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Extension & Renovation - Architect & Costing

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  • 18-02-2021 10:16am
    #1
    narodvale
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭


    A quite broad post. Any and all feedback, or insight would be greatly appreciated for a naive person who’s just bought their first home.

    House was built in 1964
    BER Rating is E
    Approx 130sqm
    90ft rear garden

    Would like to do the following:

    > Bring the home up to modern standards , insulation, rewiring and new glazing
    > Modest rear single storey renovation that avoids the need for planning (under 40sqm)
    > basic garage conversion approx 2.8m x 5.3m (Architect has advised this won’t fall under planning required)
    > Attic conversion with en-suite. No requirement for this to be deemed habitable, or a very high end finish, but a good finish

    If anyone has thoughts or perspectives on any of the below it would be great

    > Architect has quoted fees in the region of 20k, is this reasonable for a project of this size that likely won’t need planning?
    > Any idea of approximate rewiring costs for a house of 130-160sqm? Is this usually calculated by sqm?
    > Insulation options or approx costs

    We have a budget of approximately €250k with 10% contingency. Some architects we’ve spoken to have said we’ll likely be able to get everything done done for this budget. Another architect said this is half what we’d need.....Having not built before, it’s very hard for us to gauge if we are way off where we need to be. I had budgeted about €2.5k per sqm for the new extension.

    The house cost €630k so we are reluctant to put too much more than the budget above, as we will never get close to that back out should we decide to move again.

    I realise this is a long, and slightly rambler, post. I’ve just found people on Boards to be very generous with their time, experience, and opinions. With that in mind I’d love to hear from people


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    #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    We have a budget of approximately €250k with 10% contingency. Some architects we’ve spoken to have said we’ll likely be able to get everything done done for this budget. Another architect said this is half what we’d need.....

    I think your budget is tight enough for what you want to do, but I don't think you need to double your budget.

    When you appoint an architect, always a good idea to have a budget costing prepared by a QS, based on the initial design, to make sure you are on the right track.
    narodvale wrote: »
    > Modest rear single storey renovation that avoids the need for planning (under 40sqm)
    > basic garage conversion approx 2.8m x 5.3m (Architect has advised this won’t fall under planning required)

    Be careful of both those, as the area of converted garage should be deducetd from the 40 m.sq. If garage conversion is approx. 14.5 m.sq., that would leave approx. 25.5 m.sq. for extension without the requirement to obtain planning permission (assuming the house was not extended previously).


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    #3
    narodvale
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭narodvale


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    I think your budget is tight enough for what you want to do, but I don't think you need to double your budget.

    When you appoint an architect, always a good idea to have a budget costing prepared by a QS, based on the initial design, to make sure you are on the right track.



    Be careful of both those, as the area of converted garage should be deducetd from the 40 m.sq. If garage conversion is approx. 14.5 m.sq., that would leave approx. 25.5 m.sq. for extension without the requirement to obtain planning permission (assuming the house was not extended previously).

    Great advice, thanks for that.

    The garage is part of the original structure of the house and built under bedrooms on the second floor. All architects I’ve spoken to have advised we likely won’t need planning permission as a result, but will certainly get that confirmed.


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    #4
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    Great advice, thanks for that.

    The garage is part of the original structure of the house and built under bedrooms on the second floor. All architects I’ve spoken to have advised we likely won’t need planning permission as a result, but will certainly get that confirmed.

    You don't need planning permission necessarily to convert the garage but the area of same is deductible from the 40 m.sq. total exemption area.


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    #5
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    The house cost €630k....

    An interesting rule of thumb I have sometimes told clients is to budget 50% the purchase price when buying an older house to fully upgrade/refurbish and alter/extend (within reason). It has proved pretty accurate!


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    narodvale wrote: »
    Great advice, thanks for that.

    The garage is part of the original structure of the house and built under bedrooms on the second floor. All architects I’ve spoken to have advised we likely won’t need planning permission as a result, but will certainly get that confirmed.

    Your garage is 2.8x5.3 = 14.8 Sq. M.
    So your rear extension can only be max 25 Sq. m.


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    #7
    narodvale
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭narodvale


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Your garage is 2.8x5.3 = 14.8 Sq. M.
    So your rear extension can only be max 25 Sq. m.

    Apologies I was in accurate above when I referred to the need for planning permission.

    As the garage is not attached to the rear, or the side of the property, it is part of the primary structure, we have been advised it will not have an impact on the 40sqm development that does not require planning.

    Again this is just the advice I’ve been given by a number of architects, I appreciate it may not be accurate


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    #8
    narodvale
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭narodvale


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    An interesting rule of thumb I have sometimes told clients is to budget 50% the purchase price when buying an older house to fully upgrade/refurbish and alter/extend (within reason). It has proved pretty accurate!

    I’d never heard that rule of thumb.

    Really appreciate the insight? Worrying though it is in relation to our budget


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    #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    narodvale wrote: »
    Apologies I was in accurate above when I referred to the need for planning permission.

    As the garage is not attached to the rear, or the side of the property, it is part of the primary structure, we have been advised it will not have an impact on the 40sqm development that does not require planning.

    Again this is just the advice I’ve been given by a number of architects, I appreciate it may not be accurate

    If its not attached to the side or rear, how is it part of the primary structure?


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    #10
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    I’d never heard that rule of thumb.

    Really appreciate the insight? Worrying though it is in relation to our budget

    You are not too far off with a budget of E250K + 10%. You just need to be careful what you do and don't go mad. Thus the suggestion for a QS, at design stage, to keep you on track.


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    #11
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    As the garage is not attached to the rear, or the side of the property, it is part of the primary structure, we have been advised it will not have an impact on the 40sqm development that does not require planning.

    A garage is a garage whether it be to the side of the house or within the house as you describe. Once converted, the house is extended (into the Garage).


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    #12
    narodvale
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭narodvale


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    A garage is a garage whether it be to the side of the house or within the house as you describe. Once converted, the house is extended (into the Garage).

    How strange that for some reason they think this wouldn’t impact the 40sqm planning exemption. Is there any situation where converting a garage wouldn’t impact this?

    As I said I’m not an expert at all so will have to trust your experience, as I have no idea here


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    #13
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    narodvale wrote: »
    Is there any situation where converting a garage wouldn’t impact this?

    Not in my opinion.

    Building an extension and converting an existing garage are in the same class of exemption. Class 1. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2 So you cannot exceed 40 m.sq. for either/both without applying for planning permission.

    Just to say that there is no big deal applying for planning permission.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just out the other end of a similar job (1971 house - extension, gut and renovation) and spent 191k. I am assuming you are in Dublin (I'm not), and costs (materials and labour) have gone up since our job was priced.

    My first bit of advice is to get a QS and that will give you a much better indication of what you will be able to do as costs are not an architect's area of expertise. The QS certainly put manners on us. Decide on your budget and stick to it rigidly, and also have a contingency (you have) for unexpected things which will arise.

    Think carefully about heating system - unless you are going to get to A2 and are going airtight, be careful of A2W as I'm hearing stories of people who put it into renovations and are now getting very high bills. Seems to work best on new builds, but your engineer should be able to advise on that.

    20k sounds a lot for architect's fees given it appears to be a modest extension and garage conversion, and the rest is simply a renovation job.

    I got my engineer to do the plans and project manage the whole thing which worked very well for us. I had an architect friend go through the plans and he tweaked some elements for me.

    With landscaping and things like kitchen and sanitary ware on top of the build cost, the 50 per cent of house purchase costs rule of thumb was pretty accurate for us.

    Best of luck.


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