Dr Ciara Kelly talking nonsense on Claire Byrne?

suicide_circus · 21-01-2016 11:47am

Dr Kelly is a talking head, self styled as the voice of the medical profession who is wheeled out by various media outlets when they need a young media-savvy doctor. She has presented George Hook's radio show when he was on holidays. She is a doctor and a "personality".

Snickers Man · 21-01-2016 12:51pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I know which group I'd rather have informing public health.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because somebody knows in intimate detail how the human digestive system works, they are equally knowledgeable about how to influence overall behaviour in society.

Doctors may well know what sort of general consumption patterns are best conducive to good health; what they are really bad at, in my opinion, is influencing society to adopt those behaviours. So they get frustrated that people can't see the wisdom of their advice and start demanding coercion instead.

Not clever.

ME: So what would you do?
You:
Look at other countries where they've reduced the harm drug/alcohol use causes to society and implement similar programmes and if that includes minimum pricing so be it.

Well absolutely!! That is what we should be doing. Isn't that what we did when we made a determined effort to reduce road deaths?

Who do we want to be like? Who did this already? How did they do it? Can we do something similar here? I believe Victoria Australia was the template and that is what we followed. REsult: in absolute terms a 50 per cent reduction in road fatalities in 10 years. Not bad.

Now. I see no evidence of a similar approach to our "drink problem". I would love to see a TV anchor, or radio presenter, just once ask an anti-alcohol abuse campaigner "Which country or society's attitude to alcohol is the best one to try and emulate here? Who's got it right? How should we go about modifying our behaviour to get there?"

Instead we get a lot of old bollocks about academic studies carried out in controlled environments that show what their creators always intended they show. Hint: when ever you see a "medical professional" say teh words "studies show" you can be fairly sure they are bull****ting.

If you could get one to answer the question "who do we want to be like?" we could then, as you say, look at ALL the factors that go to making that country's attitude to drink what it is. I am fairly certain "minimum unit pricing" will not be one of them.

Junkyard Tom · 21-01-2016 1:24pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Hint: when ever you see a "medical professional" say teh words "studies show" you can be fairly sure they are bull****ting.

Yeah, **** that 'empirical evidence' and 'scientific method' shit.

Snickers Man · 21-01-2016 2:56pm

Darkest Horse wrote: »

I was going to pick up on that myself but decided not to. I would assume the OP did this because he/she has watched one too many television shows in which the "Great British public" are allowed to vote/have a say. This, I understand, could be said another way: 'the population of Great Britain'. Unless the name of our country is now 'Great Ireland', I think the OP has got it wrong. Of course, we are great but we don't need to shout about it.

All right, Jesus. It was just an expression. Replace it with "Irish public in general then" if it irritates you so much.

Fusspots :rolleyes:

Snickers Man · 21-01-2016 3:03pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yeah, **** that 'empirical evidence' and 'scientific method' shit.

You know, if you just pulled your head out of your arse for a minute, you might see that I actually agree with much of what you say but rather than engage in a simple dialectic that might reveal much more common ground you would rather disappear down a rabbit hole of mutual abuse.

In a way, this reflects the silly and impertinent false balance/dichotomy of public discussion on this topic being limited to face offs between the medical profession and the drinks industry with which BOTH of us are frustrated.

And I am not decrying the scientific method or empirical evidence. Far from it. I am just drawing a distinction between controlled laboratory environments, when only certain variable factors are compared and all else are held constant and the real world where numerous "externalities" are in play.

rainbowtrout · 21-01-2016 6:01pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

He also pointed out that Ireland has the most expensive alcohol in Europe. (Actually my understanding is that we're only the second most expensive) "Make it more expensive!" urged the good doctor.

He's clearly never been to Norway then. Paid on average €9-10 for a pint in Oslo over the summer, and in one bar in Bergen paid €23 for two drinks :eek:

darkpagandeath · 21-01-2016 6:36pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

He's clearly never been to Norway then. Paid on average €9-10 for a pint in Oslo over the summer, and in one bar in Bergen paid €23 for two drinks :eek:

Sigh, You do know it's the Price over all for alcohol in Ireland. We are second on price for drink in the Entire EU/EZ just behind Finland. The stats are in many threads about this. We are first most expensive in the EU/EZ for cigarettes. Not being Irish and living here a very long time, I can tell you that Irish people do not drink to the levels being trotted out. You binge a bit more due to stupid laws simple as. Crazy price of drink = pre drinking to levels larger than places with cheap drink. Stupid closing times = Pre drinking on top of a nights consumption chucked into a few hours. And then you have the OMG the streets are red with blood lark. Well If you did not close the whole place at the same time you would not have this problem. You would have like most other places that have cheap drink and normal opening times a slow movement of drunk people to home in small numbers creating no problem. Drunk Tanks would be a good idea to and large fines for taking the piss.

Junkyard Tom · 21-01-2016 7:25pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

You know, if you just pulled your head out of your arse for a minute

I understand you're intensely frustrated but there's no need to get abusive.

you might see that I actually agree with much of what you say

It's difficult to disagree with the wise and righteous.

but rather than engage in a simple dialectic that might reveal much more common ground you would rather disappear down a rabbit hole of mutual abuse.

Sir, 'tis only your good self who has gotten thoroughly enraged.

In a way, this reflects the silly and impertinent false balance/dichotomy of public discussion on this topic being limited to face offs between the medical profession and the drinks industry with which BOTH of us are frustrated.

You conjured the false dichotomy, as if from thin air, and I observed the false balance, they're not the same.

And I am not decrying the scientific method or empirical evidence.

But you clearly are?

Originally Posted by Snickers Man
Hint: when ever you see a "medical professional" say teh words "studies show" you can be fairly sure they are bull****ting.

Far from it. I am just drawing a distinction between controlled laboratory environments, when only certain variable factors are compared and all else are held constant and the real world where numerous "externalities" are in play.

You cannot study large numbers of human being in a laboratory - it's impractical. We work with the evidence we can realistically collate.

I think your unbridled fury risks dragging this discussion into the gutter so I shall retire from it forthwith.

Have a good evening.

darkpagandeath · 21-01-2016 7:33pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I understand you're intensely frustrated but there's no need to get abusive.

It's difficult to disagree with the wise and righteous.

Sir, 'tis only your good self who has gotten thoroughly enraged.

You conjured the false dichotomy, as if from thin air, and I observed the false balance, they're not the same.

But you clearly are?

You cannot study large numbers of human being in a laboratory - it's impractical. We work with the evidence we can realistically collate.

I think your unbridled fury risks dragging this discussion into the gutter so I shall retire from it forthwith.

Have a good evening.

You a link to the laboratory testing in relation to shops near the dail selling below cost and below excise. As stated by Leo.

Snickers Man · 21-01-2016 8:05pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think your unbridled fury risks dragging this discussion into the gutter so I shall retire from it forthwith.

Have a good evening.

Good riddance.

Meh. It's After Hours. What can one expect.

Dr Ciara Kelly talking nonsense on Claire Byrne?

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