How would it work in real life.

mariaalice · 17-10-2019 9:26am #1

We all can't continue to consume in the same way as we have in a planet with finite resources.

So how would our new life look, a life where we consume less ( consume less of what? ) do art ( even for those who do not have the talent or interest in art ) promote communities ( how exactly? and what does that mean? )

Andrewf20 · 17-10-2019 10:08am

The only way I see us consuming less is to make society poorer. We are too wealthy. Why repair old jeans when you can afford new ones? Who here has a puncture repair kit for a bike anymore? Too much hassle, just buy a new tyre. People driving when they could walk or cycle is very prevalent. We waste so much food as well. We are so used to a convenient way of life that it would be hard to give it up.

Growing you own food would certainly help the planet. Also, if we spent more time fixing things it would be better rather than buying a replacement. It's something I try and do myself. One of the problems is that technical diy skills are slowly getting eroded as it's less hassle for people to fix things themselves and to just get an expert in to do it. This is compounded by the fact that people are leading busier lives. You hardly see anybody out working on cars in the driveway anymore doing oil changes / brake pad replacement etc.

My mums garden strimmer was acting up before (intermittently cutting out). She brought it to a garden shop who recommended just binning it and buy a new one, maybe the motor was broken. I took a look and found that the live wire was cut through the insulation. A 15 minute repair job had it sorted and it's still working to this day.

Purgative · 17-10-2019 10:15am

I'd agree with AnfrewF. I bought some veg thing the other day in Lidl - it was grown in Vietnam, processed in south Africa and the flown to me all for 79c. Madness.

When we first moved back here we decided to grow potatoes. Digging them is back breaking. It took me an hour to fill a big bag. Lovely spuds but ....

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 10:16am

Andrewf20 wrote: »

My mums garden strimmer was acting up before (intermittently cutting out). She brought it to a garden shop who recommended just binning it and buy a new one, maybe the motor was broken. I took a look and found that the live wire was cut through the insulation. A 15 minute repair job had it sorted and it's still working to this day.

Inspiring!

Reducing consumption dramatically would be a catastrophe for capitalism and in turn cause huge disruption worldwide. Huge unemployment and social unrest, a collapse in the social welfare system, the banking system. The list goes on.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 10:23am

MrAbyss · 17-10-2019 10:25am

mariaalice wrote: »

We all can't continue to consume in the same way as we have in a planet with finite resources.

So how would our new life look, a life where we consume less ( consume less of what? ) do art ( even for those who do not have the talent or interest in art ) promote communities ( how exactly? and what does that mean? )

Shut down the civil service. That's the biggest waste of resources - and Extinction Rebellion protestors - on the planet.

ToddyDoody · 17-10-2019 10:27am

Bob Harris wrote: »

Inspiring!

Reducing consumption dramatically would be a catastrophe for capitalism and in turn cause huge disruption worldwide. Huge unemployment and social unrest, a collapse in the social welfare system, the banking system. The list goes on.

Because he wanted to fix a strimmer?

Capitalism works for me. I dont work for capitalism.

completedit · 17-10-2019 10:28am

It’s too hard to change, our society is geared to make people think that success is equaled to having stuff. Having stuff gives people a tangible goal that provides meaning. If we didn’t have the allure of stuff and with relgion’s waning importance, what is left to strive for?

Irish Guitarist · 17-10-2019 10:32am

With all the things being taxed and banned it baffles me that you can still buy cheap AA and AAA single use batteries. You could buy a packet of 16 batteries or something for a couple of euro but they last no length. They're some of the most wasteful products around. You don't see the government doing ad campaigns encouraging people to buy a battery charger and some rechargeable batteries though.

Another thing that pisses me off is all the different type of lithium-ion phone and camera batteries. I've bought loads of digital cameras over the years and every one requires buying a new type of battery. Many of them use the same voltage batteries and I'm sure if they were standardised and made the same shape they'd work in different camera. It isn't enough to buy a new camera from Sony though, they want another €40 or €50 for a battery too and they don't want you using it in a Canon or Nikon, nor do Canon or Nikon want you using their batteries in a Sony camera.

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 10:32am

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Because he wanted to fix a strimmer?

Capitalism works for me. I dont work for capitalism.

If you want to reduce consumption in a meaningful way it will cause society to collapse as we know it. Then it will rebuild itself and return to it's capitalist ways.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 10:35am

completedit wrote: »

It’s too hard to change, our society is geared to make people think that success is equaled to having stuff. Having stuff gives people a tangible goal that provides meaning. If we didn’t have the allure of stuff and with relgion’s waning importance, what is left to strive for?

We all want to live. And in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having attained our aim and continuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim is a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he pains freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling.

-- Yamamoto Tsunetomo, "Hagakure"

Mr. Incognito · 17-10-2019 10:38am

It works in practice because the small percentage of the worlds's wealthy are serviced by the vast majority of low wage workers who create all these products at basically slave labour.

Its unsustainable.

Any time there is vast inequality there is war. It's inevitable. Enjoy it while it lasts.

blinding · 17-10-2019 10:54am

Why don’t we just take all the wealth off the Super Wealthy and have a Party ?

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:04am

Bob Harris wrote: »

Inspiring!

Reducing consumption dramatically would be a catastrophe for capitalism and in turn cause huge disruption worldwide. Huge unemployment and social unrest, a collapse in the social welfare system, the banking system. The list goes on.

Offset by the elephant in the room for many; having fewer people, having fewer children. The single biggest impact you will have on the environment isn't buying a new battery car(ever four effin years. :rolleyes:) or growing your own spuds, the biggest impact is having a kid. Lowering the world's population by half would make a massive difference to the environment and the waste we produce.

The problem is along with the calls for saving the planet, we're also being told usually by the same people we must increase the birthrate. Even here in Ireland, a country with the highest birthrate in the EU and easily repacing ourselves we have government types telling us we need more people and they will even import said people from third world crapholes to fill this apparent need.

It's all bollocks of course. More people is just to feed the current over consumption economic model. More people to make the crap cheaply and more people to buy the crap. And a tiny few get rich from it.

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 11:10am

Purgative wrote: »

I'd agree with AnfrewF. I bought some veg thing the other day in Lidl - it was grown in Vietnam, processed in south Africa and the flown to me all for 79c. Madness.

When we first moved back here we decided to grow potatoes. Digging them is back breaking. It took me an hour to fill a big bag. Lovely spuds but ....

Yes, but now they give you biodegradable plastic bags to put it in.
Cheap, healthy and good for the environment. Win win win!

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:12am

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

With all the things being taxed and banned it baffles me that you can still buy cheap AA and AAA single use batteries. You could buy a packet of 16 batteries or something for a couple of euro but they last no length. They're some of the most wasteful products around. You don't see the government doing ad campaigns encouraging people to buy a battery charger and some rechargeable batteries though.

Another thing that pisses me off is all the different type of lithium-ion phone and camera batteries. I've bought loads of digital cameras over the years and every one requires buying a new type of battery. Many of them use the same voltage batteries and I'm sure if they were standardised and made the same shape they'd work in different camera. It isn't enough to buy a new camera from Sony though, they want another €40 or €50 for a battery too and they don't want you using it in a Canon or Nikon, nor do Canon or Nikon want you using their batteries in a Sony camera.

+1. In the early days of digital cameras many took either AA disposables, or Lion rechargables in the same AA format. But that was clearly eating into profits, so that had to go to be replaced by different form factor batteries. It also made it less convenient because if your Lion battery went flat you could throw in a couple of AA's to keep it going.

Look at inkjet printers. Among some of the entry level models, it is cheaper to dump the whole thing in the bin after the inks run out because the replacement ink cartridges are the same price or more expenisive than buying a new printer.

The "right to repair" should be pushed for and in some quarters it is. "Lifetime" devices which are anything but does nothing for our carbon footprint. Companies changing parts every few months is designed to make them unrepairable. Cars are a good example of this. They are purposely designed to run well for a period of time, backed up by dealer only warranties for when they don't and then to be uneconomical to repair. This is madness, especially when we have had the tech since at least the 90's to make cars that could last far far longer and be easier to repair. Sticking batteries or fuel cells into them will do nothing for this wasteful product cycle. It may even make things worse as marketing will convince people they need the latest Car 2.1 and they could become more like IT devices to be replaced entirely every few years.

Badly Drunk Boy · 17-10-2019 11:12am

Andrewf20 wrote: »

My mums garden strimmer was acting up before (intermittently cutting out). She brought it to a garden shop who recommended just binning it and buy a new one, maybe the motor was broken. I took a look and found that the live wire was cut through the insulation. A 15 minute repair job had it sorted and it's still working to this day.

The problem is that everything is made to fail after a certain (short) amount of time, and when the obsolescence is in-built, people accept that and scramble to get the next upgrade, whether it's a phone or a telly or whatever.

I'm guilty of this to a certain degree but being a bit of a hoarder, I usually don't dump stuff if I feel it can be salvaged. Last week I bought a few puncture repair kits so this weekend, I'll be patching up the tubes that I just replaced rather than repaired.

Purgative wrote: »

When we first moved back here we decided to grow potatoes. Digging them is back breaking. It took me an hour to fill a big bag. Lovely spuds but ....

Ah, but the satisfaction of knowing that your hard work got them onto the plate would have made them even tastier!

LirW · 17-10-2019 11:15am

It is engrained in all of us, we are comfortable and our values shifted accordingly, damaging important factors to live a more sustainable life.
Trades are slowly recovering from their bad reputation as only perspective of simpletons and school leavers.
We were taught and teach our kids that it is all about monetary and academical success, otherwise you'll stay behind forever not taking into account their natural talents and abilities that might be useful to live more sustainably.

And the worst thing is we all can't bring ourselves to telling our kids that from here on it is going to get tougher socially and everything we told them is not going to apply in the near future anymore.
We as society have no real interest in changing because it would be hard work.
But when it finally comes down to it I have my doubts that all the accountants, HR people and business graduates are going to change the world when our survival comes down to work together and scale down in everything we used to love.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 11:18am

Wibbs wrote: »

...Cars are a good example of this. They are purposely designed to run well for a period of time, backed up by dealer only warranties for when they don't and then to be uneconomical to repair. This is madness, especially when we have had the tech since at least the 90's to make cars that could last far far longer and be easier to repair. Sticking batteries or fuel cells into them will do nothing for this wasteful product cycle. It may even make things worse as marketing will convince people they need the latest Car 2.1 and they could become more like IT devices to be replaced entirely every few years.

Ever wonder why big trucks run for millions of miles with very little trouble, and those huge Caterpillar machines typically serve for decades, with Cat supporting a "rip out/repair/refurbish" service? It's because commercial operators don't put up with the sort of bollocks outlined in your rather decent post.

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 11:20am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It works in practice because the small percentage of the worlds's wealthy are serviced by the vast majority of low wage workers who create all these products at basically slave labour.

Its unsustainable.

Any time there is vast inequality there is war. It's inevitable. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I've read a few times that if all of the world's wealth was equally distributed it would take only a couple of generations to find it's way back into the hands it was taken from.

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:23am

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

The problem is that everything is made to fail after a certain (short) amount of time, and when the obsolescence is in-built, people accept that and scramble to get the next upgrade, whether it's a phone or a telly or whatever.

I noticed that with fridges of all things. The one I grew up with in the family home lasted my childhood and well into early adulthood. The folks then bought a new one, which lasted ten years, the next made it to six. The one I have is about six years old, but is creaking already. Washing machines have had a similar trajectory. Last a few years and crap out with an error code and the part required is either no longer available, or costs nearly as much as a new machine(or more when you put "labour" into fitting it. A few bolts and away you go for the most part). How's that work then? It's bollocks.

Though I have the tumble drier my folks bought in 1975 and it still works. Needed a few fuses and belts down the years and the timer is a bit fecked, but it works. I would bet the farm that if I bought a new one there's no way in hell it would last 40 years. Now I can somewhat understand IT stuff like phones, computers and even tellies as they've evolved going obsolete, but keeping food cool and washing and drying clothes? Utter bollocks.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 11:28am

Wibbs wrote: »

...Now I can somewhat understand IT stuff like phones, computers and even tellies as they've evolved going obsolete, but keeping food cool and washing and drying clothes? Utter bollocks.

There is definitely a deliberate, concerted effort to make such devices unrepairable and, in furtherance, unupgradeable. "Smart" TVs are a good example of this. I much prefer to use half-decent, non-"smart", full-HD LED TVs with a handful of USB and HDMI ports and add, upgrade and rip out my own "smarts" as suits me.

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:32am

jimgoose wrote: »

Ever wonder why big trucks run for millions of miles with very little trouble, and those huge Caterpillar machines typically serve for decades, with Cat supporting a "rip out/repair/refurbish" service? It's because commercial operators don't put up with the sort of bollocks outlined in your rather decent post.

Exactly. Of course they can make cars run for decades, but the economic model of consumerist replacement won't allow it. Hell, I run a car that's 21 years old. It's been as reliable as granite, when driven easy returns over 40 Mpg and needs feck all by way of repairs and when it did the stuff was available and cheap enough. Way cheaper than current parts in the main and far easier to replace and fit parts, with none of this it needs to be plugged into a main dealer's computer to authorise the part sh1te). The problem is now some parts aren't available and that will get worse, unless they do a Mercedes and start remanufacturing parts(at a price premium) for older cars. Never mind that other forces are ranged agin you running an older car. Insurance can be a nightmare for a start, unless you go "classic" which requires a new(er) car as the main vehicle. It's as if "they" want to force people to buy new. Yet as far as carbon footprints go I'm way ahead of some knit your own muesli vegan sandal wearer who has bought a new Prius every few years and is now in a second gen Nissan Leaf thinking he's saving the penguins.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 11:34am

Wibbs wrote: »

...as far as carbon footprints go I'm way ahead of some knit your own muesli vegan sandal wearer who has bought a new Prius every few years and is now in a second gen Nissan Leaf thinking he's saving the penguins.

I had to scrap my 20-year-old Jaaaaag at the start of this year, and now I drive a 2011 Focus turbodiesel that does 60mpg and requires no solid jade nor Unobtanium neither!

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:35am

Bob Harris wrote: »

I've read a few times that if all of the world's wealth was equally distributed it would take only a couple of generations to find it's way back into the hands it was taken from.

And it's a stupid theory as it is completely unprovable. Generally only believed by the daft like libertarians or the naive, or dumb.

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:41am

jimgoose wrote: »

I had to scrap my 20-year-old Jaaaaag at the start of this year, and now I drive a 2011 Focus turbodiesel that does 60mpg and requires no solid jade nor Unobtanium neither!

aye J, but it's only 8 years old, when and if it gets to 20, watch how hard parts will be to source then. That said the motoring landscape will have changed a lot in the next couple of decades.

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 11:41am

Wibbs wrote: »

And it's a stupid theory as it is completely unprovable. Generally only believed by the daft like libertarians or the naive, or dumb.

Certainly not provable but common sense would tell you that if it happened within a few generations the wealth distribution would change significantly.

Your Face · 17-10-2019 11:42am

I'm not saying a population cull is a good idea, I'm just saying if they were to go away, would it be that bad?
Obviously not me of course I'm much too good looking.
God I'm so sexy.
It's ridiculous.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 11:44am

Wibbs wrote: »

aye J, but it's only 8 years old, when and if it gets to 20, watch how hard parts will be to source then. That said the motoring landscape will have changed a lot in the next couple of decades.

Ah, I'll change 'er again sometime within the next 12 years. :pac:

biko · 17-10-2019 11:44am

We need to stop the emerging middle classes in India, China and Africa.
It's not sustainable for them to consume in that way.

jimgoose · 17-10-2019 11:45am

biko wrote: »

We need to stop the emerging middle classes in India, China and Africa.
It's not sustainable for them to consume in that way.

Right. What are we talking, tacnukes?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-10-2019 11:46am

First off: reusing and repairing stuff. If your devices break, there'll be a push on to just replace the part that needs fixing. Also, upgrading will become less likely. Practically first.

Secondly: enviromentally unfriendly actions such as eating meat and flying will be cut down up on and become more and more expensive. Ireland, being an island, will be hit by this more than the continent.

Ultimately, it'll be more lifestyle changes than sacrifices that make the difference. You can still go to the Premier league game in Liverpool or Manchester, but you might have to take the Ferry. You'll still be able to eat meat, but maybe once or twice a week instead of every day. You'll still be able to email from the car, but it'll be on a four-year-old mobile rather than the latest model.

Nothing you can't handle, a lot of us already do this anyway

Bob Harris · 17-10-2019 11:46am

biko wrote: »

We need to stop the emerging middle classes in India, China and Africa.
It's not sustainable for them to consume in that way.

Exactly, they should be working for us!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-10-2019 11:49am

Wibbs wrote: »

And it's a stupid theory as it is completely unprovable. Generally only believed by the daft like libertarians or the naive, or dumb.

Dunno. The disproportion would certainly be back, but not necessarily in the same hands.

The wealth imbalance is more down the greed and insecurity than anything else, and if those ideals survive, the system will survive.

It's often said that the past is obdurate, will so is the future.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-10-2019 11:49am

Anyone remember those little repair shops many years ago, there was one near me and you could drop anything in to be fixed from hoovers to radios, hairdryers etc.

I haven't seen one in a long time as I suspect with disposable consumerism it's nearly as cheap to just replace than repair.

It's such a pity, but obviously as electronics cheapened work for those places dried up.

Was glad to recently discover a lawnmower repair business at a local warehouse and he is out the door with business.

The low cost of goods and apparent increase in wealth has not been kind to the planet.

Wibbs · 17-10-2019 11:52am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dunno. The disproportion would certainly be back, but not necessarily in the same hands.

Oh I agree. The disproportion would likely come back, but almost certainly not in the same hands. Generational wealth would be gone for a start as those who built it up in the first place would be long dead.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 17-10-2019 11:54am

mariaalice wrote: »

We all can't continue to consume in the same way as we have in a planet with finite resources.

Technological advances can help us consume less. Just look at all the things digital devices like smartphones, tablets, and e-readers have replaced or are reducing physical consumption of --

Alarm clocks
Books
Magazines
Newspapers
TVs
Paper bills
Letters and cards
Landlines and answering machines
Point and shoot cameras
Camcorders
Calculators
Music players & stereo systems
Cassette tapes, LPs, and CDs
Maps and atlases
Paper calendars & planners
TVs, VCRs, video tapes

The list goes on.

So how would our new life look, a life where we consume less ( consume less of what? ) do art ( even for those who do not have the talent or interest in art ) promote communities ( how exactly? and what does that mean? )

I don't know that art requires lots consumption — indeed, some artists specialize in turning "found" objects into art. Similarly, we can promote communities through numerous activities that don't require lots of consumption.

blinding · 17-10-2019 11:57am

biko wrote: »

We need to stop the emerging middle classes in India, China and Africa.
It's not sustainable for them to consume in that way.

So says the Western Middle and Upper Class:eek::D:eek:

Thelonious Monk · 17-10-2019 11:57am

If you measure your standard of living by happiness and GDP and how much crap you buy, then we need to lower that standard of living yes. The powers that be push it upon us that mega consumerism is the only way to go. We could all work way less, have more free time, cleaner air, happier families, if we slowed the economy down, shared more services equally, and brought about a new philosophy towards life.
Any mention of this though and you're called a communist and a woke tree hugging trustafarian. Most people just want everyone to own a car each and burn through the earth's resources like there's no tomorrow and everything is infinite. So we're f*cked.

stoneill · 17-10-2019 11:58am

Each country has to reduce population by 50%.
I know which group I'd start with.

Thelonious Monk · 17-10-2019 12:03pm

stoneill wrote: »

Each country has to reduce population by 50%.
I know which group I'd start with.

Qatarians!

https://www.livescience.com/20308-greedy-nations-top-resource-users-earth.html

We are no 10 on that list, that's not good.

LirW · 17-10-2019 12:03pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

First off: reusing and repairing stuff. If your devices break, there'll be a push on to just replace the part that needs fixing. Also, upgrading will become less likely. Practically first.

Secondly: enviromentally unfriendly actions such as eating meat and flying will be cut down up on and become more and more expensive. Ireland, being an island, will be hit by this more than the continent.

Ultimately, it'll be more lifestyle changes than sacrifices that make the difference. You can still go to the Premier league game in Liverpool or Manchester, but you might have to take the Ferry. You'll still be able to eat meat, but maybe once or twice a week instead of every day. You'll still be able to email from the car, but it'll be on a four-year-old mobile rather than the latest model.

Nothing you can't handle, a lot of us already do this anyway

I read an interesting article about the conundrum with train prices v flight prices in Europe and it is an interesting one. We all have a certain budget for things and while many would prefer to take night trains to get to their destinations the difference on price is often hundreds of euros and booking a train trip through several countries is often incredibly difficult if not virtually impossible.

And it's similar when it comes to repairing electronics. Does it even pay off if repairing it is more expensive than replacing it? What is the likelihood of high quality parts being fitted? Will said part still work in 6 months time if I make a financially viable decision to replace it with a more budget part in order to keep the cost down for myself?
Smartphones are such a bad example because they're notoriously difficult to repair in a cost effective way.

The truth is that the insust collectively decided to lower product quality to flip more and by this being accepted by lawmakers we as consumers had the choice taken away from us by choosing from sh*tty option A) or sh*tty

that don't address the real elephant in the room.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 17-10-2019 12:17pm

LirW wrote: »

Smartphones are such a bad example because they're notoriously difficult to repair in a cost effective way.

The problem with smartphones is that manufacturers typically release a "must-have" upgrade every year. The lemmings are then driven bananas by the hype and believe that life is not worth living until get their hands on the newest model.

Then there's the forced upgrade. My wife had an iPhone 6, which was around 4 years old. It had a few scratches and marks, but was working fine, and she saw no reason to replace it until she realized that the new iOS 13 would not be supported on her phone. So she had to choose between keeping the older device and running and older (and potentially less secure) version of the OS. So she did upgrade, but if the OS had been supported for longer, she would have been happy to keep her old phone.

Thelonious Monk · 17-10-2019 12:23pm

Reyansh Scruffy Ufo wrote: »

The problem with smartphones is that manufacturers typically release a "must-have" upgrade every year. The lemmings are then driven bananas by the hype and believe that life is not worth living until get their hands on the newest model.

Then there's the forced upgrade. My wife had an iPhone 6, which was around 4 years old. It had a few scratches and marks, but was working fine, and she saw no reason to replace it until she realized that the new iOS 13 would not be supported on her phone. So she had to choose between keeping the older device and running and older (and potentially less secure) version of the OS. So she did upgrade, but if the OS had been supported for longer, she would have been happy to keep her old phone.

Yes iPhones are bastards in that the app store doesn't work with the iOS once it gets to a certain age so eventually you have to upgrade. I've had my iPhone 5 that I got from previous job for about 4 years now and it's grand. I never understand these idiots that queue up for new ones or spend loads of money on phones, they all do the same thing.

LirW · 17-10-2019 12:30pm

Reyansh Scruffy Ufo wrote: »

The problem with smartphones is that manufacturers typically release a "must-have" upgrade every year. The lemmings are then driven bananas by the hype and believe that life is not worth living until get their hands on the newest model.

Then there's the forced upgrade. My wife had an iPhone 6, which was around 4 years old. It had a few scratches and marks, but was working fine, and she saw no reason to replace it until she realized that the new iOS 13 would not be supported on her phone. So she had to choose between keeping the older device and running and older (and potentially less secure) version of the OS. So she did upgrade, but if the OS had been supported for longer, she would have been happy to keep her old phone.

I usually just buy a 200 euro Motorola but same problem, 3-4 years down the line the hardware cannot keep up with the new system updates anymore.
In fairness, the last one I ruined myself after 3 years, still going strong and me being clumsy as always dropped it into the toilet. Irreparable water damage. Just days after saying how happy I am with the phone and it's still working so well.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-10-2019 12:34pm

Read a book on zero waste and one thing that stood out to me was, "before you buy anything just take a moment to think about the products end of life" be that a car or a bar of chocolate, it has certainly put me off some purchases.

Personally I don't buy into the consumerism, the problem is we have multiple younger generations who are enraptured by it and almost live their lives by it.

Upgrading phones, appliances, cars etc just to have a new shiny model. We are bombarded by marketing from the moment we wake up.

I like a frugal existence and always try to buy preloved from clothes to furniture and pass on items to others when possible.

I recycle and compost anything that can and analysed the rubbish bin weekly to get a good idea about what is going to landfill so I can change habits.

I just think there's too much money involved for the big industries to really shift how things are done. They are in a position to really make a difference but I fear that short term goal of profit now will always win.

ToddyDoody · 17-10-2019 12:40pm

Juniper Uneven Extinguisher wrote: »

Personally, I don't buy into the consumerism

!

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-10-2019 12:41pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes iPhones are bastards in that the app store doesn't work with the iOS once it gets to a certain age so eventually you have to upgrade. I've had my iPhone 5 that I got from previous job for about 4 years now and it's grand. I never understand these idiots that queue up for new ones or spend loads of money on phones, they all do the same thing.

I bought an old refurbished iPhone and had this problem.

There is a bit of a workaround for this for apps that are only supported by a more recent iOS. I installed an old version of the apple app store on to my Windows laptop and logged in with my apple ID there.

Once I install the apps there it let's me get them on the old iPhone. Bit of a pain but a workaround nonetheless.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-10-2019 12:41pm

ToddyDoody wrote: »

!

Pun intended!!

mariaalice · 17-10-2019 12:42pm

Reyansh Scruffy Ufo wrote: »

Technological advances can help us consume less. Just look at all the things digital devices like smartphones, tablets, and e-readers have replaced or are reducing physical consumption of --

Alarm clocks
Books
Magazines
Newspapers
TVs
Paper bills
Letters and cards
Landlines and answering machines
Point and shoot cameras
Camcorders
Calculators
Music players & stereo systems
Cassette tapes, LPs, and CDs
Maps and atlases
Paper calendars & planners
TVs, VCRs, video tapes

The list goes on.

I don't know that art requires lots consumption — indeed, some artists specialize in turning "found" objects into art. Similarly, we can promote communities through numerous activities that don't require lots of consumption.

It dose no work like that its not so simple, its a bit like universal basic income which in theory would free people to do creative authentic work, projects, and art, for some maybe but for a not insignificant minority they dont have the skill talent or ability to live like that they would end up consuming a lot of drugs and fighting with their family.

Yes its has become a bit ludicrous to see a petrol-guzzling car with a badge as a status symbol the idea of status symbols has not gone away its just moved on to something else consumerism has not gone away.

Also it's ludicrous to think that advances in medicine which cost billions in research don't use a huge amoutn of the earth resources, so somehow we are going to able to give someone dialysis which costs a couple of hundred thousand a year and uber-expensive cancer drugs or we going to stop that becaue of home much of the earth resources its uses?.

The changes that are needed would collapse society as we know it, it would need a fundamental change in human nature that I can see happening.

I could be wrong of course.

,

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-10-2019 12:51pm

stoneill wrote: »

Each country has to reduce population by 50%.
I know which group I'd start with.

I'd still vote for Thanos ahead of you, to be honest!

How would it work in real life.

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