Chit chat number nein

_Brian wrote: »

It’s ironic that we’re moving more and more towards a commodity beef system where factory style farms/feedlots will supply the beef yet it’s images of pasture fed stock from medium family farms that are used on the advertising.
Do you think board bia or whoever is marketing are out there blagging about how good our concrete is ? No they’re selling the green green grass fed avenue, yet every move is taking the industry farther and farther from that reality. We will get called out on that sooner or later. Like I said earlier, already 1/3 of cattle go through feedlots, not a green green system at all.

You obviously have very little to do with farming if you think that cattle can stay out on the land successfully for 12 mths of the year..... have you not seen the irish winters. You have no idea of the practicalities of cattle farming, Cattle have to be housed in winter in most parts of the country. Farmers outwintering cattle in bad conditions have very little respect for the cattle or the environment, or themselves either for that matter
This is typical Beef plan spoof, They have done their best to publicly run down Irish beef as well,
The majority of cattle that go through feedlots will have spent most of their lives on the green grass,

Pulls up a chair to watch .....

Water John wrote: »

Can't see the problem with exporting friesian bull calves TBH. It's that or give them a bullet.

Or the Bobby pen at the end of the road...

Albert Johnson wrote: »

This has been my point exactly over the last few years. If the export market is closed we will be stuck with tens of thousands of effectively worthless animals without any viable market. An animal welfare crisis will be almost unavoidable in such circumstances unless some form of culling or "Bobby calf" system is implemented. Anyone that thinks we can just cease live exports and that the market will adjust itself is massively misguided imo.

The dairy industry has turned a blind eye to this elephant in the room in favour of continued expansion. When the proverbial hits the fan it's agriculture as a whole that will bear the brunt of the fallout as we (farmers) are all much the same in the eyes of the wider public. The system is totally unprepared for such an eventuality and I'm unsure of the best course of action if any. I do however believe that some form of reduction in cattle numbers is almost a certainty and I for one would be in favour of a subsidized reduction scheme.

I agree there is currently no alternative but I also beleive its only a matter of time until we have no choice until live shipping is stopped..



From what I see its another problem were sleep walking into with heads firmly buried in the sand that live shipping will continue.

Some Albert stated that they believed the possible negative publicity around this male Fr calf problem was one of the reasons Glanbia pulled out of the Greenfield project.
See some local bigwigs flogging the JeX for €5 in the local mart. I'd be embarrassed. A lot of more sensible guys have swung back to AA or HFD for the latter half of the cows.
The JeX dairy cow was not able to make the dual contribution needed in the Irish context. Some lads very blinkered to the wider picture.

Brian that's just 6 months. Leerdammer cheese was boasting 135 days at grass.

We fly racehorses all over the world, are we going to ban that too?

Here is the 'grazing outdoor' promise by Leerdammer;
'From spring to autumn, our cows will be outside enjoying the fresh air, grazing in the fields for a minimum of 6 hours a day, for 120 days a year.'

And they claim a market premium for it!!

A lot of the larger shed units around the country, especially those of winter fatteners, have been taken over by the three largest processors, allows them to regulate the market and price.

_Brian wrote: »

Racehorses aren’t jammed in cheek to cheek crapping and walking on each other, they are a valuable commodity and are treated as such.
Time will tell on live shipping but in my mind it’s got a limited life and serious efforts need to be made for palatable alternatives. Some countries have already committed to ending the practice so it’s not impossible for it to happen.

For goodness sake lads I know cattle can’t be 100% at grass, this isn’t my first dance by a long shot. My point is as we remove small and medium sized farms we move to larger farms where cattle spend more and more time indoors and more feedlots where they must be 100% indoors as part of the feedlot licence (I’m open to correction on that if it’s not the case)

Ah Brian do you not know the conditions that feed lost herds have to comply with?

One thing I know they have to have is double fenced perimeter to prevent across ditch disease transfer.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Or the Bobby pen at the end of the road...

What in your experience does it mean?

Mooooo wrote: »

The distances from Australia are serious, how often would they have to stop rest etc?

Do gooders put a stop to the last export ship leaving freemantle before the northern summer started about a month ago. Real pain in the ass here and a lot of backlash from the general public. The do gooders never realise the reality of the situation and should have petitioned to stop the ship before it was loaded instead of just about full and ready to set sale. All those sheep could not return to the paddocks after being on the ships and having weeks of being built up on to the diet for transit.
The ship that landed in the midde east previous to ships planned departure had a mortality rate of les ls than 1% something like 0.6-0.7%, while the daily mortality rate in the paddocks acoss the country is something a bit over 3% im told.

wrangler wrote: »

You obviously have very little to do with farming if you think that cattle can stay out on the land successfully for 12 mths of the year..... have you not seen the irish winters. You have no idea of the practicalities of cattle farming, Cattle have to be housed in winter in most parts of the country. Farmers outwintering cattle in bad conditions have very little respect for the cattle or the environment, or themselves either for that matter
This is typical Beef plan spoof, They have done their best to publicly run down Irish beef as well,
The majority of cattle that go through feedlots will have spent most of their lives on the green grass,

Yea because there was slatted houses around when god was a boy

wrangler wrote: »

The feedlot figure are just figures bandied about by farmers (even) trying to undermine our beef industry,,country is full of small slatted sheds, are they branding them ''feedlots''
We've a farmer near here who winters cattle on one of the new land access roads built in motorway construction, the road was landscaped and little trees sown so you can imagine what's happened to that now...... some mess now

The feedlot figures are as released by the department and not just something bandied abkut.

I only know of two and on both the animals are housed 24/7/365, perhaps I mistakenly took that this was a stipulation of the licence, if so I stand corrected.

Feedlot is simply a status on the system where if an animal enters it the only way they can exit is direct to slaughter, cannot be sold elsewhere. It doesn't mean stock being housed 24/7/365

_Brian wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/reducing-the-age-cattle-are-finished-among-proposals-in-governments-climate-action-plan-38225397.html

A possible reduction in the age cattle are finished at. Will this give more power to factories to limit prices ?

Of course it will, they are using it currently to do that. Ironically finishing younger means intensive feeding, which will likely mean less grass.

Mooooo wrote: »

Of course it will, they are using it currently to do that. Ironically finishing younger means intensive feeding, which will likely mean less grass.

And therefore alot more CO2/CH4 with less sequestered. Mad they can tax by the tonne but have no idea how to measure it!

Climate change plan is based on Teagasc advice
We are F'ed so

Water John wrote: »

Can't see the problem with exporting friesian bull calves TBH. It's that or give them a bullet.

If it pays to ship them to France to be reared as Veal and the veal sold on to Say The Italian market. Why couldn’t we rear them here and sell directly to the Italian market ourselves ??

Grueller wrote: »

Splash plate gone I would think.
Fertiliser change will be a limit on P & K spread from the bag I would guess. This will be an effective quota on production.
The farm organisations will get their chance to earn their corn now.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-climate-action-plan-to-be-based-on-teagasc-roadmap/

Organic farming it is so

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Yea because there was slatted houses around when god was a boy

Of course and motorcars and aeroplanes

Say my name wrote: »

More here..

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/Giving-Ireland-a-Sustainable-Future.aspx

interestingly its dated Monday 17th July

Say my name wrote:

Are you sure about that? Final answer?

Yes I am clearly they have updated it

_Brian wrote: »

I can think of one demonstration day last or maybe the year before where Teagasc were promoting draining bog land to use as dairy.

Like I said before they are followers not leaders and react to stuff rather than innovate.

They will bang on now like anyone who drained bog is a monster even though they promoted it so recently.

I'd say Teagasc have no part in this bit maybe damage limitation of the rest of the plan.

I'd say this part came from the citizens assembly and concerned wildlife groups.
This I'd say is going to more a west of Ireland job and the Shannon and Galway catchment area's to limit flooding (in their eyes) of towns and preserve drinking water from chemicals.
It'll be a mandatory no options given imposition. Feel good factor for everyone except the landowner.

I don't think it's Bord na Mona land because it wouldn't be grassland.

What makes little sense about the current climate action plan hysterics is that most of it appears to be firmly aimed at the total shutting down of carbon emissions without setting out what the realistic alternatives are.

Take for example the Indo article quoted previously.

The Government plans to force petrol and diesel cars off our roads, A leaked copy of the plan seen by the Irish Independent shows it has a major emphasis on the transport sector. Proposals include banning petrol and diesel cars from town centres around the country.

A car-scrappage scheme is under consideration for next year in a bid to promote a move toward electric vehicles (EVs).

If the tax stood at €80 per tonne, based on today's prices and including Vat, a litre of petrol would be around 17c dearer and diesel 20c.

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/reducing-the-age-cattle-are-finished-among-proposals-in-governments-climate-action-plan-38225397.html

The problem with that is nearly the entire transportation sector is dependent on diesel and to a lesser extent petrol. Lorries, boats, airplanes, construction equipment, farm machinery, delivery vehicles all need fossil fuels to operate.

Start taxing the fook out of the use of these fuels, increase road tax and insurance as is being suggested and cost of living prices will soar. Ban them all together and you can say hello to something akin to a Mad Max reality

Ok so bring in all the EV cars. Well that's great but in Ireland some 70% of all electricity atm is produced by burning high carbon fossil fuels - so no great swap there tbh. Your EV car is still running on fossil fuels. The current proposals also suggest doubling electricity tax on businesses.

Who benefits here? Imo the car industry gets rich, power companies and government taxation has another source of easy revenue.

Ok let's say we aim for zero carbon emissions in whatever number of years - for example that will mean no concrete industry or products (as is responsible for significant CO2 emissions) and no chopping down trees. So what exactly will we build houses out of? Thin air?

With no artificial fertilisers - food production levels will plummet and sorry to say but our plant loving friends will also feel the brunt of that.

But of course the biggest issue that countries who implement a zero emission target will set themselves to a huge disadvantage over those countries that don't bother with the whole climate disaster thing and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

It's already happening here with much of the 'green' technology such as solar panels used here - being manufactured in China by factories which use electricity generated from coal.

Does anyone win in all this?

Much of this seems to be more about making the right sounds rather working on ways to prevent ghgs from entering the atmosphere in the first place through the use of appropriate technology or real solutions for reducing existing ghg levels. Some vague mutterings about bogs and trees which at best will take millennia to make any large difference ain't really a solution imo.

Add in noises about Moneypoint being closed for good.
And home produced electricity being sold into the grid and retrofitting heat pumps into existing houses and banning oil powered central heating.
And biomass community heat systems and anaerobic digestion heat systems.

Leo was asked about making public transport free and he rejected the idea based on capacity issues and cost.
Now that was an outside the box idea whoever came up with it and would have considerably reduced carbon usage overnight. Good idea purely from a carbon point of view.

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I wouldn't get very excited. We're 7 years into the National Broadband Plan and we're told it could be more than 3 years for us to get anything.

But this government do like a nice press release:rolleyes:

The thing about the NBP is that if and when it is fully implemented - it could potentially help reduce ghg production. Remote working, reduction in unnecessary journeys, industries being able to set up in areas to support local jobs without the need for large commutes etc etc will potentially reduce the movement of people where it is not necessary. Haven't heard one word about that tbh.