Intel you legends!

16-01-2011 1:36am

Finally! A good news story as POTD. It's about bloody time!

peanuthead · 16-01-2011 1:40am

Who is the contractor for this project or is it even that far ahead yet?

No mention of when this is due to take off.

OH is in construction and has been out of work so long it's not even funny - this is great news for 850 lucky people in that sector!

delonglad · 16-01-2011 1:56am

great news. Hopefully they will ramp up production and I might get a few trips back home.

PeakOutput · 16-01-2011 3:51am

thecornflake wrote: »

Intel are in the business of making the dollar, it just so happens that they do this by making chips.

Also , i would imagine the billions of dollars already invested in Ireland coupled with Ireland being one of their most successful locations helped their decision.

i never said otherwise

brianthebard · 16-01-2011 3:57am

TheZohan wrote: »

<facepalm>

Seriously.....

Aren't you a clever little facepalmer? How much corporation tax do you think Google pays? I'll give you a clue its nowhere near 12.5%...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

So many fools in this thread been listening with one ear to the pundits and think the corpo tax is the holy grail, well many companies here don't pay anywhere close to 12.5% and there are already countries in the EU/Europe with lower rates. Those of you who think the corporation tax is going to save this country are as narrow minded and silly as the fools who thought the construction sector would provide everlasting wealth.

PeakOutput · 16-01-2011 4:02am

brianthebard wrote: »

Those of you who think the corporation tax is going to save this country

i havnt seen anyone say that, have you?

brianthebard · 16-01-2011 4:03am

PeakOutput wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone say that, have you?

Yes many on this thread/forum think its our last sacred cow, the only functioning feature of our economy, our one and only hope.

eg;

Koloman wrote: »

It would send out the wrong signal. Even a 1% rise would frighten the multinational horses. Perception is everything in the global economy.

or this one;

PeakOutput wrote: »

i find this highly highly unlikely

any government who does this instantly signs their own death sentence

Chucky the tree · 16-01-2011 4:07am

brianthebard wrote: »

Aren't you a clever little facepalmer? How much corporation tax do you think Google pays? I'll give you a clue its nowhere near 12.5%...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

So many fools in this thread been listening with one ear to the pundits and think the corpo tax is the holy grail, well many companies here don't pay anywhere close to 12.5% and there are already countries in the EU/Europe with lower rates. Those of you who think the corporation tax is going to save this country are as narrow minded and silly as the fools who thought the construction sector would provide everlasting wealth.

What? We'd be screwed without the multinationals here.

PeakOutput · 16-01-2011 4:09am

brianthebard wrote: »

Yes many on this thread/forum think its our last sacred cow, the only functioning feature of our economy, our one and only hope.

eg;

or this one;

no1 said it would save the country though did they? your putting some effort into the strawmanning to make it sound absurd

all people have said is that changing our corporation tax will further seriously damage our economy and they would be right

brianthebard · 16-01-2011 4:13am

PeakOutput wrote: »

no1 said it would save the country though did they? your putting some effort into the strawmanning to make it sound absurd

all people have said is that changing our corporation tax will further seriously damage our economy and they would be right

They're saying its the only thing that this country has going for it now, ie that it will save the country. Try to keep up; you seem to have a problem distinguishing between interpretation or phrasing and strawman arguments. You clearly didn't read the link but with companies like Google paying an effective corporation tax of 2.4% I don't really think it will bother them at all if it went up to 20%, it would probably only raise the rate they pay a percentage, if that. But go ahead and enjoy your fantasies.

AnonymousPrime · 16-01-2011 4:16am

TheZohan wrote: »

Great news for the country:

Fair play to Intel.

Source.

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Hopefully this means one of my best mates can come home and not have to work anymore in Israel.

Take that Israel
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4211815/Report--Intel-gains-Israel-fab-grant-

PeakOutput · 16-01-2011 4:21am

brianthebard wrote: »

They're saying its the only thing that this country has going for it now,

its some leap from that

to

ie that it will save the country.

clearly im not the one having trouble interpreting what people are saying

edit: and for clarity 'To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.'

pretty much exactly what you did

brianthebard · 16-01-2011 4:30am

PeakOutput wrote: »

its some leap from that

to

clearly im not the one having trouble interpreting what people are saying

edit: and for clarity 'To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.'

pretty much exactly what you did

You said that a taoiseach raising the tax would instantly sign their government's death warrant and someone else said a 1% rise would frighten the mnc's, another poster said it will be funny to see the mass exodus of mnc's once the corp tax goes up. If you're happy now to pretend that didn't happen go ahead you're only deluding yourself.

SamHarris · 16-01-2011 11:34am

Nice to see the fiasco with the incinerator didn't ruin our reputation as a place to do business with big American corps.

Yay us!

Victor_M · 16-01-2011 12:22pm

^ wow even undeniably good news stories can end up in an argument in AH, impressive.

Regardless of the CT rate debate, this is very encouraging news for Ireland, & a good start to the new year.

HardyBuckFan · 16-01-2011 12:28pm

fair play to intel, i know the country is screwed but imagine how worse it would be if the big multinationals (intel, google, microsoft, faceboook, apple etcl) weren't here!
hopefully twitter will be next to relocate here

PeakOutput · 16-01-2011 1:13pm

brianthebard wrote: »

You said that a taoiseach raising the tax would instantly sign their government's death warrant and someone else said a 1% rise would frighten the mnc's, another poster said it will be funny to see the mass exodus of mnc's once the corp tax goes up. If you're happy now to pretend that didn't happen go ahead you're only deluding yourself.

yes i did say that, i didnt say why they would be signing their own death warrant (it would be viewed too much like not being able to stand up to the eu) and saying that is not the same as saying that leaving it how it is now will somehow miracolously save the country on its own

TheZohanS · 16-01-2011 1:42pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Aren't you a clever little facepalmer? How much corporation tax do you think Google pays? I'll give you a clue its nowhere near 12.5%...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

So many fools in this thread been listening with one ear to the pundits and think the corpo tax is the holy grail, well many companies here don't pay anywhere close to 12.5% and there are already countries in the EU/Europe with lower rates. Those of you who think the corporation tax is going to save this country are as narrow minded and silly as the fools who thought the construction sector would provide everlasting wealth.

You do realise the difference between the wealth generated by these multinational or national companies that manufacture primarily for export and the wealth generated by the construction sector for housing etc?

Have you been following the news at all with regards to what the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland have said? Or are they just pundits too? Do you know who called the Irish Corporation Tax Ireland's "jewel in it's crown" recently and advised us not to change it?

To come into this thread and call posters "fools" is bad form, I am disappoint.

lucernarian · 16-01-2011 1:53pm

As happy as I am that 200 long term jobs are being created, I'm not so happy that they're based with a company like Intel Ireland. There is no organised labour movement within that site, which for one of its size is rather peculiar in this country.

This website: http://www.faceintel.com/leixlip.htm seems to elaborate on this in greater detail. I do regard it as containing a lot of biased claims about former employees, one can only assume people generally will more likely speak poorly of people who fired them or created a poor work atmosphere etc.

But I have met people who work in Intel and who used to work there in my time. They all have little good to say about that company. Unaccommodating work practices (particularly in terms of shift hours and the likes), mediocre wages for the large majority of staff and only statutory entitlements shown.

I note that the great places to work list: http://greatplacetowork.ie/best/list-ie-2010.htm mentions Intel, but specifically excludes the Leixlip plant while including Intel's operations in Shannon.

While I've seen nothing definitive and I won't start criticising job creation at Intel Leixlip, I am still a bit wary to offer them praise for making a commercial decision. Apologies if this sounds a little bit like doom-and-gloom on my part!

And in regard to Corporation Tax, I understood that many of the multinationals here were taking advantage more of tax loopholes than of the corporation tax rate. I would love if a study was done to investigate what companies would lose out most and lose out least were corporation tax increased either by 1.5% or up to 5% etc.

Unregistered. · 17-01-2011 1:22am

Does anybody know what they'll be researching / manufacturing?

TeddyTedson · 17-01-2011 3:32am

Koloman wrote: »

It would send out the wrong signal. Even a 1% rise would frighten the multinational horses. Perception is everything in the global economy.

I don't see why we're sending out the message to these companies in the first place that we're a shower of idiots that will make your rich shareholders richer while we f*ck over our own people. I thought everyone was supposed to be taking a hit in this recession!
Who's the next lowest after us?

PeakOutput · 17-01-2011 3:37am

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I don't see why we're sending out the message to these companies in the first place that we're a shower of idiots that will make your rich shareholders richer while we f*ck over our own people. I thought everyone was supposed to be taking a hit in this recession!
Who's the next lowest after us?

clueless

TeddyTedson · 17-01-2011 3:42am

PeakOutput wrote: »

clueless

Apparently so.

x in the city · 17-01-2011 4:06am

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

As happy as I am that 200 long term jobs are being created, I'm not so happy that they're based with a company like Intel Ireland. There is no organised labour movement within that site, which for one of its size is rather peculiar in this country.

This website: http://www.faceintel.com/leixlip.htm seems to elaborate on this in greater detail. I do regard it as containing a lot of biased claims about former employees, one can only assume people generally will more likely speak poorly of people who fired them or created a poor work atmosphere etc.

But I have met people who work in Intel and who used to work there in my time. They all have little good to say about that company. Unaccommodating work practices (particularly in terms of shift hours and the likes), mediocre wages for the large majority of staff and only statutory entitlements shown.

I note that the great places to work list: http://greatplacetowork.ie/best/list-ie-2010.htm mentions Intel, but specifically excludes the Leixlip plant while including Intel's operations in Shannon.

While I've seen nothing definitive and I won't start criticising job creation at Intel Leixlip, I am still a bit wary to offer them praise for making a commercial decision. Apologies if this sounds a little bit like doom-and-gloom on my part!

And in regard to Corporation Tax, I understood that many of the multinationals here were taking advantage more of tax loopholes than of the corporation tax rate. I would love if a study was done to investigate what companies would lose out most and lose out least were corporation tax increased either by 1.5% or up to 5% etc.

not impressed by them either, did an interview with them and after a 4 hour drive was not even offered as much as water.

and one guy interviewing me had as weak a hand shake as an imp, i think i broke his wrist at the end

served him right.

themont85 · 17-01-2011 4:21am

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I don't see why we're sending out the message to these companies in the first place that we're a shower of idiots that will make your rich shareholders richer while we f*ck over our own people. I thought everyone was supposed to be taking a hit in this recession!
Who's the next lowest after us?

These companies aren't Irish and even then all companies of Irish origin who trade heavily on the global market aren't much either. They can get up and go at any time. There is little loyalty. A slight increase in costs could tip the scale in how attractive Ireland is to locate in. This means thousands of jobs lost, less tax and more dole paid out. So yeah we should raise the tax.

12.5% is Brand Ireland at the moment.

PeakOutput · 17-01-2011 4:30am

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Apparently so.

sorry, what the other guys said

i was in a wierd mood earlier if you believe what you said i dont really think it makes you clueless, i think it makes you wrong but not clueless.

SpatialPlanning · 17-01-2011 5:10am

Also, were Ireland to raise CT by even 1%, what's to stop companies from thinking it won't happen again year after year?

Ireland must remain at a flat rate without change if it wants to foster FDI growth.

TeddyTedson · 17-01-2011 7:33am

themont85 wrote: »

These companies aren't Irish and even then all companies of Irish origin who trade heavily on the global market aren't much either. They can get up and go at any time. There is little loyalty. A slight increase in costs could tip the scale in how attractive Ireland is to locate in. This means thousands of jobs lost, less tax and more dole paid out. So yeah we should raise the tax.

12.5% is Brand Ireland at the moment.

I remember that Dave McWilliams said something about lots of companies having profit they've made here but can't take it out of the country or they'll be taxed on it. Can't a deal be done.

PeakOutput wrote: »

sorry, what the other guys said

i was in a wierd mood earlier if you believe what you said i dont really think it makes you clueless, i think it makes you wrong but not clueless.

lol, no problem pal. You're probably right, it's just annoying. We don't want to be like China, we should be looking to be more like the french. I don't care about being rich, just want an easy going life.

the_syco · 17-01-2011 12:38pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Ireland will recover and the first step is to elect Fine Gael to office whom will manage to stabilise the country (Don't expect miracles) however they will lay the ground work for the economy to recover and it is little victories like this that will get Ireland back on track to somewhere near the late nineties economic stability and correction.

It is already stabilising. The policies FF put in place has encouraged Intel to input monies into the Leixlip plant, as opposed to the plant in Israel.

thecornflake wrote: »

Also , i would imagine the billions of dollars already invested in Ireland coupled with Ireland being one of their most successful locations helped their decision.

Huh? The moment the building is finished being built, it's out of date. There was a skeleton crew running the place, with voluntary redundancies offered every so often. They were producing a chip which was no longer in demand. The billions already invested would've been made back long ago.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

As happy as I am that 200 long term jobs are being created, I'm not so happy that they're based with a company like Intel Ireland. There is no organised labour movement within that site, which for one of its size is rather peculiar in this country.

"organised labour movement" = union?

th3 s1aught3r · 17-01-2011 1:29pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Great news for the country:

Fair play to Intel.

Source.

Yeah lets all have a party. Go on a spending spree , buy houses, let the banks off, re-elect Fianna Fail
and end up back where we are in ten years time :rolleyes:

De Dannan · 17-01-2011 1:58pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Great news for the country:

Is it?
Good news for those who will get jobs in Intel for sure, and the economy, for a while.....
I would worry about our continued reliance on foreign multinationals. Eventually all these companies WILL LEAVE. Where is Dell now ?
Its just a matter of time and profit margins for them. Dont kid yourself that they are here forever and love Ireland , they will remain just as long as they want to
We should be focusing on Irish companies and creating them. I know its not as glamouress , but we need an indigenous economy . imo

Hail 2 Da Thief · 17-01-2011 2:06pm

Great to hear jobs are being created!

delonglad · 17-01-2011 2:11pm

De Dannan wrote: »

Is it?
Good news for those who will get jobs in Intel for sure, and the economy, for a while.....
I would worry about our continued reliance on foreign multinationals. Eventually all these companies WILL LEAVE. Where is Dell now ?
Its just a matter of time and profit margins for them. Dont kid yourself that they are here forever and love Ireland , they will remain just as long as they want to
We should be focusing on Irish companies and creating them. I know its not as glamouress , but we need an indigenous economy . imo

I'd love for Ireland to take the bull by the horns and invest in a home grown technology based large business. Why cant we start making chips etc?? We have the brains to do so, the dutch are coming to Ireland hiring because they don't have the technical manpower to hire over here. I was lucky to get a job after college although I had to leave Ireland to get work in my sector. I would move home in the drop of the hat if the opportunity arose.

TheZohanS · 17-01-2011 2:18pm

De Dannan wrote: »

Is it?
Good news for those who will get jobs in Intel for sure, and the economy, for a while.....
I would worry about our continued reliance on foreign multinationals. Eventually all these companies WILL LEAVE. Where is Dell now ?
Its just a matter of time and profit margins for them. Dont kid yourself that they are here forever and love Ireland , they will remain just as long as they want to
We should be focusing on Irish companies and creating them. I know its not as glamouress , but we need an indigenous economy . imo

You do know the difference between the type of output that Intel have and the type of output that Dell had? Yes there is no guarantee that Intel will stay here forever, but the fact that they are investing €500m in their Kildare plant means that they are committed to staying put in the medium term.

In the long run we are all dead - John Maynard Keynes

You say that we should be focussing on Irish companies, true but lets look at the UK. Dyson is a British brand, was given huge tax breaks by the British Government and was heralded as a great British success story. Where are they manufactured now? Malaysia, that's where. As soon as the company grew Mr Dyson pulled the plug on the UK manufacturing plants and moved manufacturing over to Asia with the loss of over 800 jobs to the British economy.

So which would you rather have, the Dysons of the world who are indigenous but "up and move" after a couple of years or Intel who have been here since 1989?

Lumen · 17-01-2011 2:22pm

delonglad wrote: »

I'd love for Ireland to take the bull by the horns and invest in a home grown technology based large business. Why cant we start making chips etc?? We have the brains to do so...

By "Ireland" I assume you mean the Irish government spending taxpayers money. Governments are often bad at spending our money, particularly on things which involve risk and creativity.

Their role should be to create the legislative and regulatatory conditions for investment, not to chuck subsidies around.

The corp tax rate is an example of creating conditions for investment, although as with all market distortions it's not without downsides.

TBH, if the only thing we had to offer is the low CTR, we'd be properly fúcked. Fortunately there are other good reasons to invest in Ireland, like its internationally competitive population of highly skilled keyboard warriors.

ScumLord · 17-01-2011 2:28pm

delonglad wrote: »

I'd love for Ireland to take the bull by the horns and invest in a home grown technology based large business. Why cant we start making chips etc?? We have the brains to do so, the dutch are coming to Ireland hiring because they don't have the technical manpower to hire over here. I was lucky to get a job after college although I had to leave Ireland to get work in my sector. I would move home in the drop of the hat if the opportunity arose.

I don't think successful companies start off large, we can't just jump in at the deep end and start making chips. It's to much time and investment and when it comes to manufacturing we'll be on the back foot trying to compete with cheaper countries to manufacture in. We'll also alienate the established companies like intel and all their partners.

The only option is to get in with the big boys like intel, just being part of that successful company can lead some of it's employees to start their own businesses whether they're spin off businesses or just businesses built on the knowledge gained from working with a company that's at the forefront of it's industry.

DoesNotCompute · 17-01-2011 2:56pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Great news for the country:

Fair play to Intel.

Source.

Well done Intel. Although they probably want to stay in Ireland so they can pull off tax breaks like the Double Irish or Dutch Sandwich, like Google. Hilarious.

peanuthead · 17-01-2011 4:29pm

peanuthead wrote: »

Who is the contractor for this project or is it even that far ahead yet?

No mention of when this is due to take off.

OH is in construction and has been out of work so long it's not even funny - this is great news for 850 lucky people in that sector!

Well, anyone know?

syklops · 17-01-2011 6:36pm

I worked for Intel in Leixlip for a while, as a manufacturing technician. While the job did pay about 33% more than any other job in my experience category, it was completely unskilled, and really really monotonous. My entire job could have been automated, but it wasn't because the government had agreed to certain tax breaks if Intel hired and employed X amount of people.

Some people loved it. One guy thought it was the best job you could have, you didn't need to think, you just went in, did it for 12 hours, 4 days a week and then got a 3 day weekend.

So as well as Corporation tax, I think Intel have gotten some really good deals from the government. To the point that they can hire about a 1000 people at 25k+ a year, despite those being being easily automated.

Plus the other thing is one of the chips they manufacture are for the US Military. If they moved the manufacturing of those chips to China, the pentagon would cancel their contract because they dont want to risk the Chinese getting their hands on the specs. So thats another shedload of money saved by keeping a plant in Leixlip.

AlmightyCushion · 17-01-2011 6:59pm

delonglad wrote: »

I'd love for Ireland to take the bull by the horns and invest in a home grown technology based large business. Why cant we start making chips etc??

Well there are the insanely high start up costs for a start. Where do you expect a start up company to get the billions required to build FABs and R&D? Then there's the fact it's incredibly cut throat. Intel are rolling in the dough and keep raking it in. AMD are doing some impressive things as well but they've been losing money for years (that might have changed recently I don't know). Then you have to try and get an x86 license. Good luck getting one of those. So that rules out x86 processors. We could always go down the ARM route but that's pretty dame competitive as well and startup costs I imagine are incredibly high just like x86.

I'm not saying we shouldn't promote local industry but we should be smart about it. Trying to take down intel is pretty much guaranteed to fail.

De Dannan wrote: »

Is it?
Good news for those who will get jobs in Intel for sure, and the economy, for a while.....
I would worry about our continued reliance on foreign multinationals. Eventually all these companies WILL LEAVE. Where is Dell now ?
Its just a matter of time and profit margins for them. Dont kid yourself that they are here forever and love Ireland , they will remain just as long as they want to
We should be focusing on Irish companies and creating them. I know its not as glamouress , but we need an indigenous economy . imo

Dell are still here. They still employee over 2,000 people in Ireland.

Intel you legends!

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