Child abuse?

Xcellor · 10-09-2019 1:52pm #1

Apparently a lot of women in Ireland continue to smoke and drink during pregnancy.

If we legislate that abortion isn't allowed after a certain point (without medical reasons) then why is it not against the law to smoke/drink also. It seems a bit inconsistent. Surely the right to life should be the right to be born without medical complications?

WB Yokes · 10-09-2019 1:53pm

Sure its only a foetus at that stage. The mother comes first. Her body her choice.

Deebles McBeebles · 10-09-2019 1:54pm

Back to the biscuits for me.

gibgodsman · 10-09-2019 1:55pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Apparently a lot of women in Ireland continue to smoke and drink during pregnancy.

If we legislate that abortion isn't allowed after a certain point (without medical reasons) then why is it not against the law to smoke/drink also. It seems a bit inconsistent. Surely the right to life should be the right to be born without medical complications?

Easy answer, because its impossible to regulate or legislate for, a couple could smoke and drink and have absolutely no issues with their new born baby. Another couple could have genetic issues they did not know about, not smoke or drink, take all the right vitamins and do everything they are supposed to and the new born baby is born with medical complications, what legislation could possibly work here?

gifted · 10-09-2019 1:55pm

Paddy Jackson and now this???....

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 10-09-2019 1:55pm

Little tyke is probably loving those Marlboro lights. Get him started early and he can quit before thirty.

10-09-2019 1:57pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Apparently a lot of women in Ireland continue to smoke and drink during pregnancy.

If we legislate that abortion isn't allowed after a certain point (without medical reasons) then why is it not against the law to smoke/drink also. It seems a bit inconsistent. Surely the right to life should be the right to be born without medical complications?

Why stop at the unborn? Why not make it illegal for everyone to drink or smoke as it affects health, and costs the state money.

Why not let the government dictate all that we do to ensure we live the most insular, and yet most healthy life for the collective good.

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 1:58pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Apparently a lot of women in Ireland continue to smoke and drink during pregnancy.

If we legislate that abortion isn't allowed after a certain point (without medical reasons) then why is it not against the law to smoke/drink also. It seems a bit inconsistent. Surely the right to life should be the right to be born without medical complications?

How do you propose to enforce such a law, a Garda assigned to every pregnant woman?

Xcellor · 10-09-2019 1:59pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Easy answer, because its impossible to regulate or legislate for, a couple could smoke and drink and have absolutely no issues with their new born baby. Another couple could have genetic issues they did not know about, not smoke or drink, take all the right vitamins and do everything they are supposed to and the new born baby is born with medical complications, what legislation could possibly work here?

OK sure, medical complications as a result of smoking or drinking alcohol. Difficult to police granted but we have other laws that are also hard to police but sometimes having a law makes it more serious. Certainly wouldnt have pregnant women lighting up outside hospitals which happens routinely...

10-09-2019 1:59pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Sure its only a foetus at that stage. The mother comes first. Her body her choice.

You're waaaay too late for intervention. Not sure about eggs, but smoking affects the health of a man's sperm. Should stop all men from smoking to protect their millions of sperm. Because "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm divine!"

Xcellor · 10-09-2019 2:00pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

How do you propose to enforce such a law, a Garda assigned to every pregnant woman?

Nope just like we dont have gardai on every road enforcing speed limits.

Just enough encforcement and the "maybe I'll smoke" will becomes "Not worth it". Of course some will still smoke / drink but if it reduces it by 20% 10% 5% is it worth it?

gibgodsman · 10-09-2019 2:01pm

Xcellor wrote: »

OK sure, medical complications as a result of smoking or drinking alcohol. Difficult to police granted but we have other laws that are also hard to police but sometimes having a law makes it more serious. Certainly wouldnt have pregnant women lighting up outside hospitals which happens routinely...

You try come up with a piece of legislation that can be policed and makes complete sense and then I will listen, because there is no legislation for this

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 2:03pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Nope just like we dont have gardai on every road enforcing speed limits.

Just enough encforcement and the "maybe I'll smoke" will becomes "Not worth it". Of course some will still smoke / drink but if it reduces it by 20% 10% 5% is it worth it?

Cars are used in public so detection is relatively easy. Do you propose to police people in their own homes?

Earthhorse · 10-09-2019 2:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why stop at the unborn? Why not make it illegal for everyone to drink or smoke as it affects health, and costs the state money.

Why not let the government dictate all that we do to ensure we live the most insular, and yet most healthy life for the collective good.

Hear, hear!

10-09-2019 2:18pm

Send me location wrote: »

Big difference between harming other people through your behaviour and harming only yourself.

Why, shouldn't both be stopped? If someone put a gun to their own head, would the state intervene?

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 2:18pm

Send me location wrote: »

Just because a law is difficult to enforce doesn't mean it shouldn't be a law. Laws also set standards which are expected of citizens.

Enacting an unenforceable law is beyond ridiculous.

10-09-2019 2:21pm

Who the hell likes Oreos anyways. Probably the same people who likes Reeces Pieces.

Bannasidhe · 10-09-2019 2:25pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Apparently a lot of women in Ireland continue to smoke and drink during pregnancy.

If we legislate that abortion isn't allowed after a certain point (without medical reasons) then why is it not against the law to smoke/drink also. It seems a bit inconsistent. Surely the right to life should be the right to be born without medical complications?

Logically then shouldn't it be illegal to smoke in the presence of a pregnant woman?
If 2nd hand smoke is so dangerous for bar staff that smoking in pubs was banned then surely it should be banned any where near a pregnant woman as she would be being forced to inhale the nasty against her will?

Create exclusion zones around every single pregnant woman where absolutely no-one can smoke.

Personally, I'd be willing to sponsor pregnant women to stand outside shopping centres, cinemas, pubs, etc so I don't have to walk through, and inhale, the fug of other people's 2nd hand smoke.

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 2:32pm

Send me location wrote: »

It is not unenforceable to make it illegal to smoke while pregnant. If a police officer sees a pregnant woman smoking he can intervene and enforce the law.

It's an unenforceable law unless, by virtue of being pregnant a woman gives up the right to privacy in her own home. We don't have police officers here in Ireland.

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 2:35pm

Send me location wrote: »

Let's make rape and murder legal so.

Pathetic response.

Foweva Awone · 10-09-2019 2:48pm

There is currently a lot of support available for women in addiction who want to stop smoking and drinking. Make it illegal and you're making it more difficult for women to access those supports.

Addiction thrives in secrecy ... making drinking and smoking etc illegal in pregnancy won't stop women doing it, it'll just make sure that they hide that they're doing it. Not a good thing.

ceadaoin. · 10-09-2019 2:54pm

Send me location wrote: »

Let's make rape and murder legal so.

Do we have police checking up on everyone in their homes to make sure they aren't committing any crimes?

Op, we just had a thread about this, I think it was called "smoking during pregnancy". Why dont you have a read of that instead of starting yet another aren't women evil and need to be controlled' thread?

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 3:00pm

Send me location wrote: »

Apt username.

Allow me to translate your comment: "Oh sh1t, he has me in checkmate, he exposed my hypocrisy, better resort to a generic insult"

Nah dude , you're just another in a long line of people who wish to police the bodies of women.

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-09-2019 3:05pm

I thought it was a woman's right to do whatever she wanted to her unborn child

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 3:12pm

Send me location wrote: »

Ah you're one of them, makes sense now, you're driven by ideology, not logic.

You accuse me if having an absence of logic, yet you want a law which is unenforceable enacted. One of them? Explain yourself please.

Xcellor · 10-09-2019 3:24pm

Does something have to be 100% enforceable to be effective.

A law like this comes in, immediately it would stop women smoking outside hospitals/restaurants.

Of course how do you determine if a woman is pregnant? Not always easy to know. Imagine the story "I was arrested for smoking but I wasn't even pregnant!"

freshpopcorn · 10-09-2019 3:53pm

Mod NoteMoved from After Hours to Current Affairs!

Plumbthedepths · 10-09-2019 3:56pm

Xcellor wrote: »

Does something have to be 100% enforceable to be effective.

A law like this comes in, immediately it would stop women smoking outside hospitals/restaurants.

Of course how do you determine if a woman is pregnant? Not always easy to know. Imagine the story "I was arrested for smoking but I wasn't even pregnant!"

Could spell trouble for shall we say larger boned ladies, I assume the law envisaged would place the onus on the woman to prove she is not pregnant. It would appear to me said law would turn the basis of presumed innocent until proven guilty in its head.

10-09-2019 3:58pm

Send me location wrote: »

If a police officer sees a pregnant woman smoking he can intervene and enforce the law.

Garda "Here now, young laddie, you cannae be smoking around this pregnant lady"
Lady "wahaaaaa! I'm not pregnant"

Young "pregnant" lady jumps into river in despair, but only after kicking the garda in the bollocks.

Or should pregnant women have to go around wearing something like a yellow Star of David?

ceadaoin. · 10-09-2019 4:02pm

Send me location wrote: »

The law also has an effect on culture and what's socially acceptable. People drink drive much less now as it's been made socially unacceptable to do so. The starting point for making it socially unacceptable is making it crystal clear in law that it's not acceptable behaviour.

drink driving laws apply to all people equally, not just one segment of the population.

Child abuse?

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