"Veganism" - Claire Byrne Live (RTE)

actua11 · 28-03-2017 4:32pm #1

I've just caught the veganism segment on the recent episode of Claire Byrne live -linky link - http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/claire-byrne-live-extras-30003215/10705379/

I was wondering if anyone had seen it or had any thoughts on it?

There was a mix of what I'd call polarized opinions from the meat and dairy industries and from those from vegan advocacy groups, and I honestly found both sides arguments a little jarring (Despite my bias to the plant based arguments)

My take from it was the meat farmers argument being that you'd need to eat X amount of truckloads of broccoli to match protein from a sliver of stake, and a chefs argument that it was a mental health issue that not getting endorphines from enjoying eating meat could be linked to poor mental health/depression.

I did find some of the vegan arguments (though I agree with them) to be a little far-fetched in a "Chickens are people too" type of way. I get the point trying to be made, but in a very short "soundbite" type debate I don't think it came across well. Also, in explaining where vegans get their 'rare?' nutrients, it was said that "Actually B12 comes from bacteria, not meat and omegas come from sea vegetation not fish" which again, I understand the point, but it seemed to come across as us plant eaters eat bacteria and sea weed, which doesn't really 'normalise' veganism I feel.

There was a dietitian though who I thought spoke very well, who basically said, veganism can be very healthy, just keep half an eye on your nutrition and it's totally fine, but maybe this got lost among the other opposing arguments?

Either way, it's an interesting watch.

Tar.Aldarion · 29-03-2017 3:22pm

Thanks, I'll have a watch of this later! You're points sound justified, if somebody asks where vegans get something jsut say in products x and y, not get terribly into speicifies the audience won't yet have an interest in.

GoVegan · 30-03-2017 8:47pm

There are many studies proving that a whole-foods plant-based diet (which happens to be vegan) is what humans are supposed to eat. By the way - not all vegan diets are healthy. A diet of Coke and crisps is vegan after all. For example:

Ancestors: This argument that our ancestors ate meat is often used to justify eating it but it was the exception, rather than the rule. Like many herbivores, humans, cows etc, our teeth and jaws move sideways to eat plants. Carnivores like cats, dogs, crocodiles jaws have sharp teeth to tear meat, their jaws move up and down and they have different enzymes for digesting meat properly.

Scientific Studies: The book mentioned in the show by Dr Colin T. Campbell called The China Study outlines very detailed, peer-reviewed research showing that a whole-foods plant-based diet gives optimum health. The study (of 6500 people's diets) proves the link between meat, dairy and eggs as the cause of many diseases in the modern day diet. Well worth a read.

B12. Is a bacteria that mammals can naturally get from water for example. However, tap water is treated with chlorine - which kills bacteria such as Cholera - but also kills the B12. Vegans should take a B12 supplement but that's the only one required if they eat a normal, healthy vegan diet.

Protein. There has never been a documented case of protein deficiency in any medical journal world-wide where a sufficient calories are being consumed from a whole-foods plant-based diet. Not only is it a myth that we need huge amounts of protein from animal foods but it is a cancer promoter according to Dr Campbell's research. Just look at some of the elite athletes who eat plant based e.g. Venus and Serena Williams.

Calcium: There is calcium in milk. However, the milk causes our bodies to be acidic, it then in turn leaches calcium from our bones to balance this thereby depleting calcium - not adding it. If drinking milk is good for our bones, why is there so much osteoporosis in the countries where there is the highest dairy consumption?

Iron: again, plentiful in a whole-foods plant-based diet.

I could go on, but a lot of what we are led to believe is a good, healthy, balanced diet including meat (and chicken, fish etc), eggs and dairy just isn't true. There certainly is an ethical issue when it comes to farming meat, dairy, eggs etc but we are conditioned not to think about what happens to them. I wouldn't try to convert someone to veganism by pointing out the obvious and making them feel guilty about their food choices. Moving to a vegan diet has so many health benefits, the animals benefit in the end too! Check out "Food Choices" on Netflix.

henryporter · 31-03-2017 4:12pm

Just watched this now. Very interesting and a welcome contribution to the debate which is clearly rattling the meat and dairy industries as people convert for whatever reasons they may have.

Just some random thoughts on the program:

It's very apparent that both the EU and individual governments have a protectionist attitude towards the animal industries, producing reports and regulations that are all diversionary, as their fundamental purpose is to ensure employment and trade in these areas. They have also sought to seriously underplay recent links between meat based diets and cancers (not to mention all the other modern illnesses attributable to poor diets)

It's also very apparent that vegans per se can be described as people who have become food aware, and that non-vegans are very ignorant of how their food is produced.

I accept the point that some vegans may not have a great diet, so there is a need for better education.

The claims by the not very bashful lady who was so amazed at her culinary skills having the power to convert vegans to the path of righteousness was simply laughable.

Funnily enough the vegans on the show looked the most healthy

Thanks again OP for drawing attention to the program

zoobizoo · 04-04-2017 12:05pm

I think that these tv debates do a disservice to moderate meat eaters, vegans and vegetarians.

They polarise people at the start and leave very little room for moderate views.

It would be nice to hear from those people who say "I don't eat much meat but sometimes I do either because someone has cooked a dinner with meat and I know it's not going to kill me or because I just wanted to" or to hear from a farmer saying "I have a vegetarian breakfast of porridge and toast every morning and that is great. My diet is 80& vegetarian"

Pitting dependent farmers (with generations of farming in their families) against committed vegans stifles the debate and turns people off.

If you had two moderate people having a chat then the debate opens up:
"I gave up most dairy"
"why did you do that?"
"Because I didn't like the way the cows were forced to give birth (etc etc )"
"Oh, I didn't know that's what happened. Do you not miss it in your tea?"
"I do. Actually, I have given it up apart from my tea in the morning"

I think were vegans turns people off (in arguments) is when they start as another poster says, talking about chickens as people (extreme example) instead of focusing on health / environmental benefits. Because they are preaching to a lot of people who will never give up meat.

Not only that, they're preaching to people the majority of whom do not think much about what they eat.

"Veganism" - Claire Byrne Live (RTE)

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