Commonly believed historical inaccuracies

Manach wrote: »

Peter Kemp, a Nationalist volunteer in the book "Mine were of trouble", had a negative view of Mr. O'Duffy's leadership but he did mention a number of other Irish soldiers who served with distinction having been assigned to the brigade from other units.

Manach wrote: »

The Spanish nationalist cause was served by variety of different social groups across a wide political spectrum. Glib comments like this are more at home in After Hours.

magicbastarder wrote: »

genuinely don't know whether this is true or not - that the 'st. patrick drove the snakes out of ireland' legend is actually a proxy for 'st. patrick drove the druids/paganism out of ireland'. anyone got any links on that?

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

For such an early saint we know an incredibly rich about Patrick but the snakes thing seems to be a much later legend. It is possible that the snakes is a metaphor for paganism or the druids but you can get similar metaphors in the Bible.


Snakes do fine in Irish weather. They just never made it here after the last Ice Age. To the contrary I question the whole paganism was repackaged as christianity argument. Ireland rapidly became extremely well connected to the rest of Europe and indeed Rome. I don't buy the idea people became some kind of half pagan and half Christian society Paganism seems to have continued for a few hundred years but not after that as a religion but it seem to become more as a new mythology. Some think the druids became a poet caste in the new Christian society.

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not half pagan half christian but did develop saints and rituals distinct to Ireland borrowed from Irish paganism

Although it is generally accepted that Imbolc was originally a pagan festival celebrating the beginning of Spring, there is absolutely no direct testimony as to its original customs or rituals. Most of the traditions we now associate with Imbolc are specifically associated with St Brigid of Kildare, who was the dominant female figure in the late medieval Irish church. While the Christian Saint Brigid does share some of her attributes with a literary/mythological character also called Brigid: this overlap has led many modern writers and scholars to assume that a specific goddess named Brigid also enjoyed similar prominence in pre-Christian Ireland. . .

. . . And while many of those same writers and scholars are quick to point out the lack of historical evidence that the Christian St Brigid ever actually existed, they are equally as quick to apply her traditions to a goddess for which there is even less evidence for.

The idea that saint and goddess are the same entity can be traced back, not to antiquity, but to the Celtic revivalists of the Victorian age. In fact the first explicit identification of the pagan goddess with the saint of Kildare is made by continental Celticist, Henri d'Arbois de Jubainville in his 1884 work, ‘Le cycle mythologique irlandais et la mythologie celtique’, where he makes the now-familiar claim that…

“... Brigit, goddess of the pagan Irish, was supplanted in the Christian era by Saint Brigit, and the Irish of the Middle Ages transferred in some way to this national saint the cult that their pagan ancestors had addressed to the goddess Brigit”.

This theory has been embraced wholeheartedly by Neo-pagans ever since, often citing dubious texts to back up their claim. While there is no doubt that the traditions associated with St Brigid can be traced back to pre-Christian beliefs, it is likely that many of the ritual sites and customs now associated with her were originally focused on various, local goddess figures, not a singular deity as is the general consensus today.

The earliest text that references both the saint and the goddess Brigid is the 10th-century text, ‘Sanas Cormaic’ (Cormac’s Glossary), which refers to each of the Brigids as separate entities; with neither associated with Imbolc.

“Brigid, a poetess, daughter of the Dagda. This is Brigid the female sage or woman of wisdom, Brigid the goddess whom poets adored, for great was her protecting care. It is, therefore, they call her goddess of poets by this name. Whose sisters were Brigid woman of healing and Brigid woman of smith-work; from whose names with all Irishmen a goddess was called Brigid.”

Interestingly the passage indicates that ‘Brigid’ was a name by which all goddesses were known in Ireland. This ties in with the view of many etymologists that the word ‘Brigid’, which comes from the Proto-Celtic word ‘Briganti’ meaning ‘exalted one’, was used as a title and not a name per se.

Although we cannot prove her existence, it is possible that the abbey at Kildare was founded by a woman in the late 5th Century who was given the title ‘Brigid’ by the mainly pagan population that she administered to. Remember this was the late 5th early 6th Centuries: Christianity wasn’t yet an organised religion in Ireland, it was just the latest hoodoo for the pagan masses.

However, within a hundred years or so of her supposed death on the 1st of Feb c.525, we start seeing hagiographies being written that contain many of the stories and customs we now associate with St Brigid. Over the centuries as these traditions have coalesced around her, the legendary St Brigid has become a Christianised composite of various pre-Christian female deities and myths. It is this composite of Christian and pagan traditions that the singular Neo-Pagan goddess Brigid has been over-layed onto, creating a self-referential, meta-mythical narrative that has no real basis in the historical or literary sources.
https://www.facebook.com/monumentalireland/posts/2612626828792045?comment_id=2612783878776340&reply_comment_id=2612786325442762&notif_id=1580507512305981&notif_t=feed_comment_reply

breezy1985 wrote: »

More an English one but:

Nancy Astor was the first woman elected to British Parliament

magicbastarder wrote: »

is that commonly believed?

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Biggest one promoted by the Irish and British media in recent times :

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1) Britain had plans to invade Ireland in 1940 and set up a British dictator to rule - like Germany in Poland

...

RandomViewer wrote: »

Don't ever think that was enforced, quite a few retired guards about here and they aren't anywhere near that,

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

The Irish history podcast did a series on Irish involvement on both sides of the Spanish civil war - one of the episodes was focused on O'Duffy and the Blueshirts. Its a good listen:
https://irishhistorypodcast.ie/partisansv/

whisky_galore wrote: »

Scottish clan tartans, largely a 19th century invented tradition with the mania for all things Scottish.
Irish Americans love "Irish" kilts with spurious Irish family tartans.

Aran jumpers aren't that ancient, a scheme started in the late 1800s/early 1900s to provide local employment and ruthlessly exploited by the tourist industry, souvenir trade and Clancy Bros ever since. The patterns were not intended to identify a wearer whose body had been recovered from the sea either.

Manach wrote: »

Hannibal did not bring the modern variety of Elephants over the Alps. Instead he used the sub-species (unfortunately now extinct) found in the Atlas mountains which were both smaller and more nimble than the modern Elephant.

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably been said already but the biggest one for me, having been educated in England in the 80s was King Harold being killed by an arrow in his eye in the battle of Hastings in 1066. It was taught to generations of English kids as historical lore. And is completely untrue.

Manach wrote: »

Hannibal did not bring the modern variety of Elephants over the Alps. Instead he used the sub-species (unfortunately now extinct) found in the Atlas mountains which were both smaller and more nimble than the modern Elephant.