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It's GDPR gone mad, so it is

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24

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    #32
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They dont have to be arranged via WhatsApp. And it's not about removing from a group either. The concern is with being someone who doesnt want their information handled through a 3rd party service. Which in this case would be whatsapp. Especially if it's not a service one uses.

    I think we found the sad sack!


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joebloggs32 wrote: »
    I don't think its GDPR gone mad......its the idiots who are afraid to say/do anything through a misguided fear of falling foul of it.

    On the flip side of that I know a man who regularly complains via email about anything he thinks is a breach of Gdpr. He does it just for the sake of it.and because he knows the law is on his side. Or maybe more precise to say, he thinks the law is on his side and he knows the people he contacts aren't too sure about the whole thing.


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    #34
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    The HSE don't provide the defibs. If they published a list, and your relative died because someone went to the place of the list only to find that the unit wasn't there anymore (because the owner decided to move it or lock it away or whatever), then you might try suing the HSE for their death.

    If you think you need a defib, just call the emergency number and follow their instructions.
    I don't think you understand the point of providing defis in the first place, it's about speed and getting the person shocked asap, before the ambulance can arrive, especially if it takes longer than about 5-8 mins.


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    #35
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    There's a long running scam where offices in Georgian buildings in town evade avoid tax by opening their lovely ornate ceilings to the public.

    Revenue won't tell An Taisce which buildings are open to the public.


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    #36
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Used to be a GDPR processor and controller, new job....things I dont give a fcuk about......... GDPR :D

    And ****ing document storage boxes, they can also go fcuk themselves.


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    #37
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    beauf wrote: »
    In my experience it creates loads of completely pointless extra work.
    This.
    angel eyes 2012 wrote: »
    On reading the article it appears that a number of the devices have been locked away on private property, therefore it wouldn't be appropriate to publish the address of the private individuals in the circumstances unless the individuals had given their explicit consent for their personal data ie name, address etc. to be made available or if the HSE rolls out contracts for the provision of defibrillators in these locations.

    From my understanding of the article there is no data protection issue in providing details on the location of devices available in public places as there is no personal data to protect.
    Knew it would be the above.
    Edgware wrote: »
    It has replaced Health and Safety as an excuse for officials to do nothing
    Such shyte. People often haven't a clue what they're on about when talking about data protection.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    On the flip side of that I know a man who regularly complains via email about anything he thinks is a breach of Gdpr. He does it just for the sake of it.and because he knows the law is on his side. Or maybe more precise to say, he thinks the law is on his side and he knows the people he contacts aren't too sure about the whole thing.
    Exactly this. Workers hate having to comply with the more stupid, pedantic aspects of data protection but they have to. It's drilled into them how serious and important it is. It means whiny customers (and conspiracy theories about an EU directive being used as an excuse to do less work) which they hardly want to visit on themselves.

    But also, is it not a positive that people's data is stringently protected? I love how this legitimate barrier is dismissed as an "excuse".


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    #38
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,717 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I don't think you understand the point of providing defis in the first place, it's about speed and getting the person shocked asap, before the ambulance can arrive, especially if it takes longer than about 5-8 mins.

    I understand perfectly well.

    Call the number and the operator will talk you thru getting things started vs running around like a headless chook looking for a piece of equipment which you likely don't know how to use and may not have access to. ( The people who do have access already know where the equipment is, they don't need the HSE to tell them.)


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    #39
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I'm not sure why you quoted me.

    I often am presented with the situation that in order to help someone I need their details. I can't get the details because someone thinks its a GDPR issue to give me those details.
    But I will be asked to spends lots of time on the issue, to find a long winded way to get that information, which actually gives me more information than was needed in the first place.
    But I will end up back at the start, because I can't give the information to the person who asked for it. Because of GDPR.

    It would be like John Smith asking for password reset, but I need the email to reset it. But he won't give it to me because of GDPR. I can see a misspelling on the email, but can't tell John Smith because thats GDPR. So everyones time is wasted. (I don't actually have anything to do with passwords, I just couldn't think of a better example, and this isn't a good one, before someone picks obvious holes in it).


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    #40
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I understand perfectly well.

    Call the number and the operator will talk you thru getting things started vs running around like a headless chook looking for a piece of equipment which you likely don't know how to use and may not have access to. ( The people who do have access already know where the equipment is, they don't need the HSE to tell them.)

    So only people who know where it is can be told where it is. Even though they already know. But by the time they get there, it will be too late than they won't need it anyway.

    The people who don't know where it isn't can't be told. Despite those people being the only people who need the location and the only people who will be able to make best use of it.
    If one is crazy, one does not have to fly missions; and one must be crazy to fly. But one has to apply to be excused, and applying demonstrates that one is not crazy. As a result, one must continue flying, either not applying to be excused, or applying and being refused.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22


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    #41
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Gdpr was basically set up to stop the likes of Facebook selling your data on.... And now it's just silly and hugely misunderstood


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    #42
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    It's very easy to see how the WhatsApp is a concern.

    Let's say you have a sports club with a kids teams, let's say under 8 girls.

    The coach sets up a WhatsApp group for all the parents of the under 8 girls so that they let them know when training is, if training is cancelled, if a game has been scheduled, who can help out with x,y or z next week etc. etc.

    Now in that WhatsApp group any parent (not just the coach) can see the phone number of another parent, regardless of whether that parent wants them to see it or not.
    And that is the issue.

    Using Whatsapp to communicate in sports clubs has been around longer than GDPR so it's very widely used and finding an alternative is difficult.


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    #43
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    I saw on the RTE news there that the HSE couldn't give out the locations of community defibrillator units, as it would be a breach of GDPR, so some lad decided to map them all (in Laois at least) and make the locations publicly available (article here, which doesn't give a link to the app or site or whatever...)

    ...And just after that report, there was a report about the GAA advising trainers / managers not to communicate with teams over Whatsapp, due to GDPR fears, and that the GAA will be setting up their own messaging app... whatever difference that will make, I don't know.

    So, are these reasonable measures, or is it GDPR gone mad ?

    Every club up and down the land is using Whatsapp groups... What's the actual tenet of GDPR that is apparently being broken?


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    #44
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    It's very easy to see how the WhatsApp is a concern.

    Let's say you have a sports club with a kids teams, let's say under 8 girls.

    The coach sets up a WhatsApp group for all the parents of the under 8 girls so that they let them know when training is, if training is cancelled, if a game has been scheduled, who can help out with x,y or z next week etc. etc.

    Now in that WhatsApp group any parent (not just the coach) can see the phone number of another parent, regardless of whether that parent wants them to see it or not.
    And that is the issue.

    Using Whatsapp to communicate in sports clubs has been around longer than GDPR so it's very widely used and finding an alternative is difficult.

    They would have had to have given their number to have it added to the group in the first place


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    #45
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,409 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They dont have to be arranged via WhatsApp. And it's not about removing from a group either. The concern is with being someone who doesnt want their information handled through a 3rd party service. Which in this case would be whatsapp. Especially if it's not a service one uses.

    If you don't use WhatsApp then you can't be added to any groups or contacted through it. You simply don't appear in the phone book if you don't have the app downloaded and set up. You don't exist as far as WhatsApp is concerned.


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    #46
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    lawred2 wrote: »
    They would have had to have given their number to have it added to the group in the first place
    This is the problem.
    They would have given their number to the group administrator/coach who would have solicited it in the first place, but not to the other members of the group.


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    #47
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭elefant


    lawred2 wrote: »
    They would have had to have given their number to have it added to the group in the first place

    It's probably fine in general, as long as it's made expressly clear that when you're providing your number to an administrator that you're going to be added to a whatsapp group where lots of other people you don't know at all can see the number.

    It only takes one disgruntled parent to claim they gave their number to an individual coach to be updated about their kid's team only for their number to be added to a group, without opting in, where 100 other parents have access to that name/number, for things to suddenly be a potential problem.

    You'd be skeptical about the GAA ever enforcing (or being able to enforce) any kind of ban on whatsapp groups but I can see why they, as an organisation, are basically saying: 'adding someone's personal details to a whatsapp group is the personal decision of a coach, and not endorsed by the GAA'.


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    #48
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    It's being taken to the extreme.
    I see in my creche, the children are no longer allowed to have their photo displayed. They had them on magnets for selecting daily tasks. Any list in the creche is no longer allowed to have full surnnames. If the creche takes some photos, the USB stick has to be kept in a locked safe at all times. Utter madness.


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    #49
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jester77 wrote: »
    It's being taken to the extreme.
    I see in my creche, the children are no longer allowed to have their photo displayed. They had them on magnets for selecting daily tasks. Any list in the creche is no longer allowed to have full surnnames. If the creche takes some photos, the USB stick has to be kept in a locked safe at all times. Utter madness.

    No need for photos and badges can be animals or characters.

    Other than registering I can't imagine you use a surname than much. But there will be times when you need to use it.


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    #50
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    It's could be solved is WhatsApps allow alias and hiding numbers for some groups. That could be abused though.


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    #51
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    beauf wrote: »
    No need for photos and badges can be animals or characters.

    Other than registering I can't imagine you use a surname than much. But there will be times when you need to use it.

    You can give the creche explicit permission for pictures. No big deal.


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    #52
    Captain Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,834 ✭✭✭Captain Flaps


    I'm responsible for GDPR in our company and it's not really applicable to either of the examples in the OP. Someone's been given bad advice.


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    #53
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    Elemonator wrote: »
    It is a lazy attempt and a total misinterpretation of GDPR. GDPR applies to businesses or entities that process data as part of their operations ie. commercial. Personal use is exempt (so don’t worry about your dash cam). I really can’t see how the location of a medical device is any issue.

    You are incorrect, GDPR does not just apply to commercial operations. There is a personal/household exemption, but that wouldn't apply to GAA clubs. I fail to see what personal information is being processed by the publication of the location of medical devices.

    As regards dash cams...
    Captain Flaps wrote: »
    I'm responsible for GDPR in our company and it's not really applicable to either of the examples in the OP. Someone's been given bad advice.

    It's perfectly valid in that I may not consent to the sharing of my phone number (which is PII) with other random members of a WhatsApp group.


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    #54
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I understand perfectly well.

    Call the number and the operator will talk you thru getting things started vs running around like a headless chook looking for a piece of equipment which you likely don't know how to use and may not have access to. ( The people who do have access already know where the equipment is, they don't need the HSE to tell them.)

    I think this is a great post. It explains why it is so important that as many people as possible actually get defib training.
    Its a very easy process, takes a few hours, teaches you basic CPR skills and how to use a defib.
    More generally, if you suspect someone is having a cardiac episode then of course call 112/999 but also if possible send someone for the nearest defib. There are very very easy to use and you can't accidentally shock or harm someone.
    Also more generally speaking, people who have defib training may know where the nearest defib is when at work or at home, but that would normally be it. So an accurate and accessible list of defibs would be great.
    But seriously, if you get the opportunity to do defib training please take it.


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    #55
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    It should be a relatively simple workaround for WhatsApp. They could either create a code for groups, whereby the code is sent out and people join a group via a code rather than be added, or they could just change the way people can be added at present (I.e give them a choice of rejecting it).

    Both ways could include info or t&c's of group.

    They should also be able to hide numbers from the group.

    Such a load of nonsense really. The GAA have been fluttering around with an idea of a communications app for Clubs for years now. I would put commercial reasons ahead of gdpr as their main driver.


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    #56
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    irishgrover wrote: »
    I think this is a great post. It explains why it is so important that as many people as possible actually get defib training.
    Its a very easy process, takes a few hours, teaches you basic CPR skills and how to use a defib.
    More generally, if you suspect someone is having a cardiac episode then of course call 112/999 but also if possible send someone for the nearest defib. There are very very easy to use and you can't accidentally shock or harm someone.
    Also more generally speaking, people who have defib training may know where the nearest defib is when at work or at home, but that would normally be it. So an accurate and accessible list of defibs would be great.
    But seriously, if you get the opportunity to do defib training please take it.

    A defib generally (at least the ones I've used) talk you through the process. But everyone should get some training if comes up. Invaluable.


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    #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lawred2 wrote: »
    You can give the creche explicit permission for pictures. No big deal.

    I was more referring to the obsession to have photo's of everything. Completely unnecessary.


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    #58
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    PARlance wrote: »
    It should be a relatively simple workaround for WhatsApp. They could either create a code for groups, whereby the code is sent out and people join a group via a code rather than be added, or they could just change the way people can be added at present (I.e give them a choice of rejecting it).

    Both ways could include info or t&c's of group.

    They should also be able to hide numbers from the group.

    Such a load of nonsense really. The GAA have been fluttering around with an idea of a communications app for Clubs for years now. I would put commercial reasons ahead of gdpr as their main driver.

    But there is no way to hide your number in a WhatsApp group


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    #59
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    beauf wrote: »
    I was more referring to the obsession to have photo's of everything. Completely unnecessary.

    Well that's a local creche thing then


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    #60
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But there is no way to hide your number in a WhatsApp group

    I know, I was suggesting that WhatsApp could/should develop something so your "display name" is the only thing shown in such groups. I.e your full name or number is hidden to all and people can only see what name you choose to show.


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    #61
    neacy69
    Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭neacy69


    There is an option in whatsapp to restrict who can add you to groups. If users don't want to be automatically added to groups then select this option and you will be sent an invite instead to join the group if want to join it. If you dont want to then dont...

    https://www.joe.ie/tech/can-now-stop-people-adding-whatsapp-groups-664309

    To access the new settings head to 'Account options' within the settings menu. Select 'Privacy', then 'Groups', and from there you’ll be able to choose between three options: Nobody, My Contacts, or Everyone.


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