Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Great amount of legislation proposed in 2018 to change the Residential Tenancies Act

13»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    GGtrek, thanks for explaining that - much appreciated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Further substantial changes:
    - all determination orders will have to be published from now on (no more discretion to RTB) [I have not understood if even in the case of agreement reached among the parties, the agreement will be published]
    - registration of the tenancy (section 134) will now become annual [other additional bureaucracy for landlords] and the registration will have to happen "within 1 month from each anniversary of the date of the commencement of the tenancy." In addition they are very explicit that it will also apply to tenancies that started before the new bill is approved: "A landlord shall comply with the registration in respect of a tenancy that commenced before, on or after the commencement of section 12 of the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2018." [it is the usual changing of the rules of the game]. There are some exception granted (i.e. 4 months to register and pay the fee instead of 1 month) if the anniversary falls within the first three months since the approval of the bill.
    - the registration fee will now be paid annually however from the best of my understanding it has been reduced to €40 per year (or €80 if the registration is delayed by not more than 12 months or €170 otherwise). I am sorry but the changes to section 137 are so complicated to make them almost unreadable! In any case this means almost a threefold increase of fees compared with current situation of €90 every 6 years.
    - fee for adjudications changes to €20
    - fee for appeals changes to €85

    [to be continued]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭DubCount


    GGTrek wrote: »
    registration of the tenancy (section 134) will now become annual

    Although this brings additional costs (which will eventually find their way into higher rents) and additional unwanted paperwork to landlords, I see some benefit to this. I have always wondered if the true level of the decline in landlords and tenancies is being masked by landlords not bothering to de-register from the RTB when they sell up or otherwise take their properties off the long term rental market. Annual registration should provide more accurate stats on the actual level of live tenancies, as RTB figures will have more accurate data.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Now Part 7A introduced by the Bill is the most substantial change to the Act, which will "try to" criminalize landlords that do not respect RPZ rules (even if the difficult renovation rules are not fully respected), but will not criminalize tenants who do not pay rent (the skewed view of big government).

    I believe many parts of this section to be uncostitutional since only proper courts (not the RTB) can determine criminal offences and only with beyond reasonable doubt standard of evidence, not with the kangaroo standard setup by this bill. As an escape valve, they are trying to force the lanldord to accept culpability in order to avoid a criminal prosecution in proper courts and force landlords to provide evidence to incriminate themselves during the investigation and notice phase.

    They wish to nominate "authorised officers and decision makers" who can investigate breaches to RPZ regulations and if a lanldord does not accept results of investigations (and an oral hearing which would become different from normal RTB adjudications), they would start criminal proceedings! This is a joke, the nomination of such officeers does not follow any proper rules of independence that apply to normal Courts:
    164A. (1) For the purposes of Part 7A the Board shall appoint, as it thinks fit
    (a) a person to be an authorised officer, and
    (b) a person to be a decision maker.
    (2) A person appointed under subsection (1)(a) may be a member of staff of the Board. (a few on the staff of the Board were employees of Housing Charities!)

    They want to give these people the authority to force landlords to testify as witnesses (like in a proper Court) then forward the case to Courts since these "officers" could not constitutionally impose criminal penalties.

    Even worse, unlike a proper court process they would accept a "complaint" from any person to start the investigation (it does not need to be an interested party as instead required to start any court proceeding). It is a blackmail charter against landlords and there is nothing in the bill forcing the complainant name to be made available to the landlord and then requested to testify as the landlord would be forced to (in the uncostitutional wishes of this bill). AFAIK a crime can never be reported anonymously and the defendant has a right to cross examine the person making the accusations. In any case I looked at Article 38.3 of the Constitution and it weakens substantially defendant rights in Ireland to be tried by jury and follow due process of law.

    To ameliorate the uncostitutionality of the bill the govvie then added these subsections:
    "(11)Nothing in this section shall be taken to compel the production by any person of any records which he or she would be exempt from producing in proceedings in a court on the ground of legal professional privilege.
    (12)An authorised officer shall not, other than with the consent of the occupier, enter a private dwelling without a warrant issued under
    subsection (13) authorising the entry." I.e. asking a proper Court for a warrant.

    The way I see this part 7A:
    a) it will take a long time for the RTB to setup the whole system
    b) it will just take one single judicial review to make it fall

    They should have just kept the whole business within the adjudication framework (even breaches to RPZ legislation) without trying to show off that the govvie is "very serious" about it. The RTB should have been given the authority to take the initiative of the adjudication with the complainant named and as a witness and sorted it out within the current framework with administrative penalties. The govvie is overdoing it and (as usual) will cause another reduction of supply in rental properties.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    This is heart breaking. More money thrown at rtb. The director is getting her way. 50% goes in tax and property tax.
    I wonder will resits have to pay this fee? They will have it in the contract that the tenant will have to pay the service fee for rtb.

    Not all landlords break the laws.

    Did you notice nothing about non paying tenants or quick evictions. The costs will be passed onto the tenants.
    Paying a fee yearly will become monthly.
    They will find homes sitting empty with no tenants in them. Reap what you sew.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    tvjunki wrote: »
    This is heart breaking. More money thrown at rtb. The director is getting her way. 50% goes in tax and property tax.
    I wonder will resits have to pay this fee? They will have it in the contract that the tenant will have to pay the service fee for rtb.

    Not all landlords break the laws.

    Did you notice nothing about non paying tenants or quick evictions. The costs will be passed onto the tenants.
    Paying a fee yearly will become monthly.
    They will find homes sitting empty with no tenants in them. Reap what you sew.


    There is absolutely nothing (as expected) about overholding or non paying tenants and for sure it is a massive power grab for the RTB against landlords. I have already started the sale process of all my properties in Ireland and I hope I shall be done before the summer. The government does not want small/medium landlords and selling is the only rational thing to do for non institutional landlords.


    Rental supply will be further reduced in 2019 after such bill is approved no matter the limited build to rent properties the REITs are building (rents will not decrease for sure :D). In addition in 2020 when the agreement between FF and FG will terminate due to electoral reasons, measures like the anti-eviction bill have a chance of being enacted (again due to electoral reasons) and there is a strong possibility that they will put a tombstone over the Irish private rental market.


    I am not too worried about the fee, but about the time costs imposed on landlords with all the new bureaucracy and for sure I am worried by the blackmail charter for RPZ which reminds me about Fascists and Communist regimes (who always liked anonymous complaints). Any tenant that a landlord has evicted can now easily blackmail him/her by simply complaining at the RTB (who has no checks and balances at all) and a landlord will have to prove its innocence under the risk of a criminal prosecution with jail terms of up to 5 years (which is something you would get for manslaughter or drug trafficking!) if not cooperating with an RTB employee:
    "Subject to subsection (10), a person who

    (a) withholds, destroys, conceals or refuses to provide any information or records required for the purposes of an investigation,
    (b) fails or refuses to comply with any requirement of an authorised officer under this section, or
    (c) otherwise obstructs or hinders an authorised officer in the performance of functions imposed under this Part,
    is guilty of an offence and liable

    (i) on summary conviction, to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or
    (ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €50,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both"



    In many democratic countries the police or public prosecution cannot force you to testify or provide proof against yourself in criminal proceedings. In Ireland an RTB employee could do it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Did I read somewhere in that bill that anyone can send in a claim against a landlord and they have no direct connection to the house(not tenant or x tenant). So any jealous neighbour could cause trouble and there are no consequences to them if it is a lie. We are selling too. Government your getting your wishes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Jesus im glad im out and im staying out.
    Things are just getting worse by the day.
    Who in their right mind would be a landlord today.
    I used to think that if I just waited surely it would improve for a landlord but at the drop of a hat it just gets worse and worse and even worse.

    Lets see. What have we got now.
    Forcing landlords to rent to people they don't want to rent to.

    One sided leases. A lease means nothing to a tenant. They can leave it just by nominating an alchoholic cat with no references. Yet the landlord is stuck in a lease he didn't even agree with the tenant. If the tenant wanted to convince the landlord to let to them by making the lease attractive, they cant accept it.

    Not ever being able to make back the money that you spend doing the place up. Because you are stuck at 4% rent increases.

    Tenants can just not pay rent and do what they like and you will be so far in the hole you might as well just burn the place down by the time you get them out.

    Landlords who were not taking the piss before and charging low rent are punished for this, while the lls who were already taking the piss are rewarded for it.

    If you want out of the business so you can use the property to earn money in other ways the government are actively blocking this too.

    What kind of a joke is this? Really?
    Anyone who stays in the business is an idiot as far as I can see.
    Pure madness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    GGTrek wrote: »
    In many democratic countries the police or public prosecution cannot force you to testify or provide proof against yourself in criminal proceedings. In Ireland an RTB employee could do it!

    It's in Ireland too, just the government don't care as they won't be called out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,305 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Not ever being able to make back the money that you spend doing the place up. Because you are stuck at 4% rent increases.
    I wonder what law the government will introduce to "fix" this issue of houses not being updated, because the LL's won't be able to take back money from the rent for it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Scienceless


    looks like a few changes from minister Murphy are on the way, rtb to have new powers to investigate, criminal proceedings, annual rtb fees and substantial renovation changes.

    i find it a bit confusing to read but others with more experience or legal knowledge will understand it

    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2018/140/eng/initiated/b14018d.pdf

    Is this the full extent of what’s coming in this legislation early next year? Is there anything in there for ll’s on below market rents in RPZ’s?
    Didn’t see anything there on that but it is confusing?
    Or is it the case if it’s not in the legislation it’s not happening?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Is this the full extent of what’s coming in this legislation early next year? Is there anything in there for ll’s on below market rents in RPZ’s?
    Didn’t see anything there on that but it is confusing?
    Or is it the case if it’s not in the legislation it’s not happening?


    Yes it is the full extent to what is coming for residential lettings ONLY. It can be changed by amendments however and I am sure there will be plenty to worsen it coming from the usual SF and their commie comrades. It has gone through the cabinet already and probably has been agreed by FF as well, it is a govvie proposal so it will not go to committee stage and will be quickly approved.


    There is absolutely NOTHING for LLs on below market rents in RPZs in this legislation. Actually the legislation worsens the situation for such LLs and for any type of LL: only bad news! It is the usual LLs bashing legislation that has been coming out of the Oireachtas since 2008 (10 years of bashing, no wonder the rental market is like this!)


    This does not mean that it is the only legislation that is going to come out in 2019. Other govvie legislation in the pipeline is the massive restriction of short term lettings and you can bet at the end of 2019 the RPZ zones will be renewed. The RPZ order of the minister for Dublin and Cork should expire at the end of 2019, but the rental market supply has worsened considerably thanks to the LLs continuous bashing and LLs exiting the market, so the govvie and FF are desperate to look good on the Irish socialist media especially considering that it is very likely that in 2020 there will be general elections if the confidence and supply agreement between FG and FF expires in 2020 (maybe they extend it until 2021 which is the natural expiry of this Oireachtas).


    In any case do not even hope that this govvie and these TDs clowns will stop legislating (even if the proposals are uncostitutional like many of the latest proposals including this one) and damaging the property letting market in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ...Is there anything in there for ll’s on below market rents in RPZ’s?...

    Nothing good I expect. They'll probably increase taxes for people with one rented property and low rents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Scienceless


    beauf wrote: »
    Nothing good I expect. They'll probably increase taxes for people with one rented property and low rents.

    They can do what they like!
    It will not be an issue for me soon anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    I should have posted this in here actually.

    Seems to fit better than where I originally posted it.

    I was talking to someone today who said that the number of properties for sale has risen.

    And that he thinks that the reason is that there has been a huge shift in the last few months of landlords getting out and realizing that things will never get better and they have finally decided to just sell up.

    Could these two things actually be related I wonder?

    If its true I guess it might have an effect on sale prices. Pretty sure it will have an effect on rentals anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,510 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    I should have posted this in here actually.

    Seems to fit better than where I originally posted it.

    I was talking to someone today who said that the number of properties for sale has risen.

    And that he thinks that the reason is that there has been a huge shift in the last few months of landlords getting out and realizing that things will never get better and they have finally decided to just sell up.

    Could these two things actually be related I wonder?

    If its true I guess it might have an effect on sale prices. Pretty sure it will have an effect on rentals anyway.

    Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. My parents are recently retired and were thinking of buying a house to rent out for their pension, I objected very strongly. I honestly think it would be the end of my dad if he had a bad tenant, he doesnt understand how bad it could get and he would not cope with the bank situation.


Advertisement