HLI for Heat Pump Grant

JonMac · 09-09-2020 4:52pm #1

I've just had a heat pump installed.
The SEAI Technical Assessment Form says that the grant will be declined if the HLI is greater than 2.
My SEAI approved Technical Assessor says: "The HLI target of 2 is for 2 Storey properties. The HLI target for single storey properties is 2.3."
He gave me 2.2 for our single storey building.
Is he correct?

sydthebeat · 09-09-2020 5:26pm

JonMac wrote: »

I've just had a heat pump installed.
The SEAI Technical Assessment Form says that the grant will be declined if the HLI is greater than 2.
My SEAI approved Technical Assessor says: "The HLI target of 2 is for 2 Storey properties. The HLI target for single storey properties is 2.3."
He gave me 2.2 for our single storey building.
Is he correct?

nothing to do with whether the house is 2 storey or single storey...

but 2.3 is acceptable where:

Where the HLI is between 2 and 2.3 W/K m2, in some cases it may not be economically feasible to upgrade the home further. An HLI ≤ 2.3 can be accepted where the following requirements are met:
• Maximum exposed wall U-value 0.37 W/m2K
• Maximum roof U-value 0.16 W/m2K or 0.25 W/m2K where not accessible (e.g. flat roof or rafters)
• Maximum Window U value 2.8 W/m2K* (and double glazed)
• Maximum Adjusted Infiltration Rate of 0.5 ac/h

*Note the Cost Optimal Window performance is 1.4 W/m2K, however a value of 2.8 W/m2K recognises that it may not be economically feasible to upgrade windows.
Where the HLI is between 2 and 2.3 W/k m2, the homeowner should be advised that the cost savings may not be significant, depending on the fuel and efficiency of the current heating system

JonMac · 10-09-2020 9:05am

Thanks for your reply. I have to say I am dubious about this assessor.
My HLI is better than the 2.22 he reported. He refused to acknowledge the photos showing the 100mm of Xtratherm that my building put under the slab.
He reported the floor as U-value 0.34; I've tried 4 online calculators and they come back with 0.13/0.14/0.15.
I don't know whether I should inform SEAI or not.

Biker1 · 10-09-2020 10:08am

Due to SEAI's rigid policy of proof for all inputs into DEAP it would appear that the assessor used the default u-value. A photograph alone is not regarded as sufficient evidence, it has to be accompanied by a signed statement from the engineer/architect or builder stating the exact manufacturer, type and thickness of insulation used.

JonMac · 10-09-2020 11:20am

He could have asked. My builder would have been happy to provide it.
Can the TA accept the architects drawings where he specifies floor and wall insulation?
If no, as it is impossible to see whether there is insulation under the slab, that implies that all BERs for recent houses are understating the efficiency.

Biker1 · 12-09-2020 9:08am

As well as the drawings the architect would have to provide a cover letter stating that the insulation product was used as well as stating his role in the project.

JonMac · 12-09-2020 12:31pm

BERs are being understated then.
My house, which we had built, is timber frame construction with 150mm insulation between the studs. He wouldn't accept that as he couldn't see it. On his second visit I showed him the insulation where the boiler flue had been removed; don't know if he accepted that.
You try hard to build an energy efficient house and get no credit.

Biker1 · 12-09-2020 1:55pm

Again it's all down to definitive proof of the actual build-up of fabric elements. While SEAI are anal on this I'm sure you can understand that if they were not then there would be pressure on assessors to give a better rating.

JonMac · 12-09-2020 5:34pm

I understand completely.
They could at least tell us to us to prepare "signed statement from the engineer/architect or builder stating the exact manufacturer, type and thickness of insulation used."

Biker1 · 13-09-2020 9:50am

From past experiences I found it extremely difficult to get an engineer/architect to provide this evidence for new builds and impossible for older houses. That is probably why the assessor went with default's so he could get the job done and get paid.

JonMac · 13-09-2020 10:14am

Understood. My builder lives 500m away and is still building 2 or 3 homes a year. It would be very straightforward. I showed him the photos last month and he said "the code was 100mm at that time."

sydthebeat · 13-09-2020 8:46pm

just a small example of what a BER assessor is required to give as proof if a non default U Value is used in an assessment

a signed letter from the certifying architect / engineer confirm the exact manufacturer and product used in the construction AND the certified mathematical calculations from THAT architect / engineer showing the calculated U Value.

more often than not the certifying architect / engineer wont give these, as its extra work for no reward.

The best course of action if you are building new is to get an assessor in before you build to work out the u value calculations AND to specify a product to meet these values. Then get the certifying architect / engineer (or client!) to photograph and measure the product on installation in the build... so that there is evidence for the BER assessor when they come out to do the final BER on completion.

as an assessor, if we cannot see it and measure it, we cannot include it !!!

we cannot take the word of the certifier that its installed, without THEIR own calculations.... signed off

JonMac · 15-09-2020 7:08am

Thank you for the information.
It doesn't help with retrofit grants!

sydthebeat · 15-09-2020 10:00am

JonMac wrote: »

Thank you for the information.
It doesn't help with retrofit grants!

but doesnt your house comply with the requirement???

its under 2.3

JonMac · 15-09-2020 4:45pm

Thanks to your information I hope it is OK; guess I'll have to wait to hear from SEAI. I'll let you know.
By the way, are the requirements as stringent for a BER when one is selling a house?

sydthebeat · 21-09-2020 4:22pm

JonMac wrote: »

Thanks to your information I hope it is OK; guess I'll have to wait to hear from SEAI. I'll let you know.
By the way, are the requirements as stringent for a BER when one is selling a house?

im not sure of your question??

are you asking if the burden of proof on the assessor is the same for a published BER cert??

if so the answer is yes absolutely

JonMac · 21-09-2020 4:43pm

So all BER certs understate the efficiency of a recent house with insulation under the floor slab... .

sydthebeat · 21-09-2020 7:32pm

JonMac wrote: »

So all BER certs understate the efficiency of a recent house with insulation under the floor slab... .

id you have a BER cert published on your house???

or did you just get a technical assessment done to see if it hit the mark for a heat pump grant application?

JonMac · 22-09-2020 10:37am

I've completed everything my end for the heat pump grant. SEAI is reviewing the documents to decide if they will pay the grant.
My revised BER was a B2

JonMac · 29-09-2020 5:17pm

Just heard SEAI approved the grant.

HLI for Heat Pump Grant

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