If Work From Home becomes a thing...

gnf_ireland · 07-05-2020 10:55pm

Granadino wrote: »

I work in digital marketing, and in theory, we could all be working from home all the time, but it's not the case. I am based between here and abroad and would be in the office, under normal circumstances every other month for a week or so. I'm not sure we will be changing to 100% wfh after this is all over, but in theory, could do.

I think in any collaborative environment, I don't think 100% remote is realistic, at least not for a while. There are benefits in face to face, that cannot be replaced no matter how many zoom calls you are on !!

I think more transactional environments may be easier to be 100% remote

gnf_ireland · 07-05-2020 10:57pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd still rather 60 mins a day than 1 day having a 4 hour commute.
I also reckon your employer wouldnt see it as their problem that your commute was 4 hours and they would still expect you to be in the office for your normal hours...

I think that would still be fine if it was a regular, say every Tuesday, in the office. The big problem I would see is if the employer decided at will they wanted you in the office tomorrow, and you had to change all your plans to accommodate it

Driving for 2 hours 'consistently' is still easier than 60 minutes stop/start in heavy traffic !

08-05-2020 10:17am

GreeBo wrote: »

Going rural would only really work if you were 100% from home.
If you need to be in the office on an adhoc or even 1 or 2 days a week then it would be a total pain in the arse to have to travel for 3 hours each way IMO.

Rural is a mile or so outside of Staffan, Rathcoole, Newcastle etc. It's doesn't have to be 3 hours away.

GreeBo · 08-05-2020 11:57am

Augeo wrote: »

Rural is a mile or so outside of Staffan, Rathcoole, Newcastle etc. It's doesn't have to be 3 hours away.

It doesnt have to be, but people need to be clear what they mean by rural. Some people are clearly talking about a significant change from the outskirts of Leinster.

GreeBo · 08-05-2020 11:58am

gnf_ireland wrote: »

I think that would still be fine if it was a regular, say every Tuesday, in the office. The big problem I would see is if the employer decided at will they wanted you in the office tomorrow, and you had to change all your plans to accommodate it

Driving for 2 hours 'consistently' is still easier than 60 minutes stop/start in heavy traffic !

You will have the same heavy traffic to deal with, you will just have spent 1.5 hours driving to get to it

08-05-2020 12:02pm

GreeBo wrote: »

It doesnt have to be, but people need to be clear what they mean by rural. Some people are clearly talking about a significant change from the outskirts of Leinster.

There aren't many places in Leinster that would require you to leave at 5am to be in Dublin for 8am. I reckon you'd get from Cork City to most of Dublin at those times preCovid19 tbh.

beauf · 08-05-2020 12:33pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd still rather 60 mins a day than 1 day having a 4 hour commute.
I also reckon your employer wouldnt see it as their problem that your commute was 4 hours and they would still expect you to be in the office for your normal hours...

Thats personal choice. I think you'd be in the minority though.

Stan27 · 09-05-2020 1:07pm

If people could (job depending) work in the office 3 days a week and home for 2 for example, would be great for reducing traffic.

Also some people would want to go to the office still now and again, just to get out if the house.

Technocentral · 11-05-2020 2:27pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137694-remote-working-survey/

"Overall, 83% of respondents say they would like to keep working from home after the restrictions are eased."

Sounds about right, it will surely be the future of work. The environment, peoples mental health and life satisfaction will benefit hugely. Not having to listen to colleagues inane conversations particularly about sport is a big one for me.

uli84 · 11-05-2020 2:33pm

The very last line of your post:

“How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?”

should help you understand why it’ll not ‘become a thing’

Jim Root · 11-05-2020 11:37pm

Very interesting debate this & good contributions made by various posters.

Personally I’m finding it very hard to get any “strategic/thinking/writing” work done at home with the kids on top of me and arm wrestling with the wife about who gets to “work upstairs” for some peace and quiet. I’d happily go back to the office 2/3 days a week.

A big plus for me though is no work travel; I’m well use to day trips to London for various meetings. All this type of stuff has continued on fine over MS Teams. Then again, I’ve firm, established contacts already in my industry from putting in the hours both in the office and at conferences / networking. Those coming up through the ranks might find less opportunities available to “get themselves out there”

Surely a 33/66 split is a happy medium for both employee and employer; id have no issue with those reporting to me currently WFH 2 days a week as long as the work continues to get done by the normal deadlines.

11-05-2020 11:50pm

We've been told by the boss he is ok with us working form home but he just won't get around to organizing it. Very frustrating.

Mrs OBumble · 12-05-2020 7:46am

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

storker · 12-05-2020 8:12am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

Data stored on company servers and not on laptops, with workers connecting via VPN.

Laptops encrypted in case of loss or theft, and auto-locking after a relatively short period of inactivity.

No local printing - if someone needs to mark up a document they print to PDF and mark that up instead.

Not sure about how to manage the possibility of someone looking over the employee's shoulder for a gawk, but I think there are screen attachments available that make it hard to see what's on a screen if not looking at it "head-on".

.

storker · 12-05-2020 8:30am

If work from home becomes a thing for me...

More family time
Dinner at a reasonable hour
Money saved on petrol (& possibly fares depending on how many in-office days)
Better diet
Commute time redirected to study
More productivity due to fewer/less frequent work-based distractions

I'm lucky in this regard, because my kids are in their teens and can keep themselves busy, and I have a dedicated man-cave with desk and office chair, although the chair could use an upgrade.

More generally...

Lowered emissions, reduced pollution, and consequent improvement in public health
Less traffic so those that do need to drive to/for work will be able to do so more quickly
Potentially lower costs due to less office space required
General increase in quality of life; less "living to work"
More disposable income

So forcing people to work from home wouldn't be good, but allowing them to do so where possible would have huge benefits for individuals and society (yes, there really is such a thing) as a whole. It's about time work practices caught up with the technology.

.

beauf · 12-05-2020 9:33am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

Working from home has been going on for years. VPN and encryption has been around for decades. Office 365 and Google drive are 8 years old.

GDPR hasn't stopped any of that. Indeed working through the cloud or remote offices is just exploding even before this crisis.

Biker79 · 12-05-2020 9:45am

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with Office rents. WFH may exert downward pressure but COVID spacing requirements may force them back up. Will there be an equilibrium?

I'd love to see the back of open-plan offices.

uli84 · 12-05-2020 9:53am

I can just say from the experience of being on the other side - customer service roles shouldn’t be based at home, they are half productive compared to when being in the office (again this is just my observation)

Also are those in favour of working from home not bothered that they literally never leave work?
Have you got timesheets and so in place to show what work actually gets done daily? Last but not least - are you not bored being in the same surroundings most of the time?

hots · 12-05-2020 10:22am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

You repeat this so often but ignore that wfh has been the norm to some extent for many companies without an issue.

Companies will take technical measures where possible and for the rest will trust employees, just the same as they trust them to not share information they shouldn't verbally or to take pictures of their screen on their phone.

ELM327 · 12-05-2020 10:27am

I and my team have had work from home for some time before covid.
My manager is in london and his in the US so its irrelevant where we are.

GDPR is nothing more than an excuse trodden by those too lazy to assist people. Working from home on a vpn is the same as being in the office.

krissovo · 12-05-2020 10:31am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

Most companies have been or are rapidly moving to cloud based services. Office 365 & teams for just one example means that my data is on the corporate cloud rather than local storage. If I work on a document at home I open it from my share, work on the local application and its live updating the cloud based copy. Every one of my tools for work is cloud based.

I can access my work files through any device, it does not matter if its company or not as the software creates temporary virtual work environments that completely separate to private environments.

Most major banks, insurance companies and a lot of UK and EU governments are running similar software to address the issue. I know this because I have been working with clients for years in adopting

The level of GDPR understanding in this country and the interpretation of the guidelines is quite shocking.

Biker79 · 12-05-2020 10:38am

Grasp of security and GDPR concepts differ considerably between public and private sector organisations, in my experience.

Dravokivich · 12-05-2020 11:20am

ELM327 wrote: »

I and my team have had work from home for some time before covid.
My manager is in london and his in the US so its irrelevant where we are.

GDPR is nothing more than an excuse trodden by those too lazy to assist people. Working from home on a vpn is the same as being in the office.

It comes down to anything stored locally and accessibility to it. So you use vpn to connect to work. What's on the device when vpn is disconnected and what prevents someone else from accessing that data?

krissovo · 12-05-2020 11:31am

Dravokivich wrote: »

It comes down to anything stored locally and accessibility to it. So you use vpn to connect to work. What's on the device when vpn is disconnected and what prevents someone else from accessing that data?

Multi Factor authentication normally and accepted even upto the highest levels of security clearance.

The ONLY real risk if adopted correctly are screen grabs but again even banks that have employees who can access customer data that can work from have security protocols that can isolate any breach quickly.

ELM327 · 12-05-2020 11:37am

Dravokivich wrote: »

It comes down to anything stored locally and accessibility to it. So you use vpn to connect to work. What's on the device when vpn is disconnected and what prevents someone else from accessing that data?

2/3fa

Also, why would it not be ok now when its been ok for years

Make It Real · 12-05-2020 11:46am

A quick thought on this...

If you can do your job from anywhere, then anyone can do your job from anywhere.

They'd need to have the skills, knowledge, infrastructure etc, which is the challenge right now, of course. But for how long?

We can't avoid change and progress, but I think it is about being aware and ready for it.

"What is the essence of what I do that can't readily be done by someone else, either here or somewhere else?" is one of the big questions, I think.

Dravokivich · 12-05-2020 11:49am

krissovo wrote: »

Multi Factor authentication normally and accepted even upto the highest levels of security clearance.

The ONLY real risk if adopted correctly are screen grabs but again even banks that have employees who can access customer data that can work from have security protocols that can isolate any breach quickly.

ELM327 wrote: »

2/3fa

Also, why would it not be ok now when its been ok for years

You guys were in such a rush to answer, you didn't even read the question.

RickBlaine · 12-05-2020 11:54am

I'd definitely be in favour of continued WFH. I work in IT and for the last 8 years in three different companies, a vast majority of my communication with clients and vendors has been via email, phone or Skype. I'd have brief daily team meetings including the people in the office but these are now easily done through Teams. There are often days where I'd be sitting in the office communicating frequently with clients/vendors but would barely say a word to the people actually in the office.

So working from home has had pretty much no negative effects for my team. We still have all our regular internal meetings via Teams and still communicate normally with clients and vendors. I'm sure this is the same for a lot of other people in the industry.

I think the best approach is a mixture of the old and new. Still have office days for important client meetings and team building but WFH a majority of the time. It would be much cheaper for a company to lease a smaller office or rent a meeting room a few times a month than to lease a whole floor an a city centre building.

I'd happily live further away if I only had to travel to Dublin occasionally for work. Even once a week wouldn't be too bad.

The biggest concern I'd have is making sure my manager knows I'm finished work at 17:30 just as I would be if I was in the office. This isn't a problem with my current manager but I'm sure other managers with less cop on might not see such a clear cut boundary. But if WFH becomes the new normal, I'd expect more people will have a greater understanding of WFH policies and etiquette. Companies should have WFH policies clearly stating that a person is not expected to be available once their working day finished.

12-05-2020 3:43pm

I find brain storming and solutioning is absolutely not the same remotely as would be in the same room.

When feelings start running high and people become opinated, the call descends into chaos

Also, there is a momentum that builds up while in a room that does not translate virtually.

AndrewJRenko · 12-05-2020 3:46pm

Biker79 wrote: »

Grasp of security and GDPR concepts differ considerably between public and private sector organisations, in my experience.

Grasp of security and GDPR concepts differ considerably between public and private sector organisations, in my experience.

krissovo · 12-05-2020 3:47pm

salonfire wrote: »

I find brain storming and solutioning is absolutely not the same remotely as would be in the same room.

When feelings start running high and people become opinated, the call descends into chaos

Also, there is a momentum that builds up while in a room that does not translate virtually.

Virtual whiteboards like realtime boards and sticky pads with voting works really well for a collaborative session. Someone does need to be a moderator though.

Stheno · 12-05-2020 3:56pm

uli84 wrote: »

Also are those in favour of working from home not bothered that they literally never leave work?
Have you got timesheets and so in place to show what work actually gets done daily? Last but not least - are you not bored being in the same surroundings most of the time?

I leave work at my normal time, the door to the roo. I work in is shut and I'm done when I wfh

Dont use timeshets

Dont get bored being in the same place, oh break up my day with a walk, spend a bit of time in the garden etc

kippy · 12-05-2020 5:31pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How do you see GDPR requirements being met in a WFH world?

Many companies have client data in private homes at the moment, against all policies. That cannot continue long term though.

With the right systems and training it's not an issue.

kippy · 12-05-2020 5:36pm

Make It Real wrote: »

A quick thought on this...

If you can do your job from anywhere, then anyone can do your job from anywhere.

They'd need to have the skills, knowledge, infrastructure etc, which is the challenge right now, of course. But for how long?

We can't avoid change and progress, but I think it is about being aware and ready for it.

"What is the essence of what I do that can't readily be done by someone else, either here or somewhere else?" is one of the big questions, I think.

This has always been the case though. WFH isn't a new concept. It has been round years. Anyone in multiple sectors has been under the threat of what you speak about for years.
Granted some organisations have been very resistant to it and some probably will remain so.

You should never fool yourself into thinking you are unique and will be missed from s business. The only way to do that is to continue to bring value in whatever way you can and be someone who accepts and adapts to change.

Mrs OBumble · 12-05-2020 6:17pm

kippy wrote: »

With the right systems and training it's not an issue.

Ya, so how do I stop my housemate hearing the conversation I'm having with a customer?

A separate, lockable, soundproof office isn't available in many homes.

And whatevef about screen grabs, how you I stop people from taking photos of info on a screen?

beauf · 12-05-2020 7:10pm

Most people can take photos at work if they really wanted.

kippy · 12-05-2020 7:16pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, so how do I stop my housemate hearing the conversation I'm having with a customer?

A separate, lockable, soundproof office isn't available in many homes.

And whatevef about screen grabs, how you I stop people from taking photos of info on a screen?

You use a microphone and headphones.....ideally in a relatively private room.
You lock the screen....

12-05-2020 7:17pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, so how do I stop my housemate hearing the conversation I'm having with a customer?

A separate, lockable, soundproof office isn't available in many homes.

And whatevef about screen grabs, how you I stop people from taking photos of info on a screen?

What housemate would have any interest?

And, yes, I used headphones so it doesn't annoy my wife

beauf · 12-05-2020 7:25pm

Most people can take photos at work if they really wanted.

Technocentral · 12-05-2020 7:35pm

beauf wrote: »

Most people can take photos at work if they really wanted.

Totally, I think the absolute opposition to wfh is by types who love to order and boss people around in person, its how they get their kicks, they are coming up with all these obstacles.

krissovo · 12-05-2020 7:55pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, so how do I stop my housemate hearing the conversation I'm having with a customer?

A separate, lockable, soundproof office isn't available in many homes.

And whatevef about screen grabs, how you I stop people from taking photos of info on a screen?

Same issues that are in a standard office, in fact I consider a home office more secure than a standard office.

KyussB · 12-05-2020 8:59pm

If everyone is allowed work from home and live wherever they want, then how are they going to spur on massive property bubbles, by forcing everyone to live in overcrowded cities without enough accommodation, by placing all of the major businesses and most lucrative jobs there?

You won't get to work from home after this.

Snotty · 12-05-2020 9:19pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, so how do I stop my housemate hearing the conversation I'm having with a customer?

A separate, lockable, soundproof office isn't available in many homes.

And whatevef about screen grabs, how you I stop people from taking photos of info on a screen?

You're clutching at straws for your argument now.

But after this is over and WFT becomes an option rather than a need, the employee will have to have a suitable home for WFT, if you cannot provide a quiet room to work in, then maybe your housing situation is not suitable for WFT, it's certainly a requirement for remote working for my employer, it's states requirements like broadband and office setup at home, employees would have access to ppi and remote working is common.

Mrs OBumble · 12-05-2020 9:33pm

beauf wrote: »

Most people can take photos at work if they really wanted.

One company I'm working for at the moment has CCTV on the office floor, just to prevent accusations of stuff like that. Employees know and are happy, because it protects them from false claims. It wouldn't be a reasonable thing to have in employee homes, though.

12-05-2020 10:02pm

KyussB wrote: »

If everyone is allowed work from home and live wherever they want, then how are they going to spur on massive property bubbles, by forcing everyone to live in overcrowded cities without enough accommodation, by placing all of the major businesses and most lucrative jobs there?

You won't get to work from home after this.

This is so uninformed, it must be trolling.

Major businesses chose to locate in the cities, they are not placed there.

mvl · 12-05-2020 10:31pm

I hope wfh would be available full time for me after this (and I am setting up the third office space in my house to make sure I get it).
I don't miss the noise/social aspect from the office at all, and for the type of work I do, I think my wfh is beneficial for the business and for my health.
but if everybody could work from anywhere within Europe in my industry - did wonder what might happen with remote workers salaries - would they go up or down.

kippy · 12-05-2020 10:43pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One company I'm working for at the moment has CCTV on the office floor, just to prevent accusations of stuff like that. Employees know and are happy, because it protects them from false claims. It wouldn't be a reasonable thing to have in employee homes, though.

If the employees and the employer aren't prepared to adapt and/or set up to make WFH a reality it won't happen.

kippy · 12-05-2020 10:44pm

mvl wrote: »

I hope wfh would be available full time for me after this (and I am setting up the third office space in my house to make sure I get it).
I don't miss the noise/social aspect from the office at all, and for the type of work I do, I think my wfh is beneficial for the business and for my health.
but if everybody could work from anywhere within Europe in my industry - did wonder what might happen with remote workers salaries - would they go up or down.

Depends on the field you are in and your perceived value to the organisation.

Snow Garden · 12-05-2020 10:53pm

I saw some metrics today suggesting my company have increased productivity since the teams started working from home. I had a feeling that was the case but the data confirms it. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues as restrictions are lifted. We don't expect to be back in the office until September at the earliest. Some people have already said they will not return until a vaccine is available.

bilbot79 · 12-05-2020 11:01pm

mvl wrote: »

I hope wfh would be available full time for me after this (and I am setting up the third office space in my house to make sure I get it).
I don't miss the noise/social aspect from the office at all, and for the type of work I do, I think my wfh is beneficial for the business and for my health.
but if everybody could work from anywhere within Europe in my industry - did wonder what might happen with remote workers salaries - would they go up or down.

I'm sure it would be subject to market forces as always. People would probably be required to be tax resident in Ireland. So only abroad for less than half the year

If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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