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Hive v Nest v Climote

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  • 10-11-2016 10:58am
    #1
    Irish Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭


    Ok looking at changing energy providers as currently with Flo Gas for Gas and Electric Ireland for Electricity

    Have an old timer and was looking at getting controller that I can control via app. I only have the one zone, which from my understanding is that when I turn on heat it heats up water and Radiators, this correct? If so I want to get these separate so that I can control the water and heating separately. Electric Ireland said this could be possible with some updating to my system.

    If I switch to Electric Ireland the Climote is free and the Nest is 99 including installation have not checked prices for Hive and I am not any good with installing these so rather pay for it

    Main use would be to have the option of been able to switch on heat/water remotely via phone so not coming home to cold house. Getting an Echo soon and possible a Google Home in the new year and I know Nest works well with that for controlling. Also good wifi in the house and existing timer is in the kitchen along with boiler would that be an issue

    Looking for people s opinions before I decide

    Thanks

    https://www.dublinarsenal.com/



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    #2
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'd be careful of the deals that offer "free" thermostats. They often come with relatively high per unit electricity charges.

    When I looked into these deals a few months ago, I worked out that given my energy usage, I would actually pay more for one of these deals, then simply going for the best electricity deal on the market and buying the thermostat separately myself.

    Of course this can differ from person to person depending on their energy usage, but buyer beware.

    You should also consider Netatmo, it seems to be one of the most popular options in Ireland and it is very cheap. I have it myself and I'm extremely happy with it, works very well.

    Nest is the only one that currently works with Google Home. But that is because GH has just launched and they haven't opened up their API to third parties until December (note Nest is owned by Google). Once they open up the API, I expect, Netatmo, etc. will add support.

    Netatmo currently works fine with both Amazon Echo and Apple Siri (note you need the newer Netatmo model for Siri support).

    Nest works with Google Home and Amazon Echo (but not Siri, at least officially).


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    #3
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Climote would probably be my last choice. It doesn't integrate with much (anything??) and it requires a SIM card rather than a network/WiFi connection. Last time I looked the UI was designed to look like an old fashioned plastic notch based time-clock which I thought bizarre even then.

    We have Nest and Hive, if I had to pick again I'd go for Hive.

    The Nest learning function was spectacularly useless for us, imagine having a monkey randomly pressing the boost button on your heating and that would be similar to our experience. It has been pointed out that were using the previous model Nest so maybe the new one has improved. It looks pretty though and the presence detection using your mobile phone has improved significantly. I must admit I don't have much faith in Nest as a company at the moment, they've been in the wilderness for a few years now. New products taking for ever to get launched.

    Hive has really pleasantly surprised me, doubly so given it's a British Gas product. It's performing well, looks great and (with the exception of the iPad app) the UI is really well thought out. It also works with Echo, Apple HomeKit is under consideration, not sure about Google Home yet.


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    #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Graham wrote: »
    It also works with Echo, Apple HomeKit is under consideration, not sure about Google Home yet.

    Just FYI it will need new hardware to get Apple Homekit support. Homekit requires a special dedicated chip. This is why both Philips Hue and Netatmo had to bring out new hardware (hub and thermostat) in order to gain Apple Homekit support.


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    #5
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bk wrote: »
    Just FYI it will need new hardware to get Apple Homekit support. Homekit requires a special dedicated chip. This is why both Philips Hue and Netatmo had to bring out new hardware (hub and thermostat) in order to gain Apple Homekit support.

    Like the Hue, it should just be the hub that needs replacing. Hive have made no official announcement other than a suggestion they're looking into home kit support.


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    #6
    Irish Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Irish Gunner


    bk wrote: »
    I'd be careful of the deals that offer "free" thermostats. They often come with relatively high per unit electricity charges.

    When I looked into these deals a few months ago, I worked out that given my energy usage, I would actually pay more for one of these deals, then simply going for the best electricity deal on the market and buying the thermostat separately myself.

    Of course this can differ from person to person depending on their energy usage, but buyer beware.

    You should also consider Netatmo, it seems to be one of the most popular options in Ireland and it is very cheap. I have it myself and I'm extremely happy with it, works very well.

    Nest is the only one that currently works with Google Home. But that is because GH has just launched and they haven't opened up their API to third parties until December (note Nest is owned by Google). Once they open up the API, I expect, Netatmo, etc. will add support.

    Netatmo currently works fine with both Amazon Echo and Apple Siri (note you need the newer Netatmo model for Siri support).

    Nest works with Google Home and Amazon Echo (but not Siri, at least officially).
    Thanks for this never knew Climote required a SIM so think that's out of the options now
    Never knew about Netatmo so I see Energia offer that so may look into this. Heating bills not that big as not a mansion I live in and only 2 of us. Its more just to have the option of controlling it remotely rather than working late and coming home to a cold house

    https://www.dublinarsenal.com/



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    #7
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Irish Gunner wrote: »
    Never knew about Netatmo so I see Energia offer that so may look into this. Heating bills not that big as not a mansion I live in and only 2 of us. Its more just to have the option of controlling it remotely rather than working late and coming home to a cold house

    Mine isn't either, just a modern two bedroom apartment, yet it was still cheaper to get the thermostat separately! Specially if you go for a Netatmo which can be gotten for just €100 and potentially installed yourself depending on your boiler wiring.

    BTW your usage is exactly the same as how I use my Netatmo. I turn it on just as I leave the office to come home to a nice warm house and I'm very happy with it.


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    #8
    lolliedog
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lolliedog


    Mine isn't either, just a modern two bedroom apartment, yet it was still cheaper to get the thermostat separately! Specially if you go for a Netatmo which can be gotten for just €100 and potentially installed yourself depending on your boiler wiring.


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    #9
    lolliedog
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lolliedog


    (Mine isn't either, just a modern two bedroom apartment, yet it was still cheaper to get the thermostat separately! Specially if you go for a Netatmo which can be gotten for just €100 and potentially installed yourself depending on your boiler wiring.)...

    I have been looking for a netatmo for my mothers house. The deal on bargain alerts is out of stock. Where can I get one for €100.


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    #10
    Irish Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Irish Gunner


    bk wrote: »
    Irish Gunner wrote: »
    Never knew about Netatmo so I see Energia offer that so may look into this. Heating bills not that big as not a mansion I live in and only 2 of us. Its more just to have the option of controlling it remotely rather than working late and coming home to a cold house

    Mine isn't either, just a modern two bedroom apartment, yet it was still cheaper to get the thermostat separately! Specially if you go for a Netatmo which can be gotten for just 100 and potentially installed yourself depending on your boiler wiring.

    BTW your usage is exactly the same as how I use my Netatmo. I turn it on just as I leave the office to come home to a nice warm house and I'm very happy with it.

    Cheers

    Yes I rang Energia and to get boiler serviced and Netatmo installed is 85. They come service the boiler and then second person installs the Netatmo. I checked on Netatmo and seems it will work just need to check model of my boiler. Also boiler and old timer clock are in the kitchen in a long closet and obviously the clock will be replaced but not sure if the wifi will reach here? I thought that they could put something here and then a another device possible in the living room where I could control it or use Echo to control it???

    Where was yours installed ?

    https://www.dublinarsenal.com/



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    #11
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    I just literally had the Nest installed this morning. Looks a class piece of kit, though still playing around with it. I looked into most of the popular ones before deciding on Nest. I have 3 zones - upstairs, downstairs and hot water, no thermostats .What I found I'll list below:

    1) Netatmo - Can't find an installer for it. I felt I was taking a chance expecting the Energia installer to install the second one as well, so I asked Energia. First answer - no, you can't have 2 Netatmos. I pointed out that the Netatmo website said you could. (Website can be an exercise in futility at times). They were to call me back over a month ago..........
    2) Hive - only installed by Bord Gais - Definitely don't install for multiple zones yet. You can buy a second one from Amazon, but I read some people had a problem because the units are coded to British Gas?
    3)Climote - Yearly charge to access from outside the house?? Good luck with that.
    4) Nest - everything is very....polished. Website is easy to use. More expensive certainly (The stands are €40 each!!!), but very solid, the app looks good. Who used to do the advert years ago "Reassuringly expensive"? They feel a bit like that:D €100 including installation from Electric Ireland. €249 for a second one direct from Nest, although apparently EI will do a second one installed for €279?


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    #12
    pm1977x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭pm1977x


    Recently got a Hive 2, similar to previous poster I had no interest in a 'learning' thermostat like Nest, just wanted to add the option of only having the water on and the functionality of the app.

    Very happy with it so far, app is very simple to use and scheduling is a piece of cake. You can also add other smart items which will all run off the app, limited use at the moment (bulbs/door sensors/motion sensors/plug socket) but seems to be growing.

    I had some distance from WiFi issues so needed to plug the Hive Hub into a range extender but I had that already so no extra outlay.

    You have to order through Bord Gais and they will come install it but don't have to be a customer with them. Costs a lot more than the Netatmo though so worth keeping that in mind - €299 or €350 with boiler service.


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    #13
    Tom Cruises Left Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Tom Cruises Left Nut


    lolliedog wrote: »
    (Mine isn't either, just a modern two bedroom apartment, yet it was still cheaper to get the thermostat separately! Specially if you go for a Netatmo which can be gotten for just €100 and potentially installed yourself depending on your boiler wiring.)...

    I have been looking for a netatmo for my mothers house. The deal on bargain alerts is out of stock. Where can I get one for €100.

    If you want an AMazon Echo dot you can get the 2 in a bundle, 148 pounds for both


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    #14
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    lolliedog wrote: »
    I have been looking for a netatmo for my mothers house. The deal on bargain alerts is out of stock. Where can I get one for €100.

    Sorry I didn't realise it was out of stock!

    As Tom Cruises Left Nut mentions, I actually got the bundle on Amazon of the Netatmo Thermostat and an Echo Dot for £150. Given that I was going to get a Dot anyway, that effectively made it £100 for the thermostat for me.

    It also had the advantage that it included the new model of the Thermostat that supports Apple Homekit rather then the old model in the €99 deal.
    Irish Gunner wrote: »
    Also boiler and old timer clock are in the kitchen in a long closet and obviously the clock will be replaced but not sure if the wifi will reach here? I thought that they could put something here and then a another device possible in the living room where I could control it or use Echo to control it???[/font]

    Netatmo comes with both a Thermostat unit and a wireless relay.

    You can either wire the Thermostat unit directly to where your existing clock is or probably a better option for you is wire the relay where the clock currently use and use the Thermostat unit wirelessly (in the hall or living room, it runs off battery power).

    Once set up, you can use Amazon Echo from any room to control it with voice or the app on your phone.


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    #15
    lolliedog
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lolliedog


    Tom Cruises Left Nut wrote: »
    If you want an AMazon Echo dot you can get the 2 in a bundle, 148 pounds for both

    Do you have a link to that offer. Will I need a parcel motel account? I don't have one. Must set something up. Any advice in the best one to set up?


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    #16
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The an post one is really quick and they don't seem to charge for oversize stuff, it's free to set up and you don't need to have money in an account just pop into post office and pay your 3.50 when collecting it.
    They send you out a little card with the address on it which is handy.

    https://addresspal.anpost.ie


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    #17
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    lolliedog wrote: »
    Do you have a link to that offer. Will I need a parcel motel account? I don't have one. Must set something up. Any advice in the best one to set up?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LW958A0/ref=twister_B01KPA94ME?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

    And yes you will need to use Parcel Motel or Parcel Wizard, easy to setup and use.


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    #18
    THE ALM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Morning all,

    Have been following this thread and others similar and sorry for butting in on the OP.

    I hope somebody can tell me if the likes of Hive etc are compatible with our system as we are looking to get a bit more control and efficiency from it.

    We currently have a warmflow whitebird 70/90 oil fired boiler controlled with a immermat flash timer, no thermostats, so a simple on/off timer which does both the heat and hot water.

    Looking at the Netatmo website it would appear that it is not compatible, can't find anything on other websites stating if it will work or not. My thinking is that we would be replacing the timer with the likes of the Hive relay which would then be linked to the thermostat and controlled via the app etc.

    Thanks for any advice.


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    #19
    hick
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭hick


    Hi all,

    Looking at the discounts on amazon this morning so thinking about what to get for our new house. We're about to start 2nd fix in 2 weeks time.

    We will have a panosonic air source heat pump with 3 zones upstairs downstairs water.

    No gas or oil just leccy so haven't decided on any provider yet.

    Wondering which is the best option looks like hive??
    I like the Nest but costs rack up very quickly and I don't know enough about Netamo.

    Can any sparks install the Hive (when I say any I mean not just from leccy suppliers) and does it do 3 zones?


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    #20
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    hick wrote: »
    Can any sparks install the Hive (when I say any I mean not just from leccy suppliers) and does it do 3 zones?

    Any sparks should be able, the connections are pretty much the same as a non-smart controller. Should be even easier to be honest as there's no wired thermostats. You may find an old-school sparks that is uncomfortable just because its unfamiliar but other than that you shouldn't have an issue.

    You'd need the "Hive 2 Heat and Water" and the "Hive Multizone" (for the 3rd zone). All were on special from Amazon last night. That's the exact setup we have.


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    #21
    THE ALM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Have just ordered the Hive 2 with hot water off Amazon, good price at £125 with free delivery.

    Can't actually use it as yet as we have to add a couple of zone valves etc to the heating system but should be good to go after that.

    This IOT forum is going to cost me a lot of money I feel!!!!


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    #22
    lolliedog
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lolliedog


    THE ALM wrote: »
    Have just ordered the Hive 2 with hot water off Amazon, good price at £125 with free delivery.

    Can't actually use it as yet as we have to add a couple of zone valves etc to the heating system but should be good to go after that.

    This IOT forum is going to cost me a lot of money I feel!!!!


    Could it not work with your current set up and just wire in the zone valves later on when they are installed.

    I'm in the same boat and was going to order the hive.

    That's what I am hoping anyway.


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    #23
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    THE ALM wrote: »
    This IOT forum is going to cost me a lot of money I feel!!!!

    Not at all, if you purchased from Amazon today you already saved at least £25 :D


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    #24
    THE ALM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    Graham wrote: »
    Not at all, if you purchased from Amazon today you already saved at least £25 :D

    Add the €175 saved on Withings and I am on to a winner:rolleyes:


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    #25
    hick
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭hick


    is there an ongoing charge for nest or hive? i.e. sub for remote access


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    #26
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    hick wrote: »
    is there an ongoing charge for nest or hive? i.e. sub for remote access

    Not unless you want to avail of additional services.

    For Nest that's mostly for the Nest Cameras
    For Hive it looks more like a maintenance and support offering

    Neither are necessary for heat/water control or remote access.


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    #27
    THE ALM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭THE ALM


    lolliedog wrote: »
    Could it not work with your current set up and just wire in the zone valves later on when they are installed.

    I'm in the same boat and was going to order the hive.

    That's what I am hoping anyway.

    looliedog, this was my thinking and why I have ordered as I know one way or the other it will be used.

    I am trying to sketch/work out how the wiring would go as we currently have two separate pumps for the heating and hot water.

    If I look at the wiring diagram for the dual channel receiver then my thinking would be, or not as the case may be, that the live and neutral come in, the L & N from the heating pump would be connected to 2 & 4 and the hot water L & N would be connected to 1 & 3. I would have to split the boiler L & N in two and have one each going to 1,2,3 & 4 so that when either the heating or hot water come on then so does the boiler.

    I am a bit sceptical that this is the way that it will work.


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    #28
    PVF
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭PVF


    bk wrote:
    Netatmo Thermostat £99

    Hi..Do you have to pay a monthly fee for the netatmo after you get it with energia.?


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    #29
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    PVF wrote: »
    Hi..Do you have to pay a monthly fee for the netatmo after you get it with energia.?

    Loads of discussion on the Netatmo thread which might help:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057652391

    (sorry don't know the answer to your question)


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    #30
    hick
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭hick


    Anybody using TRV's along with any of their systems, can't see any integrated options
    so for this I like the Evohome honeywell


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    #31
    lolliedog
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lolliedog


    THE ALM wrote: »
    looliedog, this was my thinking and why I have ordered as I know one way or the other it will be used.

    I am trying to sketch/work out how the wiring would go as we currently have two separate pumps for the heating and hot water.

    If I look at the wiring diagram for the dual channel receiver then my thinking would be, or not as the case may be, that the live and neutral come in, the L & N from the heating pump would be connected to 2 & 4 and the hot water L & N would be connected to 1 & 3. I would have to split the boiler L & N in two and have one each going to 1,2,3 & 4 so that when either the heating or hot water come on then so does the boiler.

    I am a bit sceptical that this is the way that it will work.

    I'm no expert but my understanding is that the live and neutral in 1 & 2 will stay the same. It is power to the panel. The other connection need an input to energise/switch ( i.e turning on the heating.) I think it should work you just can't wire the zone valve until it is installed.


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