Mens Rights Thread

22-10-2020 10:41am

Sn@kebite wrote: »

Middle-class , white women's opinions that is. It's true and I've noticed it over last 15 years moreso.

I haven't. TBH I've seen this claim repeated many times, but never seen any evidence to support it. The vast majority of support for feminism, and women's issues, comes over social media, which isn't restricted by income or class.

Also the distinction between working class and middle class has blurred considerably over the last three decades, due to the benefits available to everyone. I find that many people who call themselves working class, would be considered middle class due to traditional measures such as education or income, but people hold to the working class category as if it makes them better, more honest, somehow. And vice versa. I'm middle class, but in terms of income, I'd be consider working class now...

IMHO I don't think this is really about middle class women anymore. But just women in general who have an interest in such things.

The push to "give" women voices has been ongoing for well over a decade now. It's not anything new, and as with most feminist movements, it's been gaining momentum, expanding to other 'concerns' over time. And it'll continue until it's stopped... which I don't see happening any time soon.

It's clearly not about being equal, never has been. Similar to how privileged feminists don't want women at the bottom to be equal with them, as we see over and over in feminism.

All women have privilege due to their gender in a western nation. It's variable depending on the nation, but it's there anyway. Again, I'm not sure about this 'privileged' feminists not wanting those below them from being equal. The only example of this I've seen is feminists who criticise those who want a more traditional lifestyle of being a stay-at-home wife, or be supported by a man. Possibly the other example would be the difference in expectations of equality between white feminists in the US and that of AA feminists.

All the same, could you show me where you're getting this impression from? I do stay relatively informed on what feminists are pushing and haven't seen this classism within them.

py2006 · 22-10-2020 11:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

All the same, could you show me where you're getting this impression from? I do stay relatively informed on what feminists are pushing and haven't seen this classism within them.

Not sure if its related to what you are talking about but a lot of feminists, particularly western ones, have gone from seeking the female vote to coining terms like manspreading, mansplaining (which is used to silence men) rather than focusing on the women in less privileged countries who really are oppressed and treated poorly.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 22-10-2020 11:29am

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/should-women-erase-men-from-their-lives-this-writer-thinks-so-1.4387199?mode=amp

iptba · 22-10-2020 1:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All women have privilege due to their gender in a western nation. It's variable depending on the nation, but it's there anyway. Again, I'm not sure about this 'privileged' feminists not wanting those below them from being equal. The only example of this I've seen is feminists who criticise those who want a more traditional lifestyle of being a stay-at-home wife, or be supported by a man. Possibly the other example would be the difference in expectations of equality between white feminists in the US and that of AA feminists. .

AA feminist?

Limpy · 22-10-2020 1:16pm

I want to see women building houses and whistling at me when i walk pass.

iptba · 22-10-2020 1:17pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/should-women-erase-men-from-their-lives-this-writer-thinks-so-1.4387199?mode=amp

First comment:

Nonsense. Women should eliminate men from their lives if they want. It's not like she's talking about getting out a sub machine gun. Reading/watching male media pollutes us with their skanky thinking.
I can say anything I like here because I know no men read your article, since it's obviously about women.
I think this woman is fabulously frank and honest and thought provoking and she has a point.

22-10-2020 1:37pm

py2006 wrote: »

Not sure if its related to what you are talking about but a lot of feminists, particularly western ones, have gone from seeking the female vote to coining terms like manspreading, mansplaining (which is used to silence men) rather than focusing on the women in less privileged countries who really are oppressed and treated poorly.

It's not really related, sorry.

It's more to do with first world problems and the focus of those who live in prosperous societies. They live in mostly equal societies (or have superior rights) so they need to find a reason to stay relevant, and keep their victim status.

As for focusing on women in less developed countries, they're not going to do so, because there's no realistic way for them to affect the situation.

22-10-2020 1:37pm

iptba wrote: »

AA feminist?

African American.

iptba · 22-10-2020 9:56pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/should-women-erase-men-from-their-lives-this-writer-thinks-so-1.4387199?mode=amp

A couple of men who have been influenced by the misandry:

Well i guess when you look at the statistics the biggest threat in the world for womens safety is men. I think the author is being gracious in proffering a differing viewpoint on my species.

When you bore down even further - the biggest threat to men is men... good God. I think we should all avoid men at all cost. On reflection the author above is being TOO gracious. We must protect ourselves.

Alice Coffin is perfectly right to erase men from her person sphere. I too would do the same if I were a woman. It astonishes me that women tolerate arrogant, insensitive, misogynists and vote for them. I am thinking of Johnson and Trump in particular. We need WGTOW to complement MGTOW, then men might begin to realise the hurt they inflict.

Thankfully, there were some other comments for balance:

How is this rhetoric any different from Donald Trump's rubbish? Sowing seeds of division does no good for anyone, why not seek the good in a person and learn to accept the differences that make us all individuals?

She can erase men from her immediate social circle if she wants, but I think she would find it difficult to completely remove the influence of men from her life unless she is willing to forgo cars, roads, broadband, running water, electricity, and all the other basic infrastructure that allows her the time and freedom to sit around considering such nonsense.

The title of the article is:

Should women erase men from their lives? This writer thinks so

iptba · 25-10-2020 9:15pm

What is a Man?
http://empathygap.uk/?p=3117

On International Men’s Day 2019 (19th November), the Oxford IMD Committee hosted an event at Oxford Town Hall. There were four speakers of which I was one. I confess to having been rather upstaged by the other speakers. Given that two of them were Belinda Brown and Darren Deojee you might be unsurprised. However, I think we were all upstaged by Chaka Artwell. All the talks will appear as online videos soon. For now, the text of my talk is below, and you can hear me read it on my YT channel here. (And now also on video).

But let us change the interrogative into an imperative. Let us replace the question “what is a man?” with the command “be a man!”. Now we cannot deny that there is real content to that command, as any man subject to it will know. It is a reminder to a man that he has fallen short of expectations in some way. So, there must be some expectations against which he is being judged.

In contrast, say to a woman “be a woman!” and she is likely to merely look bemused and perhaps to reply, puzzled, “I am a woman”, and wonder what you were getting at. Of course, you never would say “be a woman” because, unlike “be a man”, it conveys nothing. Why is “being a man” dependent upon some performance measures, whereas being a woman is not?

I found this blog post interesting, though a bit depressing as a man.

iptba · 30-10-2020 1:36am

I can’t bring myself to read this at this time but I thought it might be of interest that this is a sponsored piece in the Irish Times, presumably paid for by one or more of the entities mentioned in it:

A Special Report is content that is edited and produced by the Special Reports unit within The Irish Times Content Studio. It is supported by advertisers who may contribute to the report, but who do not have editorial control.

The importance of the gender pay gap Bill
With Bill slow to progress, there are calls for key piece of legislation to be re-prioritised

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/the-importance-of-the-gender-pay-gap-bill-1.4385245

iptba · 30-10-2020 1:40am

iptba wrote: »

I can’t bring myself to read this at this time but I thought it might be of interest that this is a sponsored piece in the Irish Times, presumably paid for by one or more of the entities mentioned in it:

A Special Report is content that is edited and produced by the Special Reports unit within The Irish Times Content Studio. It is supported by advertisers who may contribute to the report, but who do not have editorial control.

The importance of the gender pay gap Bill
With Bill slow to progress, there are calls for key piece of legislation to be re-prioritised

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/the-importance-of-the-gender-pay-gap-bill-1.4385245

Another related sponsored piece:
Hard data critical to achieving equality and diversity goals
Statistics such as headcount and payroll can ascertain significant gender pay gap

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/hard-data-critical-to-achieving-equality-and-diversity-goals-1.4385408

py2006 · 31-10-2020 3:21pm

In the car earlier, I heard an ad on the radio highlighting abuse against men. You could hear the woman shouting and threatening him as he locked the door behind him and gets onto the phone to somebody.

Refreshing to hear men being thought of for once

iptba · 07-11-2020 9:54pm

iptba wrote: »

Another related sponsored piece:
Hard data critical to achieving equality and diversity goals
Statistics such as headcount and payroll can ascertain significant gender pay gap

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/hard-data-critical-to-achieving-equality-and-diversity-goals-1.4385408

An Advertising Feature is created, supplied and paid for by a commercial client and promoted by The Irish Times Content Studio. The Irish Times newsroom or other editorial departments are not involved in the production of advertising features.

Another feminist-type advertorial:

Female role models will help create an open, diverse and inclusive ICT industry
Senior female Huawei executive calls for an “inclusive, diverse and healthy society” in keynote address

https://www.irishtimes.com/advertising-feature/huawei/female-role-models-will-help-create-an-open-diverse-and-inclusive-ict-industry-1.4398792

Sn@kebite · 07-11-2020 10:09pm

py2006 wrote: »

In the car earlier, I heard an ad on the radio highlighting abuse against men. You could hear the woman shouting and threatening him as he locked the door behind him and gets onto the phone to somebody.

Refreshing to hear men being thought of for once

I think male victims are in an unfortunate situation in that they abuse appears to centre around emotional abuse. This is more difficult to prove whilst there is a denial women abuse men/children and the laws tend to focus on more "masculine crimes" as in physical beatings. If you notice when women do get arrested it is almost always very violent behaviour as in she is abusing in a more stereotypical "male way". Laws don't tend to come after the way women abuse so it's a hidden problem.

iptba · 12-11-2020 4:47am

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

Also following clearing out cookies and the like from my desktop, I am no longer automatically shown trending hashtags, but instead a variety of items (I can click on to see trending hashtags, but only do that a few times a day). So I'll probably be highlighting a variety of trending topics and hashtags from now on

#MedBikini

#tampaxad
it was mostly women (83%) who complained to the ASAI

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/roadto2022en/status/1292825773162864641?s=11

Aoibhinn
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesLife/status/1302183662574882821

Twitter trend
How COVID-19 has disproportionately affected women
https://twitter.com/i/events/1306350237351661568

TERFs
JK Rowling

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/intalert/status/1318607915624837121?s=20

TERFs

#JusticeForJohnnyDepp
https://twitter.com/MyGrindelwald/status/1326539145456492549?s=20

Sn@kebite · 17-11-2020 5:52pm

HumbleBundle Fall VR video game bundle supports Movember.

HB is a website that gives away cdkeys for computer games if you donate to its causes. You then download the game and it's locked to your Steam account. Various bundles are tier locked so the more money you donate the higher the unlocked tier of games. This bundle is a Virtual Reality game bundle for Steam gaming client. Note you may need a VR headset to play some games just check the individual game at the steam website

Steampowered.com

This is the first time I've seen HB support a male issue. - it's usually WWF, conservation and the usual woke catalogue of charities (girls who code, RAINN, girls football camps, girl guides, NAACP, LGBT, etc...)

https://www.humblebundle.com/games/fall-vr

iptba · 17-11-2020 8:45pm

This ad came up on my phone. I was curious who it was from, thinking it might be from a women's charity looking for funding.

But no, it is from the European Commission
https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1487&langId=en&utm_source=display&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IE_EU_Pillar_Social_Rights_Display

py2006 · 17-11-2020 9:04pm

In fairness they got the keyword correct for once. 'earn' and not 'paid'.

Sn@kebite · 17-11-2020 9:09pm

iptba wrote: »

This ad came up on my phone. I was curious who it was from, thinking it might be from a women's charity looking for funding.

But no, it is from the European Commission

Well it's still about funding. A lot of otherwise unemployable women have jobs in government positions researching this as a career.

py2006 · 19-11-2020 3:54pm

https://twitter.com/Suffragentleman/status/1329419256044412931?s=20

iptba · 19-11-2020 4:39pm

On International Men's Day, a #WorkEqual event was held and it's currently trending on Twitter
https://twitter.com/MartinaPQuinn/status/1329410512342413313
The WorkEqual campaign is an initiative of the Dress for Success Dublin charity, and is sponsored by Permanent TSB and SOLAS.

Sn@kebite · 20-11-2020 7:19pm

iptba wrote: »

On International Men's Day, a #WorkEqual event was held and it's currently trending on Twitter
https://twitter.com/MartinaPQuinn/status/1329410512342413313
The WorkEqual campaign is an initiative of the Dress for Success Dublin charity, and is sponsored by Permanent TSB and SOLAS.

That's to do with middle-class feminists and wanting men to do more care work so (privileged) women are less impacted in the corporate world. That's not to analyses problems men face. You won't see them concerned about parental alienation for instance.

iptba · 20-11-2020 7:53pm

Sn@kebite wrote: »

That's to do with middle-class feminists and wanting men to do more care work so (privileged) women are less impacted in the corporate world. That's not to analyses problems men face. You won't see them concerned about parental alienation for instance.

Yes indeed. In case it wasn’t clear, I was querying how appropriate it was for International Men’s Day and highlighting one of the slides showing how the focus of that speaker was on helping women.

The Dress for Success charity is about helping women.

iptba · 24-11-2020 3:26pm

(Not important at all)
This showed up on my twitter feed, as it was liked by 2 women I follow (who both have PhDs, no less) and is popular with 28,000 likes in 2 days:
https://twitter.com/littlelilkat/status/1330580122802540544?s=20
It hardly proves much though one has to wonder whether some people read into it that the difference between the genders isn't that big with regard to sports or at least some sports.

Pawwed Rig · 24-11-2020 3:32pm

iptba wrote: »

It hardly proves much though one has to wonder whether some people read into it that the difference between the genders isn't that big with regard to sports or at least some sports.

I doubt it is true either. Who actually talks like that?

H3llR4iser · 24-11-2020 7:45pm

Nobody with an ounce of brain will seriously think that at an amateur level sports, a skilled/trained woman can't beat a less skilled/trained guy.

There was a girl in my gym who could basically lift as heavy as me - and I probably weigh twice what she does. She was simply training much, much more than I do. Afterall, she was doing bodybuilding competitions, while I was just trying not to be (too much of) a fatarse.

An amateur league women's football team will crush your "mates from work + Jim's friend in goal" team all the time. Back when I was in school, whenever we did the PE "tests" (basically, run 5-6 laps around the school building and have the time recorded), there was one girl who would routinely lap all the guys except for the 2/3 "sporty lads" in the class, for she had been training as a ballerina since age 5 or so.

That Twitter post is basically the sum of the completely idiotic attitudes going around these days, where every fcucking thing has to be divisive, problematic and generate debate. What she wrote is basically a big cocktail of cockyness and baiting someone into replying, so other people can start some good old man bashing and speaking about "men tears", "insecurity" and sh1t like that.

Relax lady. You won your tournament. Means you were a better tennis player than all the others, nothing more, nothing less. Enjoy it.

iptba · 24-11-2020 8:11pm

Back in the 1980s, I think, I remember hearing some feminists say that the reason the fastest women weren't able to run as fast as the fastest man was down to socialisation. Hearing such comments made me sceptical of their thought patterns and I started to wonder what other dubious things might be claimed and sometimes go unchallenged.

iptba · 25-11-2020 7:13pm

The researchers found that one in five women have been raped – defined as vaginal, anal or oral penetration – in their lifetime, compared with one in 10 men.

The prevalence of sexual violence varied “significantly” between men and women, the report states, with 49 per cent of women and 19 per cent of men reported being sexually assaulted or harassed.

Both sets of figures are sad.

---

Dr Frédérique Vallières, director of the Trinity Centre for Global Health at Trinity College Dublin and study co-lead, said sexual violence is a “gendered issue”.

“It is women who bear the brunt of sexual violence in society. It’s the United Nations International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women and it is women who mostly experience this.”

The figures suggest that it is not as gendered as some people might think: a significant percentage of men have experienced it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/almost-15-of-irish-adults-have-been-raped-study-finds-1.4418390

Samsonsmasher · 25-11-2020 7:18pm

iptba wrote: »

Back in the 1980s, I think, I remember hearing some feminists say that the reason the fastest women weren't able to run as fast as the fastest man was down to socialisation. Hearing such comments made me sceptical of their thought patterns and I started to wonder what other dubious things might be claimed and sometimes go unchallenged.

The only barriers to women anywhere in Western countries now is their own career choices - generally women tend to steer clear of STEM fields and women dislike jobs that require danger filth and heavy physical labour.

25-11-2020 7:35pm

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The only barriers to women anywhere in Western countries now is their own career choices - generally women tend to steer clear of STEM fields and women dislike jobs that require danger filth and heavy physical labour.

Yes, and no. There are still some industries with some resistance to female hires, due to a traditional mindset or some other nonsense, however, they're few and far between.. and to be fair, there are plenty of industries which have the same barriers for men being hired, due to ingrained biases.

The problem with equality is that it's a bit like the war on Terror.. who exactly do you fight, since it's an idea that you're really seeking to combat, and yet, ideas tend to continue floating around for generations even after leaving mainstream society.

In terms of women being hired, they actually have a greater opportunity than men in most roles, due to the fear/intimidation associated with refusing women, and the need to show how "diverse" a company is expected to be... although, thankfully, that's starting to simmer down, since it's impossible not to recognise the presence of women in virtually every industry.

H3llR4iser · 26-11-2020 2:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, and no. There are still some industries with some resistance to female hires, due to a traditional mindset or some other nonsense, however, they're few and far between.. and to be fair, there are plenty of industries which have the same barriers for men being hired, due to ingrained biases.

True, yet ironically the whole discussion hardly ever touches these very specific fields. The young girl who WANTS to be a mechanic and faces real discrimination doesn't count at all in the discussion, while the one who DOESN'T want to be a software engineer is the one to be helped "overcome" a "discrimination" that isn't there in the first place. Reminds me of the story at the origin of the "spam" concept. Would be funny if it wasn't completely idiotic.

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with equality is that it's a bit like the war on Terror.. who exactly do you fight, since it's an idea that you're really seeking to combat, and yet, ideas tend to continue floating around for generations even after leaving mainstream society.

In terms of women being hired, they actually have a greater opportunity than men in most roles, due to the fear/intimidation associated with refusing women, and the need to show how "diverse" a company is expected to be... although, thankfully, that's starting to simmer down, since it's impossible not to recognise the presence of women in virtually every industry.

I would further extend the comparison to the fact that often the concept of "war on terror" ends up creating its own enemies to fight and justify its own existence - the exact same is happening with "equality", especially when it comes to career path choices.

Even more similarities - sometimes, your actions of the past come back to "create" an issue in the future; STEM fields, especially computer science, had plenty of women training for and working in them up until the 1980s. They actually outnumbered men.

Then the interest fell away...and THAT is what needs to be understood. The excuse "oh it's a male dominated environment" isn't valid today and it was even more ridiculous back then, as it just wasn't even factually true.

I have a suspicion that a cultural shift was involved, the one that saw mainstream media start basically depicting people working with computers with the stereotype of the "charmless, hopeless nerd". Just a suspicion.

26-11-2020 3:09pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

True, yet ironically the whole discussion hardly ever touches these very specific fields. The young girl who WANTS to be a mechanic and faces real discrimination doesn't count at all in the discussion, while the one who DOESN'T want to be a software engineer is the one to be helped "overcome" a "discrimination" that isn't there in the first place. Reminds me of the story at the origin of the "spam" concept. Would be funny if it wasn't completely idiotic.

Ahh well, that's because modern feminism is about social reconstruction. It's like how two decades ago, women who had chosen to be primary mothers and housewives, were criticised for that choice, and almost threatened by many feminists as traitors to their gender. When feminists talk about society and social constructs, they're engaging in the creation of many constructs of their own, and making sure that other women (not the feminists themselves) have to live by these new structures.

If anything I suspect that modern feminism has removed more freedom for women, than provided it, due to the whole victim mentality that's been pushed at them from every angle.

I would further extend the comparison to the fact that often the concept of "war on terror" ends up creating its own enemies to fight and justify its own existence - the exact same is happening with "equality", especially when it comes to career path choices.

Ahh feminism needs an eternal enemy, hence the patriarchy, and by extension, men in general.. A vague formless group who act against the interests of women... and who can never fully be defeated, and so, the continued existence for feminist rhetoric is always needed.

Even more similarities - sometimes, your actions of the past come back to "create" an issue in the future; STEM fields, especially computer science, had plenty of women training for and working in them up until the 1980s. They actually outnumbered men.

Then the interest fell away...and THAT is what needs to be understood. The excuse "oh it's a male dominated environment" isn't valid today and it was even more ridiculous back then, as it just wasn't even factually true.

I have a suspicion that a cultural shift was involved, the one that saw mainstream media start basically depicting people working with computers with the stereotype of the "charmless, hopeless nerd". Just a suspicion.

With programming, it was the problem with deadlines, and overtime being required. In any case, you see this across all industries, where women have "broken" into the male bastion of employment, that they're unhappy with the work culture involved, because it doesn't provide them with what they want... or is simply too hard/competitive/stressful, etc. Which is why the environment is unhealthy (toxic) and needs to be changed, irrespective of the real demands of market driven forces which determine the needs for such labor.. but men can continue to work this way, but women can have something different, because that really shouts equality.

iptba · 28-11-2020 3:44am

8 Reasons Why Fathers Matter
by Clayton Craddock • November 23, 2020 • 0 Comments

http://claytoncraddock.com/8-reasons-why-fathers-matter-2/

28-11-2020 1:11pm

iptba wrote: »

http://claytoncraddock.com/8-reasons-why-fathers-matter-2/

I would not be the 'gentle' man I am today without my father. I mean that. I grew up bitter about my place in society, due to all manner of reasons, but at every stage, my father was there as an example to aspire to. Being gentle without being weak. Being non-combative without being a coward. Being understanding without being condescending. My mother is great, but we're too alike, and so, we tend to butt heads all the time.

My father remains my hero. We didn't play sports together or have any of the movie like bonding experiences, but he remains the best example of what a man is... and, as with most things related to modern feminism, they won't like the world they get, if they're successful in demonizing fathers.

Because I can quite honestly say, that without the example of my father, I would have turned into a much nastier kind of man, with little respect for women, because, honestly.. few women have encouraged me to respect them based on their behavior. It's been my father to show me, by example and by leading the way, on how, not to be bitter, violent, etc (oh, there's a lot of personal development there from me, but... I cannot overestimate the positive influence of my father).

Fathers are necessary for the growth of young boys/men. Hell, it's necessary for middle aged guys too. Sure, there are bad fathers.. but even then, nothing is ever perfect for everyone.

28-11-2020 6:52pm

Daniel Dubois wrote: »

There's a certain kind of woman that gets very bitter on threads like these, they usually resort to personal insults and rather than engage in constructive debate and discussion.

This type of woman was likely treated badly by men in the past, perhaps treated like a cumbucket and discarded like trash. Awful to be treated like that of course. But this type of woman never processed that emotional trauma, it sits in them like poison and infects them on a daily basis, and it results in them being abusive towards other people, especially men, as they generalise that all men are the problem. It's quite unfortunate.

Nah. Sorry, but no... I've learned not to jump to conclusions when it comes to both, people online, and offline. Sure, we've heard tales/stories of women with plenty of bad experiences, but judging on my own experience in meeting women, they're a minority... until you reach America.

The women who complain online, are the same as the guys who complain online. They get a kick out of it. I know... I've been there myself. You pick an area, become something of an expert on it, and you get a rush from tearing down others, because it's fun... and depending on the topic, it can have the added benefit of being virtuous too.

Sure, some people are acting out due to some traumatic experience from their past... but TBH most women I know with such experiences, are actually lovely people, and typically, don't act out either publicly or online. I think we really need to take a step away from this push to make online expression into the center of human behavior, because it's not.

28-11-2020 7:18pm

Ahh. My bad. (just noticed the deleted post) Sorry mods. Don't feed the...

99nsr125 · 28-11-2020 9:05pm

Acquafrio wrote: »

Marriage and aspects of religion were invented as a means of reconciling women's true sexual nature with a settled society in towns and villages.

The truth is only a small minority of men are sexy to women, so in order to motivate the majority of men to contrubute to this new settled civilisation they needed a reward to do so. Without sex for a majority of men, they would simply not comply with such a social order. So there needed to be a way to reconcile this problem. And so marriage was invented and the threat of hell for infidelity and sex outside marriage.

So what happened essentially is a situation was engineered such that most men were in relationships with women who weren't even attracted to them. Also what these social engineers didn't realise was that it doesn't matter what rules you put in place, once women are ovulating and there is an opportunity for sex with one of the few sexy men then all bets are off. It doesn't matter what rules and punishment there is.

In some societies they even resorted to stoning women for adultery to minimise the chance they would cheat on their husband with one of the sexy men. They banned alcohol as that makes womem care even less about the rules and punishment and they even covered up women's attractive features to keep the sexy men away.

Ask yourself why in any large group of friends there are usually one or two lads who regularly have casual sex where the rest might get lucky on the rare occasion.

Genetic testing tells us that only a minority of men throughout the ages have passed on their DNA to the next generation.

Marriage is about property rights and the passage of wealth

You don't need marriage to love or stay together forever

Marriage does not change peoples nature, an estimated 1 in 4 children are passed off as the husbands.

Marriage gives the woman access to wealth she hasn't earned and she gets to cheat and pass off the offspring as the husbands.

28-11-2020 9:37pm

99nsr125 wrote: »

Marriage is about property rights and the passage of wealth

For you. For me, marriage is about a commitment, and a strong gesture towards staying together. Now.. I'm in no hurry to get married, and I'll be careful about it.. but it's still something I might consider for the future.

You don't need marriage to love or stay together forever

Some don't... but most people actually do. The numbers of successful relationships staying together long term is still relatively small, considering it's only a short period of time, that marriage has become undesirable (again, for some). I know people who have said in group conversations, that it was the act and status of marriage that kept them together, when the friendship, trust, whatever, didn't mean much at the time of the disagreement(s).

Marriage does not change peoples nature, an estimated 1 in 4 children are passed off as the husbands.

A persons nature is individualistic, and the 1 in 4 is based off America, which is a country of extremes. Many women never cheat, nor seek to trick guys. Don't judge the world based off American society.

Marriage gives the woman access to wealth she hasn't earned and she gets to cheat and pass off the offspring as the husbands.

Except that women have been in the workplace for decades now, and the focus of wealth has shifted significantly, often with the woman earning more than the man. I understand what you're talking about, but again, you're focusing too much on US society. If you look at European rates of marriage/divorce, marriage (and those who stay married) far outweigh that of divorce, and the numbers of men paying for children not their own in Europe is supposedly quite low (I haven't seen many articles of European men being hit by this). Although child support is an issue throughout Europe..

The real problem is the lack of focus on gender equality, and that's a failing by the successive waves of males/females who accepted this state in the law and society.

99nsr125 · 29-11-2020 2:28am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For you. For me, marriage is about a commitment, and a strong gesture towards staying together. Now.. I'm in no hurry to get married, and I'll be careful about it.. but it's still something I might consider for the future.

No for everybody as a default, being married gives you legal entitlement via terms written in law like a contract to the wealth of your partner, even when you don't get it, it's because a pre nuptial contract has been drawn up to specifically protect the wealth from the other.

So have the ceremony but don't sign the paper but nobody does that . . . .

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some don't... but most people actually do. The numbers of successful relationships staying together long term is still relatively small, considering it's only a short period of time, that marriage has become undesirable (again, for some). I know people who have said in group conversations, that it was the act and status of marriage that kept them together, when the friendship, trust, whatever, didn't mean much at the time of the disagreement(s).

Ya know like a contract not a commitment

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A persons nature is individualistic, and the 1 in 4 is based off America, which is a country of extremes. Many women never cheat, nor seek to trick guys. Don't judge the world based off American society.

I was referencing a UK study which had found 1 in 4 children in a marriage were not the offspring of the husband yet were passed off as such

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that women have been in the workplace for decades now, and the focus of wealth has shifted significantly, often with the woman earning more than the man. I understand what you're talking about, but again, you're focusing too much on US society. If you look at European rates of marriage/divorce, marriage (and those who stay married) far outweigh that of divorce, and the numbers of men paying for children not their own in Europe is supposedly quite low (I haven't seen many articles of European men being hit by this). Although child support is an issue throughout Europe..

The real problem is the lack of focus on gender equality, and that's a failing by the successive waves of males/females who accepted this state in the law and society.

Yet we still work harder, longer in more dangerous occupations, not paid but earning more it is a significant distinction.

It's not about equity, it may have been once but it's not any more, a meritocracy would benefit everyone even if it meant 100% female roles or 100% male roles.

But it's not a meritocracy they want, a minority driven agenda wants to plunder and pass it off as equity the problem with this as history has shown us is that those societies that were plundered are decimated and it causes *all* to suffer

iptba · 01-12-2020 7:38pm

Special Report: ‘Need to change mindset’ as nearly 50% of dads don’t take parental leave

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40090217.html
I haven't read this all but it contains some male bashing:

Children's Minister Roderic O'Gorman said it was disappointing to see that paid benefits are not being taken up.

"I think we have more to do to change that mindset about the division of responsibility when it comes to caring for children.

"There's a societal element to all of this as well and that deeper question of who cares for children, and an approach that all of us and particularly men need to take, that we have an absolute responsibility in terms of caring for children. It has to be understood that it is a shared responsibility of parents," he said.

It's not like these men are going on holidays during the time; it presumably means they are working. With the mother out of work, the finances of the family might be precarious.

iptba · 02-12-2020 5:05pm

This is a popular post on Twitter with over 13,000 likes that turned up in my feed
https://twitter.com/autienelle/status/1333752670759292929?s=20
https://twitter.com/autienelle/status/1333752671711334407?s=20
https://twitter.com/autienelle/status/1333752672747401216?s=20
https://twitter.com/autienelle/status/1333752674018275328?s=20

It is a pity if diagnoses are more likely to be missed in one gender.

But regard to the sexism claim, which presumably means sexism against females in this context, another way of looking at it is that a greater range of female activities are acceptable and seen as normal while people are quicker to label males/male behaviour as abnormal. Most of the time, most people would probably prefer to be seen as normal rather than abnormal or odd or weird or whatever.

iptba · 02-12-2020 6:43pm

Letter to the Editor: Innocent men were the victims in school leggings saga

WED, 02 DEC, 2020 - 10:44

If your correspondent, Joyce Fegan, is to be believed ‘Leggings saga — let’s stop blaming young people’ (Irish Examiner, November 28) the recent controversy in the Presentation College Carlow is yet another tale of female victimhood at the hands of the “liberal” media’s arch villain — the dreaded “man in authority”. I disagree with this interpretation of events.

At this stage it is clear nothing inappropriate or ambiguous was stated by staff to the girls of the school. However, on the basis of unsubstantiated rumours a story was propagated by some mainstream and social media outlets.

The story (which became worldwide news) suggested male teachers allowed themselves to be sexually distracted by female children in the school. It resulted in journalists, politicians, and ordinary people taking to the airwaves and social media.

Accusations were directed at the minority of men working in the school. It is impossible to overstate the awfulness of such a lie or the potentially life destroying effects it could have on innocent men.

In an effort to explain what truly happened the school’s principal, Ray Murray, spoke to the nation on the radio on Wednesday morning.

He clearly stated what was said to the girls of the school and why only girls were spoken to. There is no evidence to suggest he was lying or that the message was in any way ambiguous.

Yet Joyce Fegan seems unsatisfied with Mr Murray’s calm and reasoned response. She speaks disparagingly of his “15 minutes of fame” — as if he were an attention-seeker rather than an innocent man seeking to defend his staff against horrible accusations. She wonders (for no obvious reason) if it was “a case of messy messaging”.

In fact, she seems determined to do anything other than consider the possibility that Mr Murray handled the situation as best he could.

I accept that it is difficult to be completely balanced when discussing controversial issues upon which one has strong views.

However, to interpret an incident involving such terrible lies and accusations against innocent men as a tale of female victimhood suggests a view of the issue which is extremely imbalanced. Perhaps Ms Fegan would attempt a fairer and more balanced approach if she decides to write about this disturbing story again.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/yourview/arid-40129748.html

iptba · 02-12-2020 7:38pm

An Post narrows Gender Pay Gap to 1.41% in 2020
1 December 2020

Action Plan reduces Gap to 1.41% and improves Gender Balance
Gender action plan has seen emergence of new talent and specific expertise

https://www.anpost.com/Media-Centre/News/An-Post-narrows-Gender-Pay-Gap-to-1-41-in-2020

We will probably see a lot of companies making similar statements. A smaller pay gap doesn't necessarily mean less gender discrimination; in fact, it could mean more gender discrimination (against men).

iptba · 02-12-2020 7:58pm

Men wrongly perceive gender bias in Civil Service promotion – ESRI
Research examines flexible working, promotions and training in Civil Service

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/men-wrongly-perceive-gender-bias-in-civil-service-promotion-esri-1.4424784

We rarely hear bodies make such statements about women's perceptions, i.e. "women wrongly perceive gender bias ..."

On training and promotions, the report also detected a gender bias with women less likely to have participated in training compared with their male counterparts.

I imagine this probably wasn't down to discrimination, but more women not taking the initiative.

Although both sexes felt equally encouraged to apply for positions, women were significantly less likely to have applied for a promotion in the two years prior to the survey.

the_pen_turner · 02-12-2020 8:53pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/men-wrongly-perceive-gender-bias-in-civil-service-promotion-esri-1.4424784

We rarely hear bodies make such statements about women's perceptions, i.e. "women wrongly perceive gender bias ..."

I imagine this probably wasn't down to discrimination, but more women not taking the initiative.

a lot of women are happy with the basic low level jobs and dont want the stress and hassel of moving up the ladder. training is part of that .

02-12-2020 11:30pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

a lot of women are happy with the basic low level jobs and dont want the stress and hassel of moving up the ladder. training is part of that .

Yes, but how can women not want the extra working hours (official and unofficial), the added stress, the extra responsibilities, etc all for marginally greater salaries, that increases their tax presence? There must be discrimination, bias or whatever, involved if women aren't signing up.. irrespective of the benefits of not doing so.

A lot of women understand that they can work the lower end jobs, be on flexible hours, or spend half their time at home and the remainder at work... all the while getting supports from the government for doing so. Isn't it grand for some?

Kylta · 04-12-2020 11:52pm

I don't know if I should post this here, but I wrote this back in 2002. At the time I was in the family court but coming up to my case. Men weren't really getting a fair shake and it had me worried. Has it turned out the case ended up being more favorable to my children and me.

Twisted Tears

Children's the victim's
Of a mother's hate
More twisted tears
A father's fate
A mother's neglect
Causes relentless pain
More twisted tears
For financial gain

Another day
A mother lies
More twisted tears
A father cries
Crisis councillor
At children's cost
More twisted tears
A father's loss

Court looms
A father's plight
More twisted tears
A custody fight
Night and day
When nobody cares
More twisted tears
A father's despair

Access denied
Justice has lied
More twisted tears
A father died
Children the victim's
Of a mother's hate
More twisted tears
Sealed a father's fate

Sorry if its posted in the wrong thread,

LLewellen Farquarson · 05-12-2020 12:37am

Kylta wrote: »

Sorry if its posted in the wrong thread,

For me personally , I don't think there is a wrong thread for that.
Thanks for sharing it.

iptba · 05-12-2020 1:54am

Kylta wrote: »

I don't know if I should post this here, but I wrote this back in 2002. At the time I was in the family court but coming up to my case. Men weren't really getting a fair shake and it had me worried. Has it turned out the case ended up being more favorable to my children and me.

Twisted Tears

Children's the victim's
Of a mother's hate
More twisted tears
A father's fate
A mother's neglect
Causes relentless pain
More twisted tears
For financial gain

Another day
A mother lies
More twisted tears
A father cries
Crisis councillor
At children's cost
More twisted tears
A father's loss

Court looms
A father's plight
More twisted tears
A custody fight
Night and day
When nobody cares
More twisted tears
A father's despair

Access denied
Justice has lied
More twisted tears
A father died
Children the victim's
Of a mother's hate
More twisted tears
Sealed a father's fate

Sorry if its posted in the wrong thread,

Seems like it fits fine though a specific thread on fathers’ rights might be good and attract more posts on the topic than this general one has done.

Sorry to hear of the difficult times you went through.