Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

flyingsnail wrote: »

A very basic guide to Glasnevin Junction and the available routes.

Simple but effective!

As can be seen it's not possible to go to Docklands or avoid Drumcondra when going through the tunnel.

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

Quote was 30 million back in 2010...

Hence, no business case. QED

OK here's a thing. Might there be merit in an Luas/PPT interchange station to take some load off connolly ... see map link https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3681198,-6.2863252,764m/data=!3m1!1e3


in the pic the luas will cross above the PPT

( now that I think of it - same thing for the maynooth line if you built the PPT stop between the luas and the maynooth line ... you might be onto something ) .... crayons I know but a triple interchange might not be a bad thing ( discounting canal of course but its not the busiest passenger link ).

Downsides apart from engineering is its on foot hard to get to and broombridge will do 2 of the links out of the box. PPT to Luas sounds good through.

There is about 250m of straight line on the PPT track at that point ? if it was built in the right place. As I said above yes there will be Luas/Maynooth line interchange - it was PPT/LUAS I was after.

end of the road wrote: »

so what happens when drumcondra goes down seeing as there is no "business case" to have an alternative back up route, specially as its hoped the proposed commuter routes will be busy?

Won't be that busy - 4 trains during the peak which translates to 2 per hour and hourly after that. If Drumcondra get blocks, trains could divert to Heuston with its Luas/bus connections. Inconvenient but a lot cheaper providing the alternative route. There are no alternatives at present for all of the DART so why spend 30m for a low frequency service?

In general terms, given that the bulk of commuters on the Heuston side travel from father afield than Hazelhatch, a Hazelhatch-PPT service might not be all that busy. Having to change at Hazelhatch might put a lot of people off unless that service is quicker.

kc56 wrote: »

Won't be that busy - 4 trains during the peak which translates to 2 per hour and hourly after that. If Drumcondra get blocks, trains could divert to Heuston with its Luas/bus connections. Inconvenient but a lot cheaper providing the alternative route. There are no alternatives at present for all of the DART so why spend 30m for a low frequency service?

In general terms, given that the bulk of commuters on the Heuston side travel from father afield than Hazelhatch, a Hazelhatch-PPT service might not be all that busy. Having to change at Hazelhatch might put a lot of people off unless that service is quicker.

Cannot see services direct to Kildare will require 5-6+ minutes padding on the KRP section. There will have to be some sort of change from services from Connolly or Heuston heading to Portlaoise unless they decide to join units together en route.

Interesting thing will be if a service from GCD will be more appealing to passengers than lets say a non stop IC service out of Heuston.

There could be scope for GCD-Nass-Portlaoise and exclude KRP stops.

kc56 wrote: »

In general terms, given that the bulk of commuters on the Heuston side travel from father afield than Hazelhatch, a Hazelhatch-PPT service might not be all that busy. Having to change at Hazelhatch might put a lot of people off unless that service is quicker.

Deleted User wrote: »

Best place to change would be Park West.

It will depend upon where they are going to after they get off the train. For anyone going to Drumcondra area or north inner city around that station then it will be useful, as for anyone going to the CBD, who can use Pearse or Grand Canal Dock.


Changing at Hazelhatch should be a cross-platform interchange.

kc56 wrote: »

Won't be that busy - 4 trains during the peak which translates to 2 per hour and hourly after that. If Drumcondra get blocks, trains could divert to Heuston with its Luas/bus connections. Inconvenient but a lot cheaper providing the alternative route.

yeah, a lot cheeper because the customers might decide not to bother using the service and go back to whatever they were using and then the service can be canceled. not everyone is like us and will stick with the railway no matter what, its about time people in railway circles whether enthusiasts or working on the railway realized this.

kc56 wrote: »

There are no alternatives at present for all of the DART so why spend 30m for a low frequency service?

i'd love to know how it would cost 30000000 just for a connection to 2 lines instead of 1. i don't buy it TBH. in answer however, because having a backup keeps things moving, and ensures customers might be a bit more understanding of the situation and continue using the service, as it at least keeps moving. there being no alternative for the dart is no reason to not bother.

kc56 wrote: »

In general terms, given that the bulk of commuters on the Heuston side travel from father afield than Hazelhatch, a Hazelhatch-PPT service might not be all that busy. Having to change at Hazelhatch might put a lot of people off unless that service is quicker.

and one blockage of drumcondra could put a lot off as well. but whatever. it clearly doesn't matter like everything else on the railway.

Is it known if this service is too operate on top of the hourly portlaois to heuston service or will it just be that service extended to grand canal docks?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I would image peak capacity will be a slight increase and possibly some off peak services requiring some change.

For example most Intercity services operate close together departing X,Y,Z at 11, 13, 15.00 ish and would need to meet connections so I expect a Portlaoise service will meet those however services at 10, 12, 14.00 you may see a possible change required for some passengers as I can't see it been viable to operate such a service unless traffic was to increase a lot.

During the day the Portlaoise service is not heavily loaded so don't see an extra hourly commuter service to Dublin operating all the time.

Thanks for the reply as for portlaois commuter off peak from the Times I've used it which is a fair bit as the bus service is a good 25 minuites slower on a good day and you'd be lucky too see a 3 car set half full but I can see why with the location of heuston and most of the people in my area I've recommended the service too never even knew there was a train station in the area

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Is it known if this service is too operate on top of the hourly portlaois to heuston service or will it just be that service extended to grand canal docks?

At the moment only in the early idea/planning stage but a completely new timetable will operate with alternate trains to/from Heuston and GCD, some GCD trains will be additional paths possibly from Newbridge/Kildare and some existing services through to Portlaoise depending on the time of day and traffic requirements as some of the slots will be used for swaping Connolly/Drogheda ICR sets directly with Portlaoise thus eliminating ECS runs between Heuston and Connolly.

Until the final timetable is drafted we won't know for certain however, a lot can happen in 12 months and what's on the cards now may not be what we see next year.

Works on the Glasnevin-Heuston and tunnel upgrade commence next week AFAIK.

GM228

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722029-phoenix-park-tunnel-dublin/

Work to upgrade Dublin's Phoenix Park tunnel to provide a rail link for commuters from the midlands to the city centre and IFSC was officially launched today.

The €13.7m project, along with new signalling works at Connolly Station, will allow train passengers on the Kildare line to travel further into Dublin City Centre instead of getting off at Heuston.

It is reported that the upgraded tunnel will accommodate four trains an hour in one direction from towns including Carlow and Portlaoise when it re-opens to commuter services next year.

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Interesting they mention carlow I wonder if this will just be a peak time service or will carlow be getting a service similar too what portlaois have

I would imagine it would be something along the lines off diverting the existing 06:30 from carlow to GCD rather tha Heuston

The key to this proposal is that these need to be additional services.

It now appears that they will not serve Heuston P10 at all (no crossover being installed there), so this certainly means that it is essential that the existing services to that station are maintained (given that anyone going to locations west of O'Connell Bridge will still want to use that station).

If they are extras (and it looks as if they will be) then this should stimulate some demand for anyone going east and south of O'Connell Bridge.

lxflyer wrote: »

The key to this proposal is that these need to be additional services.

It now appears that they will not serve Heuston P10 at all (no crossover being installed there), so this certainly means that it is essential that the existing services to that station are maintained (given that anyone going to locations west of O'Connell Bridge will still want to use that station).

If they are extras (and it looks as if they will be) then this should stimulate some demand for anyone going east and south of O'Connell Bridge.

Hopefully they can somehow advertise the new service a bit better as I think awareness of it is still pretty low.

chops018 wrote: »

Am I reading the articles wrong?

I assume when this is finished if you're coming from the Kildare stations then you don't have to get out at Heuston and hop on a bus/luas to get across the city but rather you can stay on your train and go around to Connolly/Tara/Pearse/Landsdowne?

Or what way is it going to work?

You will have a choice of trains - some going to Heuston, others bypassing Heuston and continuing through the Phoenix Park Tunnel and then serving each of Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.

lxflyer wrote: »

You will have a choice of trains - some going to Heuston, others bypassing Heuston and continuing through the Phoenix Park Tunnel and then serving each of Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.

But will you have to change trains anywhere along the way? Or can you stay on your own train for the whole journey to say Landsdowne.

chops018 wrote: »

But will you have to change trains anywhere along the way? Or can you stay on your own train for the whole journey to say Landsdowne.

The train will operate to the following stations once it passes Parkwest:


Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.


Beyond Grand Canal Dock will require a change of train.

Thrashssacre wrote: »

What work needs too be done is it just signalling or is there some other problem with the line ?

Regarding the tunnel itself it requires a heavy cleaning, new lighting and train radio signal improvements and dampness prevention improvements.

The rest of the €13.7 million will go towards partial relaying of the line (Cabra area), ground stabilisation and embankment works near the Cabra end of the tunnel and singal relocation between Glasnevin-Heuston, Drumcondra station will be upgraded with new ticket turnstiles and Tara St station is to receice a new Southbound lift shaft.

Funding could not be obtained to allow up train access to platform 10 and so for now Heuston will not be served, it is possible for down trains to use platform 10 but this is likely to be left out so as to avoid confusion. A big let down IMO. Depending on patronage and further study of passenger trends a business case may present itself in the future for platform 10 and a station at Cabra.

Initial timetable (6 months validity possible) will be to/from Kildare only and then extended to/from Portlaoise.

GM228

It also seems a bit of a waste for commuters since leap cards don't work in Kildare. A day return is a whopping €23.35. Much better off braving the N7.

cgcsb wrote: »

Seems a shame not to serve platform 10 plenty of people working between Capel Street and Inchicore and it wouldn't be very costly to add an overpass and perhaps a travelator like Dublin Airport's low cost pier D.

An alternative entrence/exit at the Clancy Quay development site should be considered.

or even better simply extend the busses down to platform 10 or as near as possible to it. they can serve it and their original stop as well

cgcsb wrote: »

Seems a shame not to serve platform 10 plenty of people working between Capel Street and Inchicore and it wouldn't be very costly to add an overpass and perhaps a travelator like Dublin Airport's low cost pier D.

An alternative entrence/exit at the Clancy Quay development site should be considered.

Anyone wanting to go to those locations will already have the existing services which will continue to serve Heuston.

In order to stop at Platform 10 it would require a new points crossover between the bridge over the Liffey and the Phoenix Park tunnel. That (and associated signalling) does not come cheap.

There are clearance issues between platform 10 and Conyngham Road so putting an exit there isn't really a goer.

Any bridges have to be compliant with disability legislation and again that isn't cheap at all.

As for a travelator - it's 700m from Platform 10 to Heuston main station - that's totally unrealistic. There would have to be connecting buses to/from the platform as there was in previous times.

NorthDublin1 wrote: »

This sounds fantastic!

Bear in mind though that this will only be one train an hour off-peak in either direction, and two per hour during the peak time.