Commencement notice

timm1 · 10-08-2019 10:59pm #1

This seems to have been answered before, but all the posts are quite old, so I'd like to confirm. I'm building an extension over 40sqm. Can I still opt out, I don't need a cert for mortgage etc, I have a very competent builder who I can trust. What do I need to submit? Any help much appreciated.

BryanF · 11-08-2019 11:36am

Commencement notice required.

You can opt out of the building ‘control’ regulations

But you cannot opt out of the building regulations.

Recommend you hire an arch or eng to sign off the building for planning and building regulations and to act as PSCS (health and safety)

timm1 · 11-08-2019 1:16pm

Thanks, what is the difference in control regulations?

Metric Tensor · 11-08-2019 1:21pm

The building regulations are the technical standards which must be met for all construction.

What you can opt out of is "statutory certification under SI 9." What this means is that you can opt out of the requirement for a building professional to sign a certificate at the end of the project confirming the building regulations have been met.

As per above you still have to comply with the buildings regulations so in the absence of a professional you and the builder are responsible for ensuring all building regulations are being met.

Alternatively - you can get a professional involved and still opt out of SI9 but get them to provide an "opinion on compliance" at the end.

timm1 · 13-08-2019 2:37pm

Thanks for the replies. I will be building as per building regs. I'm trying to submit the commencement notice at present, do you know what I should include in the drawings and general arrangement.

Gumbo · 13-08-2019 4:32pm

timm1 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I will be building as per building regs. I'm trying to submit the commencement notice at present, do you know what I should include in the drawings and general arrangement.

Drawings that demonstrate that the works will comply with the building regulations.

Have you got an architect/engineer over seeing the build?

timm1 · 13-08-2019 4:51pm

I had thought that the architect that done the planning drawings would have, but he seems lost with the bcms. I called three places today, two said it's not there thing, and one didn't say no, but didn't seem to know much more than I did. Is opt out a new thing? I have resigned myself to putting something together with the help of the builder, he seems to know his way around the home bond book pretty well.

Gumbo · 13-08-2019 5:47pm

timm1 wrote: »

I had thought that the architect that done the planning drawings would have, but he seems lost with the bcms. I called three places today, two said it's not there thing, and one didn't say no, but didn't seem to know much more than I did. Is opt out a new thing? I have resigned myself to putting something together with the help of the builder, he seems to know his way around the home bond book pretty well.

Planning drawings are not construction drawings or building regulation drawings.
It would be very rare for planning drawings to contain enough info to demonstrate compliance with building regulations unless you specifically engaged / paid the architect to this from the start.

Bear in mind the Homebond manual was published a good few years ago and hasn’t been updated.

timm1 · 13-08-2019 5:50pm

I understand that, I didn't expect him to do it for free. I didn't figure he would not do them at all.

sydthebeat · 13-08-2019 9:58pm

for an extension its a simple enough application.

what county?

mickdw · 13-08-2019 10:06pm

Any arch / Eng business who have not heard of opt out should be viewed very suspiciously.
I guess if a business is fully dealing with commercial stuff, they wont see opt out stuff at all but saying that, I fail to see how a business could have come through the dramatic changes to building control regs we saw in 2014 and not be away of the basics of it.
Some councils are basically accepting planning drawings at this stage.
It is very basic what is need right now for an extension to get a valid commencement notice.
This may change with new Part L as it's going to be a major shock for lots of people extending imo.

sydthebeat · 13-08-2019 10:10pm

mickdw wrote: »

This may change with new Part L as it's going to be a major shock for lots of people extending imo.

yep !!!!!

timm1 · 13-08-2019 11:03pm

It is sdcc, the reason I asked is it a new thing is because I couldn't fathom that professionals didn't know what it was.
Do you think I would get away with planning drawings with some detail? Also what do I need for general arrangement?
Its not that I'm trying to cut corners or cheap out, but being dumped in this position with the builer ready to go. I just don't seem to be able to get anyone to do this at short notice. Thanks for all the help, some great knowledge here.

Gumbo · 13-08-2019 11:24pm

timm1 wrote: »

It is sdcc, the reason I asked is it a new thing is because I couldn't fathom that professionals didn't know what it was.
Do you think I would get away with planning drawings with some detail? Also what do I need for general arrangement?
Its not that I'm trying to cut corners or cheap out, but being dumped in this position with the builer ready to go. I just don't seem to be able to get anyone to do this at short notice. Thanks for all the help, some great knowledge here.

Who is signing off the build?
I asked this earlier but got no response. They are the person that will prepare the construction drawings and should deal with the BCMS in my opinion.

timm1 · 14-08-2019 12:25am

I agree, but the person that was to do this is now reneging on it. So I thought by opting out I would not need anyone to sign off on it. Normally I wouldn't entertain this sort of situation, but if I don't get started soon I'll lose my spot with the builder and he can't fit it in until next summer.

timm1 · 15-08-2019 8:36am

Can anyone recommend someone who can do these drawings

mickdw · 15-08-2019 8:46am

I'm in mayo so no use to you.

Gumbo · 15-08-2019 11:50am

timm1 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend someone who can do these drawings

Where are you based?

timm1 · 15-08-2019 11:55am

kceire wrote: »

Where are you based?

dublin south

dingledosser · 04-10-2019 12:37pm

Hypothetical question I'm hoping someone can help me with.

What happens if your builder gets a bit carried away and begins work a week before the commencement notice date?

sydthebeat · 04-10-2019 1:22pm

dingledosser wrote: »

Hypothetical question I'm hoping someone can help me with.

What happens if your builder gets a bit carried away and begins work a week before the commencement notice date?

youre allowed to do "enabling works"...

the moment the commencement notice kicks in is when building regulations need to be complied with, and that point is usually before foundations are poured.

In reality, i dont think youre going to have any trouble if they started a bit early

jeepsterboy · 17-02-2021 12:05pm

can i ask how this was resolved? i'm in a similar situation. small extension, and thinking about opting out because i have a competent builder i trust...

Gumbo · 17-02-2021 2:59pm

jeepsterboy wrote: »

can i ask how this was resolved? i'm in a similar situation. small extension, and thinking about opting out because i have a competent builder i trust...

What resolution are you looking for?
What situation are you currently in?

Will you have any Professional Oversight during the works?

jeepsterboy · 17-02-2021 3:18pm

thanks for getting back.

situation is this. planning was granted in full.

i've now got a builder to - hopefully - start work in mid March, when restrictions on trades are eased.

professional oversight? i'm trusting my builder to work to the regs and don't anticipate any issues at all.

i therefore am unsure why there is a need for any further professional input - my builder will know as much as any engineer, possibly more than most of them, to be honest....

and that's why i am considering opting out .... i might think differently if this was a full house, a new build, or something that required mortgage approval, but it's a v small little room that's been added.

so that's where i am at the mo, and i wondered what happened to the orig poster and his predicament.

thxs again for coming back.

sydthebeat · 17-02-2021 3:39pm

One small room?

Under 40 sq m?

maestroamado · 17-02-2021 3:47pm

timm1 wrote: »

This seems to have been answered before, but all the posts are quite old, so I'd like to confirm. I'm building an extension over 40sqm. Can I still opt out, I don't need a cert for mortgage etc, I have a very competent builder who I can trust. What do I need to submit? Any help much appreciated.

What did the very competent builder advise, i think he be best to advise on this as i expect they will know what to do.
Personally i would likely "wing it"

jeepsterboy · 17-02-2021 3:54pm

thanks to you both (a bit over the 40).... the builder is leaving it with me at the moment, because i think he doesn't want to feel he's steering me..........

will give it another mull over. cheers!

mickdw · 17-02-2021 4:04pm

jeepsterboy wrote: »

thanks for getting back.

situation is this. planning was granted in full.

i've now got a builder to - hopefully - start work in mid March, when restrictions on trades are eased.

professional oversight? i'm trusting my builder to work to the regs and don't anticipate any issues at all.

i therefore am unsure why there is a need for any further professional input - my builder will know as much as any engineer, possibly more than most of them, to be honest....

and that's why i am considering opting out .... i might think differently if this was a full house, a new build, or something that required mortgage approval, but it's a v small little room that's been added.

so that's where i am at the mo, and i wondered what happened to the orig poster and his predicament.

thxs again for coming back.

The builder will or should work to a drawing.
It is not his responsibility to keep up to date on exact requirements or really not even possible as every build will be different regarding energy requirements now and specifically important too is whether the works affect 25 percent of the building envelope.
Considering all this, the best builder in the world will very possibly build a non compliant extension or at best a compliant one that will be difficult to prove compliance.
All thst is just on the energy side of things - what about the structure - yes the builder may well be well aware of what might be needed but he cannot certify it so again you are digging yourself into a hole.
You seem to think that the opt out means without engineer. This is not the case. It just releases you from the requirement to have an assigned certifier with all that entails.
You can out out, get Professional to specify what is required and then give this to builder. At least you will know what he is supposed to be doing. You should also keep that professional on board to inspect the works and they will then be happy to issue opinion on compliance with planning and building regs.
Never leave a builder to his own devices. Never let them get the Engineer either as in both situations you will end up with a botch.

Gumbo · 17-02-2021 5:07pm

jeepsterboy wrote: »

thanks for getting back.

situation is this. planning was granted in full.

i've now got a builder to - hopefully - start work in mid March, when restrictions on trades are eased.

professional oversight? i'm trusting my builder to work to the regs and don't anticipate any issues at all.

i therefore am unsure why there is a need for any further professional input - my builder will know as much as any engineer, possibly more than most of them, to be honest....

and that's why i am considering opting out .... i might think differently if this was a full house, a new build, or something that required mortgage approval, but it's a v small little room that's been added.

so that's where i am at the mo, and i wondered what happened to the orig poster and his predicament.

thxs again for coming back.

You can opt out and still engage professional over sight.

Have you done a Part L cross reference as per the new regulations?
What is the builder proposing for compliance?

maestroamado wrote: »

What did the very competent builder advise, i think he be best to advise on this as i expect they will know what to do.
Personally i would likely "wing it"

Most builders are aware of the regulations but not in a position or qualified to certify or sign off on them.

jeepsterboy wrote: »

thanks to you both (a bit over the 40).... the builder is leaving it with me at the moment, because i think he doesn't want to feel he's steering me..........

will give it another mull over. cheers!

A bit over 40m is a decent extension, relative to the main dwelling, so the Part L question above applies.

jeepsterboy · 17-02-2021 5:15pm

thanks again for the last few replies. very helpful, and much appreciated.......... getting out of my depth here, and need to digest some of this stuff. i thought the planning application was the hard bit!

DOCARCH · 17-02-2021 5:19pm

If the extension is 40 m.sq., or greater, BCAR applies.

You can opt out of BCAR but you still need to submit a set of drawings with your commencement notice to demonstrate how the works will comply with (all) the (relevant) building regulations.

Not sure how competent the builder will be at preparing those drawings and/or preparing/submitting the commencement notice?

jeepsterboy · 17-02-2021 5:20pm

yes, you might be right................

DOCARCH · 17-02-2021 5:25pm

jeepsterboy wrote: »

yes, you might be right................

I know I am right!

If you don't engage some sort of professional for the construction stages and if you ever want to sell, or re-mortgage, the house, it may bight back.

Gumbo · 18-02-2021 11:46am

jeepsterboy wrote: »

yes, you might be right................

And some Building Control Sections will look at the submitted drawings and if they are marked as Planning Only, they will invalidate the Notice.

boe · 21-05-2021 4:11pm

We are in similar position, have planning permission we now need to submit separate drawings for commencement notice, I.e. ground floor slab/rising walls, cills/lintels, wall plate/roof details. This is despite the fact we submitted commencement notice with opt out declaration! Any idea of the cost of getting these drawings done? Thanks

sydthebeat · 21-05-2021 4:55pm

boe wrote: »

We are in similar position, have planning permission we now need to submit separate drawings for commencement notice, I.e. ground floor slab/rising walls, cills/lintels, wall plate/roof details. This is despite the fact we submitted commencement notice with opt out declaration! Any idea of the cost of getting these drawings done? Thanks

'Opt Out' actually means you are MORE in need of building reg compliant drawings than not

You need to show the council that you know how to comply with building regs... at least on an 'Opt In' the council know theres someone engaged that will ensure full compliance.

Gumbo · 22-05-2021 8:01am

boe wrote: »

We are in similar position, have planning permission we now need to submit separate drawings for commencement notice, I.e. ground floor slab/rising walls, cills/lintels, wall plate/roof details. This is despite the fact we submitted commencement notice with opt out declaration! Any idea of the cost of getting these drawings done? Thanks

Proper and correct order.
You’ve opted out of statutory certification through the BCAR System, you have t opted out of Building Regulation Compliance.

VANG1 · 23-05-2021 10:13am

The big problem is if you ever need to sell the house you need to be able to prove compliance to the purchasers solicitor.

Commencement notice

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