Have you ever met an actual Psychopath?

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 1:11pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't know. But also the UK is quite high for its population.

Scotland is prolific in that regard, weirdly.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 1:13pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Scotland is prolific in that regard, weirdly.

Strange. I wonder is it different metrics or genuinely more serial killers?

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 1:16pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Strange. I wonder is it different metrics or genuinely more serial killers?

Most British serial killers are Scottish. Some never caught.

sbsquarepants · 23-09-2020 1:26pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Most British serial killers are Scottish. Some never caught.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to deflect attention....If they were never caught how do you know they were Scottish?

Well....psycho?:eek:

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 1:32pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Sounds to me like someone is trying to deflect attention....If they were never caught how do you know they were Scottish?

Well....psycho?:eek:

There was a guy in the 60s who would deliberately target menstruating women. 'Bible Jim' he was called by the press. So called because he presented himself as a clean cut kirk man with an ever ready Bible quote. Witness accounts link all victims to this man and he is still believed to be the killer but was never caught. Of course, he could have been faking his Scottish accent in Scotland and none of the Scottish people ever twigged. ...

As a matter if fact, some people believe he could in fact be Peter Tobin as the age profile and locations fit. I doubt very much we know about all his victims.

gimli2112 · 23-09-2020 1:42pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Could someone explain why America is the serial killer capital of the world.
Per head of population they have an insane amount compared to the rest of the world.
Something like 12 of them operating in the states at any one time I think I heard somewhere!

I think some of it is because of how their media works and how they deal with crime. Some of the South American serial killers are terrifying. There's one who killed 150+ kids who was released from prison, after serving his sentence. At the time I read the article no-one knew where he was. Likewise I'm sure Russia and China have similar experiences but it's just not reported.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 1:46pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Could someone explain why America is the serial killer capital of the world.
Per head of population they have an insane amount compared to the rest of the world.
Something like 12 of them operating in the states at any one time I think I heard somewhere!

I remember reading something about China's unaccounted or rather, unpublished numbers of violent crimes in the multiple murders category. It is hard to know, really, because the US and UK are wide open as far as disseminating information.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 1:46pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

There was a guy in the 60s who would deliberately target menstruating women. 'Bible Jim' he was called by the press. So called because he presented himself as a clean cut kirk man with an ever ready Bible quote. Witness accounts link all victims to this man and he is still believed to be the killer but was never caught. Of course, he could have been faking his Scottish accent in Scotland and none of the Scottish people ever twigged. ...

As a matter if fact, some people believe he could in fact be Peter Tobin as the age profile and locations fit. I doubt very much we know about all his victims.

How did he know when they were on the rag??

sabat · 23-09-2020 1:49pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Could someone explain why America is the serial killer capital of the world.
Per head of population they have an insane amount compared to the rest of the world.
Something like 12 of them operating in the states at any one time I think I heard somewhere!

Consumerism and mass media makes people view their fellow human beings as products to be used for their enjoyment or fulfillment.

sabat · 23-09-2020 1:51pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How did he know when they were on the rag??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7pDyRslzbQ

23-09-2020 1:53pm

Psychopathy and Sociopathy are different but often used interchangeably. People tend not to be diagnosed with those labels but instead are deemed to have anti social personality disorder. That's really a blatant disregard for other people.

There are some similarities between the two which doesn't help with the assumption they are the same. Generally the signs will be present before the person reaches the age of 15. The DSM has a list of 7 traits, 3 of which must be met before given an ASPD diagnosis. Constant lying and deceit, lack of guilt and remorse, impulsive, irresponsible, are some.

The rule of thumb when classifying them is that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. It's actually quite sad for the latter. Research points strongly to nurture over nature. They tend to come from difficult home environments, abuse across the three categories often in evidence. They are more impulsive and prone to violent outbursts as a result of being easily angered.

One huge difference between them and psychopaths is that it's thought they can experience a small degree of empathy and remorse. This makes sense given their capacity for emotional outbursts.

Psychopaths are a different beast altogether. They don't display such emotional responses and are well able to project an exterior of 'normality' to the world. They are vastly superior in controlling themselves and certainly wouldn't be shouting and roaring or performing violent acts. Much like the narcissist self preservation is everything. If they are planning on hurting another then it will be very well thought out with zero emotional involvement.

Henry Bowers in Stephen King's IT is an example of a sociopath and Patrick Bateman in psycho is our psychopath. They are two extremes but you get the idea.

More and more I grow skeptical of 'personality disorders'. I find that they box people off and take no account of individuality and the vast constellation of factors involved. Perhaps psychopathy and sociopathy are different ways of being in the world. Unpalatable and all as they are.

I've come across many strange people but I can't say with any certainty if I've encountered the above.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 1:53pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How did he know when they were on the rag??

Apparently some people have a higher olfactory capacity then others. Also, it was time when menstrual hygiene products required a suspender belt which, if you looked carefully you could see through tight fitting clothes or ran your hands around a person's waist you could feel it, if that's what you were specifically looking for and knew what to look for. There is also the theory that he would only kill the women that he discovered were menstruating once intimacy started. His signature was to leave the used sanitary pad displayed next to his poor victim's body.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 1:57pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Apparently some people have a higher olfactory capacity then others. Also, it was time when menstrual hygiene products required a suspender belt which, if you looked carefully you could see through tight fitting clothes or ran your hands around a person's waist you could feel it, if that's what you were specifically looking for and knew what to look for. There is also the theory that he would only kill the women that he discovered were menstruating once intimacy started. His signature was to leave the used sanitary pad displayed next to his poor victim's body.

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WUT ???

KaneToad · 23-09-2020 2:01pm

Yep. A friend of a friend. He's a very successful business man. He's a nice fellow and good company too. However, I'm glad I neither work with him or live with him. I only interact with him infrequently.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 2:01pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

WUT ???

Yeah. He was a vile, woman hating, woman killing monster. The women he killed were real women with real lives and really suffered a brutal and horrific death and were really demeaned in death in that way. And the fukcer was never brought to justice. Nothing to joke about.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 2:03pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

WUT ???

Wutz all this talk of sociopaffs and psychopaffs? Geez.

hayoc · 23-09-2020 2:09pm

Dognapper wrote: »

I hope you’re happier without him so , I don’t know , I have a few traits of one myself , no friends , no remorse or empathy for people , I can lie with a straight face. I however love my wife and kids more than anything and will always put them before myself or anyone else ,I’ve never cheated on my wife and I always try to be a kind person , I think it’s a broad spectrum and a lot more too it than the eyes can see.

Right now Im so deep in trauma that happiness is not possible. I lost my home, my belongings, my family (the in laws ghosted me, Ive no other family), stability, ability to trust etc

I have PTSD from it which gives me crippling anxiety, depersonalisation, fugue states, I suffer hallucinations, night terrors, insomnia, Ive developed jaw problems from grinding my teeth from stress, I am unable to function normally, I have wild mood swings from anger to pain back to anger again.

I am completely unable to trust anyone, I perceive danger at every turn, I flinch when I walk by people on the street because I feel like I am going to be attacked all the time. I cannot stand to be around people yet I am so lonely that I think of ending my life almost daily.

I dont think Ill ever get over it. He destroyed me. Its very difficult to explain to anyone but breach of trust was so deep that the best analogy I can make is that when I discovered his double life I felt like he had been raping me while I was asleep.

It was a completely accidental discovery too.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 2:17pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Yeah. He was a vile, woman hating, woman killing monster. The women he killed were real women with real lives and really suffered a brutal and horrific death and were really demeaned in death in that way. And the fukcer was never brought to justice. Nothing to joke about.

Sorry ....i have a macabre sense of humor.

Kaybaykwah

Wutz all this talk of sociopaffs and psychopaffs? Geez.

I dont know i didn't start it ..i just got lured in like a MOTH to a flame!:(

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 2:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The rule of thumb when classifying them is that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. It's actually quite sad for the latter.

Not half as sad as it is for anyone brought up by or with one of these sub humans. Or several. I'm with you in that 8 don't agree with the personality disorder label. It's just a way of medicalisung 'evil'. The modern way of understanding the same thing. I also think it's deeply unfair to lump people with Borderline Personality Disorder into the same group as them. For a start, it's treatable, so it is actually, a disorder.

There is very little difference between a narcissist and a sociopath. The narcissist will constantly seek praise and affirmation because they essentially have no self. The sociopath will happily self efface if it can get them what they want. Both are capable of utterly destroying the lives of those around them and from personal experience (so I know it's valueless!) I'm convinced there is a genetic link. The reason I never had children was because I didn't want to bring another monster like the ones that proliferate my family, on both sides for generations into this world.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 2:21pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

The reason I never had children was because I didn't want to bring another monster like the ones that proliferate my family, on both sides for generations into this world.

Im sorry you were in the situation.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 2:22pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Im sorry you were in the situation.

I'm still in that situation.

raher1 · 23-09-2020 2:23pm

Yes, they spread lies about you.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 2:26pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm still in that situation.

I see. Im sorry.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 2:30pm

Possibly ONE of us on this thread is a psycho .:eek:...

BAGS ITS ME!

weemcd · 23-09-2020 2:31pm

Hmm, a couple.

I once worked with a man that was having an affair, eventually ended up killing his mistress and did time over it. I only found out about this after I worked with him which is quite worrying. He was a polite chap, quite jittery, bit hard to figure out but I wouldn't have guessed that, however reading a few articles about him and you start to think, you know what that's not entirely surprising... I don't 100% know if he was a psychopath or not but I'd say it's highly possible.

Former boss of mine was quite likely a psychopath, incredibly wealthy, owned many businesses. Couldn't give a flying fùck about anyone and his only real concern was money. A person who once worked for him told me she phoned him to say her mother had died and she wouldn't be able to go to work and he just said OK and put the phone down. Knowing the man that doesn't surprise me one bit.

I have one ex girlfriend who had all the warning signs of a narcissist, I watched a few videos on narcissist behaviour and it was alarming how many fit her description. Thank Christ I got away from her quick.

A friend of mine once read a book about psychopaths and proclaimed another friend of his was almost certainly a psychopath, a third mutual agreed and the fellow in question agreed and did not try and deny this. I didn't know him that well but he was always a perfectly pleasant bloke. But the others knew him much better than I did. And they were all in agreement.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 2:38pm

raher1 wrote: »

Yes, they spread lies about you.

Yes they do. And most people will believe them. They will steal. They are like chameleons in that they will take on the personality, views and opinions of those around them to appear like them. Occasionally they will get it very wrong, though and you can see the bewilderment on their faces when people look at them aghast.
Here's an example of my sister talking about me to our cousins doing her best kind, caring act:
"Well, I decided to include her because she is actually part of the family, too. I only just realised that. Did you always see her as part of the family? "
The best one ever was this: " My counsellor told to me that other people's feelings are just as important as mine! No one actually thinks like that in the real world . If we did we"d never get what we wanted". This is a grown woman, a mother with a job and friends and this is the lens through which she sees the world. There are a lot of them out there.

Lollipops23 · 23-09-2020 2:49pm

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

I reckon so, I worked with him for 3 years

Defo counts.

Lol I didn't work directly with him, but my company collaborated with his.

I remember that November I started on the Xmas cards we were to send out to associates and his name was the very first one on it....I deleted it pretty sharpish!!

What stood out to me was how little he stood out to me. Seemed completely unremarkable.

antimatterx · 23-09-2020 2:54pm

Yep, any Sinn Fein voter. They're nuts. 🥜

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 3:05pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

What stood out to me was how little he stood out to me. Seemed completely unremarkable.

Something that is said about a lot of notorious killers. Peter Sutcliffe was remarkable in being unremarkable. Dull, boring, weak unprepossessing voice. Easily forgettable.

What Username Guidelines · 23-09-2020 3:07pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Lol I didn't work directly with him, but my company collaborated with his.

I remember that November I started on the Xmas cards we were to send out to associates and his name was the very first one on it....I deleted it pretty sharpish!!

What stood out to me was how little he stood out to me. Seemed completely unremarkable.

That comment would really irk him. All about image - flashy car, house, etc.

Errashareesh · 23-09-2020 3:14pm

I obviously don't mean simply being of the opinion that someone could be a psychopath, but you can't really know for certain unless they're diagnosed.

Just because you don't like someone/their politics doesn't mean they're psychopaths.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 3:23pm

Errashareesh wrote: »

I obviously don't mean simply being of the opinion that someone could be a psychopath, but you can't really know for certain unless they're diagnosed.

Just because you don't like someone/their politics doesn't mean they're psychopaths.

Most aren't diagnosed. Certain traits point towards a lack of empathy or a complete disregard for right and wrong in favour of their own self interests. and if they are consistent enough then it's best to respond by shoring up your boundaries and keeping your distance. People without empathy, or people who have empathy but consistently disregard others are dangerous. Maybe not to the degree that they are murderous but they can and will do you harm. Whether they are diagnosed psychopaths, sociopaths or narcissists or not is immaterial.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 3:27pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Sorry ....i have a macabre sense of humor.

Kaybaykwah

I dont know i didn't start it ..i just got lured in like a MOTH to a flame!:(

Yes, my reply was independent of yours, no worries. My sense of humor must be like yours. But really, it's not an easy thing to keep a straight face when reading about this stuff.
On the other hand, I am really sorry for hayoc, and all the pain she has experienced.

A very positive thing about hayoc is that she seems very aware of what transpired now.
I think that there is a sizable number of effed up sunzabidges
in the world, there are many mire decent, caring people. If I had any advice for hayoc, it would be this: do reach out to persons who are genuinely known as caring for support. Your trust was betrayed, and you have difficulty discriminating potential abusers of that trust. Any sensitive person will feel your pain. You need to find trustworthy people to bring you around to a sense of worth. Do not despair, and find the right resources, reading materials, etc...

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 3:31pm

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

in the world, there are many mire decent, caring people.

This. I need to remind myself sometimes.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 3:35pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Most aren't diagnosed. Certain traits point towards a lack of empathy or a complete disregard for right and wrong in favour of their own self interests. and if they are consistent enough then it's best to respond by shoring up your boundaries and keeping your distance. People without empathy, or people who have empathy but consistently disregard others are dangerous. Maybe not to the degree that they are murderous but they can and will do you harm. Whether they are diagnosed psychopaths, sociopaths or narcissists or not is immaterial.

Well, the diagnoses are not totally rigid in psychiatry, and evolve quite a bit in time. There are distinctions that are interesting, and helpful in therapeutic or forensic terms, among other things. I think one of the major distinctions is between those who are neurologically affected and those who are behavioral dicks.

hayoc · 23-09-2020 3:39pm

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

A very positive thing about hayoc is that she seems very aware of what transpired now.
I think that there is a sizable number of effed up sunzabidges
in the world, there are many mire decent, caring people. If I had any advice for hayoc, it would be this: do reach out to persons who are genuinely known as caring for support. Your trust was betrayed, and you have difficulty discriminating potential abusers of that trust. Any sensitive person will feel your pain. You need to find trustworthy people to bring you around to a sense of worth. Do not despair, and find the right resources, reading materials, etc...

I see a counsellor, I am in a support group online, my GP has me come in every few weeks to reassess if I need meds. Because its a trauma and I am not clinically depressed, but rather suffering understandable effects of the trauma, she only gives me anxiety meds and sleeping meds to be used sparingly, not anti depressants.

Even though I will probably crawl back to a place where I am more functional, I dont think any amount of counselling in the world will get me past the sheer disbelief and hurt of the betrayal. Most people just dont get it, people tell me to "get over it", to "move on" - if I could I would!!

Theres a very specific type of traumatic reaction that happens when you find out your life was a lie. Your "cornerstone" is gone. I presume the same thing happens when people discover a family member is a secret murderer or pedo. It causes a massive disconnect with reality. I dont know anymore what, if anything, about my marriage was real.

Just to add some context, I knew my husband for almost 30 years. Finding out unexpectedly that he had a completely separate double life (which was also exposing me to harm because it involved using women from a specific fetish website to service his fetishes, fetishes that would carry a higher risk of STD) has been the single most destructive thing that I have ever experienced.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 3:49pm

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Well, the diagnoses are not totally rigid in psychiatry, and evolve quite a bit in time. There are distinctions that are interesting, and helpful in therapeutic or forensic terms, among other things. I think one of the major distinctions is between those who are neurologically affected and those who are behavioral dicks.

Yeah. I think so. Clinically of course the distinaction's are important but for general Joe soaps when you see constant lies, obvious lack of concern for others, when people seem off in some way (like when they actually tell you that other people's feelings aren't as important as their own!) the safe bet is to detatch if you can. If you've experienced it from a young age it's easier to spot the 'tells'. Whether they are diagnosed or even diagnosable is besides the point . Get away and stay away.

The difference between nuerological and 'simply' behavioural? If there is no physical or reason for someone being an utter, amoral c you next Tuesday is it really as 'disorder'? Some people are just bad to the bone cos they want to be, maybe?

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 3:54pm

hayoc wrote: »

I see a counsellor, I am in a support group online, my GP has me come in every few weeks to reassess if I need meds. Because its a trauma and I am not clinically depressed, but rather suffering understandable effects of the trauma, she only gives me anxiety meds and sleeping meds to be used sparingly, not anti depressants.

Even though I will probably crawl back to a place where I am more functional, I dont think any amount of counselling in the world will get me past the sheer disbelief and hurt of the betrayal. Most people just dont get it, people tell me to "get over it", to "move on" - if I could I would!!

Theres a very specific type of traumatic reaction that happens when you find out your life was a lie. Your "cornerstone" is gone. I presume the same thing happens when people discover a family member is a secret murderer or pedo. It causes a massive disconnect with reality. I dont know anymore what, if anything, about my marriage was real.

Just to add some context, I knew my husband for almost 30 years. Finding out unexpectedly that he had a completely separate double life (which was also exposing me to harm because it involved using women from a specific fetish website to service his fetishes, fetishes that would carry a higher risk of STD) has been the single most destructive thing that I have ever experienced.

Anyone telling you to 'get over it' and 'move on' is being totally insensitive, havoc. You've had your world turned upside down. No one deserves what happened to you. You come across as incredibly strong. It's very early days yet for you.

Rezident · 23-09-2020 4:02pm

The job with the highest % of psychopaths is lawyers. If you have met or worked with enough lawyers, you have probably met a few psychopaths.

Some of them are very charming (when they want something and until they don't get their own way). A psychopath is not an axe-murderer, it is just someone with little or no empathy, you can test for this using a test such as the E-Qi test (but a smart psychopath will know how to beat the test by giving false empathetic answers).

A lot of psychopaths work as CEOs apparently, as they are not bothered by making decisions that, say, ruin peoples' careers or lives etc. They often view this empathy as a weakness in others.

An ex-boss of mine was a psychpath - highly intelligent, very articulate, technically brilliant and excellent in meetings and at persuading senior managers that he was great at everything. He could even act funny and as if he cared about people, it was very convincing at first. But he over-burdened all of the staff, particularly junior staff with excessive workloads, til loads of people left. One time a girl was crying over it and when I told him she was actually crying, he looked at me blankly and told me to get someone else to do it then. I heard from a friend of his that after his wife had a miscarriage, he was driving her home from hospital when he stopped off at work and went to a meeting. He left her outside on her own in the car and just went to his meeting.

hayoc · 23-09-2020 4:18pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Anyone telling you to 'get over it' and 'move on' is being totally insensitive, havoc. You've had your world turned upside down. No one deserves what happened to you. You come across as incredibly strong. It's very early days yet for you.

I know I know, I suppose its that people just think "you had a break up - get over it" - but its really much much more than that. And its not like I give a great level of detail to everyone. For example, I had to tell them in work, because I was in a terrible state and needed time off etc... but I just said I found out my husband was being unfaithful and the marriage had broken up. I guess that puts a certain picture in peoples minds, but its only a small bit of the truth.

Its actually something that a lot of people are unable to relate to. Some of the things I discovered were so extreme that its difficult to believe. Some people just seem perplexed and are convinced that I must have known *something* was wrong. I didnt.

Even the counsellor is taken aback by some of the stuff that I found out. A small example, he asked me to give him a lift to a work do. Not only did I give the lift, but went home, made food and left him out food in case he was hungry when he got home, did the household chores etc and specifically did a couple of bits he had asked me to do while I was driving him in. It turned out afterwards that the work do was a fabrication, he had me drive him to meet a prostitute.

When I told my counsellor this she was full sure I must be mistaken. She asked was I torturing myself with imagined stuff. But it is what happened. He even admitted it was true after I confronted him with it. But even a trained counsellor found it difficult to believe. God knows how many other times I dropped him off for "work do's" or whatever and he was really meeting strangers for sex.

I think the bit I find most difficult to believe is how he was able to maintain the double life for so long and never slip up at all. In fact, he didnt slip up, I found out by accident. I am absolutely sure I only discovered the tip of the iceberg.

Lollipops23 · 23-09-2020 4:20pm

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

That comment would really irk him. All about image - flashy car, house, etc.

For all his talk his house was f**king hideous.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 4:39pm

Hayoc, I really feel for you. The important thing here is for you to know what he did. You don't need other people to validate your reaction. It's entirely understandable and I must say your strength is remarkable.

Yes, for you it must take mind bending exercises to come to grips with his deception. There are going to be people who won't believe you. Because some people don't want to accept that there is that much badness in someone, I think. Or they'll make excuses for his behaviour. Be prepared for that. Remember you know what he's done and you don't need anyone else's credulity to make it more real or your own suffering more understandable. What you are going through is terrible and completely understandable in light of what he did. The fact that you have faced it head on in all its ugliness shows what an honest and brave woman you are. There are lovely people in the world, hayoc. Truly beautiful, kind and full of love and joy. And you will connect with those people again.I know you can't see that now but try and remember a truly 'good' person you know or used to know. Think of them as a counterpoint. That is something that I find helps me when I feel swamped by toxicity. It might help you? Good luck to you. You're a fantastic woman and you're still standing.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 4:55pm

Rezident wrote: »

He left her outside on her own in the car and just went to his meeting.

I hope she copped on and left him to his meetings. He might have had perfect traits for a CEO and great fun to have as a casual partner but not good Dad material, that's for sure.

hayoc · 23-09-2020 4:57pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Hayoc, I really feel for you. The important thing here is for you to know what he did. You don't need other people to validate your reaction. It's entirely understandable and I must say your strength is remarkable.

Yes, for you it must take mind bending exercises to come to grips with his deception. There are going to be people who won't believe you. Because some people don't want to accept that there is that much badness in someone, I think. Or they'll make excuses for his behaviour. Be prepared for that. Remember you know what he's done and you don't need anyone else's credulity to make it more real or your own suffering more understandable. What you are going through is terrible and completely understandable in light of what he did. The fact that you have faced it head on in all its ugliness shows what an honest and brave woman you are. There are lovely people in the world, hayoc. Truly beautiful, kind and full of love and joy. And you will connect with those people again.I know you can't see that now but try and remember a truly 'good' person you know or used to know. Think of them as a counterpoint. That is something that I find helps me when I feel swamped by toxicity. It might help you? Good luck to you. You're a fantastic woman and you're still standing.

Thanks for your kind words.

Im still in a place where Im quite introverted from the world - I think I did the instinctual "crawl into a quiet place to lick wounds" so I am actually not interacting with many people at all (of course lockdown has contributed).

I know that rationally - there are good people. I KNOW that people are not fundamentally untrustworthy. But I feel like my "picker" is broken. If someone I knew for almost 30 years, who was the person (I thought) I was closest to most in the world, if that person could make a fool of me like that - then Im not good at choosing eh?

I suppose to look at it from the opposite perspective - there are bad people in the world - but I cannot distinguish them from the good people. I just dont know anymore.

I dont want to become a bitter introvert afraid to make an emotional connection with anyone, but I feel like I could easily stay that way rather than take the risk again - even in friendship. If there is one thing life has shown me, its that a lot of people do let you down, to some degree or other. The only way to protect yourself is to not get close to anyone.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 5:09pm

Havoc, I think right now you are in exactly the place you need to be. Many would contrive to distract and divert and the fact that your instincts took you straight to that really difficult place of initial healing says a great deal of good things about your instincts.

I can absolutely relate to the 'broken picker' analogy. I'm sure your therapist is working with you on that. It's not broken but I understand why you can't trust it right now.

I didn't even have 'a picker' coming from my family background and you can guess where that got me! All I will say is, I do now, and I can trust it. No matter how good our 'pickers' are there are rotten people who can fly under every radar and that is something I've struggled to accecpt. My hope for you is that your PTSD will abate with time and you will find some comfort soon.

hayoc · 23-09-2020 5:18pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

I didn't even have 'a picker' coming from my family background and you can guess where that got me!

Ironically, I come from a background of parental alcoholism and tragedy - my father killed my mother and himself in a drunken accident (house fire). So I did years of work on myself NOT to repeat the mistakes of the past and pick a person with alcohol issues (or a dry drunk).

My ex had no issues with alcohol. And I was not primed for the secrets he did have.

Yes - I really hope the PTSD goes or lessens, its so disruptive. I still have flashbacks from my original PTSD experience (parental situation), and now I got them from my ex situation too.

Sometimes I think some people are just punching bags for the world or karma or whatever.

I didnt do anything to deserve the way my parents treated me. And I definitely didnt do anything to deserve the way my ex husband treated me.

Yet here I am.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 5:32pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Havoc, I think right now you are in exactly the place you need to be. Many would contrive to distract and divert and the fact that your instincts took you straight to that really difficult place of initial healing says a great deal of good things about your instincts.

True that.

In fact, it is a much healthier place to be, as you say than someone who keeps choosing, or rather falling for the chronically deceptive, manipulative beings out there.

Sardonicat · 23-09-2020 5:37pm

Ah hayoc, I'm so, so sorry for what the world served up to you. You're right. You don't deserve any of it. I didn't deserve the mother and siblings I got or the abusive relationships that family background walked me into. Yet here we are. We're both good people. I'm by no means perfect. I am very damaged. I'm a far cry from the wonderful, light filled people I referred to earlier but I'm not malicious or cruel or selfish. I care about other people and society in general. So do you. We are not karmic punch bags. We are tough old birds who got dealt a sh1t hand but that hasn't corrupted our spirits. Please don't go down the route of thinking things like karmic punchbags. I can relate but I know that you need your rational mind to be on tip top form to survive. You are very rational. Embrace that. And fuk your ex. He's a rotten scumbag. You couldn't know what he was. You weren't looking for signs of what he did. Most people don't know what to look for (except fuked up folks like me) and he is what he is so didn't give himself away.

I don't think I've ever wanted to give a complete stranger on the Internet a hug more than I want to hug you right now.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 5:41pm

hayoc wrote: »

Ironically, I come from a background of parental alcoholism and tragedy - my father killed my mother and himself in a drunken accident (house fire). So I did years of work on myself NOT to repeat the mistakes of the past and pick a person with alcohol issues (or a dry drunk).

My ex had no issues with alcohol. And I was not primed for the secrets he did have.

Yes - I really hope the PTSD goes or lessens, its so disruptive. I still have flashbacks from my original PTSD experience (parental situation), and now I got them from my ex situation too.

Sometimes I think some people are just punching bags for the world or karma or whatever.

I didnt do anything to deserve the way my parents treated me. And I definitely didnt do anything to deserve the way my ex husband treated me.

Yet here I am.

Yes, I understand. I think about what you just said on the lottery of life. I mean, none of us get to choose our parents, that is a given.

You can choose a neighborhood within your means, but can you really pick your neighbors?

And as far as choosing a mate or a friend, the nuance is lost when you put your trust in someone and the revelation that this someone was toxic to a high degree.

Kaybaykwah · 23-09-2020 5:56pm

Rezident wrote: »

The job with the highest % of psychopaths is lawyers. If you have met or worked with enough lawyers, you have probably met a few psychopaths.

Some of them are very charming (when they want something and until they don't get their own way). A psychopath is not an axe-murderer, it is just someone with little or no empathy, you can test for this using a test such as the E-Qi test (but a smart psychopath will know how to beat the test by giving false empathetic answers).

A lot of psychopaths work as CEOs apparently, as they are not bothered by making decisions that, say, ruin peoples' careers or lives etc. They often view this empathy as a weakness in others.

An ex-boss of mine was a psychpath - highly intelligent, very articulate, technically brilliant and excellent in meetings and at persuading senior managers that he was great at everything. He could even act funny and as if he cared about people, it was very convincing at first. But he over-burdened all of the staff, particularly junior staff with excessive workloads, til loads of people left. One time a girl was crying over it and when I told him she was actually crying, he looked at me blankly and told me to get someone else to do it then. I heard from a friend of his that after his wife had a miscarriage, he was driving her home from hospital when he stopped off at work and went to a meeting. He left her outside on her own in the car and just went to his meeting.

That story resonates with me pretty strongly. My mother-in-law used to live with her boyfriend for 31 years until she decided to leave this year. We went and got all her stuff from a small town in Northern Quebec, a ten hour drive from home. She only told her ex she was staying the summer with us, and got boxes and bags of her clothes, etc... He was a manipulative bastard, and insulting to her, though never physically abusive. She had 4 brothers nearby and 3 sisters who would not have stood for that.

One story my Mom-in-law told us was the time they both went on a car ride and he decided to stop at a farm, (he is a retired tractor salesman) and he left her waiting in the car for 7 hours. That was early on in her relationship with him. They used to live together in her house, where she had a small business. His tractor business was in the town he moved to when she retired and sold her house. She was feeling more and more isolated and fearful of him. He was the kind of guy who liked to put her down (never in front of us) and insult and pick verbal fights with bank clerks and in shops. So we told her we were taking her in, and she now is feeling much better, but her nerves are still raw. He kept calling her, sending letters and emailing but to no avail. I picked up the phone one day a month ago and told him I didn't want him to call her anymore. That was that.

Have you ever met an actual Psychopath?

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