"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

20-05-2019 10:22am

Tyrion: "Will you lead the Seven Kingdoms to the best of your abilities from this day until your last day?"
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So the ultimate bad guy in the show was the Three-Eyed Raven. Knowing he would become king means knowing King's Landing was going to burn. He didn't warn anyone because he wanted the throne. He even sends the true heir to the Night's Watch so he can't be usurped.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 10:24am

valoren wrote: »

And for anyone who hasn't seen the show they'll now be less likely to invest time in watching 72 episodes given the lukewarm reaction to the final two seasons.

If the 6 seasons pull you along you'll probably try 7 although l'm not sure how many might sit through 8!

Mitch Connor · 20-05-2019 10:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

Tyrion: "Will you lead the Seven Kingdoms to the best of your abilities from this day until your last day?"
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So the ultimate bad guy in the show was the Three-Eyed Raven. Knowing he would become king means knowing King's Landing was going to burn. He didn't warn anyone because he wanted the throne.

He set it in motion, at least partly, by telling John of his claim to the throne knowing that John would never take it, but would tell the people that it would cause problems for.

And that is just breezed by, no one (in the show) noticed.

As soon as he said "Why do you think I came all this way?" - Tyrion should have known.

GSPfan · 20-05-2019 10:29am

I’m actually fine with it ending the way it ended. Lots of problems with how they did it and why they did it but it was the ending they set up so I guess they achieved it.

This isn’t a book spoiler cause I’ve only audiobooked the first few books but Bran is much more fleshed out I believe in the books so maybe tv version missed the mark a bit and that’s why it seems from my perspective that people are a bit underwhelmed by it all.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 10:30am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He set it in motion, at least partly, by telling John of his claim to the throne knowing that John would never take it, but would tell the people that it would cause problems for.

And that is just breezed by, no one (in the show) noticed.

As soon as he said "Why do you think I came all this way?" - Tyrion should have known.

That bit was terribly soapy - long lost twin type of thing! Without getting into "foreshadowing" he had to be there for some useful purpose with all that screen time!

hobie21 · 20-05-2019 10:32am

corny wrote: »

I feel dirty after watching that. Filth.

Unbelievable the vitriol thrown at this amazing series. Probably the most watched series in history and for a reason. You feel dirty because you are dirty and smelly you troll.

Shlippery · 20-05-2019 10:32am

Bran remained a man of few words, and there really was no big reveal for whatever he was up to during Theons last stand in Ep 3.

Agfdgfdhgfd

everlast75 · 20-05-2019 10:33am

I know I might be lynched for saying it (I did not read the books and am not a fanatic) but I still thought it was an excellent series overall. The last season did appear rushed and while I would have liked more series, or even more episodes in this series, I don't think it was a huge let down, like a lot of people do.

Kudos to the dragon, who realised it was the Iron Throne that killed Dany and not Jon.

And while Tyrion finding Jamie and Cersei might have gotten some of ye in the feels, Jon re-uniting with Ghost made it for me.

rob316 · 20-05-2019 10:33am

I have no problem with any of the outcomes but it needed more time the whole season, the pacing was awful and rushed. I was so disappointed when they wrapped up the battle of winterfell in one episode.
People seething over Bran are forgetting R Martin told the writers who the eventual king was. I liked that part it was a nice surprise.

I said already they killed the momentum of the show with the longer break, it raised it to ridiculous expectations that were never going to be met. Writers didn't know what to do with the longer run times - they packed the battles episodes with too much and the filler episodes weren't used to flesh out the plots and character changes.

People comparing it to the end of LOST need to have a lie down, nothing comes close to that pile of crap finale.

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 10:36am

hobie21 wrote: »

Unbelievable the vitriol thrown at this amazing series. Probably the most watched series in history and for a reason. You feel dirty because you are dirty and smelly you troll.

Amazing? Not entirely; in the main, up to the end of Season 6 it was very good. After that really not so much. A whole lot of that was undone in wrapping it up.

Penn · 20-05-2019 10:37am

Like most of the episodes this season, I enjoyed it for the most part. I enjoyed Dany's end and Drogon burning the throne. I liked most of the characters endings, it was about as well as it could have been done. Brienne completing Jamie's entry in the book was great too, I really liked that.

Again though, a few small additional scenes or lines of dialogue would have made all the difference. They sacrificed Jon to the Night's Watch to please the Unsullied and Dothraki even though the Unsullied at least left Westeros the same day as Jon was being sent off. Yara should have been arguing for it too given she pledged herself to Dany, and Jon should have agreed with his sentence (as otherwise like someone else upthread said, he would have been protected once he got to the North by Sansa anyway). They should have had Sansa float that idea to him during their goodbye, but have Jon say he'd go to the Night's Watch as that's where he really belongs and to keep the peace etc.

Bronn being Master of Coin and agreeing to give money to the Crown doesn't make much sense either considering the Lannisters stole all the money from Highgarden to pay off the Iron Bank. Brienne being Kingsguard to Bran doesn't make a lot of sense either, it would have made more sense for her to be Queensguard to Sansa.

The worst part of the episode though hands-down was Sam saying the name of the book. Holy f*ck who thought that was a good idea? And Tyrion doesn't get mentioned in it even as "Hand of the King to Joffrey" or anything? Either way, a horribly ham-fisted excuse for fan-service worse than most of the other fan-service that's happened this season.

I liked this season on the whole though. It limped over the finish line, but overall I don't think it was bad enough to tarnish the show completely, though it has definitely created a stigma of an unsatisfying conclusion that it will likely never shake off even in retrospect.

Necro · 20-05-2019 10:39am

dark crystal wrote: »

I must have been one of the few people who really enjoyed this last season from start to (almost) finish.

I can't forgive them that ending, though.

****ing Brandon Stark as King of the six kingdoms? Whaaaaat?? He's done nothing to deserve that. Nothing. Going from no interest in power of any kind to stating that he travelled "all this way" to become King!? Wtf

Aegon Targeryan is then banished to the Night's Watch just like he was as a bastard. Saves the world a few times, but sure, banishment is good enough for him while his useless cousin gets to rule the world he saved.

That's the end to Jon's story after everything? Really?? It's ****ed me right off :mad:

No you ain't alone. I really liked this season and was willing to ignore the flaws it had....

But Bran on the throne really annoyed me too.

Hyzepher · 20-05-2019 10:42am

So hold on now!

The whole war of the iron throne was directly a result of multiple people believing that they were the rightful king. Not accepting anyone else's claim and willing to kill everyone in their way to get it. Then suddenly they give up the throne to someone who would never in a million years ever get it. They are all willing to be ruled by someone who didn't even have an obvious role in defeating Cercei.

Not even remotely plausible

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 10:42am

Penn wrote: »

Like most of the episodes this season, I enjoyed it for the most part. I enjoyed Dany's end and Drogon burning the throne. I liked most of the characters endings, it was about as well as it could have been done. Brienne completing Jamie's entry in the book was great too, I really liked that.

Again though, a few small additional scenes or lines of dialogue would have made all the difference. They sacrificed Jon to the Night's Watch to please the Unsullied and Dothraki even though the Unsullied at least left Westeros the same day as Jon was being sent off. Yara should have been arguing for it too given she pledged herself to Dany, and Jon should have agreed with his sentence (as otherwise like someone else upthread said, he would have been protected once he got to the North by Sansa anyway). They should have had Sansa float that idea to him during their goodbye, but have Jon say he'd go to the Night's Watch as that's where he really belongs and to keep the peace etc.

Bronn being Master of Coin and agreeing to give money to the Crown doesn't make much sense either considering the Lannisters stole all the money from Highgarden to pay off the Iron Bank. Brienne being Kingsguard to Bran doesn't make a lot of sense either, it would have made more sense for her to be Queensguard to Sansa.

The worst part of the episode though hands-down was Sam saying the name of the book. Holy f*ck who thought that was a good idea? And Tyrion doesn't get mentioned in it even as "Hand of the King to Joffrey" or anything? Either way, a horribly ham-fisted excuse for fan-service worse than most of the other fan-service that's happened this season.

I liked this season on the whole though. It limped over the finish line, but overall I don't think it was bad enough to tarnish the show completely, though it has definitely created a stigma of an unsatisfying conclusion that it will likely never shake off even in retrospect.

If they were keeping them all alive they had to give them a "purpose". Book, Bronn, Drogon and the throne, masses of Dothraki and Unsullied, Sam and Grey Worm were all large irritants in this but it still delivered a reasonable ending if you expected nothing of it.

hobie21 · 20-05-2019 10:43am

Penn wrote: »

Like most of the episodes this season, I enjoyed it for the most part. I enjoyed Dany's end and Drogon burning the throne. I liked most of the characters endings, it was about as well as it could have been done. Brienne completing Jamie's entry in the book was great too, I really liked that.

Again though, a few small additional scenes or lines of dialogue would have made all the difference. They sacrificed Jon to the Night's Watch to please the Unsullied and Dothraki even though the Unsullied at least left Westeros the same day as Jon was being sent off. Yara should have been arguing for it too given she pledged herself to Dany, and Jon should have agreed with his sentence (as otherwise like someone else upthread said, he would have been protected once he got to the North by Sansa anyway). They should have had Sansa float that idea to him during their goodbye, but have Jon say he'd go to the Night's Watch as that's where he really belongs and to keep the peace etc.

Bronn being Master of Coin and agreeing to give money to the Crown doesn't make much sense either considering the Lannisters stole all the money from Highgarden to pay off the Iron Bank. Brienne being Kingsguard to Bran doesn't make a lot of sense either, it would have made more sense for her to be Queensguard to Sansa.

The worst part of the episode though hands-down was Sam saying the name of the book. Holy f*ck who thought that was a good idea? And Tyrion doesn't get mentioned in it even as "Hand of the King to Joffrey" or anything? Either way, a horribly ham-fisted excuse for fan-service worse than most of the other fan-service that's happened this season.

I liked this season on the whole though. It limped over the finish line, but overall I don't think it was bad enough to tarnish the show completely, though it has definitely created a stigma of an unsatisfying conclusion that it will likely never shake off even in retrospect.

The show was made for TV and to please the masses, not just the die hard book fans. Compromises had to be made so I think it did a fair enough job in its conclusion.

Nody · 20-05-2019 10:44am

Hyzepher wrote: »

So hold on now!

The whole war of the iron throne was directly a result of multiple people believing that they were the rightful king. Not accepting anyone else's claim and willing to kill everyone in their way to get it. Then suddenly they give up the throne to someone who would never in a million years ever get it. They are all willing to be ruled by someone who didn't even have an obvious role in defeating Cercei.

Not even remotely plausible

The only way I see it (and it's weak) is that they see it as a chance to grab more power for themselves by having a weak uninterested king who'll not bother to check on them.

Exclamation Marc · 20-05-2019 10:46am

is_that_so · 20-05-2019 10:48am

Nody wrote: »

The only way I see it (and it's weak) is that they see it as a chance to grab more power for themselves by having a weak uninterested king who'll not bother to check on them.

I think there was an attempt(rushed and not terribly well done) to get the idea of war weariness across as well as the novelty of actually picking a king. Mostly it was just spouting lines, though.

First Up · 20-05-2019 10:49am

I've said I'm not as immersed in it as many here but there has been nothing -zero, diddly squat - in anything I've seen of Bran to suggest he has even the remotest entitlement to anything.

He has obviously played some key part in it all that I completely missed. Can anyone summarise it for me?

Exclamation Marc · 20-05-2019 10:53am

First Up wrote: »

I've said I'm not as immersed in it as many here but there has been nothing -zero, diddly squat - in anything I've seen of Bran to suggest he has even the remotest entitlement to anything.

He has obviously played some key part in it all that I completely missed. Can anyone summarise it for me?

I think if anyone needs to summarise it to you, it just shows that it was either the wrong decision for him to be King or a decision that needed more exposition.

And I think it was the latter.

Dial Hard · 20-05-2019 10:54am

I'm with this guy.

D6_53DhXsAAF-j2?format=jpg&name=small

johnny_ultimate · 20-05-2019 10:54am

I was never a big fan of Game of Thrones, but something I truly appreciated about the first couple of seasons was how 'anti Lord of the Rings' it was (Lord of the Rings being a broad stand-in for a certain style of fantasy). Whereas the big name fantasy was often this hero-driven, crowdpleasing storytelling, Game of Thrones was cruel and ruthless. It was adult - often in the adolescent HBO sense of tits, gore and swearing, but more admirably in the sense of its willingness to surprise and challenge the audience's expectations of the storytelling. I don't want to paint it as a particularly radical piece of storytelling or anything - but it was something different.

The Game of Thrones finale, like much of the final season, was very Lord of the Rings. It wraps things up tidily and predictably. Every character gets their moment of triumph or release - even Jon, who suffers most out of the survivors, seems to find peace despite exile and loss of his one true love. Evil was conquered (any ambiguity about Dany swiftly extinguished in her delusional final speeches, and, y'know, the genocide) and the good guys prevail.

Taken on those terms, it's not a bad example of the form. The high production values remain (although truly thought that dragon shot was super contrived and cheesy), and we get some final moments of brilliance from the show's ultimate star Ramin Djawadi. It is *nice* to see our heroes end up pretty much all where they deserve to be - whether that's on a new adventure, or taking their rightful seat of power. There are *nice* crowdpleasing, funny and triumphant moments throughout - a personal favourite was Davos chiming in that he doesn't think he gets a vote.

But *nice* isn't a word I'd have expected to invoke when it comes to Game of Thrones. It's representative of where the show has ended up. To me, it's a show that rather than doubling down on its unique aspects as it became more popular, it decided to fade into the crowd. It made fan favourite characters invincible because they were fan favourites. It's not the resolutions or destinations here don't make sense (although some of the dodgier writing does its best to make it seem that way). It's that everything feels neat and tidy. Game of Thrones at its best wasn't neat or tidy - it was messy, bloody and surprising.

There are more specific problems here. Some of the characters act bizarrely in the first half of the episode, and you don't know which version of them you're going to get from scene to scene. Tyrion explaining to Jon why Dany was not a good queen was preposterous for me - even given Jon's love for her, someone having to persuade him that the genocide he just witnessed wasn't a good omen was pretty dumb. But I think individual examples of shaky writing are ultimately a symptom of the macro-level problems. Game of Thrones bowed out as a rollicking, familiar, crowdpleasing fantasy epic - it just didn't necessarily start out that way.

As an aside, here's one of the best pieces of writing about the season I've read, from writer & academic Zeynep Tufekci. Written before this episode, but IMO takes a fascinating alternative perspective on the show's shift in approach: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

Nody · 20-05-2019 10:55am

First Up wrote: »

I've said I'm not as immersed in it as many here but there has been nothing -zero, diddly squat - in anything I've seen of Bran to suggest he has even the remotest entitlement to anything.

He has obviously played some key part in it all that I completely missed. Can anyone summarise it for me?

Got crippled by Tyrion's brother; was the target for the NK to attack Winterfell and told Sansa & Arya the truth about John's inheritance. Oh and don't want to rule anything and lives in the past but was planning to become king all along.

meeeeh · 20-05-2019 10:56am

Nody wrote: »

The only way I see it (and it's weak) is that they see it as a chance to grab more power for themselves by having a weak uninterested king who'll not bother to check on them.

It's not just that. A lot of the Iron Born were wiped out in one or the other Sea Battle. Baratheons just got a new head who used to be a blacksmith. Tyrells are gone and replaced by Bronn. Tyrion is the only Lannister left, their army mostly gone. Martells, Tullys, Eyrie have done ok but two of those houses are in one or other way connected to the Starks. Starks were actually the best connected and probably the strongest family left. when they got a king who can't start a dynasty it was the easiest person to agree on. What bothers me is how easily and quickly they got to that conclusion.

GavRedKing · 20-05-2019 11:00am

It 100% needed another season. 6 episodes to wrap up 2 major stories was the stupidest thing I've ever seen, looking back.

I guessed Bran would be king before the season started only because I felt theyed pull some mad switch fir the sake of it but that ending left a lot to be desired m

I'm not one for fan service but if that's how GRRM wants to end the books, he's better off not completing them.

Nody · 20-05-2019 11:04am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As an aside, here's one of the best pieces of writing about the season I've read, from writer & academic Zeynep Tufekci. Written before this episode, but IMO takes a fascinating alternative perspective on the show's shift in approach: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

New favorite term to be thrown into conversations; Arya ex machina :P

alchemist33 · 20-05-2019 11:06am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tyrion: "Will you lead the Seven Kingdoms to the best of your abilities from this day until your last day?"
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So the ultimate bad guy in the show was the Three-Eyed Raven. Knowing he would become king means knowing King's Landing was going to burn. He didn't warn anyone because he wanted the throne. He even sends the true heir to the Night's Watch so he can't be usurped.

This is it. The three eyed raven, probably one of the least explored characters in the story, manipulated everything, allowing thousands (or a million) deaths, to ultimately rule. And no character seemed to notice or care. It's a terribly-written ending.

touts · 20-05-2019 11:08am

Bran's been high as a kite for the last 3 seasons and he's the one who they pick as King? On the basis that he tells good stories? Has he said anything that went into double figures this season.

This season was at times excellent but really suffered from having only 6 episodes. It felt like they reached the point of Dany being dead and suddenly realized they only had 20min and no budget left to tie it all up. Imagine if we were facing into another two episodes with Jon and Tyrion in prison for treason and the council being called to trash it all out. They could go into the politics of power and over the next couple of episodes we could see Bran or whoever be chosen in a considered manner. Arya might have had to kill a couple of hardliner characters like Greyworm etc. We could have seen Sam become a Maester, Brienne opt to join the Kings Guard etc. It would just have felt more developed and rounded.

md23040 · 20-05-2019 11:12am

The only thing more annoying than the storyline for me was that Tyrion sounded very like Stewie Griffin (Family Guy) throughout the final episode. Maybe Peter Dinklage knew it was a steaming pile of dung and decided to ham it up and take the piss.

20-05-2019 11:12am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tyrion: "Will you lead the Seven Kingdoms to the best of your abilities from this day until your last day?"
Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"

So the ultimate bad guy in the show was the Three-Eyed Raven. Knowing he would become king means knowing King's Landing was going to burn. He didn't warn anyone because he wanted the throne. He even sends the true heir to the Night's Watch so he can't be usurped.

You said it better than I posted earlier but, yip, in s nutshell.

everlast75 · 20-05-2019 11:16am

I don't know if links to humourous tweets are allowed here, but it can be removed by a mod if not.

We could all do with some levity anyway

https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1130292581173202945?s=19

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 11:16am

So Greyworm is killing Lannister soldiers one minute because they fought against his queen.
Jon kills Dany, taken prisoner by Greyworm. **** off.

What a pile of ****e of an ending. Far too happy for this show.

Pupper at least got a scratch behind the ear this time.

dsmythy · 20-05-2019 11:16am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just saw on Reddit that probably the biggest plot hole was any of the kingdoms even caring about the powerless throne in a ruined city.

The Targaryens created the throne that rules the seven kingdoms. It makes absolutely no sense that each wouldn't just declare independence and ask Bran what he was gonna do about it. It's even worse that they were all chill with the North getting independence, and are now going to ruled by someone not from the six kingdoms; They're going to be ruled by the true heir of the kingdom that just became independent.

If there was another season one of the first port of calls would be people in each kingdom asking their Lord if they should be independent too.

Tyrion ought to warn Bran about this but he's useless these days. Bran's first mistake which will cause disquiet and future conflict. Wheel keeps turning etc.

20-05-2019 11:19am

This from Reddit made me laugh out loud.

"Chaos is a ramp"

dsmythy · 20-05-2019 11:22am

My favourite part was the Lords laughing at the idea of everyone voting. I would have been sick at the idea of a kingdom switching that quickly to democracy.

sideswipe · 20-05-2019 11:26am

Really wanted Drogon to blast Jon with fire only for him to walk out of the flames reborn of dragon fire like a true Targaryen.

BoJack Horseman · 20-05-2019 11:26am

I liked it!

It pretty much as it needed to and as many had predicted.

paulbok · 20-05-2019 11:27am

Ferajacka wrote: »

Who was the prince we were promised?

Think at this stage it has to be G.R.R. Martin. The only one who can salvage the story now.

20-05-2019 11:27am

Considering the show was largely filmed in Northern Ireland, I did get a chuckle during Tyrion's 'Bran for President' speech when he emphasised that 'Flags don't matter' :pac:

OneOfThem Stumbled · 20-05-2019 11:27am

Tyrion: Hail to Bran the Boring, King of the 7, I mean 6 Kingdoms, something something, first of his name.
Ser Render: My lord hand, I have bad news. Dorne and the Iron Islands have declared independence.
Tyrion: Hail to Bran the Boring, King of the 4 Kingdoms, first of his name. We must march our armies to take back these rebellious provinces!
Ser Render: My lord we have no armies. Queen Daenerys' troops have left for Essos. The Lannister forces are wiped out. The northmen have returned to their own kingdom.
Tyrion: We must raise troops then! Send the criers down every lane and alley in King's Landing announcing that the armed forces are recruiting.
Ser Render: My lord, there are no lanes or alleys, or town criers left. We have also just received word from the Stormlands. The lords there say they have the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne and are claiming suzerainty over the whole of Westeros.

*Canned laughter*
*Tyrion looks at the camera*
*Sienfield theme plays.*

ThePott · 20-05-2019 11:35am

Got in a debate with a friend recently about this last season (last two seasons?).

He was arguing that all the stuff that happens makes sense, he's read the books etc. Which I feel having read the books at this point is irrelevant as we've moved far beyond them and the context of the show is all that matters.

I was arguing that none of that matters because of the execution. I think that's what this comes down to, there are good ideas here that work but they are so poorly executed and rushed they come off as implausible. With some build-up or room to breathe a lot of these things could have worked but they don't because you almost get blindsided by them and it gives the impression that characters are only acting as they do for the plot, the progression between plot points was sped up to an insane degree and for that there's no way anything could have ever been satisfying coming into the end.

20-05-2019 11:36am

it was a disappointing end, but I can't really see it having gone any other way.

The thing that has kept us all intrigued is the constant plot twists and killing off people we think are going to be the final king/queen. When it comes to a conclusion and there are no plot twists left, it was always going to end in disappointment.

It needed one more episode though, after Dany was killed, they just seemed to rush it to an end. Dany turning in to the evil emperor/syth lord in a kind of Star Wars way was a great storyline that could have taken the whole episode, with Jon killing her the climactic end.

Next weeks show should have been the final one, with more time given to the plotting and creation of the final outcome.

everlast75 · 20-05-2019 11:40am

I was told Martin wrote the books and the TV show caught up with it, and is it right to say that the TV series overtook the books?

If so, will Martin complete the books, or has he already?

If he has is the issue, not with what Martin wrote, but how the directors told the story, or is it both?

Exclamation Marc · 20-05-2019 11:43am

BoJack Horseman · 20-05-2019 11:44am

Aegir wrote: »

Next weeks show should have been the final one, with more time given to the plotting and creation of the final outcome.

One more episode would have been appropriate and appreciated in hindsight.

rob316 · 20-05-2019 11:45am

everlast75 wrote: »

I was told Martin wrote the books and the TV show caught up with it, and is it right to say that the TV series overtook the books?

If so, will Martin complete the books, or has he already?

If he has is the issue, not with what Martin wrote, but how the directors told the story, or is it both?

Martin told the writers who would be king and how Dany turns out but they just didn't know how to get there.

IvySlayer · 20-05-2019 11:50am

Hard to believe that the Unsullied and the dothraki wouldn't have killed Jon and everyone else after Danys death..

Huntergonzo · 20-05-2019 11:52am

So that’s it, no more Game of Thrones, I have to say it was one of the best tv series I’ve ever watched, even if it did end on rushed/disappointing note. It can be so hard to bring about a satisfying end to any tv series, but GOT in particular, with all its diehard fans, diehard fans of GRRM’s books and massive array of intriguing and beloved characters and story arcs must have been a nightmare to bring to a conclusion.

So focusing on the episode itself, I think it was a little weak, a little bit dull/boring if I’m honest, there’s too much walking around pondering with not a whole pile happening. Then there’s Daenerys who’s become the very thing see set out to destroy, the tyrannical tyrant, only for Jon Snow to save the day yet again. Bit strange though that neither the Dothraki nor the Unsullied slaughtered Jon Snow on the spot, he killed their beloved Queen who they’ve been following passionately for all this time, only to basically give Jon Snow a free pass, bizarre.

Then there’s Jon himself, one of the real good guys, the hero of many wars, the man who made peace with the wildlings, a truly just figure in an often savage world, where does he end up? a destitute outcast heading off into the snowy abyss. I understand it would be very difficult for him to be king after killing Danny (even though he was right to do so), but it’s hardly a satisfying end for such a big character.

Then we turn to our monarchs, Sansa is Queen in the North, which I have to say was no real surprise, for the last 2-3 seasons I had her pinned down as a Queen of some sort and the North makes the most sense. But Bran and the sudden birth of democracy, not sure where they came from, Bran seems like a very left of field choice and for everyone (bar his sister) to back him on the spot is almost comical.

Also the small council seems a little far-fetched, a bit too much like a happy ending for GOT, I like all the characters, especially Bronn, but him as master of the coin, come on. Also there’s no badie on the council, again very unGOT.

Anyway over all I feel seasons 1-4 were outstanding, 5-7 were notably down on quality but still good and provided the odd piece of genius (think Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, the reveal of Jon Snow’s true identity etc), but season 8 was average at best. I do feel there’s an online campaign to make everyone hate the last season which I’m not inclined to go along with, I don’t despise it but it’s a poor enough finish to a great series, it deserved better but it wasn’t exactly an abomination either.

leggo · 20-05-2019 12:00pm

ricero wrote: »

A total flop of an ending and final series. I look forward to leggo trying to defend this mess lol

What a weird thing to say. I've had misgivings about this season: Lyanna killing the giant, Jon just giving away Ghost etc. I just haven't followed along the mob mentality and gone to town on a show I like that the rest of the world is fine with. Don't believe me?

https://twitter.com/binge_mode/status/1130298223258509312

That's the majority of a 20,000 person vote of GoT fans saying they loved or thought the finale was fine. Just 14% share the majority opinion on here, meaning the majority opinion on here is less shared than the anti-repeal or anti-gay marriage votes in Ireland. I mean, sorry, it just became the cool thing to slate this season here. Maybe it's because Irish people can't hack a 3am bedtime and are cranky...who knows? But trying to call me out publicly for stating a majority opinion is weird behaviour dude.

As for my own thoughts on the finale...

I wasn't mad on 'Bran the Broken' tbh and I'm still not. I could've been but I wish they gave that twist a bit more runway. Deciding now that "stories" are the most important thing, having never been mentioned before, is very random. It's a questionable plot choice but I guess it was the one GRRM dictated for them. I'd find it funny if he went a totally different way and the choice was made just to mess the show up. But we'll likely never know. The greatest conman of our time, and I don't mean that as an insult. If they'd have gone along the route of "cripples, bastards and broken things" even, that would've been a theme of the show that had pre-established. But no. What matters now are 'stories' for some reason. Okay.

Having said that, I did like them actually addressing that there was a realm outside of the main characters and bringing back some old faces. Edmure nominating himself made me laugh a LOT, I'm so happy they made time for that. I think that whole scene and decision-making process would've made for a fantastic full, extended episode. But oh well, we got what we got...

LOVED everything up until that scene. I've went through why I loved Jon killing Dany already. Having elongated conversations and scenes with room to breathe build to it was also refreshing considering the rushed pace of the season.

Happy with everyone who survived. Happy with the roles they're filling. Jon being a tragic hero but stumbling into a happy ending for him anyway is fitting. I found it ballsy they made Sansa a bit power hungry towards the end, you could tell she was waiting for everyone to nominate her for the throne (and she should've been; by far the most qualified character), but an independent North makes sense too. Sure I could be a knob and nitpick, but would "The Prince of Dorne is actually really good at budgeting" have been a better ending than having the small counsel of faces we know having the craic? Glad they did the ASOIAF nod with Sam. But it also dispels the myth that Sam is GRRM's avatar: because at least he can finish a ****ing book.

Clareman · 20-05-2019 12:00pm

So Jon starts the show wanting to join the Night Watch which is he able to join then get out of but his punishment is to go back to it? Grey Worm is happy out killing people that fought in another army rather than hold them as prisioners but he's ok keeping the killer of his queen as a priosioner as well as someone else who was sentenced to die.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Comments