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HKC upgrade

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  • 07-06-2019 8:49pm
    #1
    proteuspal
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭


    Hi-I have a hkc 1070 with built in gsm, professionally installed in my new build 3 years ago. Before I ask the original installer, or someone else if he’s not able to do it, I want to ask someone on here who would be in the know, just so I have a rough idea of cost. I’m looking to make two upgrades.

    1) I’m looking to replace one of the pir sensors with an RF pircam.
    2) I have a fire alarm in the kitchen, lounge and another on landing upstairs. These alarms are not integrated into hkc system.
    I’m not sure exactly what type each alarm is. But the one in kitchen is different to the other two - so I assume the kitchen one is a heat detector? Either way-what am I looking to do is upgrade all 3 alarms to ones which can be integrated into the hkc system so that I am notified if one goes off. I would be specifically looking to use alarms which are wired in with battery back up (which I currently have) and are interconnected, so if the kitchen alarm goes off that both other alarms go off at the same time.

    Can someone provide a rough idea of cost for these works ? I would say this job is relatively straightforward for the expert in that we are replacing existing apparatus which is already wired up.

    Thanks for any opinions. I just want to be clued up.

    Cheers


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    #2
    Diggerdunne
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Diggerdunne


    You are dealing with 2 different voltages.
    Your alarm is 12v dc and your smoke/heat detectors I assume are 240V ac
    To integrate into your alarm you would prob have to go wireless, others here can correct me or add to it...


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    #3
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭kub


    proteuspal wrote: »
    Hi-I have a hkc 1070 with built in gsm, professionally installed in my new build 3 years ago. Before I ask the original installer, or someone else if he’s not able to do it, I want to ask someone on here who would be in the know, just so I have a rough idea of cost. I’m looking to make two upgrades.

    1) I’m looking to replace one of the pir sensors with an RF pircam.
    2) I have a fire alarm in the kitchen, lounge and another on landing upstairs. These alarms are not integrated into hkc system.
    I’m not sure exactly what type each alarm is. But the one in kitchen is different to the other two - so I assume the kitchen one is a heat detector? Either way-what am I looking to do is upgrade all 3 alarms to ones which can be integrated into the hkc system so that I am notified if one goes off. I would be specifically looking to use alarms which are wired in with battery back up (which I currently have) and are interconnected, so if the kitchen alarm goes off that both other alarms go off at the same time.

    Can someone provide a rough idea of cost for these works ? I would say this job is relatively straightforward for the expert in that we are replacing existing apparatus which is already wired up.

    Thanks for any opinions. I just want to be clued up.

    Cheers


    1. Fitting a PIR Cam to a HKC 10/70 is no issue at all.


    2. Your fire detectors, what make are they?
    Some of these 220 volt manufacturers offer a solution here and that is a relay type base which is then compatible for connecting to other devices such as Intruder Alarm systems.
    i know that EI Electronics have one and it works perfectly with their own range of detectors.


    As regards costs, well we don't give out numbers here.


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    #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    On the fire alarms, why not just get Nest Protect Smoke alarms instead?

    They won't integrate with your alarm system, but they come with their own app and you'll get a notification on your phone if triggered.

    They are far more advanced then the fairly basic smoke alarms that you can install on a hkc system. The Nest smoke alarms supports the following features:
    - Detect both fast and slow burning fires (most smoke alarms only do one type).
    - Detect carbon monoxide
    - Interlinked, so if one alarm goes off, they all go off.
    - They self test themselves every 2 minutes and do a more detailed test once a month. You'll get a notification if anything wrong.
    - If they think the smoke is just burnt toast, they will announce it with a voice, rather then immediately going off, you can then silence it with the app, very handy.
    - They have an inbuilt night light that is handy.
    - They integrate with Nest and other smart products. For instance, if my Nest alarm goes off, all my Philips Hue smart lights will turn on and flash red.
    - They come in 220V, so would be a drop in replacement.

    I've got two Nest Protect smoke alarms and I'm very impressed with them.

    Only issue, they wouldn't replace the alarm in the kitchen as that is a heat alarm and Nest don't make one of those. What I'd do instead, is leave the heat alarm in place, but I'd also put a second Nest smoke alarm in the kitchen, either a battery one or a wired one if you can run an extra wire. But I'd place it maybe by the door to the kitchen, obviously not right by the cooker or toaster.


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    #5
    proteuspal
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭proteuspal


    Hi-they are quest and eclipse branded. They both say 220-240v

    Does that mean they are suitable for a simple swap to hkc ones?


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    #6
    proteuspal
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭proteuspal


    Wow, I’ve not heard of this before. I will do a bit more reading around on it. In fairness that does sound extremely detailed. Thanks for the kind information.


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    #7
    Argo foc yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Argo foc yourself


    Do HKC supply outdoor security cameras. I currently have a HKC alarm but I am interested in adding security cameras outside.


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    #8
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Argo foc yourself wrote: »
    Do HKC supply outdoor security cameras. I currently have a HKC alarm but I am interested in adding security cameras outside.

    No, they don't make outside cameras.

    Though I don't see much benefit (and lots of downsides) in combining a camera system into a security system. I think you are generally better off keeping the two separate IMO.

    A traditional CCTV system or one of the many IP cameras available should work for you.


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    #9
    Argo foc yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Argo foc yourself


    bk wrote: »
    No, they don't make outside cameras.

    Though I don't see much benefit (and lots of downsides) in combining a camera system into a security system. I think you are generally better off keeping the two separate IMO.

    A traditional CCTV system or one of the many IP cameras available should work for you.

    ok thanks. What are the downsides to combining? Are there any recommendations for standalone cameras?


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    #10
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Argo foc yourself wrote: »
    ok thanks. What are the downsides to combining? Are there any recommendations for standalone cameras?

    Fundamentally they do different things. An alarm system you arm and disarm, whilst cameras you normally want running 24/7 even if you are home and alarm is off.

    Some issues with integrated:
    - Any time you want to change or add to your camera system, if they are integrated, then you always need to get a certified security installer to do it.

    I feel there are loads of decent DIY camera options are out there. They aren't difficult to setup yourself, so that gives you more flexibility to change or expand the system later.

    - Having separate systems gives you a certain level of redundancy. What if the alarm system companies servers go down? By having them separate, at least you have the cameras as a backup or vice versa. If they are integrated, depending on how the integration works, it may mean if one goes down, they both do.

    But let me ask you, what do you think you would gain by having them integrated?

    I actually can't think of any benefits. I suppose one app on your phone, rather then two apps, but I don't think that is much of a big deal IMO.

    For indoor cameras, on PIR's I can sort of see some benefit, but still limited.

    As for standalone cameras? Depends on your requirements?

    Does the camera need to be powered by battery or can you run power to their location? Do you mind a subscription? Do you want cloud based or local recording? Can wifi reach the location you are putting cameras? Do you want remote access?

    Nest Cams, Logitech Circle, Yi cameras, Arlo, Ring, Blink are all examples of popular IP cameras.

    And then you have your more traditional CCTV cameras, ideally Power Over Ethernet powered and connected to a local NVR or NAS for recording the video.

    If you are interested in learning more about IP cameras, lots of info over on the Home Automation forum.

    Sorry probably more info then you wanted.


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    #11
    Argo foc yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Argo foc yourself


    bk wrote: »
    Fundamentally they do different things. An alarm system you arm and disarm, whilst cameras you normally want running 24/7 even if you are home and alarm is off.

    Some issues with integrated:
    - Any time you want to change or add to your camera system, if they are integrated, then you always need to get a certified security installer to do it.

    I feel there are loads of decent DIY camera options are out there. They aren't difficult to setup yourself, so that gives you more flexibility to change or expand the system later.

    - Having separate systems gives you a certain level of redundancy. What if the alarm system companies servers go down? By having them separate, at least you have the cameras as a backup or vice versa. If they are integrated, depending on how the integration works, it may mean if one goes down, they both do.

    But let me ask you, what do you think you would gain by having them integrated?

    I actually can't think of any benefits. I suppose one app on your phone, rather then two apps, but I don't think that is much of a big deal IMO.

    For indoor cameras, on PIR's I can sort of see some benefit, but still limited.

    As for standalone cameras? Depends on your requirements?

    Does the camera need to be powered by battery or can you run power to their location? Do you mind a subscription? Do you want cloud based or local recording? Can wifi reach the location you are putting cameras? Do you want remote access?

    Nest Cams, Logitech Circle, Yi cameras, Arlo, Ring, Blink are all examples of popular IP cameras.

    And then you have your more traditional CCTV cameras, ideally Power Over Ethernet powered and connected to a local NVR or NAS for recording the video.

    If you are interested in learning more about IP cameras, lots of info over on the Home Automation forum.

    Sorry probably more info then you wanted.

    wow... a lot of information there!! thanks for your input. I can see your point over have two systems rather than integrate.
    I will take time to digest that info before making any further plans

    thanks


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