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Transport aspects of today's Commission on Taxation report

  • 07-09-2009 1:12pm
    #1
    crocro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭


    not much about public transport in there...

    VRT to be abolished over 10 years and replaced with fuel tax, road pricing and congestion charge.

    Tax relief on public transport passes and bike scheme to be retained.

    A scrappage scheme, limited to electric and very low carbon emitting vehicles.

    Tax on nitrous oxide emissions (greenhouse gas) could raise price of diesel.

    Transport taxes already account for a very high proportion of tax revenue in Ireland compared to other euro countries. Energy is more likely to be taxed.


Comments

  • #2
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    crocro wrote: »
    Tax on nitrous oxide emissions

    will dentists have to pay this too... :pac:


  • #3
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Glad to see VRT going out the window eventually :) I'm surprised they're getting rid of that cash cow.

    Congestion charging I still dont think will happen, only because it would take too much effort to sort out properly. The same as with the "Pay €xxx for parking in the city per year" that came up at the budget that mysteriously disappeared because it was completely unenforcable.


  • #4
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Congestion charging I still dont think will happen, only because it would take too much effort to sort out properly. The same as with the "Pay €xxx for parking in the city per year" that came up at the budget that mysteriously disappeared because it was completely unenforcable.

    I think there is also mention of "Road Pricing" and herein lies the sting in the tail.....
    Let nobody be complacent about Noel Dempsey`s concern about Toll Operators revenue streams being sufficient to give them a bit of oul return to compenste them for the "risk"...That essentially means Motorists WILL pay whether they use the roads or not !!!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #5
    crocro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    That essentially means Motorists WILL pay whether they use the roads or not !!!
    Other than fuel taxes and tolls, the taxes we have now charge motorists whether they drive or not:motor tax, insurance levy and vrt are all ownership taxes rather than usage taxes. The report recommends a move towards more usage based taxes but accepts that public transport will have to improve first.
    Chris_533976 wrote:
    Congestion charging I still dont think will happen, only because it would take too much effort to sort out properly.
    It seems to be working in London, Singapore, Stockholm, Milan, Bergen, Malta and so on.


  • #6
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    crocro wrote: »

    It seems to be working in London, Singapore, Stockholm, Milan, Bergen, Malta and so on.

    Agreed, within the confines of the canals this would very workable in Dublin; and it is a huge cash generator in London - the M50 pay as you go electronic tolling seems to be working (just about ok), so I think dublin congestion charging is only a matter of time, the technology and good implemenations as examples have already been done. It will happen!


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  • #7
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Can you imagine the farce of the M50 barrier free across the whole of Dublin?

    They can introduce it all they want, but they've proven that they havent got a clue with the M50 fiasco so I wouldnt trust any authoirity here to run such a scheme. In London it works because the Congestion Charging is run COMPETENTLY. That wouldnt happen here.


  • #8
    crocro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    They can introduce it all they want, but they've proven that they havent got a clue with the M50 fiasco so I wouldnt trust any authoirity here to run such a scheme. In London it works because the Congestion Charging is run COMPETENTLY. That wouldnt happen here.
    Capita's system for ANPR tolling is working fine in London since 2003. We chose eFlow who have obviously made a total balls of their M50 toll system. I expect that eFlow/Sanef is losing money on the contract so far and that toll revenues are below what they should be. The NRA is responsible for the failings of their subcontractor but I wouldn't conclude that ANPR tolling is unworkable just that we chose the wrong company to implement it.

    Eventually eflow's problems will be worked out or the contract will transfer to someone who can operate it competently such as capita. Once it is working it will be easy to extend it to a broader congestion charging system. The technology is not holding back congestion charging - it's the lack of public transport infrastructure. I can't see congestion charging being a runner until Metro North and the Inerconnector are in (2017-2019?)

    It's odd that at the moment we toll the city bypasses (M50 & M1 Tunnel) rather than tolling people entering the city.


  • #9
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    eflow aren't a subcontractor to the NRA, eflow are the NRA. [1]
    There is no tunnel on the M1, the Dublin Port tunnel is the M50.[2]

    Both of these are run by the NRA, which is why there's no VAT charged to users.

    [1]search the CRO's website for eflow http://www.cro.ie/search/ click on business name, not company name
    [2] http://www.nra.ie/TendersRecruitment/


  • #10
    crocro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    eflow aren't a subcontractor to the NRA, eflow are the NRA. [1]
    You're right, the subcontractor is Beteire Flow. I guess it makes sense for the NRA to own the eflow trademark so that they can change subcontractor without rebranding.
    There is no tunnel on the M1, the Dublin Port tunnel is the M50.
    I never knew that.


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