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13-06-2019, 08:47   #1
Cork_exile
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Yeah, it's really the claims causing insurance spikes...

https://www.independent.ie/business/...-38215319.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Weston
Insurance companies have enjoyed a profits surge from covering homes, drivers and businesses.

Profits have jumped by a staggering 1,300pc, despite the country being gripped by an insurance crisis.

New figures from the industry show 17 general insurers in this market made combined operating profits of €227m in 2017, the latest date for overall data on the sector.

These profits were up from €16m in 2016, according to Insurance Ireland - equal to a rise of 1,318pc.

Motor cover proved hugely profitable in 2017.

The 17 domestic non-life insurers made combined profits of €125m from private and commercial motorists.

So for years we have been hearing that the massive increase in costs is ALL down to the cost of claims.

And a very strong point made here, not followed through on other than a soundbite from the Insurance sector

Quote:
Pressure group Alliance Ireland questioned how much money insurers are repatriating to their parent companies.

Peter Boland of the Alliance said: "This figure has distorted performance in the past."

He said the Central Bank forced insurers to bump up their reserves in 2015. Insurers will now find they have over-reserved and will be able to boost their profits by writing these back.
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13-06-2019, 09:13   #2
Berties_Horse
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The insurance sector is essentially a cartel driving up prices in unison. Claims are a convenient smokescreen.

Last edited by Berties_Horse; 13-06-2019 at 09:17.
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13-06-2019, 09:20   #3
Hedgelayer
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Originally Posted by Berties_Horse View Post
The insurance sector is essentally a cartel driving up prices in unison. Claims are a convenient smokescreen.
That's for sure, there's no balance of morals in the insurance industry.

There was a time when you took out insurance and the onus was on the insurance company to look after their customers....

Now the insurance companies needs the customers to look after the insurance company.

Masterfully they turned their responsibilities the full circle and made the customers pay for their selfish agendas.

Almost like a mass hypnosis...
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13-06-2019, 10:15   #4
V8 Interceptor
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I remember a few people on here defending insurance companies as if their lives depended on it. They could do no wrong.
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13-06-2019, 10:27   #5
Hedgelayer
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I remember a few people on here defending insurance companies as if their lives depended on it. They could do no wrong.
That's because More than likely they work in the industry and their livelihood depends on it.
They're probably going to staff meetings patting each other on the back, knowing full well they're fleecing us all, building up their wages and having more benefits.

And dare anyone suggest in the meetings that this is wrong and they'll be public enemy in office and with the management.

I worked in the corporate world in the early 00's they were absolutely ruthless back then.
It takes a certain mindset to be an absolute vvanker.

I sometimes watch Jordan Peterson and others lecturing about narcissism and borderline personality disorder.
And you'll witness that in big cooperation and boardroom meetings.

If you told people of that ilk they've narcissistic undertones, they'll Google narcissism and actually wear it like a badge of honour.

These people are not like normal people, they're wired totally different.

It goes very deep
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13-06-2019, 10:48   #6
steamsey
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A lot of the key players in the insurance industry in this country are essentially in a boys' club. They all know each other - brothers, cousins, uncles - it's massively incestuous.

They watch the market to see what it can bear. When they feel the market can take it, they start rolling out their claims stories and jack up their premiums. There is no direct link between higher premiums and higher claims - the link actually is between higher premiums and the market's ability to pay same.

We desperately need competition independent of the current boys' club.

They are fleecing us - there is no doubt about it. It's a rotten, rotten industry.

What really irks me is that we are required by law to have motor insurance but are then thrown to the wolves to get a policy. I'd much prefer government based not for profit insurance for mandatory insurance types.
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13-06-2019, 10:54   #7
Del2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berties_Horse View Post
The insurance sector is essentially a cartel driving up prices in unison. Claims are a convenient smokescreen.
You think that they would do all this for €13m each? It also does not mention if its before or after tax. That's tiny profits for such large companies.


Where is the article on the profits our legal system is making from the claims culture? Don't forget where the judges who make the awards are selected from.
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13-06-2019, 11:00   #8
Hobosan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamsey View Post
A lot of the key players in the insurance industry in this country are essentially in a boys' club. They all know each other - brothers, cousins, uncles - it's massively incestuous.

They watch the market to see what it can bear. When they feel the market can take it, they start rolling out their claims stories and jack up their premiums. There is no direct link between higher premiums and higher claims - the link actually is between higher premiums and the market's ability to pay same.

We desperately need competition independent of the current boys' club.

They are fleecing us - there is no doubt about it. It's a rotten, rotten industry.

What really irks me is that we are required by law to have motor insurance but are then thrown to the wolves to get a policy. I'd much prefer government based not for profit insurance for mandatory insurance types.
People could try pooling their money together and form their own insurance group, without paying any premium. Unfortunately, the public are in such dire straits, that they'll sooner trust fleecers like this with their money than their own neighbours.

A fairly sad indictment of the state of the country that such a simple and massively cost effective solution like that is beyond us.
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13-06-2019, 11:46   #9
Henry Ford III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Interceptor View Post
I remember a few people on here defending insurance companies as if their lives depended on it. They could do no wrong.
Insurance co's aren't saints. They can and do make mistakes. They are there however to provide a product/service and with a view to making profits by doing so.

There's then the usual semi informed hysterical reaction to such an announcement.

Here's the thing though - if such bumper profits were sustainable we'd be awash with new profit hungry ventures looking for a slice of this hugely attractive market.

We're not though - so the entire argument falls over.

p.s. I paid considerably less for motor at the last renewal.
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13-06-2019, 11:49   #10
cruizer101
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This might be of interest here

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File Type: jpg insurance.jpg (125.9 KB, 584 views)
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13-06-2019, 11:55   #11
Thoie
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A year or so ago the Insurance Federation had an ad out saying something along the lines of "false claims add €50 to your policy - they're taking the money out of your pocket". That didn't explain why my motor policy renewal had gone up over €300 that year with no claims, no incidents, no change in circumstances.

I shopped around and got a far more reasonable price, but I still can't see any justification for such a large jump other than "chancing their arm".
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13-06-2019, 13:39   #12
Eggs For Dinner
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Analyse the figures. 17 insurers made 16m profit in 2016, that's 941k each. Do you know how precarious that is, given the amount of gross premiums generated? Obviously, some made more than others but that means some lost money. Losing money means players leave the market and prices rise

Forget sensationist headlines about % increases, profit was only an average of 13m each in 2017 with 84m of the total coming from property insurance, not the problem areas of liability and motor injuries. The article also states that a big chunk of profit came from investment, which is fine, but you can't base your business on investment covering losses made in claims.

Insurance is too damned high in Ireland, but thinking that Insurers have targeted Ireland to ride it's customers for excessive profit is ignoring the facts. Clams and the cost of claims are unsustainable
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13-06-2019, 13:42   #13
Cork_exile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggs For Dinner View Post
Analyse the figures. 17 insurers made 16m profit in 2016, that's 941k each. Do you know how precarious that is, given the amount of gross premiums generated? Obviously, some made more than others but that means some lost money. Losing money means players leave the market and prices rise

Forget sensationist headlines about % increases, profit was only an average of 13m each in 2017 with 84m of the total coming from property insurance, not the problem areas of liability and motor injuries. The article also states that a big chunk of profit came from investment, which is fine, but you can't base your business on investment covering losses made in claims.

Insurance is too damned high in Ireland, but thinking that Insurers have targeted Ireland to ride it's customers for excessive profit is ignoring the facts. Clams and the cost of claims are unsustainable
That was after the regulator instructed them to increase their claims reserve.
So they were able to drastically increase their reserve and STILL post a profit. Do you see how little the claims hurt them, if they were able to do that?

The reason that their reserves were so low, in the first place, is that they could send all their money back to the parent companies.
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13-06-2019, 15:02   #14
Fanny Wank
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Eggs For Dinner - your attempts to bring rational conversation to a "debate" fuelled by sensationalism is admirable. However you are wasting your time

People who don't know how an insurance company is run want to spout nonsense & claim "my car insurance would be 100 quid a year if it wasn't for those nasty companies ripping me off". You're wasting your time - people don't want sensible, rational debate based on facts

One last comment (despite promising I'd never get sucked into this again) - I keep hearing profits are "excessive". Define excessive? Most insurers probably target 5-6% margin on premiums. Profits/losses are very volatile and cyclical. They won't make 5-6% every year. Hundreds of millions of losses were racked up in the years pre 2016.
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13-06-2019, 15:29   #15
Eggs For Dinner
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I fully understand everyone's frustration with insurance. Premiums are TOO DAMNED HIGH. I just believe the reason behind it is not excessive profit
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