Schooled by an E-bike

Oberkon · 23-05-2019 10:32pm #1

First time I’ve seen this particularly up Howth head . A woman on a fat E bike shafted me going up the head this evening . I actually couldn’t believe how easy it was for her ..Anyone seen these Vulcano Fat E bikes ? No idea what speed they can achieve on the flat but really come into their own for commutes with hills. Was a bit of an eye opener out there

magicbastarder · 23-05-2019 10:42pm

saw a fat e-bike for the first time the other day. or is that an e-fat bike?

Plastik · 23-05-2019 10:48pm

A fatty bike.

Oberkon · 23-05-2019 10:50pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

saw a fat e-bike for the first time the other day. or is that an e-fat bike?

There is something surreal about it . I’ve seen plenty of e bikes but that’s the first time I’ve had someone blow me completely out of it on one , especially one like that . I was catching a bit on the downhill but didn’t last when we went up again

ED E · 23-05-2019 11:09pm

If they were really blasting it up they were likely on a >250W unit which is illegal, just FYI.

Oberkon · 23-05-2019 11:17pm

ED E wrote: »

If they were really blasting it up they were likely on a >250W unit which is illegal, just FYI.

First thing I thought alright .

Alek · 23-05-2019 11:23pm

If they were really blasting it up they were likely on a >250W unit which is illegal, just FYI.

You can keep a steady 25kph on any legal mid drive ebike up Howth, with little actual effort, which is "blasting" for many

Joe1919 · 24-05-2019 12:49am

ED E wrote: »

If they were really blasting it up they were likely on a >250W unit which is illegal, just FYI.

The 250w refers to 'continuous' maximum power. On hill climbs, the motor usually draws more current (e.g. 14 amps at 36v). For example, my own 250w bafang (Halfords, legal, unmodified) is rated as 500 w (electrical power) intermittent in the specs that came with bike, which could give about 350-400w (70-80% efficiency) extra mechanical power to the cycling effort (legs) of the cyclist.

strmin · 24-05-2019 8:02am

When I was in Spain, I saw some of those e-bikes doing 35-40km/h on 8-10% gradients. Did not surprise me at all. They are MOTORbikes afterall.

Canis Lupus · 24-05-2019 8:42am

Yeah I think you need to sort of put it out of your head that they're bicycles. They just look like them. Awesome method of transport if fitness isn't the end goal though.

1bryan · 24-05-2019 8:55am

e-bikes that have had their speed limiters disabled, are motorbikes. They have no place on our roads.

Duckjob · 24-05-2019 9:39am

1bryan wrote: »

e-bikes that have had their speed limiters disabled, are motorbikes. They have no place on our roads.

They're already illegal to be on the road (incidentally, the same way thousands of cars that have had undeclared power remaps' are, though that rarely seems to raise an eyebrow).

Motorbikes they are not though. An unrestricted ebike isn't going to get anything like the speed of a motorbike due to simple physics of power vs wind resistance.

ht9zni1gs28crp · 24-05-2019 9:44am

If your dissapointed that you got 'shafted' by an e-bike maybe its time for some self awareness classes!

Like saying I got shafted by a Ferrari at the lights in my Golf teediddlyeye its not fair...

unkel · 24-05-2019 9:50am

miller_63 wrote: »

Like saying I got shafted by a Ferrari at the lights in my Golf teediddlyeye its not fair...

Your Ferrari is more likely to get shafted at the lights by an eGolf :pac:

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 10:30am

whats the auld 0-60 on one of them bad boys hah?

odyssey06 · 24-05-2019 10:41am

Think of it as a Derny!

CantGetNoSleep · 24-05-2019 10:45am

I go to Switzerland a lot and you see a lot of commuters on speed pedelecs. Licence plate, wing mirrors and I think tax and insurance.

I was overtaken on my commute by one of those new Uber bikes yesterday though - basically like a Dublin Bike with a motor

Alkers · 24-05-2019 10:56am

1bryan wrote:

e-bikes that have had their speed limiters disabled, are motorbikes. They have no place on our roads.

It doesn't need a disabled speed limiter to get 20km/hr up a hill, which is where the OP said he was passed by one...

secman · 24-05-2019 11:11am

I know a chap who got one, its limited to 20 kph, very useful on climbs but tough on the flat if he needs to he at 28 to 30kph in a group. He had major heart surgery last year, practically died but brought back. He occasionally goes out on his normal road bike, most likely on the flat doing a solo spin. His regular bike is 7 Kg, the ebike is over 12kg. He's constantly watching his heart rate on his watch, understandable.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 11:37am

secman wrote: »

I know a chap who got one, its limited to 20 kph, very useful on climbs but tough on the flat if he needs to he at 28 to 30kph in a group. He had major heart surgery last year, practically died but brought back. He occasionally goes out on his normal road bike, most likely on the flat doing a solo spin. His regular bike is 7 Kg, the ebike is over 12kg. He's constantly watching his heart rate on his watch, understandable.

getting one limited to 20k seems illogical

really 30kph is where the limit should be at, a usable speed on the flat and be great on the uphill

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 11:48am

it's not a 'limit' on the bike, you can still do 30km/h if you want, as long as you're willing to pedal it to that speed.

grogi · 24-05-2019 11:50am

Oberkon wrote: »

First time I’ve seen this particularly up Howth head . A woman on a fat E bike shafted me going up the head this evening . I actually couldn’t believe how easy it was for her ..Anyone seen these Vulcano Fat E bikes ? No idea what speed they can achieve on the flat but really come into their own for commutes with hills. Was a bit of an eye opener out there

The assistance should switch off at 25kmh, so on the flats you're on your own.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 11:52am

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not a 'limit' on the bike, you can still do 30km/h if you want, as long as you're willing to pedal it to that speed.

it's not a 'Limit' on the bike

It's a 'limit' on the electric assistance

but a limit all the same

loyatemu · 24-05-2019 12:01pm

I was going along Merrion Road at about 25km/h the other day and was overtaken like I wasn't moving at all by a guy on a very fancy looking eBike. Clearly chipped - he was drafting a bus too for extra crazy points.

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 12:04pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

really 30kph is where the limit should be at, a usable speed on the flat and be great on the uphill

surely 25km/h is a usable speed on the flat? you'd need to be a fit cyclist to sustain 30km/h on a normal bike.

i just think e-bike proponents should be wary of the 'we want to go faster' approach; if they change the regs they might change the conditions too.

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 12:05pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I was going along Merrion Road at about 25km/h the other day and was overtaken like I wasn't moving at all by a guy on a very fancy looking eBike. Clearly chipped - he was drafting a bus too for extra crazy points.

i was doing 37km/h on the rock road last summer and was passed by a guy in a suit on a bike, who pretty much left me standing.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:12pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

surely 25km/h is a usable speed on the flat? you'd need to be a fit cyclist to sustain 30km/h on a normal bike.

i just think e-bike proponents should be wary of the 'we want to go faster' approach; if they change the regs they might change the conditions too.

nah

what does fit mean exactly?

easy enough to keep up 30kph on the flat really, this is point to point now, not including stops for roundabouts, traffic lights etc, which would affect overall speed, but would affect leccy and non leccy alike

this is a drop handle bars bike now

the perfect example is the guy with the 20kph bike, goosed in probably a pretty average group spin as he is now lugging around a monster bike with no assist, just to get an assist on the hills when it goes below 20kph

1bryan · 24-05-2019 12:13pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

getting one limited to 20k seems illogical

really 30kph is where the limit should be at, a usable speed on the flat and be great on the uphill

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:16pm

1bryan wrote: »

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

no it's not

you dont' have to go 30kph if you choose to not

sure if it's 25k, is that not ridiculous

and now how did measure this average speed?

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:18pm

1bryan wrote: »

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

it's a speed limit, not a target :pac:

1bryan · 24-05-2019 12:19pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

it's a speed limit, not a target :pac:

ah grand, so we'll let cars and motorbikes into the cycle lanes so

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:21pm

1bryan wrote: »

ah grand, so we'll let cars and motorbikes into the cycle lanes so

not sure what you are getting at exactly

are you saying someone at 30kph on a bike is some sort of speed demon or something? should we have a man with a flag walk in front of them?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 12:23pm

the reason bikes have been excluded from so much of the regulations surrounding other modes of transport is precisely because they have - until a few years ago - been unpowered. now people have e-bikes, and some people on e-bikes want to go faster. you can. get a licence, helmet, insurance, etc.
i worry that this argument for faster e-bikes will be used as a trojan horse by some lawmakers to force helmets on all cyclists, on the pretext that it's too much cognitive load on the authorities to have to distinguish between the various different modes available on e-bikes.

the biggest problems facing e-bike users on the roads are the same problems facing 'normal' cyclists.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:28pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the reason bikes have been excluded from so much of the regulations surrounding other modes of transport is precisely because they have - until a few years ago - been unpowered. now people have e-bikes, and some people on e-bikes want to go faster. you can. get a licence, helmet, insurance, etc.
i worry that this argument for faster e-bikes will be used as a trojan horse by some lawmakers to force helmets on all cyclists, on the pretext that it's too much cognitive load on the authorities to have to distinguish between the various different modes available on e-bikes.

the biggest problems facing e-bike users on the roads are the same problems facing 'normal' cyclists.

you can already go faster than 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 on a normal bike

so I wouldn't really be worrying yourself like that

they don't enforce the laws they already have

Alkers · 24-05-2019 12:38pm

1bryan wrote:

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

5uspect · 24-05-2019 12:44pm

I’m decided I’m going to get an e-bike in a few months. Probably a Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0. Over the last year my commute has increased from 8 to 19 and now to 24 km each way.

The shorter commute was easy and I would cycle every day. I could manage the 19 km commute three or four days a week but the 24 km is too much for me to sustain at that frequency and not be utterly exhausted for work and family.

I mainly cycle because it’s faster than other modes of transport (it’s not a hobby) and I would average 20 km/h on my commute. With the e-bike I would be a lot more confident cycling along the N4 as I could maintain a steady 25 km/h and then cycle as normal through the city. I could even take a more scenic route through Strawberry Beds and not worry about the nasty hill at the Angler’s Rest.

From my test spins on e-bikes the assist is really just a multiplier of your input power up to 25 km/h. Thereafter all the power drops away and you feel all the weight of a heavy push bike. If someone is fitter than me and has a lighter bike than my trusty old hybrid then they have a power advantage. The e-bike just levels that. It doesn’t propel you by itself you have to put some effort in to get 2 or 3X power out.

I’ve I’ve no interest in speed hacking but I’ve seen a couple of idiots with clearly modified bikes. It’s pretty easy to spot so hopefully can be clamped down on for the sake of the rest of us.

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:06pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

look at it this way - if your cycle/commute is 10km, the theoretical maximum time saved between a maximum speed of 30km/h vs. 25kh/h is four minutes. in reality, it's going to be significantly less than that.

(FWIW, it's a 20 minute cycle at 30km/h, without stopping; and 24 minutes at 25km/h - and i suspect that low end acceleration is every bit as important as top end speed)

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:08pm

1bryan wrote: »

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

Data from the 2006 Census reveals that, for journeys within the Dublin Canal Ring, cyclists reached an average speed of 12 km/h compared to just 15km/h for cars.

https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-speed/

1bryan · 24-05-2019 1:22pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-speed/

apologies, I stand corrected. By my mistake strengthens my argument.

1bryan · 24-05-2019 1:23pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

apologies, the average speed of a cycle commute in Dublin is 12km/h. I was mistaken when I said 19km/h

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:32pm

that's journeys within the canals, not in dublin as a whole, it should be pointed out.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 1:39pm

1bryan wrote: »

apologies, I stand corrected. By my mistake strengthens my argument.

that the limit on the assist should be 12kph?

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 1:42pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's journeys within the canals, not in dublin as a whole, it should be pointed out.

but what has this go to do against the 25kph limit being good and the 30kph limit being bad?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:48pm

i was responding to a post about the average speed of bikes in dublin in general.

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:01pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

that the limit on the assist should be 12kph?

please tell me where I said it should be 12km/h

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:01pm

i'd love to know how they come up with this number other than compiling guesses

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:03pm

1bryan wrote: »

please tell me where I said it should be 12km/h

you were using it as reasoning for the limit on the assist being 25, as you thought it was 19, aren't you going to reduce this limit :pac:

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:06pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

you were using it as reasoning for the limit on the assist being 25, as you thought it was 19, aren't you going to reduce this limit :pac:

not sure what you are getting at exactly

I think a 25km/h assist cutoff point seems reasonable. Anything higher does not seem reasonable. I cited the average speed of a Dublin cycle commute to highlight why.

any more questions?

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:09pm

1bryan wrote: »

not sure what you are getting at exactly

I think a 25km/h assist cutoff point seems reasonable. Anything higher does not seem reasonable. I cited the average speed of a Dublin cycle commute to highlight why.

any more questions?

but you haven't made any reason as to why

cars can get up to 30 and 50 and only average 18 (apparently)

so should they be limited to 25?

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:10pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

but you haven't made any reason as to why

cars can get up to 30 and 50 and only average 18 (apparently)

so should they be limited to 25?

ok, last from me on this because you're borderline trolling now.

Cars don't share the cycle lanes with bikes, the average commute on which, in Dublin, is 12km/h.

Have a great weekend.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:15pm

zero trolling here have a good one

Schooled by an E-bike

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