WOW air discussion thread

LXFlyer · 28-03-2019 9:52am

No great surprise unfortunately - the mood music has not been good for some time.

Yet another low cost long haul operator bites the dust.

basill · 28-03-2019 10:01am

No great shame. Grab market share by deep discounting below cost forcing established airlines to cut fares, yields, wages etc. Contribute little to the local economies that they operate into and no doubt will leave a number of Irish companies out of pocket with their demise. At least the industry is buoyant for those out of work that have had the misfortune to be associated with this outfit.

troyzer · 28-03-2019 10:03am

Surely Norweigan are next. Low cost/long haul doesn't work. Ryanair were right to bide their time.

Yours sincerely,

An idiot who knows nothing about aviation so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tenger · 28-03-2019 10:27am

Saw an a US spotters group that the KEF-BOS flight landed and after disembarkation was towed to a cargo area. Pax had already been checked in the BOS-KEF flight. Flight was scheduled at 2340 Irish time. Notice said ‘ceased operations’ ‘options to rebook may be avail on other airlines”, “more info at 9am” (8am Irish)

https://www.thejournal.ie/icelandic-budget-airline-wow-air-suspends-all-flights-4564484-Mar2019/

Getting stranded in KEF might be a bad situation.

Nijmegen · 28-03-2019 10:33am

We'll see Alex Macheras all over the media now today. Man is like the grim reaper of airline failures - Insta-stories in rapid succession with "exclusive" and "breaking" details of the failure and not one fig given for the staff affected. I hope passengers get where they need to go and that the staff find themselves back in a job somewhere ASAP.

duskyjoe · 28-03-2019 10:46am

troyzer wrote: »

Surely Norweigan are next.

i wouldn’t be surprised tbh

Locker10a · 28-03-2019 10:57am

Tenger wrote: »

Saw an a US spotters group that the KEF-BOS flight landed and after disembarkation was towed to a cargo area. Pax had already been checked in the BOS-KEF flight. Flight was scheduled at 2340 Irish time. Notice said ‘ceased operations’ ‘options to rebook may be avail on other airlines”, “more info at 9am” (8am Irish)

https://www.thejournal.ie/icelandic-budget-airline-wow-air-suspends-all-flights-4564484-Mar2019/

Getting stranded in KEF might be a bad situation.

Unfortunate for Icelandair that they can’t swoop in with extra rescue flights due to their MAX grounding

Limpy · 28-03-2019 10:59am

Or Norwegian become the Monopoly !! They would have filled many planes right now if they could capitalise on wow's demise.

SimpleLogic · 28-03-2019 11:07am

Any chance this could free up some planes which Norwegian could rent, to accommodate the grounded boeing 737's?

Wheety · 28-03-2019 11:10am

troyzer wrote: »

Surely Norweigan are next. Low cost/long haul doesn't work. Ryanair were right to bide their time.

Yours sincerely,

An idiot who knows nothing about aviation so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Another one here who knows nothing apart from a passing interest but wasn't Ryanair's 'plan' to only sell economy cheap but have a very good business class which would cover the discounts on economy seats. I don't think WOW did this? Were they completely low cost?

faoiarvok · 28-03-2019 11:12am

SimpleLogic wrote: »

Any chance this could free up some planes which Norwegian could rent, to accommodate the grounded boeing 737's?

It’s an all-Airbus fleet, so they couldn’t operate them themselves. Simpler to wet lease from an established operator, which they haven’t done thus far for whatever reasons.

Locker10a · 28-03-2019 11:16am

SimpleLogic wrote: »

Any chance this could free up some planes which Norwegian could rent, to accommodate the grounded boeing 737's?

Norwegian don’t operate an airbus themselves so no.
Anyway, the a320/1 that wow had leased wouldn’t have the range to replace the MAX that Norwegian have.
Wows fleet were all leased, so the owners of those aircraft will simply deploy them to new customers whom I’m sure are lined up

Locker10a · 28-03-2019 11:19am

faoiarvok wrote: »

It’s an all-Airbus fleet, so they couldn’t operate them themselves. Simpler to wet lease from an established operator, which they haven’t done thus far for whatever reasons.

Norwegian are going through a cost restructuring called “Focus 2019” to try and salvage themselves from a fate similar to wow.
So they’re probably seriously restricting themselves on paying out for expensive wetlease contracts.

the_syco · 28-03-2019 11:38am

Shall be booking flights to Toronto soon; would have avoided WOW because of this thread, but how are Norwegian, as they're doing flights for cheap enough.

May go with BA, as their flights are cheap'ish, but probably less likely to go down the drain before August.

Brennus335 · 28-03-2019 11:46am

Nijmegen wrote: »

We'll see Alex Macheras all over the media now today. Man is like the grim reaper of airline failures - Insta-stories in rapid succession with "exclusive" and "breaking" details of the failure and not one fig given for the staff affected. I hope passengers get where they need to go and that the staff find themselves back in a job somewhere ASAP.

Called him out a few times on his Twitter feed for inaccurate and sensationalist bullsh1t stories.

He responded by blocking me.

Nijmegen · 28-03-2019 11:58am

Brennus335 wrote: »

Called him out a few times on his Twitter feed for inaccurate and sensationalist bullsh1t stories.

He responded by blocking me.

Strikes me as a rich kid with contacts who suddenly appeared a prepackaged product with no actual life experience. The latter really tells when he gets to reporting on these airline failures, when Monarch went he was reporting "exclusively" in breathless instagram videos before the staff had been fully informed. One thing for a journo to get the story early, quite another when the guy reporting it seems most excited about having the news first and that's the context you're wading through as an employee.

Locker10a · 28-03-2019 12:12pm

the_syco wrote: »

Shall be booking flights to Toronto soon; would have avoided WOW because of this thread, but how are Norwegian, as they're doing flights for cheap enough.

May go with BA, as their flights are cheap'ish, but probably less likely to go down the drain before August.

I’ve a few friends at Norwegian and think they’re a nice company, but sadly I personally wouldn’t book any flights with them. They were in bad enough shape abs now with the MAX grounding who knows what will happen to those Canada flights

BelovedAunt · 28-03-2019 12:37pm

Lads I have flights booked with them for June. Any chance of getting money back through travel insurance?

28-03-2019 12:39pm

BelovedAunt wrote: »

Lads I have flights booked with them for June. Any chance of getting money back through travel insurance?

If you booked with a credit card go to them first.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 28-03-2019 1:33pm

Wow's pricing model was very strange.

Often I saw them selling flights with basic fares (not even a 10kg carry on, no food at all) for €500+ each way.

Some times they'd be €99. And this was booking way in advance.

I actually flew to Toronto with them for €120 return before. Was brilliant but only included my backpack.

Expensive baggage costs also per leg which added up to make them most of he time, more expensive than the legacy carriers.

Plus, KEF is an absolute nightmare for a layover. Rip off prices for everything. Sandwiches in a shop €12-€15+...

Obviously a shame to see them go but I did wonder how they managed to survive this long.

grimm2005 · 28-03-2019 1:49pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Wow's pricing model was very strange.

Often I saw them selling flights with basic (not even a 10kg carry on) for €500+ each way.

Some times they'd be €99.

I actually flew to Toronto with them for €120 return before. Was brilliant but only included my backpack.

Expensive baggage costs also per leg which added up to make them most of he time, more expensive than the legacy carriers.

Plus, KEF is an absolute nightmare for a layover. Rip off prices for everything. Sandwiches in a shop €12-€15+...

Obviously a shame to see them go but I did wonder how they managed to survive this long.

Yeah I had intended to use them for a trip to Iceland at some point but their stingy baggage policy and the weird prices meant I could never really consider them for transatlantic. For a longer trip like that, I'd want a 10kg carry on but adding one on was something crazy like €40 per leg, automatically adding €80 to the fare and much of the time pushing it above a direct flight with a legacy carrier.

Definitely not a good thing to lose competition in the market, but when you compare them with Norwegian for low cost transatlantic, the choice is obvious for me, with a direct flight (granted, to a distant airport), proper baggage allowance and pretty consistent pricing. If they go as well which seems almost likely at this point, it'll be the nail in the coffin for low cost transatlantic carriers for the foreseeable future I reckon.

California Dreamer · 28-03-2019 2:00pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Plus, KEF is an absolute nightmare for a layover. Rip off prices for everything. Sandwiches in a shop €12-€15+...

Thats not just KEF, Iceland is a very expensive country.

the_syco · 28-03-2019 2:28pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Wow's pricing model was very strange.

Often I saw them selling flights with basic fares (not even a 10kg carry on, no food at all) for €500+ each way.

Some times they'd be €99. And this was booking way in advance.

IIRC, Iceland tourism subsidized it? I'm wondering if perhaps the money was pulled as the tourism angle wasn't working as well as they hoped.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 28-03-2019 2:54pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

Thats not just KEF, Iceland is a very expensive country.

Absolutely!

Was there for 5 days and came home nearly broke!

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 28-03-2019 2:55pm

the_syco wrote: »

IIRC, Iceland tourism subsidized it? I'm wondering if perhaps the money was pulled as the tourism angle wasn't working as well as they hoped.

Well they were advertising fares to the USA from €129 via DUB up to yesterday. I only received another promo email from them last night.

ongarboy · 28-03-2019 3:06pm

Media outlets will be now be deprived of all the press releases associated with announcing new flights from Dublin to St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinatti and other random second tier US cities etc with of course the unimportant detail of a stop over in Reykjavik curiously omitted.

I'm sorry to see any business go bust but I could never understand how an airline from a country with a population less than Cork offer more direct flights to the USA from Europe then any other airline and be profitable. The transit traffic from Europe they envisaged to sustain all those routes never seemed to materialize. I fly to the States about twice a year and I couldn't opt to go hours out of my way like that if I had direct flights from Europe (as we are blessed with choice from Dublin) or at least arrive in a hub like JFK, BOS, ORD etc and then have in many cases, hourly connecting flights to my final destination.

cson · 28-03-2019 3:10pm

They can offer those flights through an accident of geography.

Regardless, ULCC don't work transatlantic. You really need the J yields to make the routes viable.

LXFlyer · 28-03-2019 5:30pm

cson wrote: »

They can offer those flights through an accident of geography.

Regardless, ULCC don't work transatlantic. You really need the J yields to make the routes viable.

I think for many of us the fact that the Irish media swallowed the PR and gave so much exposure to them as offering Ireland-North America flights while not giving the same opportunity to, for example, BA, Lufthansa, Turkish, or Finnair through their respective hubs was very frustrating.

I’ve no beef with the airline per se and am sorry to see it go but an even pitch is needed. They got a lot of free publicity.

cson · 28-03-2019 7:18pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think for many of us the fact that the Irish media swallowed the PR and gave so much exposure to them as offering Ireland-North America flights while not giving the same opportunity to, for example, BA, Lufthansa, Turkish, or Finnair through their respective hubs was very frustrating.

I’ve no beef with the airline per se and am sorry to see it go but an even pitch is needed. They got a lot of free publicity.

They more than likely paid indirectly for that coverage through higher advertising fees paid to Irish outlets.

LXFlyer · 28-03-2019 7:27pm

cson wrote: »

They more than likely paid indirectly for that coverage through higher advertising fees paid to Irish outlets.

Not sure about that - they even got coverage on RTÉ News programmes.

It was way beyond what they should have got.

basill · 29-03-2019 11:33am

I would say they gave free trips to buy the column inches. Nice hotels, transfers etc.

grimm2005 · 29-03-2019 12:30pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Not sure about that - they even got coverage on RTÉ News programmes.

It was way beyond what they should have got.

I would say part of it was the headline price of €200 round trip to the states or whatever it was at the time was unheard of and likely got them a lot of free press.

Del2005 · 30-03-2019 11:49am

the_syco wrote: »

IIRC, Iceland tourism subsidized it? I'm wondering if perhaps the money was pulled as the tourism angle wasn't working as well as they hoped.

Could be the other way round, Iceland has reported problems of overtoursim

https://www.roughguides.com/special-features/overtourism-in-iceland/

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think for many of us the fact that the Irish media swallowed the PR and gave so much exposure to them as offering Ireland-North America flights while not giving the same opportunity to, for example, BA, Lufthansa, Turkish, or Finnair through their respective hubs was very frustrating.

I’ve no beef with the airline per se and am sorry to see it go but an even pitch is needed. They got a lot of free publicity.

I'd say it was the media overcompensating for a lack of good news about regional airports so they over hyped it. If they hadn't pushed the transAtlantic low cost carriers from Shannon and Cork people would be moaning about the news being Dublin centric, when they overhype the airlines PR the knowledgeable people talk amongst themselves.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-03-2019 12:39pm

Norwegian pulled the same trick...

California Dreamer · 05-04-2019 7:12am

Wow could be back!

https://turisti.is/2019/04/wow-air-founder-looking-to-revive-bankrupt-carrier/

jjbrien · 05-04-2019 1:42pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

Wow could be back!

https://turisti.is/2019/04/wow-air-founder-looking-to-revive-bankrupt-carrier/

I was surprised when i seen this. Seems they want to do charter services for other carriers then start back flying pax in June. Doubt they will get the funding who would want to invest in an airline that already went bust before.

Thirdfox · 05-04-2019 11:54pm

grimm2005 wrote: »

I would say part of it was the headline price of €200 round trip to the states or whatever it was at the time was unheard of and likely got them a lot of free press.

My friend and I had an awesome roadtrip around Florida (Key West, Everglades and Cape Canaveral) thanks to their flight to Miami for 230 euro return (including checked luggage!).

Sad to see them go but it was crazy to think people would stop over in Iceland for X hours when you can fly direct instead (unless the price was rock bottom).

California Dreamer · 06-04-2019 1:24pm

No love for Skuli to pull this off. 1100 people have lost jobs in WOW and the associated job losses from this will put Iceland in general in the sh1t house!

Leaving aside the salaries owed to staff. A lot of line pilots down 8-12k as well as cabin crew and the suppliers to the airline that were providing services up to the 11th hour.

Locker10a · 06-04-2019 1:50pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

No love for Skuli to pull this off. 1100 people have lost jobs in WOW and the associated job losses from this will put Iceland in general in the sh1t house!

Leaving aside the salaries owed to staff. A lot of line pilots down 8-12k as well as cabin crew and the suppliers to the airline that were providing services up to the 11th hour.

I think I read else where that they employed a huge amount of nurses as crew, and there was actually a small shortage of nurses in Iceland as a result and that most of those crew/nurses will be snapped up immediately into nursing roles. Obviously it’s not the same for everyone especially pilots. They had a few Irish pilots among other nationalities so I’d imagine the pilot group will disperse all over the place fairly quickly

theguzman · 07-04-2019 8:11pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I think I read else where that they employed a huge amount of nurses as crew, and there was actually a small shortage of nurses in Iceland as a result and that most of those crew/nurses will be snapped up immediately into nursing roles. Obviously it’s not the same for everyone especially pilots. They had a few Irish pilots among other nationalities so I’d imagine the pilot group will disperse all over the place fairly quickly

I had an ex-GF who qualified as a Nurse and then went onto do Cabin Crew in her early twenties for a few years and then went back to Nursing afterwards. Being a RN is a huge bonus when it comes to getting accepted for Cabin Crew service. I'm soon alot of young Icelandic women would love to work for Wow instead of being stuck in dreary cold and damp Iceland. Cabin Crew is a chance to travel the world, have fun and build some work experience, usually by young and attractive women, except in the US where it is seen as a real career.

Elaine762 · 07-04-2019 8:53pm

theguzman wrote: »

I had an ex-GF who qualified as a Nurse and then went onto do Cabin Crew in her early twenties for a few years and then went back to Nursing afterwards. Being a RN is a huge bonus when it comes to getting accepted for Cabin Crew service. I'm soon alot of young Icelandic women would love to work for Wow instead of being stuck in dreary cold and damp Iceland. Cabin Crew is a chance to travel the world, have fun and build some work experience, usually by young and attractive women, except in the US where it is seen as a real career.

In Aer Lingus mainline you meet many crew who have been working there over 20,30 even 40 years . I’d say it depends on the airline really

Tenger · 08-04-2019 11:25am

Elaine762 wrote: »

In Aer Lingus mainline you meet many crew who have been working there over 20,30 even 40 years . I’d say it depends on the airline really

BA, Lufty, Air France, KLM all similar. Lots of young crew but a solid core of older experienced people who have made it a career.
Although BA have a split in their crew between older 'legacy' fleet and recent hire ins (on lower wages) as part of their 'mixed fleet'

grimm2005 · 10-09-2019 2:22pm

Looks like WOW Air is re-commencing flights from October under new owners with a Washington Dulles to Keflavik International route: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857460/wow-air-comeback-october-iceland-us-airport-dulles-bankruptcy

Seems crazy to be bringing it back so soon, surely consumers would have little trust in the brand now and they haven't even started selling flights yet.

theguzman · 10-09-2019 2:24pm

grimm2005 wrote: »

Looks like WOW Air is re-commencing flights from October under new owners with a Washington Dulles to Keflavik International route: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857460/wow-air-comeback-october-iceland-us-airport-dulles-bankruptcy

Seems crazy to be bringing it back so soon, surely consumers would have little trust in the brand now and they haven't even started selling flights yet.

Two words: Travel Insurance.

However considering Norwegian is about to collapse any day now they might capture some of that traffic.

Limpy · 10-09-2019 2:40pm

If Norwegian did collapse, who would get the money Boeing owe them? Let's say there's no agreement on a payout and they go under. It would be a considerable sum I'd imagine for someone to pocket.

cson · 10-09-2019 2:42pm

grimm2005 wrote: »

Looks like WOW Air is re-commencing flights from October under new owners with a Washington Dulles to Keflavik International route: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857460/wow-air-comeback-october-iceland-us-airport-dulles-bankruptcy

Seems crazy to be bringing it back so soon, surely consumers would have little trust in the brand now and they haven't even started selling flights yet.

Consumers by and large don't give a **** so long as the price is right.

Key case in point is folks saying "they'll never fly Ryanair again after xyz happened". They inevitably do. It's not an apples to apples comparison with WOW but overall for long haul transatlantic Y pax, price is the overriding concern.

Limpy · 10-09-2019 2:43pm

Just to add there's speculation about a recession forthcoming due to previous trends.
People would either travel less or travel more budget friendly if a recession came.

grimm2005 · 10-09-2019 4:47pm

cson wrote: »

Consumers by and large don't give a **** so long as the price is right.

Key case in point is folks saying "they'll never fly Ryanair again after xyz happened". They inevitably do. It's not an apples to apples comparison with WOW but overall for long haul transatlantic Y pax, price is the overriding concern.

True but I would have thought threat of the company collapsing would make people think twice, certainly I would be a bit weary of booking with Norwegian at the moment myself.

blackwhite · 16-09-2019 5:24pm

Limpy wrote: »

If Norwegian did collapse, who would get the money Boeing owe them? Let's say there's no agreement on a payout and they go under. It would be a considerable sum I'd imagine for someone to pocket.

If they do end up going to the wall, then there will be a long bankruptcy/administration process with the end goal of recovering as much value as possible for their creditors.
The bankruptcy/administration process wouldn't be allowed to close without obtaining any material balances owed to Norwegian - or the right to those balances being transferred on for the benefit of the creditors.

GM228 · 23-09-2019 12:05pm

With Michele Ballarin purchasing the assets of WOW and relaunching does anyone know if this includes the rights to the undelivered A330neos at Tolouse or are they under the control of Avolon (but with no home to go to?).

WOW air discussion thread

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