How clean is electric car?

Anothe point of view here to ingnite the disagreement...

To my knowledge an ICE would have 100 times more moving parts as opposed to an EV... 20 vs 2000 or so...
Logically speaking, someone has to produce and keep spares for 100 times more parts. How clean’s that environmentally wise? With 100 times more parts a large amount would likely fail/get worn over the life time of the car - waste goes somewhere as there’s no 100% recycling here.
Let’s add the engine oil changes... here it becomes nasty!

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

Yes... and usually when you bring a 'broken' car to a 'mechanic' they'll most likely say... "not worth fixing, scrap 'er and buy a new one"
DPF issues, cars with high mileage burning oil, timing chain or belt failures... some of the 'minor' issues that effectively write off a car of a certain value/age. Generally speaking ICE cars pre 2008 are getting worthless by the day, primarily because of road tax.
And as for not being able to 'push' EV's.... 100% of the broken down ICE cars arrive to my workshop on the back of a transporter, in 40 odd years I've yet to see a customer push one from where it broke down.
Repairing EV's is a simple case of re educating yourself in the procedures required, nothing more.
I know mechanics who can't or wont fix certain brands of modern cars.
People need to get over this debate about EV's as opposed to anything else. They are simply an alternative. No one is forcing anyone to buy one.
And as for where do you bring them if they break down... I would have thought that was pretty obvious....
Nissan
Renault
Hyundai for example....
I'm fairly certain they have a dealer network.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

EVs are exact same as ICE to repair with a huge difference in the likelihood something to go wrong with it due to it’s construction

1 Tesla went on fire - all over the news and the story was chewed for months.
In year 2017 in USA alone 168 000! cars went on fire and nobody gives a monkey (the only positive is that the car fires were decreased from 456 000! in 1980)
How about that?
How environmentally friendly is that?!?

And let’s sum up here some personal experience:
110000km over 3 years and 3 Leafs in total.
151 L24 - after six months of owning - heat pump failure - replaced under warranty
161 L30 - 3 years into it’s life - wheel bearing - replaced under warranty
151 L24 - zip/zero/nada issues

A lad that got his Leaf totalled in a crash a couple of weeks ago had 180000km and not even brake pads changed in it...
Or the other lad with 240 something thousand km in his with a washer bottle replaced...


I personally know of a lad who changed 2! engines in his 151 Nissan Quashqai
And only in the last six months I had 2 colleagues with engines gone in their ‘08 and ‘12 Ford Focus’s and you know what - both of them are looking now to get an EV.

I stand correct here but as far as I remember on the official presentation of the L40 in Dublin it was announced that for 260 000 Leafs sold globally there were a total of 3 cars that failed and had to be replaced.
Or the Nissan mechanics themselves discussing the most reliable car they’ve seen with the least repairs required - Leaf...

So, I totally disagree with you on this

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You can use jerry cans or a generator. Can you charge an EV from a generator?

Absolutely yes.

DarioFER wrote: »

Electric cars are clean if they are sources through the renewable sources.

Which is very easy to do if your supplier sources 100% of their energy from renewables.

Some people argue that you can't ensure that all your electrons come from those renewable sources as it's the one grid. Of course you can't but it's irrelevant, for every kWh you use an equivalent kWh has been generated renewably somewhere in the country.

And just to be totally pedantic, practically none of the electrons you use have ever been in any kind of generator, renewable or fossil powered. The circuit that powers your home is totally isolated from the power station by several transformers

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How many people live in apartments? How will they charge their cars? Who's going to pay to fit out all these chargepoints? Won't the huge increased demand send the price of electricity skyrocketing?

I live in an apartment, with an assigned space and adjacent storage unit - which conveniently has power that goes to my meter. I only have a PHEV right now so the standard 13A sockets do me fine, but if I change to a full EV I would need to investigate upgrading that to 32A - and I expect I would be the one paying for that. But the homeowners could just say no (I'm renting) - I think there needs to be legal framework for EV charging installation, especially for tenants. People with only on-street parking are in an even worse position.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .

Who the hell pushes their car to a mechanic? lol
Many (most?) car insurers offer breakdown cover, so it's probably going on a flatbed anyway.
As others have said, there's less to go wrong, and they generally don't go wrong.

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. And may I say thank you to the tax payers who gave me €10k subsidy for buying one? And the free home charger plus free installation of same. And the free public charging.

The shameful era of paying subsidies for people buying cancerous diesels has hopefully come to an end.

Just to be clear...My daily driver is a 20 year old Land Rover with a diesel engine (which I use to tow loads of turf, and broken down cars), I burn turf in a range which heats my house and cooks my food.
I think wind turbines are beautiful looking machines, akin to a modern version of steam powered engines, and if I could I'd love a smaller version in my back garden to 'power' the house. Our 'family' car is a 12 year old petrol. I'd love an electric powered car, as even one with a short range would suit our needs. I've been looking at cheap Leafs, there is one on Donedeal at the moment for close on 6k, so they are getting more affordable.
But on the EV's versus ICE debate lets' try a little test...
In the next post substitute an electric car and type in 'steam engine'
And substitute a normal diesel or petrol car with 'horse'
It's also about time we had some posts from the FLA on here, they've been suspiciously absent from the debate...

swarlb wrote: »

Yes... and usually when you bring a 'broken' car to a 'mechanic' they'll most likely say... "not worth fixing, scrap 'er and buy a new one"
DPF issues, cars with high mileage burning oil, timing chain or belt failures... some of the 'minor' issues that effectively write off a car of a certain value/age. Generally speaking ICE cars pre 2008 are getting worthless by the day, primarily because of road tax.
And as for not being able to 'push' EV's.... 100% of the broken down ICE cars arrive to my workshop on the back of a transporter, in 40 odd years I've yet to see a customer push one from where it broke down.
Repairing EV's is a simple case of re educating yourself in the procedures required, nothing more.
I know mechanics who can't or wont fix certain brands of modern cars.
People need to get over this debate about EV's as opposed to anything else. They are simply an alternative. No one is forcing anyone to buy one.
And as for where do you bring them if they break down... I would have thought that was pretty obvious....
Nissan
Renault
Hyundai for example....
I'm fairly certain they have a dealer network.

It will be interesting to see how car manufacturers transition to the EV ecosystem. At present a lot of a cars value to a manufacturer is in the after sales service, and that is a major incentive for individuals to seek to operate brand dealerships.

You might have to see brands move to a direct sales model, with a small number of authorised dealerships, as service will me a much simpler affair.

Another aspect may also be forced obsolescence. You could argue we see it already in that cars start to have high maintenance bills as the miles clock up. The difference with the EV is that the clock can be set to run out, the day it leaves the factory. Cars can be designed with degrading battery chemistry, so that as they age, the less useful they become. This has happened before - the incandescent lightbulb was much longer lived in the early days until the industry decided that 10,000 hours was the reasonable lifespan to design for.

mischascha wrote: »

so we all get that dirty staff from the ground digging like European mole for those swanky EV's owners...:>

As opposed to the petrol and diesel which floats gently to pumps on a breeze of sweetly perfumed air