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Wife moving to Brussels

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  • 20-06-2021 8:51pm
    #1
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    I will get some professional advice, but in the mean time could anyone give me the broad strokes of the wife being employed in Belgium and working in Ireland, then relocating in a couple of months. We have a rental property and avail of the Rent a room scheme. I'll be staying put Monday to Friday at least.

    I'm particularly interested in the ramifications on income tax on the rental property given the main earner is now not earning income in Ireland.

    Thanks in advance for any advice on the benefits or pitfalls.


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    #2
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    We have a rental property and avail of the Rent a room scheme.

    Can you clarify this bit - is there two properties involved here, or one?


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    #3
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Wife moving to Brussels

    you-lucky-lucky-bastard.jpg


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    #4
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    What's a couple of months? Less than 6? It sounds like she may remain tax resident in Ireland if that's the case. Not sure the implication for social security (PRSI) from the the companies side, but that's probably not going to impact on any of the questions you're asking. Again if it's less than 6 months I think it would be the same as if you are both still fully resident in Ireland. Needless to say, I'm not a tax advisor.


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    #5
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Thanks for the replies :)

    Two properties, one apartment that we rent out and pay tax on. Rooms we rent out in our main house and declare but remain under the 14K limit.

    Wife is being paid as if she's in Brussels from day one, but will remain here until September. She'll then move to Brussels for ten months.


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    #6
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭dennyk


    As long as she's still living here, she'd still be considered tax resident in Ireland and her income would be taxed here, even if she's "being paid as if she's in Brussels". This page from Revenue has a good overview of tax residence. This page has some information about how income from working abroad temporarily while remaining resident in Ireland is treated (which might be the case if she's only abroad for ~6 months next year, depending on the exact timing of her return).

    As long as you remain resident in Ireland and your PPR is your house here, you should be able to continue under the Rent-a-Room scheme as usual. Even if you're visiting Brussels on the weekends, if you're living here through the rest of the week, I doubt there would be any dispute that your house is no longer your PPR. It would no longer be your wife's PPR, though, so that could possibly affect matters depending on how you are filing (separate assessment vs. joint assessment).

    Overall, it would probably be a good idea to consult with an accountant to figure out the best approach to take regarding your taxes, to minimise your liabilities and ensure you don't run into any "gotchas" that will leave you with a big tax bill and/or an unhappy Revenue auditor knocking on your proverbial door.


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    #7
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Thanks Dennyk. They're going to tax her in Belgium as well, is there some way to avoid the double taxation?


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    #8
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭dennyk


    She shouldn't be paying any tax in Belgium unless she is resident there. Once she is resident there, there are various approaches to avoid double taxation; she could claim split-year treatment in her year of departure, for example, or if she will actually be remaining tax-resident in Ireland due to the short length of her time abroad, she should be able to avail of relief under the tax treaty between Ireland and Belgium to avoid double taxation. An accountant will be able to recommend the best options for her based on her exact circumstances.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    check CGT in Belguim. YOu might be able to liquidate your investment property without GCT.


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    #10
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Deleted User wrote: »
    check CGT in Belguim. YOu might be able to liquidate your investment property without GCT.

    Sadly it was bought at the top of the boom and we'd still be taking a loss on it so (AFAIK) no CGT to be paid. Thanks for the idea though!


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Sadly it was bought at the top of the boom and we'd still be taking a loss on it so (AFAIK) no CGT to be paid. Thanks for the idea though!
    Shares then if she has them.


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    #12
    athlone573
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭athlone573


    There's a special EU tax if working for certain EU institutions long term, check it out.


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    #13
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭Tow


    athlone573 wrote: »
    There's a special EU tax if working for certain EU institutions long term, check it out.

    There were some very special tax rates, not sure if they are as good today :D

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #14
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    check CGT in Belguim. YOu might be able to liquidate your investment property without GCT.

    This ought to be good - how would this work??


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    barneystinson wrote: »
    This ought to be good - how would this work??
    The point is moot as the OP has clarified that they have no capital gain exposure. Any suggestions you can offer to the OP?


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    #16
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The point is moot as the OP has clarified that they have no capital gain exposure. Any suggestions you can offer to the OP?

    Well I certainly won't recommend selling Irish property and thinking they're not exposed to Irish CGT on it.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Well I certainly won't recommend selling Irish property and thinking they're not exposed to Irish CGT on it.
    You know less than you think you know.


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    #18
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You know less than you think you know.

    Ditto! ;)


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    #19
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,220 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    dennyk wrote: »
    She shouldn't be paying any tax in Belgium unless she is resident there. Once she is resident there, there are various approaches to avoid double taxation; she could claim split-year treatment in her year of departure, for example, or if she will actually be remaining tax-resident in Ireland due to the short length of her time abroad, she should be able to avail of relief under the tax treaty between Ireland and Belgium to avoid double taxation. An accountant will be able to recommend the best options for her based on her exact circumstances.

    Without prejudice to dennyk’s statements, Sam will need to consider a number of other things mostly as a result of it being Belgium. Is she going as part of an Irish governmental function, as a political appointment or as an employee or an officeholder of an international organisation based in Brussels? Or to be a director of a company? These factors can impinge on the general residence based taxation.

    Are ye jointly assessed? In general, that will not apply while she is non-resident. However, if she retains an interest in the income arising from the apartment (which you/she may not wish to do) then there might be some level of tax credits/rate bands under a practice Revenue refers to as aggregation. It has to be looked at year by year. It might be better, if you have a lower income, for you to be entitled to all of the apartment income if that’s a better result. Your wife would need to alienate the income in your favour before it arises. She would not have to dispose of her interest in the apartment (if any).


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    #20
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,220 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Ditto! ;)

    Ah now Barney, don’t be so harsh. He probably has a lovely scheme to envelope it on a tax free basis into a Malta company listed on the Cyprus stock exchange and then use the funds via the company. The professional fees will eat up all the capital but no tax will be paid!


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I find there are professionals who work on behalf of Revenue but bill their Customers and those who actually do work on behalf of their Customers.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Marcusm wrote: »
    but no tax will be paid!
    ...to the Irish Government and for some that would be gratification enough.


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    #23
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Without prejudice to dennyk’s statements, Sam will need to consider a number of other things mostly as a result of it being Belgium. Is she going as part of an Irish governmental function, as a political appointment or as an employee or an officeholder of an international organisation based in Brussels? Or to be a director of a company? These factors can impinge on the general residence based taxation.

    Are ye jointly assessed? In general, that will not apply while she is non-resident. However, if she retains an interest in the income arising from the apartment (which you/she may not wish to do) then there might be some level of tax credits/rate bands under a practice Revenue refers to as aggregation. It has to be looked at year by year. It might be better, if you have a lower income, for you to be entitled to all of the apartment income if that’s a better result. Your wife would need to alienate the income in your favour before it arises. She would not have to dispose of her interest in the apartment (if any).

    Sorry it has taken me so long to respond and Thank you very much for taking the time to post.

    She'll be working for a University network over there so I don't think she gets and special tax treatment. It does appear that they have taken her PPS number and not asked her for the Belgium equivalent so hopefully they will be charging Irish Tax.

    I believe we are jointly assessed. Although the Apartment always went down on myside of the return as I have the lower income. I'll look into things further.

    Thank you again for your input.


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    #24
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,220 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Sorry it has taken me so long to respond and Thank you very much for taking the time to post.

    She'll be working for a University network over there so I don't think she gets and special tax treatment. It does appear that they have taken her PPS number and not asked her for the Belgium equivalent so hopefully they will be charging Irish Tax.

    I believe we are jointly assessed. Although the Apartment always went down on myside of the return as I have the lower income. I'll look into things further.

    Thank you again for your input.

    She might still be subject to a special regime as third level educators have special arrangements too. I have cited art 20 of the DTA below. The effect of this, if it applies, would mean that her Belgium income would not be taxed in Ireland while she is “sojourn”ing there. I suspect that will accommodate any time she wishes to spend in Ireland after she has gone there rather than this interim period. I would be surprised (but often am) if the Belgian university is set up to do an Irish payroll for this interim period.

    With this category of employment, she will likely have to worry less about her residual Irish residence issues.

    Article 20 Professors, Teachers and Researchers
    An individual who sojourns in one of the Contracting States for a period not exceeding two years, for the purpose of teaching or carrying out advanced study or research in that State at a university, college, school or other educational establishment or at a research institute (operated without any profit motive) and who immediately prior to such sojourn was a resident of the other Contracting State, shall not be taxed in the first-mentioned State in respect of any payments which he receives for such activity.


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