard they have it, instead of playing more golf.
https://twitter.com/ac360/status/951637959983247362

BattleCorp · 12-01-2018 5:44am

I'm not a Trump fan but I won't lie, I'd also call some of those countries 'sh1tholes'.

Peregrinus · 12-01-2018 6:05am

And some of them are sh1tholes at least in part because the US made them so.

But the issue is not whether the countries are sh1tholes, or why. The issue is whether people should be treated more badly, either by law or as a matter of public policy, because them come from a sh1thole country. "You come from Teapotistan, which I consider to be a sh1thole; therefore my administration will treat you worse than we would if you came from somewhere a lot whiter and more Nordic".

Peregrinus · 12-01-2018 6:58am

Stheno wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5260453/Donald-Trump-cancels-visit-Britain.html
He's allegedly postponed his visit to the UK

It turns out this is all Obama's fault.

For which I think all of Britain will be saying, with one voice: Thank you, Mr Obama!

Here in the real world, the decision to move away from "the best located and finest embassy in London" was taken by the Bush administration, not the Obama administration. It was taken primarily on security grounds. It was also the Bush administration which purchase the new embassy site "in an off location" (Nine Elms). It's true that the actual sale of the current embassy building was concluded under Obama, in 2009. Was it sold for "peanuts"? Nobody knows; the sale price was not disclosed.

Trump's claims about the reason for cancelling the visit would be marginally more plausible,but for the fact that he only decided to make the visit last month. Presumably, last month he didn't think the embassy transaction was a "bad deal". And the facts of the transaction haven't changed since then.

Obviously, the President is too gutless to be honest about his real reasons for cancelling his visit. Sad!

ricero · 12-01-2018 7:50am

RobertKK wrote: »

It is disgraceful what Trump said about some countries being ****holes.
I think this is such a powerful piece from Anderson Cooper, which I watched and it is the truth. He talks about Haiti and his experience of the country and its people.
Maybe Trump should visit these places, meet the people and see for himself how hard they have it, instead of playing more golf.
https://twitter.com/ac360/status/951637959983247362

CNN yuck !

Samaris · 12-01-2018 8:58am

Doltanian wrote: »

E.g. Ex Isis combatants are given welfare and special rehabilitation courses, whereas in a proper society they would be all lined up and shot at dawn.

You're aware we don't have capital punishment either, right?

Sorry Ireland, you don't shoot people so you're not a proper society. (Sad!)

Wanderer78 · 12-01-2018 9:00am

Samaris wrote:

Sorry Ireland, you don't shoot people so you're not a proper country. Sad!

It's actually not sad, but in fact disturbing that some people think like this.

Samaris · 12-01-2018 9:24am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's actually not sad, but in fact disturbing that some people think like this.

It is a little weird that people take up such a non-Irish view from Ireland. We've not had capital punishment in a pretty long time and there is no national appetite to bringing it back (not that individuals can't hang their national identity by the neck if they like). American media is kinda pervasive though. But that people will parrot stuff about firing squads being a prerequisite to being considered a "proper society" is a tad nutty. Mind you, if you're already working off the Scandorabia notion as an argument for said firing squads than I can only suggest actually going to Scandinavia. There are problems in some cities, but banging on about Scandinavia countries becoming Islamic in the next 50 years (or at all tbh) is sheer hysteria.

The migration wave wasn't handled well, it was bigger than predicted and hit serious social and political roadblocks in Europe. But there are arguments to make that aren't waving one's arms about in panic and wailing about the loss of entire countries to the Forces of Islam. Bollocks, like.

Manic Moran · 12-01-2018 9:35am

Peregrinus wrote: »

And some of them are sh1tholes at least in part because the US made them so.

But the issue is not whether the countries are sh1tholes, or why. The issue is whether people should be treated more badly, either by law or as a matter of public policy, because them come from a sh1thole country. "You come from Teapotistan, which I consider to be a sh1thole; therefore my administration will treat you worse than we would if you came from somewhere a lot whiter and more Nordic".

People from Nordic countries are also more likely to be educated, and better able to contribute to the US than someone from Haiti. I suspect that if someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science of the University of Port-au-Prince applied for a visa in the US, he's be treated by INS about the same as someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science from University Oslo or UCD. The idea of being picky about who to let in based on their background is hardly unique to the US.

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

Peregrinus · 12-01-2018 9:37am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's actually not sad, but in fact disturbing that some people think like this.

I doubt there is much thinking involved, TBH.

Pelvis · 12-01-2018 10:16am

Manic Moran wrote: »

People from Nordic countries are also more likely to be educated, and better able to contribute to the US than someone from Haiti. I suspect that if someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science of the University of Port-au-Prince applied for a visa in the US, he's be treated by INS about the same as someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science from University Oslo or UCD. The idea of being picky about who to let in based on their background is hardly unique to the US.

Don't think anyone disagrees with that, except Donald Trump.

Patser · 12-01-2018 10:17am

I'm just loving watching Peter Hoekstra being torn apart by Dutch journalists.

Bit of background, he's a Dutch born Republican Congressman and Trump's newly selected Ambassador to Holland. Only problem is, back in 2015 while speaking in an official capacity (and in a way Trump would be do proud of) said The Netherlands had no go areas for local people, where cars and even politicians were set on fire due to huge numbers of Islamic immigrants.

So this year he's appointed Ambassador, a local journalist brings up these comments and is told thats 'fake news' I never said that, only for journalist to take out phone and show him the clip of him saying it.

And yesterday at his official reception things got even better as journalist after journalist kept asking him the same question. He's just so awkward it's brilliant.

Link below has video from yesterday but also further down a clip from the original journalist catching him out a month ago.

http://www.ibtimes.com/watch-pete-hoekstra-ambassador-netherlands-dumbfounded-dutch-journalists-questions-2640829

Tell me how · 12-01-2018 10:18am

Manic Moran wrote:

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

There are countries which are more developed than others and countries who's people are generally more highly educated. Thats a fact. It's relevant when promoting industry abroad and negotiating trade deals. The President of America should be aware of the difference between being aware of this and referring to a place as a sh*thole when discussing refugees.

Why did so many Irish go to America and wish they were back home again? Where they had no opportunity or education? Because it was home.

This isn't surprising out of Donald. In fact, it's good. When some people get annoyed about how unpresidential he is some others say it's their problem for misinterpreting something.

There's no room for misinterpretation here and while his fans will make excuses. Most reasonable people, some of whom may have voted for him, will start to listen to their conscience.

PopePalpatine · 12-01-2018 10:28am

vetinari wrote: »

You have to admire Trump. He really wants to prove beyond any doubt that he's a complete racist.
He's making it very hard on his supporters to spin things at this point.

Meh, they'll just let their masks slip instead. Trump could rape someone on live TV and they'd fawn over how "alpha AF" he is.

Leroy42 · 12-01-2018 10:40am

Manic Moran wrote: »

People from Nordic countries are also more likely to be educated, and better able to contribute to the US than someone from Haiti. I suspect that if someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science of the University of Port-au-Prince applied for a visa in the US, he's be treated by INS about the same as someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science from University Oslo or UCD. The idea of being picky about who to let in based on their background is hardly unique to the US.

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

But that is not what Trump thinks. He question why they were taking people in from Haiti etc on the basis that the country is a sh1thole, nothing to do with the level of degree the person has.

It is the very definition of racism. Not potential, not possible, 100% racism. Haiti people are trouble, Nordic people are great (I do wonder has he heard of Anders Brevic!)

So as was already pointed out, it is not that he is saying the country is a sh1thole, it is that he is using that as the basis for excluding the people from that country for applying for visas.

demfad · 12-01-2018 10:47am

Doltanian wrote: »

He says what people secretly think and this will appeal to tens of millions, there is millions who would never admit but when it comes to the crunch they will back Trump because it is ok to have a dissenting opinion and not be politically correct. If a bunch of liberal snowflakes get offended then that's their problem.

Norway and greater Scandinavia could do with some of those US visas because their own governments seem hellbent in committing national suicide for to appease cultural Marxism and make Sweden and Norway Islamic countries within the next half century. E.g. Ex Isis combatants are given welfare and special rehabilitation courses, whereas in a proper society they would be all lined up and shot at dawn. Trump is not popular because he says the things that are unpalatable but true, the truth hurts.

People who might get offended would include people of colour and non-whites generally, both US citizens emigrants and people actually living in those countries.
Just because people are thinking something doesn't make it reasonable and surely a US president should govern with reason.
By their nature emigrants come from poorer States with less opportunities to richer States with more opportunities. The wealth or otherwise of States is not a judgement on its people.
A vast amount of Irish people came to the US during and just after the famine. By any standards at the time Ireland was one of the most destitute countries on the planet, or as you and Trump might say ' a mega ****hole'.
They seemed to have done alright since. Some of them have even risen to high positions of power to both oppose and enable the racist Trump.
Because we know the real coded message here: It's not about the country these people are from, its about the colour of their skin.
Calling people liberal snowflakes for pointing this out is hardly going to deter them is it? Do better.

Oafley Jones · 12-01-2018 11:01am

Manic Moran wrote: »

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

What's the GDP of Haiti vs US. The level of extreme poverty and social breakdown in the some parts of the States is absolutely shocking and to me the bigger indictment. And they still have no qualms about spending over 600 billion dollars a year on the DoD, more than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United Kingdom, India, France and Japan combined.

A recent UN investigation found:

US healthcare expenditures per capita are double the OECD average and much higher than in all other countries. But there are many fewer doctors and hospital beds per person than the OECD average.

US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world.

Americans can expect to live shorter and sicker lives, compared to people living in any other rich democracy, and the “health gap” between the US and its peer countries continues to grow.

US inequality levels are far higher than those in most European countries
Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA. It has been estimated that 12 million Americans live with a neglected parasitic infection. A 2017 report documents the prevalence of hookworm in Lowndes County, Alabama.

America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, ahead of Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Cuba, Thailand and the Russian Federation. Its rate is nearly five times the OECD average.

The youth poverty rate in the United States is the highest across the OECD with one quarter of youth living in poverty compared to less than 14% across the OECD.

The Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks the most well-off countries in terms of labor markets, poverty, safety net, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. The US comes in last of the top 10 most well-off countries, and 18th amongst the top 21.

In the OECD the US ranks 35th out of 37 in terms of poverty and inequality.
According to the World Income Inequality Database, the US has the highest Gini rate (measuring inequality) of all Western Countries

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 11:22am

Patser wrote: »

http://www.ibtimes.com/watch-pete-hoekstra-ambassador-netherlands-dumbfounded-dutch-journalists-questions-2640829

Brilliant. They're used to US press conferences in which by and large fellow journalists won't follow up on another's and they can just ignore anything they don't want to answer. Hoekstra is a nut job, in the same conversation he called it fake news he then goes on to insist he never used the words fake news. The interviewer was dumbfounded!

Leroy42 · 12-01-2018 11:34am

I see Trump has cancelled his trip to the UK, coming up with some lame excuse that he didn't like the sale of an Embassy. I mean, one of the US closest allies, with a special relationship, invites him and he turns it down because he thinks they (the US) did a bad property deal!

Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact that he would face protests when he got there.

And the right have the gaul to call the left snowflakes!

The ultimate snowflake is currently POTUS, voted for by all those people that apparently hate snowflakes.

one armed dwarf · 12-01-2018 11:38am

Reading the Woolf book one has to wonder if some of it are his aides recommending he doesn't attend rather than Trump himself.

Specifically in the book it says he really wanted to attend the Correspondent's Dinner but Bannon, Kushner etc persuaded him not to.

Probably giving him too much credit tbh.

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 11:39am

I either read or heard it over the course of the morning, he's blaming it on Obama in his tweet when in actuality the move was started during the Bush administration.

Leroy42 · 12-01-2018 12:08pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

I either read or heard it over the course of the morning, he's blaming it on Obama in his tweet when in actuality the move was started during the Bush administration.

It a nonsense regardless of who did it.

The US, under whatever POTUS, made the decision. Is Trump really trying to claim that he is going to snub their biggest ally on the basis that he is annoyed about a property deal?

So future trade agreements, mutual defence, mutual intelligence etc etc are nothing compared to a decision to sell a building.

robinph · 12-01-2018 12:12pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

I see Trump has cancelled his trip to the UK, coming up with some lame excuse that he didn't like the sale of an Embassy. I mean, one of the US closest allies, with a special relationship, invites him and he turns it down because he thinks they (the US) did a bad property deal!

Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact that he would face protests when he got there.

And the right have the gaul to call the left snowflakes!

The ultimate snowflake is currently POTUS, voted for by all those people that apparently hate snowflakes.

The US never owned the embassy in London, they rented it from the Duke of Westminster apparently.

http://londinoupolis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/why-americans-dont-own-their-london.html

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 12:14pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

It a nonsense regardless of who did it.

Oh I know that, but it's yet another example in which he throws out incorrect facts.

Professor Moriarty · 12-01-2018 12:36pm

Gosh, it's lovely, fresh and clean in here.

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 12:52pm

Jeb Bush and a couple of others Republicans taking a pop at Trump on twitter as a result. Problem is that the point at which the line is drawn against him will constantly be moved as he becomes more unhinged.

Wanderer78 · 12-01-2018 12:55pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Jeb Bush and a couple of others Republicans taking a pop at Trump on twitter as a result. Problem is that the point at which the line is drawn against him will constantly be moved as he becomes more unhinged.

i personally think, it will in fact be the republican party that will move this guy along, eventually

Professor Moriarty · 12-01-2018 12:55pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Jeb Bush and a couple of others Republican senators taking a pop at Trump on twitter as a result. Problem is that the point at which the line is drawn against him will constantly be moved as he becomes more unhinged.

Slowly but surely The Donald's idiocy and flamboyant expression of that idiocy will deepen the split in the GOP between those who have some semblance of principle and those who are content with a far right agenda that maintains their grip on power.

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 12:57pm

And had meant to add this to my last post, on the subject of Norway and Trump brown nosing them, during his meeting with the Norwegian PM Trump talked about how great their defence relationship is with them after the US delivered F-52 Fighter Jets to Norway.

The problem? Such a jet doesn't exist unless you play Call of Duty

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2018/01/11/trump-lauded-delivery-of-f-52s-to-norway-the-planes-only-exist-in-call-of-duty/?utm_term=.b2f4e1fe650c

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42651544

Slip of the tongue most likely, but amusing none the less.

ThisRegard · 12-01-2018 1:18pm

He made a surprise visit!!

https://twitter.com/PAImages/status/951786795351592960

There's just no respect for the man. They even got the joke in about the length he wears his ties.

pixelburp · 12-01-2018 1:23pm

There's a certain twisted logic about the whole "He says what people secretly think..." argument: after all, it's completely and utterly impossible to prove what people en masse privately think to themselves (at the moment!), so technically the statement is neither true nor false.

Yet arguably all it DOES reveal is the position you yourself to hold true, not to mention the somewhat arrogant extrapolation that this line of thinking is somehow common or universal, regardless of any evidence. It can't be that you're in the minority, lots of other folks simply MUST be thinking the same as yourself, but can't or won't speak up. I guess it's that whole notion of the 'Silent Majority'. Equally, it also rolls up a little siege / victim mentality to make the cause even more just, that you're secretly harbouring truthful thoughts against some ambiguous, oppressive regime. In this case those dreadful 'liberals'.

I'll be honest, Haiti is far down the list of countries I'd ever want to visit, on business or pleasure, and I daresay some people would take the reductionist route and agree that the country is a 'sh*thole'; but I recognise it's a country whose problems are both self-made and originate from outside influences.

It's not a sh*hole - it's a tragedy of civilisation.

Tell me how · 12-01-2018 1:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

There's a certain twisted logic about the whole "He says what people secretly think..." argument: after all, it's completely and utterly impossible to prove what people en masse privately think to themselves (at the moment!), so technically the statement is neither true nor false.

Yet arguably all it DOES reveal is the position you yourself to hold true, not to mention the somewhat arrogant extrapolation that this line of thinking is somehow common or universal, regardless of any evidence. It can't be that you're in the minority, lots of other folks simply MUST be thinking the same as yourself, but can't or won't speak up. I guess it's that whole notion of the 'Silent Majority'. Equally, it also rolls up a little siege / victim mentality to make the cause even more just, that you're secretly harbouring truthful thoughts against some ambiguous, oppressive regime. In this case those dreadful 'liberals'.

It is possible that when he is gone most, including the majority of the GOP will lambaste him from a height. The biggest tragedy in this is not just that such a man has become president of America but that such a man was voted to become president.

Forget about the small margin of the popular vote, a huge number of people looked at that man and his behaviour and thought that he would be a good president.

This is compounded by the absence in any decent unified group of a positive alternative from within the Democrats which is now leading to suggestions of Oprah being a viable candidate. This is so absurd it should make you cry if you were American. All the late night show hosts and effective show hosts on popular news shows should stop decrying how bad he is and start to question why he is there and how to avoid this happening again.

Trump is the symbol, the nucleus of how bad politics in America is but the problem is much much bigger.

Odhinn · 12-01-2018 2:06pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

People from Nordic countries are also more likely to be educated, and better able to contribute to the US than someone from Haiti. I suspect that if someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science of the University of Port-au-Prince applied for a visa in the US, he's be treated by INS about the same as someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science from University Oslo or UCD. The idea of being picky about who to let in based on their background is hardly unique to the US.

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

For the majority of the history of the US, people left their countries - which at the time were "shitholes" - to go there, hence waves of immigration from certain states at certain times. It's "shitholes" that made America.

david75 · 12-01-2018 2:28pm

I’ve been to Arkansas and a number of Midwest US states and towns within and can confidently say they’re sh!tholes. I think this comment might haunt him, even though he’s now denying he said it.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-01-2018 2:36pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that is not what Trump thinks. He question why they were taking people in from Haiti etc on the basis that the country is a sh1thole, nothing to do with the level of degree the person has.

It is the very definition of racism. Not potential, not possible, 100% racism. Haiti people are trouble, Nordic people are great (I do wonder has he heard of Anders Brevic!)

So as was already pointed out, it is not that he is saying the country is a sh1thole, it is that he is using that as the basis for excluding the people from that country for applying for visas.

Sadly that is the way many Americans think. They have been sold the American Dream for so long, they believe it themselves.
In America you can make it from washing dishes to millionaire if you just put the effort in.
That means if you find yourself in a bad situation, it's your own fault, because you're stupid, lazy, degenrate or from a bad ethnic background with faulty genes.
The logical conclusion is that it is pointless to help such a person, because the time and effort invested in that person will never be repaid.
It is a society where the pace is dictated by the strongest and fastest and the rest get left behind.
Ironically the very people who lap this up and pump their fists in the air in support of Trump are the very people who got left behind in the first place. And as Trump is taking away their healthcare and is giving the top 1% a massive tax cut, they will continue to scream and shout for him.
Imagine someone is cutting your arm off and as you scream in pain, he is pointing towards a Mexican guy and is blaming him. And you believe him.

edit:
I'm sure Ireland was regarded as a sh*thole almost on par with Haiti today at the height of immigration from there to the US.
According to the Trump theory, the Irish should never have amounted to anything because they were uneducated oiks from a country where shepherd was the most desirable job at the time.

2nd edit:
This is not to diss Ireland. No one in their right mind would argue that Ireland is on par with Haiti.
I'm merely pointing out that it's never right to wholesale discriminate against people because the country they come from is disadvantaged.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

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