Builder question

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 2:39am #1

Building a house with a builder at present under a contract. Contract is 12 months for house to be built and be in. However I am 3 months over this deadline now and have about another 3 months to go before i am anywhere near ready to be able to move in. This also includes the 8 weeks of covid lockdown. Would I be entitled to any compensation from builders for this delay? House wasn't cheap as it is but we were expecting to be in well in within the 12 month time frame.

Gumbo · 29-09-2020 7:57am

What does the contract say?
Who is the contract administrator?

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:08am

Gumbo wrote: »

What does the contract say?
Who is the contract administrator?

12 months.

Builder issued the contract agreement which was signed by us. If the contract says 12 months then if the time frame goes outside this can that be then seen as a breach of contract? Would I be correct in saying?

The same i think would apply to me by builder if i wasnt keeping up the stage payments. I be in breach of the contracts terms and conditions.

Calahonda52 · 29-09-2020 8:54am

What remedies are in the contract for not being done in 12 months.
My guess is if he drew it up there are none

muffler · 29-09-2020 9:22am

Amprodude wrote: »

Builder issued the contract agreement which was signed by us.

Big mistake on your part.

You haven't read the document in detail as you are asking the question here. You need to read it now and see what if any penalties are applicable in this instance.

Meathman12 · 29-09-2020 9:32am

Have you tried to speak to the builder to get an understanding why there's a delay?

Gumbo · 29-09-2020 9:36am

Amprodude wrote: »

12 months.

Builder issued the contract agreement which was signed by us. If the contract says 12 months then if the time frame goes outside this can that be then seen as a breach of contract? Would I be correct in saying?

The same i think would apply to me by builder if i wasnt keeping up the stage payments. I be in breach of the contracts terms and conditions.

God knows what the builder put in the contract then.
Check the section for penalties and time delay.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 4:19pm

Gumbo wrote: »

God knows what the builder put in the contract then.
Check the section for penalties and time delay.

There is no section on this. A signed contract is something that i thought has to be abided by both parties? Otherwise does it become null and void?

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 4:22pm

If the contract isn't abided by the builder athen i dont have to abide by it either and not pay up full amount at the end, i can assume.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 4:24pm

muffler wrote: »

Big mistake on your part.

You haven't read the document in detail as you are asking the question here. You need to read it now and see what if any penalties are applicable in this instance.

How?

What could i have done different?

muffler · 29-09-2020 4:30pm

Amprodude wrote: »

How?

What could i have done different?

Got your own contract drawn up and had the builder sign it.

Did you take the builders contract to your solicitor (or architect) and get a qualified opinion on it?

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 4:33pm

muffler wrote: »

Got your own contract drawn up and had the builder sign it.

Did you take the builders contract to your solicitor (or architect) and get a qualified opinion on it?

How could one have done that may I ask?

I took the contract to my solicitor and architect/engineer before signing.

Wildly Boaring · 29-09-2020 4:33pm

Amprodude wrote: »

If the contract isn't abided by the builder athen i dont have to abide by it either and not pay up full amount at the end, i can assume.

Would not be a great assumption

Gumbo · 29-09-2020 4:36pm

Amprodude wrote: »

If the contract isn't abided by the builder athen i dont have to abide by it either and not pay up full amount at the end, i can assume.

I think assumption is what has you in their position in the first place.

Sit down with the holder and chat. Have a professional independent sit in the middle and agree a plan going forward.

The contract should have been administered by your architect or design professional that you engages for inspection and certification prior to works starting. Not the builder.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 5:59pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Would not be a great assumption

Can you elaborate on this.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 6:08pm

Gumbo wrote: »

I think assumption is what has you in their position in the first place.

Sit down with the holder and chat. Have a professional independent sit in the middle and agree a plan going forward.

The contract should have been administered by your architect or design professional that you engages for inspection and certification prior to works starting. Not the builder.

My Architect/engineer inspects and signs off.

dubrov · 29-09-2020 6:59pm

My architect suggested using the RIAI contact which favours the client over the builder. It has a fixed penalty per week for lateness, about 900 I think.

Apparently they are very difficult to enforce as the builder will argue the delays were outside their control (Covid, weather, waiting on decisions from client etc.)

I think you have very little chance of getting compensation for 6 months late

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 7:18pm

dubrov wrote: »

My architect suggested using the RIAI contact which favours the client over the builder. It has a fixed penalty per week for lateness, about 900 I think.

Apparently they are very difficult to enforce as the builder will argue the delays were outside their control (Covid, weather, waiting on decisions from client etc.)

I think you have very little chance of getting compensation for 6 months late

What happens if you don't pay full cost at the end of build? Could argue due to lateness?

dubrov · 29-09-2020 8:06pm

All I know is my architect said he'd never heard of anyone successfully enforcing late penalties. In saying that though he did say one of his clients had recently started legal proceedings but I believe the build was over 2 years late.

I'd make sure all work is complete and certificates have been provided before trying to avoid payment

This is it · 29-09-2020 8:16pm

Did you sit down and discuss the issues with the builder first? Should be your first port of call rather than trying to get out of paying him.

muffler · 29-09-2020 8:22pm

Amprodude wrote: »

What happens if you don't pay full cost at the end of build?

You're going round in circles here. Have you read the contract as advised earlier? That point should be covered.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:24pm

dubrov wrote: »

All I know is my architect said he'd never heard of anyone successfully enforcing late penalties. In saying that though he did say one of his clients had recently started legal proceedings but I believe the build was over 2 years late.

I'd make sure all work is complete and certificates have been provided before trying to avoid payment

I have no problem paying but i do have an issue with the project being nearly 6 months late when i have to pay rent in another house to stay there until we can move in. Builder is taking their time on the project that's for sure while annoys me when there an agreement signed that build be complete in 12 months.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:26pm

muffler wrote: »

You're going round in circles here. Have you read the contract as advised earlier? That point should be covered.

I have and you are correct

It also says that the build to be completed within 12 months of start date. I find it impossible to see how one can get out of that if it states that in contract

Just asking the question.

Meathman12 · 29-09-2020 8:31pm

Amprodude wrote: »

I have.

It also says that the build to be completed within 12 months of start date.

Is there mention of penalties for you not paying for the work done?

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:31pm

This is it wrote: »

Did you sit down and discuss the issues with the builder first? Should be your first port of call rather than trying to get out of paying him.

Many times but schedules get always changed by them in due course which adds to my frustration.

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:33pm

Meathman12 wrote: »

Is there mention of penalties for you not paying for the work done?

None.

Meathman12 · 29-09-2020 8:33pm

Is there mention of a retention of payment upon completion?

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:35pm

Meathman12 wrote: »

Is there mention of a retention of payment upon completion?

It says the employer to pay for all completed work.

chunkylover4 · 29-09-2020 8:36pm

The contract is needed to assess any potential remedy. If there is no mechanism for delay your solicitor can advise you on what you could recover but obviously that's a bad idea to pursue if the work is ongoing.

Ginger83 · 29-09-2020 8:38pm

Tell your builder you need to start deducting the cost of your rent from his bill due to the build being late. That will get him moving

Amprodude · 29-09-2020 8:40pm

chunkylover4 wrote: »

The contract is needed to assess any potential remedy. If there is no mechanism for delay your solicitor can advise you on what you could recover but obviously that's a bad idea to pursue if the work is ongoing.

The builder promised I be in for 12 months. Word of mouth means nothing now. Il wait until the house is complete and decide on a course of action then.

Calahonda52 · 29-09-2020 8:40pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Tell your builder you need to start deducting the cost of your rent from his bill due to the build being late. That will get him moving

Not if it not in the contract.

chunkylover4 · 29-09-2020 8:42pm

Amprodude wrote: »

The builder promised I be in for 12 months. Word of mouth means nothing now. Il wait until the house is complete and decide on a course of action then.

As above you could mention to him that you are paying rent etc which would be recoverable. I agree best to wait but no harm getting advice now. Other problems might arrive after move in which might make the return of the builder necessary or at least more cost effective.

chunkylover4 · 29-09-2020 8:43pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Not if it not in the contract.

You can't deduct rent but you could in theory sue him to recover it.

Wildly Boaring · 29-09-2020 9:14pm

Amprodude wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this.

Ok

You haven't a leg to stand on.

There's no penalty in the contract for late delivery.

The contact was drawn up by the contractor.
You've signed it.
He has carried out substantial works (ie continued to fulfill the contact)

It will state that you pay for any work done.

Don't do that
1. You'll find the job is just not finished enough to move it. And nobody will finish it or
2. Find yourself in front of the wig.

Even if there were LD provisions in the contract.....

There are any number of reasons for late delivery.
In 2020 he has Covid.
There is an immenent Brexit.

Did you change ANYTHING?
Did you get a Proposal for that Change, with associated additional days?

muffler · 29-09-2020 10:41pm

Amprodude wrote: »

The builder promised I be in for 12 months. Word of mouth means nothing now.

We're finally seeing a bit of detail emerge now. The builder gave you his verbal word together with a written contract with no mention of penalties for run over (cant blame him tbh) which you agreed to. You say your solicitor and architect both give it the nod but I find that a bit odd. In saying that it is very very difficult to enforce any penalty clause as builders have a raft (no pun intended

) of reasons that can get them out of any such penalties.

I know its very frustrating but Id suggest you try to work with the builder here as opposed to against him

Amprodude wrote: »

Il wait until the house is complete and decide on a course of action then.

As above, talk to him and use an independent mediator if necessary

Amprodude · 30-09-2020 2:52am

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Ok

You haven't a leg to stand on.

There's no penalty in the contract for late delivery.

The contact was drawn up by the contractor.
You've signed it.
He has carried out substantial works (ie continued to fulfill the contact)

It will state that you pay for any work done.

Don't do that
1. You'll find the job is just not finished enough to move it. And nobody will finish it or
2. Find yourself in front of the wig.

Even if there were LD provisions in the contract.....

There are any number of reasons for late delivery.
In 2020 he has Covid.
There is an immenent Brexit.

Did you change ANYTHING?
Did you get a Proposal for that Change, with associated additional days?

So 12 months finish time means nothing in a contract?

Its in control of the builder but surely he would have to be close to fulfilling that agreement as its on a document? There is no terms and conditions attached to the 12 month time frame in contract which then would cover covid.

Wildly Boaring · 30-09-2020 8:16am

If there's no penalty to the 12 month build duration. You've no clause of the contract to enforce when he is late. Worse you don't even have the threat of same.

Hindsight is 20 20.
In any walk of life if you blindly sign a contract that the other side draws up you expect it to be weighted in their favour.

You want a house in a specific timeframe. You engage a professional to draw up contacts and have the builder sign.

Even at that late deliveries are very difficult to action.
Especially in a year with Covid.

You now need to work with your builder or you now need to hound your builder.
Either be his best mate or the biggest thorn in his side.
Don't be the quiet client who he can leave on the back burner

Either way you need a programme to completion. Monitored by your side. And achievable.

salmocab · 30-09-2020 8:25am

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

If there's no penalty to the 12 month build duration. You've no clause of the contract to enforce when he is late. Worse you don't even have the threat of same.

Hindsight is 20 20.
In any walk of life if you blindly sign a contract that the other side draws up you expect it to be weighted in their favour.

You want a house in a specific timeframe. You engage a professional to draw up contacts and have the builder sign.

Even at that late deliveries are very difficult to action.
Especially in a year with Covid.

You now need to work with your builder or you now need to hound your builder.
Either be his best mate or the biggest thorn in his side.
Don't be the quiet client who he can leave on the back burner

Either way you need a programme to completion. Monitored by your side. And achievable.

This is good advice I think, not paying him won’t work out for you, he has plenty of reasons why it’s not done, Covid shutdown, issues getting material after the reopening, any changes you made to the original plan at all can be used.
I’d put the he broke the contract bit out of your head it won’t matter. I would make it clear to him he’s costing you money in rental and you need him to get finished.

Builder question

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